The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

[elliott20]

I've been in and out all of last week thanks to my father in law's health condition. But I think he's going to be okay now, so I'm back, sort of.

[Cute_Riolu]

Could we have a short description of the disciplines out beside them? That'd really help me out, and probably others too.

[DracoDei]

Something along those lines can be found on the "Discipline Basics" page of the spreadsheet HERE. It is also the first spreadsheet linked in Elliot20's signature.

For convenience, here is a snap-shot of the current "Discipline Name" and "Concept" columns.

Spoiler

Show

{table="head"]Name|Concept
Mental Grip |Psionics
Sleeping Goddess |Strike at Mind, not Body. Psionics
Quicksilver Aegis |Law/Mechanus
Steel Mountain |Active Shield Use
Mystic Cobra|Pole-arms
Frozen Zephyr / Acidic Fog / Shocking Sky|alternate desert wind
Falling Anvil |Slapstick Comedy
Way of the Gear |Gears of War
Golden Saint |Non-Lethal, anti-Evil
Masked Moon|shapeshifting
Dancing Leaf |Counters and Defense
Knowing Heart |Nonlethal Techniques
Viper Fang |poison and precision
Blood Sage |precision damage and healing
Dread Crown |Mixed Fiends
black heron |demonic possession, maximized damage
Rending Scream |sonic damage and mental effects
Infinite Torment|Abyss
Ninefold Damnation |Nine Hells
Army of One |fight against vastly greater numbers
Leaping Gale |speed and air
Narrow Bridge |Necromancy, balance between life and death
Far Realm |Madness, distortion of time and space
Gentle Breeze |speed, air
Broken Blade |Beat other martial adepts
Placid Lake|slow movement, cold, debuffs
Scarlet Rose |Graceful Two-Weapon Fighting
Scarlet Bravura |Selfless Leadership
The Discipline of the Lost Lyrics |Bardic
Coin's Edge |Luck
Twin Spirit |Mounted Combat
Silver Pegasus |mounted
Oncoming Storm |blinding speed and masterful misdirection
Black Lotus |stealth, poison, trickery
Solaris Arcanum|Blend of sword and spells.
Witch Razor|Blend of warlock techniques and swordplay
Untamed Essence|Enhance weapon with Ki, Defend against magic, travel magically
Black Rain |Firearms
Silver Crane |Good
Falling Star |Bows
True Arrow |Bows, Crossbows, Javelins
Ocean Soul |
Falling Wave |Aquatic Combat
Falling Wave |Aquatic Combat
Ocean Tempest|Move like a Wave
Holy Word Discipline |
Fool's Grip |Improvised Weapons
Kaleidoscopic Dream |Limbo/Chaos
Chthonic Serpent |Flexing Weapons, Constriction[/table]

Does that work, or were you looking for something with slightly more detail? There are also columns for the associated class skill and weapons.

[Cute_Riolu]

That works! Thank ya much!

[molten_dragon]

In the thread I created to get feedback on my ToB homebrew material, DracoDei suggested I post a link to it here for inclusion into the list.

I created a new base class similar to the ranger, as well as two new schools of maneuvers dedicated to ranged combat.

You can find the material here.

None of it has been playtested yet (though I've got a player starting one very soon) and I'm still making changes based on suggestions people are offering up. Feel free to comment on what I've created. You should also feel free to take it and do whatever you want with it. I'm fine if you want to change things for your own use or take certain maneuvers out for use in other sets you're coming up with, whatever you want to do.

Enjoy.

[DracoDei]

I have added Far Realms and Falling Anvil* to the Soul Disciple's list of accessible disciplines on the spreadsheet, since both seem good choices for a Chaotic Neutral Soul Disciple.

*As always, the usual restrictions of Falling Anvil to light-hearted campaigns applies.


Also put Iron Rain, Rising Phoenix (Phoenix Feather?), and Falcon's Eye disciplines (from the "Refactoring ToB Archery" sub-project) into SOME but NOT ALL of the places they need to go in the spreadsheets.

[dspeyer]

I've tried to keep the links in my sig current as lists of what we have with descriptions.

Kaleidoscopic Dream is a CN discipline. The Far Realm is generally regarded as orthogonal to conventional alignment.

And yes, we really need to name the mystic archery discipline.

[DracoDei]

I thought a "pick ONE of the following from a list based on your alignment" might be good. I was aware of K. Dream's role, but was proposing options.

[~Corvus~]

I don't mean to de-rail any discussions, but...I've been working with Shyftir to complete Mystic Cobra. Comments / suggestions would be appreciated

[DracoDei]

I don't mean to de-rail any discussions, but...I've been working with Shyftir to complete Mystic Cobra. Comments / suggestions would be appreciated

This is just as relevant to the purpose of this thread as anything else is.

[DaTedinator]

I'm going ahead and declaring Mental Grip complete. Just, in case you guys care.

[dspeyer]

I finally got back around to the archery stuff. I've integrated the last round of comments and updated the disciplines list.

I'm not sure what to tackle next. I'm feeling inclined to leave poison alone -- they're kind of different and they don't mix well. Maybe mounted? Reshuffle into charging and non-charging....

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. Do we have a master list of what still needs to be done?

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... I'm currently working on a discipline based on the fight scenes in FFVII; Advent Children that I'd like to submit after I'm done with it.



Any advice on making my first martial discipline and associated feats?

[dspeyer]

Ok. Do we have a master list of what still needs to be done?

Master? Not really. Here's my list:

• Go over the base classes like we did the PrCs
• Address the remaining duplications: poison, mounted, underwater.
• Go back to the PrCs and reconsider them with their new disciplines. Do they work? Do they still feel right? Do their original authors approve of this power creep? Do we care?
• Create tactical feats and legacy weapons for the new disciplines, or explain why we're not going to.
• Proofread
• Playtest
• Bring everything into a unified format. My preference would be to gather everything into JSON, then offer a web-based SRD and a PDF (python->TeX(?)) based on a single canonical source. That will allow us to tweak the formatting centrally. The problem is that the current versions are so variably formatted that it's not clear anything less than hand-copy-pasting can extract the data.
• Write the flavor sections.
• Artwork

[JKTrickster]

I'm really interested in helping out this project! Exactly what is there left to do?

Hm... I'm currently working on a discipline based on the fight scenes in FFVII; Advent Children that I'd like to submit after I'm done with it.



Any advice on making my first martial discipline and associated feats?

Well we'll have to see it first. Why don't you try and finish the project and post it on the boards? When we have something to look at our advice will be much more solid.

[dspeyer]

Any advice on making my first martial discipline and associated feats?

I won't claim it's good advice, but...

• Skim the list of existing disciplines, make sure yours isn't too similar.
• Read some of them for inspiration
• Follow the ToB's pattern of stances, strikes, etc.
• Try to have a clear idea of what a character is doing when initiating each maneuver.
• Think about how to abuse or counter the discipline, and counter-act that.
• Keep the overall power strictly greater than setting sun and strictly less than devoted spirit.

Good luck!

[The-Mage-King]

I won't claim it's good advice, but...

• Skim the list of existing disciplines, make sure yours isn't too similar.
• Read some of them for inspiration
• Follow the ToB's pattern of stances, strikes, etc.
• Try to have a clear idea of what a character is doing when initiating each maneuver.
• Think about how to abuse or counter the discipline, and counter-act that.
• Keep the overall power strictly greater than setting sun and strictly less than devoted spirit.

Good luck!

Right. I'll continue. "Hero's Edge" should be done and posted in its own thread soon enough...

[Elfin]

If I could, I'd love to help with the flavor sections; is there still room for me?
And if so, what is there left to work on, flavor-wise?

[dspeyer]

And if so, what is there left to work on, flavor-wise?

All of it.

If you read the early parts of this thread, there's a bunch of fragments of the history of various disciplines. That could be gathered into a coherent whole. There ought to be some discussion of how the lesser-known disciplines are regarded by different parts of society, and how various groups interact with the sublime way altogether.

While we're on the subject, some in-universe quotes that have been hanging around my mind:

Some whisper of a Secret Tenth Path, but I think such rumors are no more than bard's tales. Pay them no attention!
-- Harran Turiyeshar, swordsage

Tenth path? I have seen twelve, and know of six more from reputable sources. You would do well to heed my tales, for they are true.
-- Joclez Goded, bard

My claws rend armor and my breath is the terror of armies. What need have I of this so-called 'sublime way'?
-- Huaxinious, adult red dragon

There is none so good they could not be better.
-- Sharlineon, juvenile silver dragon swordsage, who slew Huaxinious and took his horde

[Elfin]

So, judging by what Harran Turiyeshor says in the Tome of Battle, lesser disciplines seem to be frowned upon by "Resharian" martial adepts - perhaps they regard these as unworthy, more like cults who pretend to follow the Sublime Way?

I'll take a look through all of the lesser disciplines, and try to get started on weaving a coherent whole.

Edit:
I've organized most of the new disciplines into time periods, utilizing as much of the included fluff as possible - does this look ok?

Ancient Times
Levistus and Graz'zt father Dread Crown
The Reth Dekala create Solaris Arcanum
Gwynharwyf and an eladrin create the Golden Saint discipline

Long ago
Garl Glittergold creates Falling Anvil, a form of madness which some adepts develop
Army of One is anonymously created
Falling Star is practiced by a select few archers
Seafaring adepts create Ocean Soul
Uther Doul creates Coin's Edge
Docens XII invents Quicksilver Aegis
Sleeping Goddess is created
Truespeakers form the Holy Word discipline

The Age of Reshar
Alikarin ahn Tollerria creates Cthonic Serpent
Reshar rejects Dancing Leaf
Commander Gurran abandons the Temple of Nine Swords and creates Scarlet Bravura
A coven of hexblades, witches, and warlocks create the Witch Razor discipline
The remaining seven Masters collaborate in an attempt to form the Broken Blade discipline

After the Fall
Bladeless adepts invent the Fool's Grip discipline
Inspired by Reshar, a number of assassins adopt the way of the Black Lotus
The Oncoming Storm discipline is created

[Iferus]

Looks good.

[DracoDei]

So, judging by what Harran Turiyeshor says in the Tome of Battle, lesser disciplines seem to be frowned upon by "Resharian" martial adepts - perhaps they regard these as unworthy, more like cults who pretend to follow the Sublime Way?

I'll take a look through all of the lesser disciplines, and try to get started on weaving a coherent whole.

Edit:
I've organized most of the new disciplines into time periods, utilizing as much of the included fluff as possible - does this look ok?

Ancient Times
Levistus and Graz'zt father Dread Crown
The Reth Dekala create Solaris Arcanum
Gwynharwyf and an eladrin create the Golden Saint discipline

Long ago
Army of One is anonymously created
Falling Star is practiced by a select few archers
Seafaring adepts create Ocean Soul
Uther Doul creates Coin's Edge
Docens XII invents Quicksilver Aegis
Sleeping Goddess is created
Truespeakers form the Holy Word discipline

The Age of Reshar
Alikarin ahn Tollerria creates Cthonic Serpent
Reshar rejects Dancing Leaf
Commander Gurran abandons the Temple of Nine Swords and creates Scarlet Bravura
A coven of hexblades, witches, and warlocks create the Witch Razor discipline
The remaining seven Masters collaborate in an attempt to form the Broken Blade discipline

After the Fall
Bladeless adepts invent the Fool's Grip discipline
Inspired by Reshar, a number of assassins adopt the way of the Black Lotus
The Oncoming Storm discipline is created

One of the ones you haven't gotten around to yet is mine (Falling Anvil), it goes in Anchient Times, or maybe Long Ago. It is a pecular form of productive madness that Martial Adepts are subject to, and would probably have appeared as soon as there were enough Martial Adepts for at least one of them to have sucombed to it. Then again, maybe Garl Glittergold and/or Olidammara created it at a later time and only after that did people start to spontaniously develop it.

[Eldan]

In the ToBII thread, it has been suggested to "martialize" the other core classes. If we assume that the Warblade is equivalent to a Fighter, the Crusader to a Paladin and the Swordsage to a monk, would people be interested in martial rangers, rogues, barbarians and maybe bards? Perhaps a few non-core classes, like the Hexblade or Scout could get the martial treatment as well. That's a project I could start on. (I know that there's already martial variants of most of these classes around, but I think with all the stuff we have here, we could rewrite them rather extensively).

[Frog Dragon]

Sublime Archer, coming up.

[Eldan]

To expand on my earlier idea, the Sublime Ranger would have a selection of disciplines: either archery or TWF disciplines, and then his choice of disciplines by favoured climate zone: desert wind for deserts, stone dragon for mountains, ocean tempest for open water, and so on. Favoured enemy would then apply to creatures of those areas. Does that sound like a feasible idea?

[Frog Dragon]

Alternatively, you could just make a twf style sublime ranger, considering that I'm almost done with my Scout/Archer Ranger/ToB hybrid.
Edit: Here it is.

[DracoDei]

In the ToBII thread, it has been suggested to "martialize" the other core classes. If we assume that the Warblade is equivalent to a Fighter, the Crusader to a Paladin and the Swordsage to a monk, would people be interested in martial rangers, rogues, barbarians and maybe bards? Perhaps a few non-core classes, like the Hexblade or Scout could get the martial treatment as well. That's a project I could start on. (I know that there's already martial variants of most of these classes around, but I think with all the stuff we have here, we could rewrite them rather extensively).

Personally this does not appeal for some reason.

[Elfin]

Hm...in the ToBII thread, the replacements are a "Hunter" for the Ranger, a "Gladiator" for the Barbarian, a "Sneak" for the Rogue, and a couple more for bards and wizards; however, personally I'm rather partial to the first three ideas.
Eldan, I think that's an excellent idea, and would definitely support it.


I'll edit in Falling Anvil.

[JoshuaZ]

Personally this does not appeal for some reason.

Is the issue one of flavor? I think that may be one. It seems like the way Age of Warriors is being set up, the flavor of ToB as a special set of techniques (and the history of the Temple of Nine Swords) is being strongly integrated. While it might be nice to have ToB versions of every melee class, it doesn't quite fit flavorwise with this particular project.