Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Owrtho]

Well, I'd wanted it to have some form of benefit for spending feat rather than just getting the LA+0 template for being an afflicted/blessed xenotheurgist, and did didn't think the ability to try and reduce the level of your murmur one per day (at the risk of increasing it) would be enough. Then again, maybe if I allow it to be used on murmurs from other sources it would be, though then people may be tempted to take Mental Cacophony so as to avoid the form point loss (though I suppose there may be some weighing of options if a 4 form points is worth a -1 to will). Maybe if I changed it so as to grant the ability to spend only half the normal cost for the ability (rounded up), to automatically fail (if you want to get to a higher level), though still using up you use for the 24 hours. Thoughts?

Owrtho

[Matar]

Eh well. I think a nice addition would be to allow you to cast your Incursions inside your stomach. It's simple, very useful, and adds a nice bit of "umph" to it. It would even help simulate a higher level of control because of the fact that you aren't causing chaos wherever you go.

It also helps you fit in campaigns where Incursions are likely to get you killed or disrupt alot of stuff.

What do you think?

[babus]

As unquestionably awesome as that would be, don't Incursions usually work by perverting some element of the natural world, something the inside of an Ozodrin's stomach really isn't? Not that a few might not work fine, such as those affecting people's minds, but a lot would be explicitly useless, which would limit the effectiveness of the idea.

[Matar]

Nah, you're right. Quite a few Incursions would not do much if inside you. But it's not really meant to be a powerful addition, more of a neat little thing that helps.

The most powerful bonus is the fact that you can now play a Xeno where Incursions would ruin the setting and get you killed. Which is a nice bonus, to say the least.

[babus]

Yeah, there are some that'd even get you smoted, like that one that keeps the souls of the dead from passing on to their respective afterlives. 5000 miles is more than enough to cover a large battlefield, and if 10,000 people suddenly don't show up where they're supposed to be...

But to be fair, you could have Incursions have slightly modified effects when applied to the inside of your stomach. Either having a more explicit effect because there's less to get in the way of the incursion, or having it create features associated with the Incursion, such as the "terrain" of your stomach emulating a forest, or clouds appearing in the "sky".

Edit: For the purposes of balance, this would all be considered part of you, and thus couldn't leave your pocket realm. Having pretending flesh, or something along those lines available might be an appropriate prereq.

[Owrtho]

I may go with that. But due to the incursions being intended as one of the main ways you can identify a xenothurgist, I think I'll make it so they still manage to affect the area outside the ozodrin, but only in a radius of 5 feet per the level the associated murmur is at (and always counting as the periphery). I'll change the feat description at some point today. Also, no comments on the improved conservative form?

Side note that may interest some. There is a change somewhere on the first page of the Menacing Manor thread. First person to find it gets an unspecified number of an unspecified type of points.

Owrtho

[babus]

I may go with that. But due to the incursions being intended as one of the main ways you can identify a xenothurgist, I think I'll make it so they still manage to affect the area outside the ozodrin, but only in a radius of 5 feet per the level the associated murmur is at (and always counting as the periphery). I'll change the feat description at some point today. Also, no comments on the improved conservative form?

Well, it is improved. It's slightly less useful to those who gained some of those features via Aberrant Feats, as they already have the ability to trade them for their full cost, but the Limbs are normally 4 points a pop, and that alone is 16 form points saved if you tend to focus on such things. And yes, it does make things a bit more universal. I never thought one point per limb pulled in was worth it, despite liking the idea, but this gives it a bit more use.

In regards to the bleeding out of Incursions for a limited area around you, that seems right. Noticeable by people who know what they're looking for, but not over the top crazy. Might even be useful for using incursions in a more limited area than you'd normally be allowed, if you so desire.

[Necroticplague]

Side note that may interest some. There is a change somewhere on the first page of the Menacing Manor thread. First person to find it gets an unspecified number of an unspecified type of points.

Owrtho

You sandwiched in three PRCs by other people in between Azure Beast and Machine, plus added Ever Changing, crammed into the same post with "Corpse of a Manor" sidebar.

[Owrtho]

Well, it is improved. It's slightly less useful to those who gained some of those features via Aberrant Feats, as they already have the ability to trade them for their full cost, but the Limbs are normally 4 points a pop, and that alone is 16 form points saved if you tend to focus on such things. And yes, it does make things a bit more universal. I never thought one point per limb pulled in was worth it, despite liking the idea, but this gives it a bit more use.

Actually, only the deepspawn and darkspawn feats let you trade in the body parts they give you for full form point value. This however means you can actually augment your wings and fins from the other two. I also felt 1 point per limb wasn't worth it though unless you played something like a centipede.

In regards to the bleeding out of Incursions for a limited area around you, that seems right. Noticeable by people who know what they're looking for, but not over the top crazy. Might even be useful for using incursions in a more limited area than you'd normally be allowed, if you so desire.

Well, then, I think I'll add the change and add it along with the few other feats to the first page. Though I'll add in a form point cost to using the incursion in your stomach (after all, there should be some form of penalty to doing so), and up the range to 10 feet per level, so it's enough to cause some trouble in towns and cities, without the massive damage that normally unleashing it would cause.

You sandwiched in three PRCs by other people in between Azure Beast and Machine, plus added Ever Changing, crammed into the same post with "Corpse of a Manor" sidebar.

Actually those prc's have been there for a bit. But yes the ever changing was added. Feedback in the appropriate thread would be appreciated. As promised, congratulation you get ███ ███████ points.

Edit: Updated the first page.

Owrtho

[babus]

Speaking of the PrCs, as I'm unsure we can rez threads that haven't been posted in for such a long time, even if the parent thread is active, I was wondering on whether or not the Plot's size went under the ground for the appropriate amount of feet as well, or just along the surface.

It's the difference between being able to someday magically levitate the whole thing while you, the living fortress sit on top, using your sympathy to the underside to open mouths where your army of beam weapon firing constructs shoot through before you close the mouths and open them somewhere else in order to prevent your enemies from counterattacking and not.

Also, I'm unclear on how the Esoteric Stomach PrC affects form points cost. Refined Shape says that "When adding augments you your primary stomach, the total cost of all augments applied to it is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1.", but does that mean that buying the large stomach Augment 80 times would cost 159 form points, as the total cost is 160?

[Owrtho]

Speaking of the PrCs, as I'm unsure we can rez threads that haven't been posted in for such a long time, even if the parent thread is active, I was wondering on whether or not the Plot's size went under the ground for the appropriate amount of feet as well, or just along the surface.

Normally threads can't be rezed without moderator permission. However, in the case of homebrew threads, there is an exception to that rule for the op, so they can do things like update older projects and post that they did so. Also if you look, the last post in the thread was only a few days ago when I rezed it after adding a few more esoteric prcs.

It's the difference between being able to someday magically levitate the whole thing while you, the living fortress sit on top, using your sympathy to the underside to open mouths where your army of beam weapon firing constructs shoot through before you close the mouths and open them somewhere else in order to prevent your enemies from counterattacking and not.

You can make it extend under the ground, though doing so reduces the max height above the ground. In other words you can 'sink' the area of your plot some if you want to make it go under ground.

Also, I'm unclear on how the Esoteric Stomach PrC affects form points cost. Refined Shape says that "When adding augments you your primary stomach, the total cost of all augments applied to it is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1.", but does that mean that buying the large stomach Augment 80 times would cost 159 form points, as the total cost is 160?

Yes, that is correct. This equates to being about the same as most other esoteric PRCs. The difference is that in most cases you can look at it as reducing the cost of the feature by 1, then adding augments onto that (which is the case with normal stomachs). However, in the case of the primary stomach, it is free. So rather than reducing its cost of 0 by 1 to a minimum of 1, it gives you 1 free point of augments for it (on top of reducing the cost of all other stomach features you add by 1). If you add no augments to your primary stomach, you can ignore that part.

Now, if you have any more to say on the matter, get ye to the proper thread.

Owrtho

[babus]

Ah, that all makes sense, then. And sorry about that, I hadn't realized you bumped it since I last checked.

[Owrtho]

Thought I'd mention as a side note for anyone who hasn't realized, the optional abilities are now on the first page in the same post as feats. Most of the feats from these last few pages have also been added.

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

Question, Owrtho: have you done anything to nerf the raw damage potential of this class, which often has to be expressed in scientific notation at higher levels? I, ah, I kinda did that on accident with an Ozodrin build the other week....

[Owrtho]

Question, Owrtho: have you done anything to nerf the raw damage potential of this class, which often has to be expressed in scientific notation at higher levels? I, ah, I kinda did that on accident with an Ozodrin build the other week....

If you are talking about the ability to just make a single very large feature, then yes. A while back I made it so that until level 21, damage increases due to feature size cap at colossal. At level 21 and every odd level thereafter, this increases by 1 size.

If you speak of something else, please specify.

Owrtho

[babus]

As a level 3 Ozodrin, I'm considering picking up a level of Monk in order to grab that extra Aberrant feat that comes from having improved grapple when you hit level four, so I had some questions about that.

Does Flurry of Blows bypass the Attack Number limitation, so long as I'm using limbs, and does the version of Improved Grapple you pick up from Bizarre Grappler count as an Aberrant feat for the purposes of calculating Aberrant synergy bonuses (and if so, does it still count as one when I got it from my Monk level)?

[Owrtho]

Fury of blows does not need to bypass the natural attack limit, as it affects unarmed attacks (and a few armed ones), rather than natural attacks. That noted, you can mix natural attacks with unarmed/manufactured attacks, as per the normal rules for such things. I will not though that limbs do not grant unarmed attacks (though your normal arms still do.

As for the feat counting as aberrant, only if you take otherworldly skill as well. I will point out though that the bonus aberrant feat is also gained if you were to later take something that gave you improved grapple. So you could decide to wait till after level 4 to take the monk level and end up with a bonus aberrant feat from it.

Owrtho

[Owrtho]

Minor edit to the Aberrant Monstrosity feat, allowing it to be taken more than once so you may count as more than one extra type for feats & PRCs.

As a side note, I thought I'd see what peoples opinions would be on changing the attack limit to not count natural attacks from other sources (such as ones race or those granted by other classes). Does this seem like something that would be fine for balance?

Owrtho

[Necroticplague]

Considering that gaining a lot of natural attacks generally requires sacrificing levels in the form of being an LA/RHD race or taking levels in a class (like totemist), it should be ok to not have those count against you.

[Owrtho]

Well, that was my thinking. From what I recall it was originally the case for the class, though got changed in an edit somewhere.

As no one else has replied, and the current reply makes sense, I think I'll edit the first post.

Also, an idea for a feat.
Soothing Energies (Aberrant)
You may use positive energy to heal others.
Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Strange Energies
Benefit: When you form a feature with an augment that allows it to do positive energy damage, you may choose to make it heal rather than deal damage. This does not prevent any damage the attack carrying the positive energy would deal. This choice once made is permanent until the feature is reformed. You may also choose to make a touch attack with such features as a standard action to heal a target and avoid your normal damage for attacking with it.
Normal: Your positive energy is always damaging.

Owrtho

[Owrtho]

Odd. For some reason my post didn't bump the thread...
So this post isn't completely without information, I edited the first post as I said I would above, and also made a minor edit to conservative form noting how augmenting your natural attacks form other sources impacts the count of your feature granted natural attacks (they count as half of one).

Owrtho

[babus]

I still think it's weird that positive energy would harm a living creature, unless we're talking the person go asplodey in the positive energy plane, but I assume Sindri knew what they were talking about, even if I'm curious as to the precedent for hurting with what we normally associate with healing outside of its effect on undead. Nonetheless, the ability to heal is a potent one, so I suppose it's fitting for it to cost two feats.

Mind, I'm suddenly thinking back to the injection ability from the Spike feature and picturing using it as a syringe to inject good things as well as bad, which is of course followed by me picturing my Ozodrin in a nurse outfit. Link related.

Perhaps soothing energies might allow the production of curatives as well as venoms? By which I mean antidotes and the like.

On a side note, in the Absent Limb description, you left in a line about features being added to your Manifest Form DC, which I believe you changed to just being DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier?

[Owrtho]

Well, I can't think of anything off hand, but I know there are a few things that cause damage with positive energy.

Also, good catch on the absent limb. It is fixed now.

Owrtho

[babus]

Well, Bolt of Glory can deal damage to Neutral and Evil Outsiders, and Disrupt Undead deals damage to the unliving without any healing effect, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Also, I edited my above post before I realized you had already responded. Perhaps we could allow Soothing Energies to modify the Fillable Spike feature to include curatives as well?

[TechnOkami]

A good way (imo) to describe how positive energy can become destructive without something being oppositely aligned is, in essence, what happens when you travel to the positive energy plane: you explode. So, it's the rapid concentration of high amounts of energy to a small location to create an explosion. So, in terms of Owrtho's new ability: the stomach can handle said energy now and use it for healing purposes.

[Owrtho]

Also, I edited my above post before I realized you had already responded. Perhaps we could allow Soothing Energies to modify the Fillable Spike feature to include curatives as well?

Would be interesting. Any thoughts on what the best method for wording that might be? I'd expect it would involve something like allowing them to put potions and antidotes in their hollow spikes as well as poisons and diseases. Honestly given they would have to actually have the potions already, that could likely be a feat on its own only requiring the hollow spike augment. Then there could be a special allowing something like soothing energies and that augment to give them a cure wounds 'venom', that would start at light, and upgrades would increase it to higher functionality (though not quite sure the ratio of them).

Owrtho

[babus]

@TechnOkami
Ah, see, I knew about people on the positive energy plane blowing up, but I hadn't considered the idea that high concentrations in smaller areas might duplicate the effect in miniature, such as localizing it to a person's arm and overcharging that.

@Owrtho

Well, the word for adding the ability of an Ozodrin to generate Cure Wounds potions may be "eep", even if it can only inject them, but at the same time, this is the Ozodrin we're talking about. It does everything, except in the most disturbing way, and not quite as well. Injecting your teammates with Healing Juice would definitely qualify, though points if it's some sort of Confidence booster.

I am not opposed to having another feat for the storage of healing potions or disease cures, as specialization of some degree, even for generalists is something I've always found to add personality to any build, and if this Ozodrin wants to have healy on top of smashy, it's fair that they take a few extra feats. I will say that, instead of "Cure" in lieu of the venom, they should get some sort of regenerative goop. Slow heal instead of bursts. Perhaps call the feat to allow this Unnatural Life, maybe even make it a prereq for the positive energy feat, unless you combine the functions, which is fine too.

There are two ways to go with the progression, as well. If you think Ozodrins should be capable of healing for real and not pseudo, then make a feat that lets you store curative potions in the chamber, and a second feat which would add the progression you were talking about, maybe including up to and including that one spell that can wake you up when you haven't been below -10 for more than a minute or so. Even then, it'd be wise to set it up as slower regeneration instead of instantaneous effects, though.

If you think that's too powerful, then a feat to allow potion storing with Fillable Spike would work, though perhaps if it's by itself you could just add it as an optional augmentation, instead of something to buy.

Edit: You could also just mirror the effects of the venom and give it healing based on its damage with an Aberrant Bonus to the relevant attribute that lasts for a number of rounds equal to half your class level rounded down? That, and put some sort of limiter on the maximum buff, such as further increasing the cost of what it was for the damage booster?

EditEdit: Actually, forget the healing completely, as that's covered by the positive energy feat. If we can store positive effect potions for later injection with the fillable spike augment, through a feat or just by default, then it would be enough to produce substances which provided Aberrant Bonuses to allies when you injected them with it, again, by means of a feat, or by default, whichever you think fits. Attribute Boosting instead of Attribute Draining, which a max for the boost, or hell, if you wanted to make it hilarious, require them to make an actual damaging attack to inject their allies with the boosts. It'd be an interesting balancer.

Oh hey, wall of text.

[Owrtho]

I am not opposed to having another feat for the storage of healing potions or disease cures, as specialization of some degree, even for generalists is something I've always found to add personality to any build, and if this Ozodrin wants to have healy on top of smashy, it's fair that they take a few extra feats. I will say that, instead of "Cure" in lieu of the venom, they should get some sort of regenerative goop. Slow heal instead of bursts. Perhaps call the feat to allow this Unnatural Life, maybe even make it a prereq for the positive energy feat, unless you combine the functions, which is fine too.

That could work. Possibly give a minor amount of fast healing for a few rounds. If I decide to go with false healing, I could make it grant temporary hit points rather than actually healing damage, thus while it might save someone from death, they'd still need to actually be healed before it wore off.

There are two ways to go with the progression, as well. If you think Ozodrins should be capable of healing for real and not pseudo, then make a feat that lets you store curative potions in the chamber, and a second feat which would add the progression you were talking about, maybe including up to and including that one spell that can wake you up when you haven't been below -10 for more than a minute or so. Even then, it'd be wise to set it up as slower regeneration instead of instantaneous effects, though.

I may actually add 2 feats here, the first letting them store beneficial potions, the second granting some augments that allow the generation of some beneficial potions. If I go with the temporary healing above, I'll likely add a synergy effect with soothing energies that allows them to heal actual hit points instead.

Edit: You could also just mirror the effects of the venom and give it healing based on its damage with an Aberrant Bonus to the relevant attribute that lasts for a number of rounds equal to half your class level rounded down? That, and put some sort of limiter on the maximum buff, such as further increasing the cost of what it was for the damage booster?

EditEdit: Actually, forget the healing completely, as that's covered by the positive energy feat. If we can store positive effect potions for later injection with the fillable spike augment, through a feat or just by default, then it would be enough to produce substances which provided Aberrant Bonuses to allies when you injected them with it, again, by means of a feat, or by default, whichever you think fits. Attribute Boosting instead of Attribute Draining, which a max for the boost, or hell, if you wanted to make it hilarious, require them to make an actual damaging attack to inject their allies with the boosts. It'd be an interesting balancer.

That would likely be part of the group of beneficial potions that could be injected. They also would all require at least the spike attack, though I might allow the ozodrin to make a standard action to attack with only the spike. Then again I might just make it so if they want to do that they need to use features like fins or blunt tentacles (thus giving them a sting attack at the spikes damage, which, if unaugmented is 1).

Owrtho

[Owrtho]

Well, because I realized I consistently forgot to have PRCs advance the manifest form ability, I decided to simply put a line in it stating any PRC that advances features does so.
Edit: Removed the line. Realized not all of the feature advancing classes should advance manifest form.

Owrtho

[Owrtho]

Lets see about making some feats for ozodrin that want to be doctors then. Names may need improvement (greatly). Wording may also need some clarification. May need some other better restoratives.

Syringe (Aberrant)
You may store curatives as well as poisons in your hollow spikes.
Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Hollow Spike augment
Benefit: Your hollow spikes may now store any kind of potion, though if you choose to store it in the spike you don't gain the benefits of it. In turn you may administer the potion to an individual as you normally can administer poisons and diseases with hollow spikes. If you so choose, as a standard action you may make an attack against an individual with one of your filled hollow spikes, and if successful, you will inject them with its contents and only deal the spikes base damage without any strength modifier. If the individual is willing, they may choose to forgo any bonuses to their AC other than natural armour for the purposes of this attack.
Normal: You may only fill your spikes with poisons and diseases.

Medicine Maker (Aberrant)
You become able to produce restoratives and other beneficial fluids rather than just detrimental ones in your spikes.
Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Syringe, Debilitating Spike augment
Benefit: You gain access to the below spike augments. Note, medicinal bonuses do not stack.
Normal: You may only produce detrimental fluids.
Special: If you have the strange energies feat, the restoratives that grant temporary hit points may be infused with negative energy to instead heal that many hit points for undead, but not affect others. If you have the soothing energies feat, the restoratives that grant temporary hit points may be infused with positive energy to instead heal that many hit points, but not affect undead. (chosen upon adding the augment)

Spoiler

Show

Lesser Regenerative Spike☨: Additional cost 2
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Lesser Regenerative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed. Starting with the round it is administered, and persisting for a number of rounds equal to twice your charisma modifier, the target gains 2 temporary hp each round. This hp is lost after the targets normal hp unlike most temporary hp, and lasts a number of minutes equal to the number of rounds it accumulates.

Greater Regenerative Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Lesser Regenerative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed. Starting with the round it is administered, and persisting for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier, the target gains 3 temporary hp each round. This hp is lost before the targets normal hp, and lasts a number of minutes equal to the number of rounds it accumulates.

Name1 Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Str for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Name2 Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Dex for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Invigorating Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Con for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Name3 Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Int for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Name4 Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Wis for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Name5 Spike☨: Additional cost 4
Requires Medicine Maker feat and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own restorative. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Invigorating Restorative. This restorative requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) which can be willingly failed and grants a +2 medicinal bonus to Cha for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Rapid Restorative: Additional cost 3
Requires Medicine Maker feat and one of the ☨ Spike augments: The restorative the spike can produce is quick acting. The bonus is increased by 1 (in the case of regenerative spikes, lesser grants 1 extra temporary hp each round and greater grants 2 extra temporary hp each round). This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different restorative the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected restorative. The cost of this augment increases by 1 for every 2 times it is applied to a given restorative you can produce.

Virulent Restorative: Additional cost 1
Requires Medicine Maker feat and one of the ☨ Spike augments: The save DC of one of the restorative this spike can produce is increased by 2, to a maximum of 10+Class Level. This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different restorative the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected restorative.

Potent Restorative: Additional cost 2
Requires Medicine Maker feat and one of the ☨ Spike augments: The potency of the restorative this spike can produce persists. The number of minutes its affect lasts increases by 1 (in the case of the regenerative spikes, the number of rounds it it grants temporary hp increases by 2 for the lesser and 1 for the greater). This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different restorative the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected restorative.

Owrtho