Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Matar]

After reading the Murmur feat again I have to say, I really think it's a bit overpowered.

Think about it: If a Ozodrin takes a single dip into True Xeno they can have four active murmurs by level 2. And you can take this feat multiple times. Sure you're limited to form points but with a high CHA and a few aberrant feats it's not really a penalty.

I think adding some kind of Will-Save penalty would really help balance things out, along with the form point penalty. Maybe a -2 to Will Saves if you're not a True Xeno and a -4 to Will-Saves if you are?

[Owrtho]

After reading the Murmur feat again I have to say, I really think it's a bit overpowered.

Think about it: If a Ozodrin takes a single dip into True Xeno they can have four active murmurs by level 2. And you can take this feat multiple times. Sure you're limited to form points but with a high CHA and a few aberrant feats it's not really a penalty.

I think adding some kind of Will-Save penalty would really help balance things out, along with the form point penalty. Maybe a -2 to Will Saves if you're not a True Xeno and a -4 to Will-Saves if you are?

Except, from what I figure (given the wording), it doesn't give you additional active murmers. If you don't have any (due to not being a xenothurgist of any type), you gain one. If you have active murmers already, you just gain more murmers that you can swap out as normal for a xenothurgist. I didn't think that would be enough to warent a will save penalty on top of the form point loss.

Also, any feedback on the feats in the post above?

Owrtho

[eftexar]

I don't know if I love it or hate it when a class is too cool to actually post anything constructive... I wish I had a campaign going to test this class out in.

[Roger3]

Well, I made an account just for this. I haven't been following the past ~20 pages of discussion, but I made a pretty PDF for anyone who wants it! right now it just contains the basic info, I'm working on adding the feats, features, ability's and so on. I don't know if someone did this already. Not sure how to attach files so here is a download link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?u9qxl865f2mlula

EDIT: updated link; added Abilities. Should I include more pictures of Ozoi, or should I find other pictures? (there is always that pesky space in between sections)

[Owrtho]

Well, I made an account just for this. I haven't been following the past ~20 pages of discussion, but I made a pretty PDF for anyone who wants it! right now it just contains the basic info, I'm working on adding the feats, features, ability's and so on. I don't know if someone did this already. Not sure how to attach files so here is a download link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?e8oi8dhfdlbe1ol

Well, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a pdf made for the class, though there was a word document a while back that has since come to be somewhat out of date. Anyway, I'm glad you like the class. Also, while I don't think I've ever seen the particular style of organization your pdf uses, it looks quite nice so far, and seems to be rather well organized. I look forward to seeing it complete. I would note though that the first row in the special column seems to be lacking its pale grey highlighting.

Owrtho

[Roger3]

Old Damage|New Damage
1d2 |1d3
1d3 |1d4
1d4 |1d6
1d6 |1d8
1d8 |2d6
1d10 |2d8
2d6 |3d6
2d8 |3d8
Is this the correct size adjustment chart for how much damage a mouth does? (does it just have the same damage stats as a shortspear of appropriate size)
Also, is there a limit to how big of a mouth you can have?

[Owrtho]

That is the correct damage adjustment table (assuming you're increasing size), and it does result in the mouth dealing damage as a shortspear of the appropriate size.
As for a limit to max size. Mostly no. Mostly because while you may make the mouth as big as you want, damage stops increasing after it reaches colossal (this is true for all features). However, once you reach level 21, the max size damage can be increased by goes up by 1, and continues to do so every odd level thereafter (also true for all features. Results in >=20/colossal, 21-22/colossal+, 23-24/colossal++, etc.).

Owrtho

[Matar]

This might be an odd question, but why isn't Swallow Whole a part of devour? Is it for a balance reason?

I mean, what's to stop an Ozodrin from just opening it's mouth and letting someone crawl through at level 2? Or is it just that, like, you can't use it offensively until level 8?

[Owrtho]

This might be an odd question, but why isn't Swallow Whole a part of devour? Is it for a balance reason?

I mean, what's to stop an Ozodrin from just opening it's mouth and letting someone crawl through at level 2? Or is it just that, like, you can't use it offensively until level 8?

The main reason, balance. After all, with how swallow whole works for the ozodrin it has a large amount of utility usage. From a built in bag of holding, to a method of smuggling people places.
However, if you'd prefer a more in game reason, easiest explanation is gag reflex. Just say they haven't figured out how to overcome their aberration granted gag-reflex till level 8. Could also be explained with ability to widen the throat or the like though.

Owrtho

[Matar]

Okay, see, that kinda confuses me. I thought things left inside your stomach vanish after a few rounds? Or am I misreading it?

If the ozodrin has recently Devoured a creature, there is a 100% chance that any loot it had on it might be in the stomach (determined for each piece of loot individually). This decreases by 5% for every round since the creature was devoured. A corpse or body parts (unless artificial) will never be found this way.

So using it for a Bag of Holding wouldn't be very wise, right? Although carrying people places is indeed awesome.

[Owrtho]

That only applies to things that were devoured, not things that were swallowed whole. As such once you gain swallow whole it is possible to keep things safe in your stomach. Hence the reason many have called it a stomach of holding.
As for why that is the case, it just has something to do with the devouring process.

Owrtho

[Lix Lorn]

...
I've been following this thread for like most of it's life.
WHY HAVE I NOT PLAYED AN OZODRIN YET.

[NineThePuma]

...
I've been following this thread for like most of it's life.
WHY HAVE I NOT PLAYED AN OZODRIN YET.

Cause you prefer it when I have the tentacles?

[Magikeeper]

Comments on new stuff (new to me, anyway):

Feats:
Flesh Calls to Flesh: This is awesome.
One’s Form in Miniature: Also cool.

Hole in Time: Even as an Epic feat, fast-time is crazy overpowered. Yes, any DM that allow fast-time planes to exist / interact with other planes will have to deal with this issue anyway, but this feat lets you put the party in your stomach and thereafter win the action economy. Maybe an additional pre-req should be: Must have visited a plane where time moved at least ten times faster than normal for at least 30 consecutive days. That way you don’t add fast time to parties that don’t already have access to that headache. Alternately, I would just remove the ability to speed up time or even add a “Special: An Ozodrin that has not visited a fast time plane for 30 consecutive days can still take this feat, but they can only slow down time inside their stomach. Once they meet the visitation requirement they can speed up time in their stomach as normally allowed by the feat. “

----------------------------------------
Also, are special eyes extraordinary? If so, then the example given in reality warping flesh about special eyes and dead magic zones should be changed to talk a magic item or something. I recall that example being written by me, so it might not coincide with what you want the effect of the special eyes to be.

[NineThePuma]

I'm making a Deity, and giving it Ozodrin levels. =3

But I was wondering what sort of Divine Salient Ability would go well as "Divine Ozodrin" in the vein of Divine Paladin and Divine Monk.

[Cipher Stars]

I'm making a Deity, and giving it Ozodrin levels. =3

But I was wondering what sort of Divine Salient Ability would go well as "Divine Ozodrin" in the vein of Divine Paladin and Divine Monk.

Spoiler

Show

[Owrtho]

Hole in Time: Even as an Epic feat, fast-time is crazy overpowered. Yes, any DM that allow fast-time planes to exist / interact with other planes will have to deal with this issue anyway, but this feat lets you put the party in your stomach and thereafter win the action economy. Maybe an additional pre-req should be: Must have visited a plane where time moved at least ten times faster than normal for at least 30 consecutive days. That way you don’t add fast time to parties that don’t already have access to that headache. Alternately, I would just remove the ability to speed up time or even add a “Special: An Ozodrin that has not visited a fast time plane for 30 consecutive days can still take this feat, but they can only slow down time inside their stomach. Once they meet the visitation requirement they can speed up time in their stomach as normally allowed by the feat. “

Well, given the inability to interact with things outside the fast-time area, I'm not sure that it is as abusable as other situations of sped up time for action economy. Then again, I'm sure there are ways to break it. I'll consider adding such a requirement.

Also, are special eyes extraordinary? If so, then the example given in reality warping flesh about special eyes and dead magic zones should be changed to talk a magic item or something. I recall that example being written by me, so it might not coincide with what you want the effect of the special eyes to be.

Well, I've always considered special eyes to be supernatural, but looking at it, it seems either I forgot to add that to the description, or it got lost in an edit. As such it now mentions that the gaze attack is supernatural (though the eye itself is extraordinary).

I'm making a Deity, and giving it Ozodrin levels. =3

But I was wondering what sort of Divine Salient Ability would go well as "Divine Ozodrin" in the vein of Divine Paladin and Divine Monk.

Well, I'm not particularly familiar with those things, so unfortunately can't give much advice.

Owrtho

[Draken]

A Divine Ozodrin salient divine ability would probably simply give the deity extra form points (3 x Ozodrin level for double normal form points perhaps?).

I mean, the Divine [Class] SDAs aren't all that hot. Double effect on Aura of Courage (Paladin), Special Attacks, Special Qualities and Magical Beasts on wild shape (druid > paladin, as usual)... Some stuff for ranger and bard that I didn't bother checking.

[Tacitus]

I'd actually think that an Ozodrin Divine Salient Ability would let them put features on their followers, divine allies (not just "Allies"), and Heralds.

>.> Unless of course I've forgotten something that lets them add their own features to the D&D term "Allies" already. I do that sometimes. The forgetting thing.

[NosferatuZodd]

You can already do that by making them wear images of you or tattooing images of you onto them.


You could do something like give a child a full body tattoo, send it into the enemy base. Then use the enlarged flesh feature or whatever and start adding natural weapons after you've found a hiding place, then raise all hell.

[NineThePuma]

Maybe some form of cost reducer?

[Lix Lorn]

You can already do that by making them wear images of you or tattooing images of you onto them.

You could do something like give a child a full body tattoo, send it into the enemy base. Then use the enlarged flesh feature or whatever and start adding natural weapons after you've found a hiding place, then raise all hell.

But that would be wrong.

[Volthawk]

But that would be wrong.

Two words: Naught Morality.

[Draken]

I'd actually think that an Ozodrin Divine Salient Ability would let them put features on their followers, divine allies (not just "Allies"), and Heralds.

>.> Unless of course I've forgotten something that lets them add their own features to the D&D term "Allies" already. I do that sometimes. The forgetting thing.

Not really. Divine [Class] Salient Divine Abilities are direct improvements to the deity's class levels in that class through his divine power. Nothing to do with followers.

As a matter of fact, when it comes to their followers deities really only ever grant clerics their spells or give a boom for a sacrifice (evil ones).

[NosferatuZodd]

Other ways to infiltrate with this class, become extremely small, make sure your tentacles are properly sized, worm your way into a human of any age and use your tentacles to manipulate his limbs from the inside, turning him into a puppet.

[Magikeeper]

I noticed an issue: Aberrant feats give a sizable penalty to disguise checks. To be more specific, this hurts pretending flesh and puppet a lot. I think both of those features have a good reason to ignore the aberrant feat penalties, but unless we specifically state it as an exception RAW says the Ozodrin eats the penalty for any disguise check.

Also, could we add the ability to taste and smell like something else to one of the flesh feature augments?

On another note, I found a typo in Engorged Flesh [Bold word missing]:
Special: An Ozodrin with at least one instance of this augment is immune to atmospheric pressure effects.

Same issue with condensed flesh.

Furthermore, there are a myriad of ways for a caster ally with 9th level spells to effect a battle from another plane. Especially when that plane comes with its own built-in door to the battle. Hole in Time is as abusable as any other fast time plane - maybe even moreso. So if the casters don't already have access to a way to break the action economy* we shouldn't to give them one.
*Well, more than they already can at those levels.


---------------------------------------------
Finally, it is currently impossible for an Ozodrin to take One's Form in Miniature before epic levels without multiclassing, EEDDCS, or selling your soul. Since its second effect is similar to the spawn feature, perhaps that could be the requirement instead of sinister image? The feat is much stronger if you have SI, yes, but it is still useful at level 18. It would actually give some competition to the corrupting land feat at least.

[Owrtho]

You're right on the aberrant feat penalty to disguise, which has now been corrected in the text.

As for taste and smells, there's always the fragrant flesh augment, which totally was there before my last edit.[/BlatantLie]

Fixed the typo in engorged and condensed flesh.

Your issue on hole in time is valid. I'll consider a fix for it (likely something along the lines of the one you mentioned before).

I have modified the requirements for One's Form in Miniature to require Shifting Shape rather than Sinister Image. It is quite handy for spying or tracking people.

Owrtho

[Amechra]

You know what would be fun?

An Akodrin (the Ozodrin bloodline made by Welkneir) Feat Rogue with Otherworldly Skill and Aberrant Monstrosity.

[Owrtho]

Not quite sure what you mean by feat rogue, though from the context I expect it is a rogue with extra feats. If so, that could be dangerous, given the stacking abilities of aberrant feats, and the fact they could get 15' reach without too much trouble.

Anyway, a feat idea I had, not overly sure on the balance of it.

Shadowed Horror (Aberrant)
Your nature is tied to darkness and has granted you the ability to draw on the power of the Plane of Shadows.
Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points (minimum 4)
Benefit: Select three paths of mysteries (See Tome of Magic, Shadow Magic. More can be found in the Descent of Shadows project). You may not select a master path if you do not have an initiate path, nor may you select an initiate path if you do not have an apprentice path. You must permanently sacrifice 3 form points. To learn a mystery you must permanently sacrifice a number of form points equal to the mystery's level, as well has already have learned all earlier mysteries in the path. Unlike a shadowcaster, you do not need to know two mysteries of a the previous level to learn one of a higher level, though you are limited to the selected paths, and may not learn mysteries of a higher level than a sorcerer of your level could learn spells. For the purpose of a mysteries type (arcane spell, spell-like, supernatural) and caster level, you count as a shadowcaster of level equal to your ozodrin level. You may normally only cast each mystery a number of times per day as a shadowcaster based on the mystery's type. However, you may allocate a number of form points equal to the mystery's level + 1 toward additional castings of it for the day. If you use those castings you may not allocate those form points elsewhere until the next day.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. The effects don't stack, instead select different paths each time. You may count paths from previous times of taking this feat toward what paths you may select. If you gain mysteries from another source, your ozodrin levels stack with that source for determining caster level of all your mysteries. Form points sacrificed for this feat or to learn spells are still counted for abilities or requirements that take into account your total number of form points such as the Horror ability of the ozodrin, and if important are considered assigned.

Thoughts? Also, I'd appreciate some advice on if this feat needs balancing as I may well be making use of it in the current PRC contest. Honestly I'm surprised I hadn't already made a shadowcasting feat, given it's one of my favourite magic systems.

Owrtho

[Lix Lorn]

Not quite sure what you mean by feat rogue, though from the context I expect it is a rogue with extra feats. If so, that could be dangerous, given the stacking abilities of aberrant feats, and the fact they could get 15' reach without too much trouble.

I would guess it's the Unearthed Arcana variant, that swaps out sneak attack for a fighter feat progression.