Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[DracoDei]

Ah okay. So then, if I can't spit up an inorganic creature, what happens to it (another obvious question I know, but I'd rather have it straight than interpret it)? Does your stomach just digest it? I can't imagine that it's good for the Ozodrin to have piles of inorganic creatures just accumulating in his/her stomach.

[humor mode]These guys have eyes growing where they not only SHOULDN'T be, but physically CAN'T be, and you are worried about a bit of indigestion?

Ever hear about they guy who ate a Cessna aircraft?[/humor mode]

[OhMyGodImOnFire]

The stomach digests creatures slain by devour, it's saying that you may not treat inorganic creatures as if their different bodyparts are items in themselves.

Digestion is not covered by a sidebar in Owrtho's ozodrin, I'll write one later but for now consider coughing up items as an exception to automatically digesting any slain creature.

Ahh okay, I figured as much, but I'm glad you could help me clear it up

[humor mode]These guys have eyes growing where they not only SHOULDN'T be, but physically CAN'T be, and you are worried about a bit of indigestion?

Ever hear about they guy who ate a Cessna aircraft?[/humor mode]

Hey man, considering all the things an Ozodrin can do, indigestion is probably one of the bigger worries. Just imagine the horror story in that bathroom after the Ozodrin had to use curry to wash down the rest of that clay golem. *shudders*

[Hanuman]

Here's an interesting concept...

How does one factor an ozodrin's size modifier against a creature that is inside her stomach?

[Necroticplague]

Here's an interesting concept...

How does one factor an ozodrin's size modifier against a creature that is inside her stomach?

It depends. Are you using features within the stomach to grapple? Use the size of the largest feature as normal. Trying to keep your meals down? It doesn't mention using features, and actually isn't a grapple (just a grapple check), so it is unaffected by size completely, only gaining bonuses from things that give straight bonuses to grapple checks, like Deepspawn, Aberrant Blood (flexible limbs), and Improved Grapple.Size gives bonuses to "special attacks", it wouldn't effect this at all.

[Hanuman]

It depends. Are you using features within the stomach to grapple? Use the size of the largest feature as normal. Trying to keep your meals down? It doesn't mention using features, and actually isn't a grapple (just a grapple check), so it is unaffected by size completely, only gaining bonuses from things that give straight bonuses to grapple checks, like Deepspawn, Aberrant Blood (flexible limbs), and Improved Grapple.Size gives bonuses to "special attacks", it wouldn't effect this at all.

I was talking more about how the creature is in a plane made of you, you'd probably have just a smidge more structural control over them than if they were topside

I think that it's currently fine though (considering that swallowed shaken creatures without that lose their sight are debuffed more than enough), I'll homebrew some more stuff to manipulate the stomach semiplane to help flavor it more.

[Necroticplague]

I was talking more about how the creature is in a plane made of you, you'd probably have just a smidge more structural control over them than if they were topside

I think that it's currently fine though (considering that swallowed shaken creatures without that lose their sight are debuffed more than enough), I'll homebrew some more stuff to manipulate the stomach semiplane to help flavor it more.

But unless you have a limb inside you, your control over your throat isn't greater than that of any other creature.You can try and tighten your throat, or swallow, but that's about it.

[Hanuman]

But unless you have a limb inside you, your control over your throat isn't greater than that of any other creature.You can try and tighten your throat, or swallow, but that's about it.

Mm I mean more along the lines of grapple checks while grappling with features, it's not that your features are bigger, it's that you yourself are bigger as a biproduct of being a plane yourself.

You could snare their foot from the ceiling and pick them straight up, or you could grapple someone's leg from the ground with the sturdiness of a tree. You don't need 20-40 years of martial proficiency of being able to neutralize a person's balance or counter joint structure body mechanics when your body mechanics involve being a big room that they are in.

Escaping your throat on the other hand could prove more perilous, you could improve that DC, add hazards or deceptions, all sorts of jazz.


On another note, there's an eye limbo dimension in Hexxit minecraft:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...mbo_sky.ig.png

Sleeping monoliths with opening eyes and all sorts of creepy.

[Yarghenforgen]

So normally when an ozodrin isn't manifesting their true form, the air is cut off. What about if they took the Stigma feat for a mouth? Does that give access to their stomach and maintain air flow when they aren't manifesting their true form?

[Rolepgeek]

Something of note:

Get three level 8 Ozodrin.
Gather your 384 Halfling/Gnome/Other Sentient and Dangerous creature army.
Get a wizard who can cast Teleport.

I think you can see where this is going.

[Hanuman]

So normally when an ozodrin isn't manifesting their true form, the air is cut off. What about if they took the Stigma feat for a mouth? Does that give access to their stomach and maintain air flow when they aren't manifesting their true form?

No, because having your original mouth isn't suppressed when in your worldly guise, your connection to your primary stomach is.

You could argue that you could Stigma a secondary stomach, RAW says that you need to designate a mouth that leads to it when that mouth is created but honestly that doesn't look intended. If you were to go by RAW you'd stigma a stomach, then stigma a mouth feature and designate the stomach.

To put this in other terms, your primary stomach is like a bag of holding, when you are in your true form it is open, and when you're in your guise it is closed.
A secondary stomach stigma could bypass this and create another bag of holding that is always open.

You could then doorway augment your secondary stomach and create an airflow to your primary one.

Something of note:

Get three level 8 Ozodrin.
Gather your 384 Halfling/Gnome/Other Sentient and Dangerous creature army.
Get a wizard who can cast Teleport.

I think you can see where this is going.

Commanding a zombie general could work, they boost your undead control to triple digits, Swarmlord PC's could be interesting, same with having a hulking hurler throwing things out of your mouth.

[Hanuman]

What do you guys think about a domination (as the power/spell) as an augment?

The enchantments on features can already petrify or suck your brain out, why not dominate?

[ShadowFireLance]

I would totally love that. So, Just so I think I know what's going on, You (Hanuman) are re-writing Ozodrin?

[Hanuman]

Well I'm creating a slight variant from the ground up. It's actually a huge project and has taken several months of dabbling.

The intended new model will have:

• Highly Improved Balance, using balance reference datapoints and /level bonus caps
• Stripped down features. Fins, spikes, puppets, spawn have all been removed and turned into aberrant feats as they are para-archetypical to core Ozoi.
• Simplified feature management, including the removal of stacking bonuses per X amount of features. (In theory this works really nice for a static build ozodrin, but at the table it's kind of a nightmare to manage events as you are changing your character and trying to calculate 60FP+ worth of build out.)
• Added "Organ" feature, which replaces and combines Special Eye, Flesh, Stomach and a handful of other augments while adding a huge amount of utility to the class without making it overbearing. This is balanced with the removal of features being included in the class. Essentially Organ would handle most of the ability or special effects of the ozodrin, combining gramarie, psionic and biological processes to yield a full array of options. (Organ allows the ozodrin to become a tier2 class).
• Condense all features, manifest and form point class features into a single class feature that improves with level. ("Manifest")
• Changed late-game core flavor to be more in-line with Ozoi with Uncertain Shape (Ex) and Flowing Shape (Ex), and works with similar archetypical parallels as well.
• 3.5/Pathfinder
• Combining all current content into a palatable visual format, with graphics, audio and fancy formatting. If Owrtho likes it, perhaps I'll put together a .pdf file once things are all solid. (I've seen a half-completed ozodrin pdf before, but it didn't go anywhere.)

[NineThePuma]

How do you add audio to a thread?

[mgelinas]

Don't let the noise of others' opinions drowns out your own inner voice, and most important，have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.

WOW Gold-Runescape Gold-Buy RS Gold

[Hanuman]

How do you add audio to a thread?

Youtube, soundcloud and grooveshark.

I'll be booked solid until burningman on the 24th with work, choreography and prep, I'll tackle the home stretch in september =]



I found an obscure usage of Form Points that seems to pre-date ozodrin, I'll be taking a look at it and seeing what can be worked in while retaining balance and flavor.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...Limit_Warriors

[Hanuman]

Hi guys, wondering if anyone can clear up what this means:

In addition the ozodrin ignores penalties due to size for grappling

Does this mean you CAN grapple bigger creatures than you should be able to, or does this mean you ignore any size advantage they have on you for being larger than you are?

[Moonwolf727]

Hi guys, wondering if anyone can clear up what this means:



Does this mean you CAN grapple bigger creatures than you should be able to, or does this mean you ignore any size advantage they have on you for being larger than you are?

I believe it refers to this:

Special Size Modifier

The special size modifier for a grapple check is as follows: Colossal +16, Gargantuan +12, Huge +8, Large +4, Medium +0, Small -4, Tiny -8, Diminutive -12, Fine -16. Use this number in place of the normal size modifier you use when making an attack roll.

So if you were Small or smaller you wouldn't recieve the -X penalty for being that size.

[Hanuman]

Understood, just wanted to be clear =]

I was planning to release the new model by the end of the month but I got 10 days notice yesterday for my place (my lease-holder popped the lease) and it's going to get pretty hectic fast, so it may have to wait until next month

[Owrtho]

I've seen a half-completed ozodrin pdf before, but it didn't go anywhere.

Just off had thought I'd mention I'm pretty sure there was at least one completed ozodrin PDF (though I think by now it is out of date), however it wasn't particularly fancy with graphics or the like, being more concerned about just having clean formatting and coming through to fix up poor wording that had been missed before hand.

So if you were Small or smaller you wouldn't recieve the -X penalty for being that size.

This is correct.

That said, I am interested to see the final result of Hanuman's efforts. I've contemplated trying to do a rewrite of the ozodrin before, with some minor simplification and fair amounts of cleaning things up.

That said, while I can understand the removal of spikes, puppets, and spawn, it does seems like fins would be worth keeping in even if they don't quite align to the core inspiration of Ozoi, given they grant the ozodrin access to flight and swimming which can be quite useful for those who don't want to be confined to that one core concept and want to go with a more general horror.

Owrtho

[Hanuman]

Puppycat, featuring a monster with both teeth and tentacles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UetSeZtrY2s#t=1m39s

This is correct.

That said, I am interested to see the final result of Hanuman's efforts. I've contemplated trying to do a rewrite of the ozodrin before, with some minor simplification and fair amounts of cleaning things up.

That said, while I can understand the removal of spikes, puppets, and spawn, it does seems like fins would be worth keeping in even if they don't quite align to the core inspiration of Ozoi, given they grant the ozodrin access to flight and swimming which can be quite useful for those who don't want to be confined to that one core concept and want to go with a more general horror.

Owrtho

I actually thought I had sent you a message about it, but looking at my sent box my computer must have overheated and blipped off at some point when half-done the message (I browse from a $150CAD gaming laptop I bought from a gaming guildie 2 years ago).

The form points spent on a removed feature do not count against the point limit of a feature added at the same time.

Just to be clear, this means that your FP limit for adding things is separate from your limit from removal? Or?

I've actually been working on the remake for several months, it's been really hard work and I don't blame you for not updating, the only reason I even started bothering is because ozodrin was a major component in another class I made called the Dreamer, which is designed to modularly swap out class levels and I wanted to remake a model of the ozodrin that worked with that, and ended up needing to completely rebalance it, and then I realized I actually liked working on the ozodrin more than I did the class I was actually wanting to make and play for 100% of my next campaigns as a player.

I moved half the features into other features because I felt that they needed to be a different category, things like "special eye" felt more like an augment, and things like flesh or stomach seemed like they could be the same thing. There was definitely a flavor need for a "misc" feature so that's why the Organ was chosen in instead of just more augments and more simplification and cuts.

The reason why some features became feats is that they both represent an ACF and a balance issue of utility vs. intensity stacking mechanics.
In a balance perspective giving players options between being a more durable and generally more impacting frontliner and being more of a rounded utility is a good option, it allows more customization, keeps the archetype more clear, and allows the character to re-decide whether they want to unlock that feature type every 3 levels, giving them consistant freedom of decision. Moving a feature to a feat is not meant to be a removal from the class, all features are intended to be listed in one simple post, some will just require a flat feat unlock, parallel to early-access feature unlock feats.

The main improvement that will be made is the amount of polish that's gone into the new model, I've formatted everything exactly how I like it, the rules are more concise (all walls of text eliminated), I've made cuts when necessary and the class features alone have decreased by a few hundred words despite adding 2 new class features.

I'd be really interested in working on this with you Owrtho, I'll try PM again =]

[Qwertystop]

Just to be clear, this means that your FP limit for adding things is separate from your limit from removal? Or?

As best as I can figure, it means that if you're removing and adding features at the same time, the amount of FP you have to put into the feature you're adding is not increased by the amount you're freeing up by removing.

That is, the adding doesn't take the removing into account for how much FP you have. Adding comes first, then removing.

[Owrtho]

As best as I can figure, it means that if you're removing and adding features at the same time, the amount of FP you have to put into the feature you're adding is not increased by the amount you're freeing up by removing.

That is, the adding doesn't take the removing into account for how much FP you have. Adding comes first, then removing.

Actually it is the opposite, though looking back in it, I can see where that ability is badly worded. It was intended to convey that they don't count against in the sense they don't count as already being spent. There are likely a number of little wording ambiguities that could use fixing up in this class.

Owrtho

[Hanuman]

Ah yes it was unclear whether the "limit" in question was the FP pool itself or the limit to change, and obviously a huge difference in balance intention.

I'm going to be playing around with the flavor concepts of expanding upon twisted and distorted mind, I feel there's a lot that can be done with that, let me know if you guys get inspired around those concepts, anything helps.

[Hanuman]

My computer has shorted out so I will be working offline for the next while and transferring the information back off of paper when I return.

Currently writing in a notebook at an average of 2 pages a day, this will of course be boiled down and re-worked a few times then polished up and added.

[adversityarchit]

"All of an ozodrin‘s natural attacks gained from features are considered primary attacks unless otherwise noted. If the ozodrin has natural attacks from sources other than its class levels, such as its race, it may instead choose to use its racial natural primary attack(s) instead."

Can someone please clarify what this means for me? After skimming the entire thread, most of the discussions I saw relating to other natural attacks implied that an ozodrin could make full use of all natural attacks from other sources as well as the amount granted by features within the cha+level/2 limit. So why the wording "instead"? If I attack with racial primary attacks, does that make my ozodrin feature attacks secondary?

[Necroticplague]

"All of an ozodrin‘s natural attacks gained from features are considered primary attacks unless otherwise noted. If the ozodrin has natural attacks from sources other than its class levels, such as its race, it may instead choose to use its racial natural primary attack(s) instead."

Can someone please clarify what this means for me? After skimming the entire thread, most of the discussions I saw relating to other natural attacks implied that an ozodrin could make full use of all natural attacks from other sources as well as the amount granted by features within the cha+level/2 limit. So why the wording "instead"? If I attack with racial primary attacks, does that make my ozodrin feature attacks secondary?

The answer to that last question is yes.

[adversityarchit]

Okay, thank you! So by logical extension, the opposite is also true? Using my Ozodrin feature natural attacks as primary would result in natural attacks from other sources being treated as secondary?

I ask because I'm using a combo Ozodrin/Evolutionist (with eventual plan to become a Malshaper PrC) to represent a Phyrexian creature for a campaign with my DM's permission, and the lack of claws for Ozodrin at low levels is a serious bummer for this purpose, so I plan to get those with mutations instead.

This also brings up a related grey area which I don't think has been addressed, which is how natural attack mutations gained from form points by Malshapers using the Fossilized Form ability would be treated as far as the attack limit is concerned.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pic related, my ideal manifested form.

[Draken]

Okay, thank you! So by logical extension, the opposite is also true? Using my Ozodrin feature natural attacks as primary would result in natural attacks from other sources being treated as secondary?

I ask because I'm using a combo Ozodrin/Evolutionist (with eventual plan to become a Malshaper PrC) to represent a Phyrexian creature for a campaign with my DM's permission, and the lack of claws for Ozodrin at low levels is a serious bummer for this purpose, so I plan to get those with mutations instead.

This also brings up a related grey area which I don't think has been addressed, which is how natural attack mutations gained from form points by Malshapers using the Fossilized Form ability would be treated as far as the attack limit is concerned.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pic related, my ideal manifested form.

Fossilize Form is not a feature, it simply uses form points to add mutations to you.

[adversityarchit]

Alright thanks, one more question, back on the subject of primary/secondary attacks. My DM reminded me that Pathfinder (the system we're using) has a different ruling for those than 3.5, so when adapting an Ozodrin over to Pathfinder how then should I treat the natural attacks from other sources? I think this is what caused the confusion in the first place actually.

Sorry I'm a bit of a noob as far as a combat oriented class is concerned!