FATAL: A Campaign Journal

[Bayar]

It didn't cost me a cent to print, and you seem to be forgetting that paper has both a front and a back side. So, 500-ish pages, yes. I don't like gaming books sitting on a computer, and the price was right. Sort of missing the point though, aren't we?

Yeah, I miss the point of printing FATAL of all things.

[lesser_minion]

I've heard a lot about how much Byron decided to arbitrarily discriminate against certain careers, so I'm not surprised that Rock snapped.

Don't priests get something like 1 AP per hundred years or something?

[potatocubed]

To be honest, I've always had a similar sneaking thought about FATAL - that beneath the awful content lay an equally awful core system. Thanks for confirming this for me.

[Gahrer]

Just... wow. I have heard about the system before but it seems as if the makers deliberatly tried to make it as bad as possible. How can anyone even think of releasing this?

Awesome journal though. I'll keep checking this thread.

[warmachine]

So, beneath the bigotry, misogyny and sexual obsession are character creation mechanics that waste time on trivial details, often create incompatible and unbalanced parties and often creates characters that lack the range of skills and equipment to be adventurers. In this violent world, did any of the party have weapons? Would they be any use in combat? Did they have a decent range of skills to bluff/persuade/sneak/steal/divine their way towards their goal?

On top of this, random character creation often creates characters that the player doesn't want to play. Who would want to play a soap maker? So, beneath all that, it's boring!

[lesser_minion]

In and of itself, random character creation isn't so bad, as long as it isn't too random, and players have at least some ways to bias the whole thing.

It can be interesting, but it shouldn't be forced down the player's throat.

FATAL, however... ewwww.

[Prodan]

It sounds like this campaign journal could be a...

Fatal mistake.



YEEEEEAAAAHH!!!!!

[lesser_minion]

It sounds like this campaign journal could be a...

Fatal mistake.



YEEEEEAAAAHH!!!!!

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

[Greenish]

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

But the cake is a lie! Yay for old memes!

[Optimystik]

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

That rule is really...

()

...crummy.

YEEEEEAAAAHH

[Mike_G]

I applaud your honest attempt to seek knowledge and actually play it.

I don't know anyone else who has played it, although a lot of people have read it. I found it too mired in fake "realistic" statistics to ever bother, with a lot of disturbing details, and a lot of factual errors.

The squicky parts of the game could be avoided by having a group whose idea of fun isn't playing sociopathic sex offenders, so that may never come up.

I can't see the totally random character generator working with many groups. Most people want to play a heroic warrior, or a powerful mage, or a swashbuckling outlaw or a master thief. Not many people dream of maxing out their profession in Dung Shoveler.

A noble experiment. I don't have much faith it will prove to be a good game, but kudos for testing the conventional wisdom.

[kamikasei]

I would get some popcorn, but I don't think it's a good idea to eat while I read this.

Someone - Swordguy, I think - has said they tried the game before, though. They avoided the squick and found it just amounted to a crappily-designed, unfun-to-play system, IIRC.

[Mongoose87]

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

I guess you could say the sentence is delicious.

YEAAAAAAAAAH!

[Coidzor]

On top of this, random character creation often creates characters that the player doesn't want to play. Who would want to play a soap maker? So, beneath all that, it's boring!

After all, you know what dorfs do to soap makers.

[SuperMuldoon]

oh man, A+ thread. I will be following this!

[DragoonWraith]

Why would you do this? Seriously. Did you at least read the review, the rebuttal (which does more to dissuade me from ever attempting to play FATAL than the review did initially), maybe the TVTropes "Let's read FATAL!" thread? All are horrific.

Like this:

Reviewer: "Great, so FATAL is the date-rape RPG."
Author Rebuttal: "Once again, you take something out of context in order to slander me. Where is dating involved?"

(emphasis mine)

in FATAL, I’m the Aedile (pronounced EE-dile). I tell them that historically, an Aedile was the Roman official in charge of games. My group nods enthusiastically, and part of my brain is wondering if that’s true or not.

OK, credit where it's due, Hall's knowledge of Rome and Romans far surpassed his knowledge of Medieval Europe. In fact, a lot of the book seems to be talking about Rome rather than Europe, despite his whole "REALISM!!1" thing. The use of Aedile here is roughly accurate. Most of the Latin spewed across the pages for no apparent reason is correctly translated, too (though I did see at least one that had some tenses off). Why he didn't just set things in Roman times, no one will know, but I think everyone has a sneaking suspicion that he didn't honestly realize they weren't the same.

[Saph]

Why would you do this? Seriously.

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.

[kamikasei]

Why would you do this? Seriously. Did you at least read the review, the rebuttal (which does more to dissuade me from ever attempting to play FATAL than the review did initially), maybe the TVTropes "Let's read FATAL!" thread? All are horrific.

Well,

But ever since I read the rather scathing reviews as well as Byron Hall’s rebuttal,...

But as he explains,

...I came to the conclusion that Mr. Hall had a point... The reviews were always amusing and appalling in equal measure, but one after another they failed to do the most important thing, the thing that Mr. Hall mentioned several times in his refutations.

None of them had actually PLAYED the game.

---

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.

It felt like something from a rather warped game of Dwarf Fortress, except that DF is absurdly detailed across the board and doesn't seem to stack weirdly, worryingly specific details where they'll cause the most squick.

[Jarian]

Your service will be remembered when they lay your sanity to rest. *salute*

[DragoonWraith]

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.

Well, if you enjoyed that, I recommend the TVTrope thread on it. They didn't really attempt to play, but several people rolled characters to see what happened, and they also describe all 900+ pages of awful for everyone's amusement.


And yes, it is hilarious.

[Prodan]

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

Don't be so anal.

Did you roll poorly on your circumference check?

[lesser_minion]

Don't be so anal.

Did you roll poorly on your circumference check?

Did you completely miss the blatant hypocrisy of referencing two overused unfunny memes in order to complain about one overused unfunny meme?

Because, until I explained it, that was meant to be the joke.

Which you have just made me ruin.

Congratulations.

[Prodan]

Victory is mine.

[Greenish]

Victory is mine.

Yeah, step on it and say good-bye to your legs.

[Gametime]

I've heard a lot about how much Byron decided to arbitrarily discriminate against certain careers, so I'm not surprised that Rock snapped.

Don't priests get something like 1 AP per hundred years or something?

I've never read the book, but the TVTropes review claims that 1000 AP is necessary to hit level two. A clerk gets 1 AP per month of service, so just over 83 straight years of clerkship to gain one level.

Honestly, I'm almost more offended by the horrific excuse for game balance than I am by the horrific excuse for "historical realism." I find it easier to believe that someone would enjoy the biased, discriminatory, hypersexualized man-child fantasies implicit in FATAL than that someone would enjoy shaving OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND beards to hit level two as a barber.

[Dogmantra]

Which you have just made me ruin.

Nice job breaking it hero.

Now now, you need a meme in your rebuttal too, else it's just not meta enough. See my revision.

[Jayabalard]

I've never understood the argument that you have to experience something to judge it.

I don't have to eat all of an apple to know it's bad; seeing the rotten sagging bits on the surface is enough for me.

There are lots of things that look terrible at first glance but wind up being good.

For example, look into the process for capturing wild yeast or vinegar mother, which involves leaving juice and fruit peelings sit out until stuff grows in it. It's pretty gross when you think about it. It would be really easy to dismiss it as "I don't need to try it, I can see the rotten fruit peelings and that's enough for me" but, things made with these can be quite tasty.

I'm not saying anything about FATAL, I'm just making a more general remark about the fact that you can't necessarily judge something properly without experiencing it.

[Prodan]

For example, look into the process for capturing wild yeast mother, which involves leaving juice and fruit peelings sit out until stuff grows in it. It's pretty gross when you think about it. It would be really easy to dismiss it as "I don't need to try it, I can see the rotten fruit peelings and that's enough for me" but really, cider/beer/vinegar/etc made with it can be quite tasty.

From a biochemical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with mold; it has some uses and can benefit humanity. Unlike FATAL.

[Jayabalard]

From a biochemical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with mold;

Depends on the mold... some of them are quite deadly.

And even the good ones look pretty gross.

I thought the example was pretty clearly a bad one, since a rotten sagging apple is at the core (haha) of the process needed to gather a wild yeast strain. So, it looks bad at first glance, but it's a bad idea to dismiss it just because it doesn't look appealing.

Personally, I kind applaud someone who's willing to "take one for the team" and try something that looks terrible.

[Bharg]

I really enjoyed reading through your journal. The descriptions of your FATAL characters really are hilarious and they appear to be rather comical than realistic. They escaped the kobolds, entertaining.
I hope that impression is not that misleading and their first real encounters with hostile creatures won't get too 'graphic' and gory. Also liked the screnario.

Don't give up [You and your friends( the cake is a lie!)] and keep up the good work!