FIFA 2010 World Cup

[SaintRidley]

It was quite an impressive goal indeed.

They won't get one like that against Germany, though.

[Errandir]

But that's legal. Queens can move like rooks. Maybe you mean a knight? I get those words mixed up tons too.

D'oh. Yes, fixed now.

[Iruka]

I still can't believe it. I figured Germany had a chance against Argentina, but this ...

Right now, people in Germany tend to suddenly start chanting: "Vier zu Nuuuuuull!"

[Delta]

Wow... just... wow.

4-1 vs. England
4-0 vs. Argentina

I can write that a dozen times and still don't quite believe it. And now there's Spain, who, honestly... well they haven't impressed me too much this tournament, not in a single match they played.

Everything is possible. I don't know when it's ever been that much fun to watch a german side play.

Again... wow.

[GolemsVoice]

I guess the Germans begin to realize that they actually ARE the best team in the Cup. Most people you asked before the game said, well, semifinals at best, or not even beyond the quarter finals (the most popular opinion at the beginning, I think).

[SaintRidley]

I'm just going to be happy seeing the German team do what I've wanted for the past twelve years. Win the World Cup.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Good to see Germany playing like this, seeing as it's the last World Cup of my childhood and all. It's time for the hammer of Germany to strike!

[I'm not debating rules further, cause my approach to it is that of a ref and thus totally irreconcilable with most of what's been said. Incidentally, that's why I don't get bothered so much by violence against other players - they're all just disposable nuisances ]

[Thrawn183]

As far as gamesmanship goes, Suarez really wasn't that bad. Let's take a team that's down by one goal, and trying to tie the game. I can think of two different situations.

First, they take a shot that a player saves with his hands. He's ejected from the game, barred from playing the next game, and the other team gets a penalty kick which they are very likely to make.

Second, they never take a shot because players on the other team pretend to be injured and in need of being taken off the field.

See how in the first situation the team still has a very good chance of tying the game? That never happens in the second situation. So when you talk to me about gamesmanship, keep in mind the far worse things that go on.

[ForzaFiori]

I guess the Germans begin to realize that they actually ARE the best team in the Cup. Most people you asked before the game said, well, semifinals at best, or not even beyond the quarter finals (the most popular opinion at the beginning, I think).

I must admit, I'm really surprised at the German team. What with the several injuries before the cup, I was in the group thinking quarters at best. It seems that being forced to start strong young players with their excellent and experienced older players has created a monster.

Well, that and the fact that they're a foot taller than everyone else. I'd have problems playing to if I could never see in front of me when I was guarded.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

After the second match of today, some thoughts (sorry for my bad english)

1. I read a lot of opinions this days, quite rageous opinions from people of South America who were laughing at Europe, as so many south american teams were in 1/4 and some great european nations were kicked out. I won't laugh back, not my style. I'll just write the account: Europe 3 - S.America 0.

2. Spain did it. I must say it was a very tough match for us, as every spaniard knew. The wall of defence & counterattack with physically agressive play is the arch-nemesis of Spain's style of playing. If the spaniards don't have rythm, they suffer. And we all suffered today, but we crushed the wall (Villa, always!), and finally made it.

3. The whole of Spain is very happy to have Germany as rivals a semis. Why? Easy. Germany has a unique style, they have good players, they play a very good football, they play TRUE FOOTBALL, as they showed today to Argentina. People like Schweinsteiger, Özil or Klose really do the difference. The spaniards like this because they enjoy true football and they are delighted to play against a team that still has warriors with honor who play fair and good.
Yeah... it will be a great match to watch. May the best one win. (the only thing we regret is that Muller won't play, it's a pity)

[Rothen]

Do you ... do you understand the offside rule? Cause that wasn't offside. At all.

Nothing personal, it just ... wasn't.

Wow, gee, thanks for the credit.

I can't find any good footage of it on youtube, but I'm still sure that Appia was offside when the pass was given.

But that's 2 pages and 2 matches ago, so it's now irrelevant!


Die Mannshaft did great yesterday! The remaining teams are going to have to do their best if they want to beat a Germany like the one that played yesterday.

[Raistlin1040]

Well, I was sorely disappointed early on by France and Italy, two teams I generally enjoy watching. However Germany and Holland have REALLY impressed me. I've been pulling for Germany the entire Cup, and if the finals came down to those two teams, I would be a very pleased soccer fan.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Wow, gee, thanks for the credit.

I can't find any good footage of it on youtube, but I'm still sure that Appia was offside when the pass was given.

But that's 2 pages and 2 matches ago, so it's now irrelevant!

Y'know, I said I wasn't going to debate rules again but ... nyeah

There were two defenders on the goal-line, both trying to clear the ball of the line, one of them by any means necessary. It's impossible to be offside from that position.

Okay. Shutting up now. All done.

[GolemsVoice]

3. The whole of Spain is very happy to have Germany as rivals a semis. Why? Easy. Germany has a unique style, they have good players, they play a very good football, they play TRUE FOOTBALL, as they showed today to Argentina. People like Schweinsteiger, Özil or Klose really do the difference. The spaniards like this because they enjoy true football and they are delighted to play against a team that still has warriors with honor who play fair and good.

That's very cool. No matter who wins, everybody has a share. Unless the opposite team is acting in a fashion grossly unfair, that's what football is supposed to be. A good fight, with exciting moments, anf fair chances, after which you can go home and, no matter who won, say: "Everybody had the chance to make the match, they/we were just a bit better."

[Delta]

Europe 3 - S.America 0.

Well, last time I checked, Uruguay wasn't exactly located in North America, you know

But yes, to everyone who predicted that this World Cup would mark the end of european dominance of football, the quarterfinals must've been a vast disappointment.

And even when considering how Uruguay got there, I can't help but think of Germany in 2002, yes, they're in the semis, but the teams they beat on their way there weren't exactly top of the crop (in 2002, Germany got to the final by beating Saudi-Arabia and Cameroon in the group stages while drawing against Ireland, and then beating Paraguay, USA and South Korea 1-0 each in the knockout matches... not exactly the most impressive resume)

[TheFallenOne]

I must admit, I'm really surprised at the German team. What with the several injuries before the cup, I was in the group thinking quarters at best. It seems that being forced to start strong young players with their excellent and experienced older players has created a monster.

Well, that and the fact that they're a foot taller than everyone else. I'd have problems playing to if I could never see in front of me when I was guarded.

One of the injured was our designated keeper, Adler, who is 25. While his replacement Neuer does a mostly good job so far, I'd have preferred to see Adler. Playing with a way younger team was in no way forced.

Oh, one of our very best, Lahm, is just 1,70 and rather slim. And yet he routinely outplays other top players, I love that guy

And even when considering how Uruguay got there, I can't help but think of Germany in 2002, yes, they're in the semis, but the teams they beat on their way there weren't exactly top of the crop (in 2002, Germany got to the final by beating Saudi-Arabia and Cameroon in the group stages while drawing against Ireland, and then beating Paraguay, USA and South Korea 1-0 each in the knockout matches... not exactly the most impressive resume)

Aye, and even against these Kahn had so save our butt multiple times. It's no coincidence he was the first keeper to ever receive the Golden Ball. I miss the guy, he was just awesome

On the Argentina game: one has to note the changed reaction of the Argentinan players, when we narrowly defeated them 2006 they started a melee, this time they were too crushed to do anything. Serves them well for being sore losers four years ago

[lostlittlebear]

Not to rain on anyone's parade of analogies, but both things are quite legal.

-runs away in ignorance of hockey rules-

But I'm pretty sure that rugby players aren't allowed to physically block conversions, unless we play rugby wrongly in Singapore.

On topic: Torres hits the post, it goes back to Villa, who shoots ... hits the post again, from there is bounces to the other post, and finally rolls in! We saw the Hand of God, now it's the Post of God. WHAT A GOAL!

My heart was in my mouth for that one, especially after the THREE missed/discounted penalties. Though the way they are playing they might be up for some trouble against Germany...

[Amiel]

Heh, Brazil really seem to have squandered their chances; although the deliberate and malicious intent to cause bodily harm with their shoe spikes is grossly poor sportsmanship.

Shame about Ghana.

[Dacia Brabant]

Well, last time I checked, Uruguay wasn't exactly located in North America, you know

Pretty sure he meant in head-to-head play: Netherlands over Brazil, Germany over Argentina, Spain over Paraguay = 3-0.

[LCR]

3. The whole of Spain is very happy to have Germany as rivals a semis. Why? Easy. Germany has a unique style, they have good players, they play a very good football, they play TRUE FOOTBALL, as they showed today to Argentina. People like Schweinsteiger, Özil or Klose really do the difference. The spaniards like this because they enjoy true football and they are delighted to play against a team that still has warriors with honor who play fair and good.
Yeah... it will be a great match to watch. May the best one win. (the only thing we regret is that Muller won't play, it's a pity)

Why don't we all just take a chill pill? It's a game, after all, and I don't like how so many people keep militarizing it and comparing sports competition to war. It's inappropriate.

You should also be wary to declare that you know the "truth" or in your case, what "true football" is. There isn't really right or wrong in football, as long as both teams adhere to the rules.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Well, last time I checked, Uruguay wasn't exactly located in North America, you know

Well, of course I meant in the Europe - S. America matches.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Why don't we all just take a chill pill? It's a game, after all, and I don't like how so many people keep militarizing it and comparing sports competition to war. It's inappropriate.

No it's not. Militarizing something is not using war metaphors in a sports match.
And of course there is honor in football. It's not very hard to take a look at World Cups and see the difference of style between teams. A team that wins with a fair play, without looking for agressive and dangerous faults, is of course a team with honor. And although all teams play dirty sometimes, there are teams that do it very occasionally, and there are other teams that make an ugly style of play from that. And yes, I keep saying, Germany is a team of honorable warriors, and a living lesson of football. I don't need any chill pill, thanks.

You should also be wary to declare that you know the "truth" or in your case, what "true football" is. There isn't really right or wrong in football, as long as both teams adhere to the rules.

Well, of course you're right here. When I was talking about "true" football I didn't mean there was any "false" one, neither I thought I know the truth about nothing. What I meant is that the only kind of football that people usually tends to enjoy and support is the one that searchs for a win from the very first minute, the football that looks for goals and not for surprises, the football that doesn't need to kick or elbow in the face of your rival to have a chance of winning. The kind of football that only a few, a very few teams in the world can afford. Sorry for my english if I can't explain it clearer. But I'm sure all football lovers know what I mean.

[Satyr]

There is nothing wrong with mutual respect and sportsmanship. I would probably call it fairness or sportsmanship and not so much honor, but I guess it means the same notion: The mutual respect for other teams because they play well and passionately, or because they appear to be sympathetic.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to see a great game with strong and passionate players.
Yes, the sometimes overtly aggressive overtones of overtly stupid newspapers or some highly entertaining yet a bit too arrogant trainers is kind of annoying, as stupid provocations usually are. That's something different to mutual respect, or even a celebrated and even slightly folkloric rivalry.

I, too, look forward to the match Germany - Spain. On the one hand, because I think this is the strongest German national team in years - one which wins matches because they are actually good, and not because they had ridiculous luck; on the other hand because the Spanish team which had always been one of the technically most advanced ones has finally overcome their traditional championship weakness. It's an open match, the Germans might have the stronger confidence bonus with the two very strong matches against England and Argentina, but there is nothing predetermined here, and there is no loss of face associated for any of the two teams if they would lose. The Spanish team is the current European Champion (which is actually harder to become than the world championship title due to the lower quality gap between the different nations), so it's okay to lose against them, at least in the semi-finals. The Germans have made two spectacular games against two teams which were proclaimed as favorites, so it's also no shame to lose against them.


Netherlands - Uruguay is a different matter. The Uruguayans were really lucky until now, and the Dutch team is more of a clear favorite than any of the team in the other semi-final, at least for me. This somewhat increases the pressure.

[LCR]

No it's not. Militarizing something is not using war metaphors in a sports match.
And of course there is honor in football. It's not very hard to take a look at World Cups and see the difference of style between teams. A team that wins with a fair play, without looking for agressive and dangerous faults, is of course a team with honor. And although all teams play dirty sometimes, there are teams that do it very occasionally, and there are other teams that make an ugly style of play from that. And yes, I keep saying, Germany is a team of honorable warriors, and a living lesson of football. I don't need any chill pill, thanks.

I know you probably don't mean it like that, but it irks me to no end, when people refer to sports as "war" (or to the participants as "warriors"). I know that the media is a major offender here (just look at the Hindustan Times who couldn't help themselves but refer to the German victory as "Blitzkrieg"), but that doesn't make it any better. Language likes this reinforces the strangely misled idea, that football is something more than a game, which it is not. It is not "serious business"* and should therefore not even remotely be connected with death, suffering and destruction, all of which are abundant in an actual war.

*Taken literally, football is of course very serious business. Billions of Euros are made each year in Europe alone. There's a rather interesting piece in a recent issue of The Economist, exploring the risk professional football clubs are taking, when they're forced to lend their business assets (the players) to the respective national teams for free.

[dehro]

I know you probably don't mean it like that, but it irks me to no end, when people refer to sports as "war" (or to the participants as "warriors"). I know that the media is a major offender here (just look at the Hindustan Times who couldn't help themselves but refer to the German victory as "Blitzkrieg"), but that doesn't make it any better. Language likes this reinforces the strangely misled idea, that football is something more than a game, which it is not. It is not "serious business"* and should therefore not even remotely be connected with death, suffering and destruction, all of which are abundant in an actual war.

*Taken literally, football is of course very serious business. Billions of Euros are made each year in Europe alone. There's a rather interesting piece in a recent issue of The Economist, exploring the risk professional football clubs are taking, when they're forced to lend their business assets (the players) to the respective national teams for free.

whilst I agree that warfare is serious business and quite a horrid thing per se, and sport should be as far removed from warfare as possible, there are facts that kinda counter your standpoint.
there are values in sportmanship such as personal honour, attachment to the flag, sense of national pride, self sacrifice and to some extent personal glory...
these values are very much similar to military codes of honour and conduct, both in peacetime and war.
more importantly however, we should not forget that ultimately, sports, throughout the millennia are a development of military training. running, jumping, fighting (boxing and fencing), showjumping, discus, javelin... you name it, all these sports are deeply rooted in military tradition and find their raison d'etre in preparing the athlete for the battlefield.
modern times would want us to move on from that...but millennia of traditions and repetitions, on more or less any level, make it so that lumping sport (any sport) together with warfare is hard to let go off..

[LCR]

whilst I agree that warfare is serious business and quite a horrid thing per se, and sport should be as far removed from warfare as possible, there are facts that kinda counter your standpoint.
there are values in sportmanship such as personal honour, attachment to the flag, sense of national pride, self sacrifice and to some extent personal glory...
these values are very much similar to military codes of honour and conduct, both in peacetime and war.
more importantly however, we should not forget that ultimately, sports, throughout the millennia are a development of military training. running, jumping, fighting (boxing and fencing), showjumping, discus, javelin... you name it, all these sports are deeply rooted in military tradition and find their raison d'etre in preparing the athlete for the battlefield.
modern times would want us to move on from that...but millennia of traditions and repetitions, on more or less any level, make it so that lumping sport (any sport) together with warfare is hard to let go off..

You're absolutely right. My point is that we should regard sports/football out of this primal context, not that there aren't many similarities. Like you correctly said, organized sports started out as military training/preparation for war. But as of now, football is only a game and should only be regarded as such.

[dehro]

You're absolutely right. My point is that we should regard sports/football out of this primal context, not that there aren't many similarities. Like you correctly said, organized sports started out as military training/preparation for war. But as of now, football is only a game and should only be regarded as such.

yes, but ultimately athletic challenges and confrontations of any kind play on something atavic in each of us...there's a reason why it makes sense for the All Blacks to perform the Haka before a match.

[LCR]

yes, but ultimately athletic challenges and confrontations of any kind play on something atavic in each of us...there's a reason why it makes sense for the All Blacks to perform the Haka before a match.

Maybe they should think about that practice.

[eyeofsaulot]

Sports matches serve as non-hostile microcosms for battles, and tournaments for grand scale warfare. They satisfy man's craving for conflict and to conquer without the hassle of casualties or shifts in political power. They fulfill the desires for belonging that one finds in the shared hometown or national pride.

It's clever, really. Without sports, I get the feeling there would be (even more) war and conflict going on in the world because there would be no suitable outlet for these needs. There's no way I could prove this theory though... =/

Whether anyone agrees with me or not, this is one of the reasons I love the World Cup and the Olympics. They incorporate the entire world into this massive act of satiation.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that sport, in a stark contrast to war, is fun.

[dehro]

Maybe they should think about that practice.

or maybe you could accept that for a lot of people sport is a way to release natural aggression and energy, a much more viable alternative to getting in a fight or going to war.

in the old days, countries (well..city-states) that took part to the Olympics stopped whatever war they were involved in for the duration of the games...nowadays they stay home...if they bother linking the 2 facts at all.
maybe we should consider more sport events in lieu of wars, as a way to settle disputes?