Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier

[Marillion]

So long as you don't start calling me Mar Bear, I'm ok with name shortenings

Really, the only friend we have in common is...my ex. And I'm having difficulty caring about what she thinks about me right now, and even if my ex did find out, the friends that she and I have in common won't care. And honestly, I think an encounter with someone else, casual or otherwise, would be a big thing in helping me get over my ex, who was my first and only.

As for it being revenge...I pondered my motivations long and hard, and I realize that I'm not really mad at the guy she slept with any more. He was a symptom, not the cause, and honestly he doesn't even cross my mind when I think about she and I. So no, I don't think it would be revenge.

[Syka]

Might as well give it a go, then, IF you (and they) are really OK with it. Just make sure you lay down some guidelines: how long it will be (a one off, a couple weeks, whatever), any of you three can call it off at any time without needing to give a reason, that sort of thing.

Just general stuff to try and make any potential mess minimized. Like if you notice yourself becoming attached, you should probably end it. I'd also advise against pursuing a relationship, if the primary relationship ends. Mostly just...wow, talk about complications, lol.

[Marillion]

Yeah, tell me about it But again, you speak wisdom. Wisdom, in this case, meaning things that I'd already settled on but have yet to communicate to her.

[The Extinguisher]

Things:
The plan was going out to a movie theater, but that's not very important.

I know I probably didn't help the situation any. It took her a little while to tell me why she didn't want to. She originally told me it was because her boyfriend didn't want her to. Which is true, because he absolutely hates me. He doesn't want her to see me at all, he didn't like me before we started dating when we were just friends (he also doesn't really like her going out drinking with guys anyways), and it got to the point that if the group was doing something, and I was there, she couldn't mention that I was or else they'd end up fighting.

So she says that, and I try to tell her that she shouldn't let him choose her friends, and she responds angrily with "it's actually because I still want to sleep with you" and that kinda shocked me. And I got a little upset, because I'd put myself through a lot to hold on to the close friendship, and it felt like it was slipping away. And we argued a little, and that's when she said she couldn't do the friendship thing with me.

Maybe I took it for more than it actually was? Now that I'm not upset or drunk or hungover, and can see that I acted like a bit of a jerk, and I can respect that she was honest (even though it took a while to actually be honest) and that she didn't actually give in to temptation, which would have been easier (and it's something she's done before. Hell, the only reason why we even got together in the first place is that she cheated on him). But at the same time, I still feel wronged somehow.

I guess I should give her some space, then talk to her about it. But I'm not even sure I want to anymore. I don't even know if it's worth it. I'm terrible at asking for advice. I keep going back and forth.

[Keld Denar]

So, I went to the bar last night with a bunch of friends for a friend's birthday party. A few new people were there. One of the new girls hits on me like CRAZY, to the point where she sat on my lap and put my hand on her thigh.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with this, but this girl is not attractive to me. All things being equal, she's about the same weight as I am. I'm 6'2" and work out a lot, so ~200 lbs looks good on me. She's about 5'4"...

Earlier today, a different friend was texting me asking if I was interested in her and saying that she thought we made a "cute couple".

I made some comments about how I barely knew her, and then I made up some BS about how I keep myself in shape, enjoy an active lifestyle, and having self-respect for your body is important for me and I don't want to be romantically involved with someone who couldn't keep up with me for physical reasons.

Now sitting here, I feel like kinda a ****ty person for rejecting her due to her weight, especially since the friend who was texting me is also moderately overweight. I mean, I'm not looking for a girl who's model thin, but she has to at least take care of herself, and this girl obviously doesn't.

[Coidzor]

Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how you keep fatties out of your lap, but there is a procedure for it. Never let 'em get wrist control though. That was just sloppy on your part.

But, yeah, should've just said you weren't interested and left it at that to be polite.

[Trog]

So, I went to the bar last night with a bunch of friends for a friend's birthday party. A few new people were there. One of the new girls hits on me like CRAZY, to the point where she sat on my lap and put my hand on her thigh.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with this, but this girl is not attractive to me. All things being equal, she's about the same weight as I am. I'm 6'2" and work out a lot, so ~200 lbs looks good on me. She's about 5'4"...

Earlier today, a different friend was texting me asking if I was interested in her and saying that she thought we made a "cute couple".

I made some comments about how I barely knew her, and then I made up some BS about how I keep myself in shape, enjoy an active lifestyle, and having self-respect for your body is important for me and I don't want to be romantically involved with someone who couldn't keep up with me for physical reasons.

Now sitting here, I feel like kinda a ****ty person for rejecting her due to her weight, especially since the friend who was texting me is also moderately overweight. I mean, I'm not looking for a girl who's model thin, but she has to at least take care of herself, and this girl obviously doesn't.

Soooo.... no eating Fhtägen Dazs for her then?

[xPANCAKEx]

oh trog... thats fantastic


The Extinguisher (and Syka)

she may have done the sensible thing, but it still doesnt mean it was nice or great

she is being selfish - and thats effecting The Ext's feelings. He should prioritise his own feelings now and look out for himself, rather than excusing her behavior

Keld Denar

you shouldn't feel guilty for not being attracted to someone. Regardless of weight being a touchy issue, its not like you've said "shes a fatty so i hate her" - you've just said "she doesn't take care of herself physically, and that important to me". Its a boundry for you, and not one to be ashamed of either. Physical attraction is also a massive part of any relationship, and should never be knocked

pyrian used to have a good analogy with chocolate about it i believe?

[MountainKing]

Keld - I've been working on losing weight since February, and it started to show in late April. Totally on board with you there, mate, and I have to say, I think you handled that situation about as tactfully as you possibly could have.

[Pyrian]

One of the new girls hits on me like CRAZY, to the point where she sat on my lap and put my hand on her thigh.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with this, but this girl is not attractive to me.

Yeah, probably should've extracted yourself from the situation before it got that far.

I made some comments about how I barely knew her, and then I made up some BS about how I keep myself in shape, enjoy an active lifestyle, and having self-respect for your body is important for me and I don't want to be romantically involved with someone who couldn't keep up with me for physical reasons.

"Sorry, not interested" should be sufficient. If they press the point, "she's not attractive to me" is generally the last line of tact. I wouldn't hang a lampshade on the specific issue without there being considerable prying involved.

Now sitting here, I feel like kinda a ****ty person for rejecting her due to her weight, especially since the friend who was texting me is also moderately overweight. I mean, I'm not looking for a girl who's model thin, but she has to at least take care of herself, and this girl obviously doesn't.

If it's not going to work, it's not going to work.

pyrian used to have a good analogy with chocolate about it i believe?

Hmm. Probably, but I can't recall it right now.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Probably, but I can't recall it right now.

I think it was something along the lines of Physical attraction is like chocolate, nice to have in quantity, but you don't want to base your entire diet on it.

Quincunx had it sigged for a while there IIRC.

[xPANCAKEx]

I think it was something along the lines of Physical attraction is like chocolate, nice to have in quantity, but you don't want to base your entire diet on it.

and you wouldnt want to live without it

[FoE]

Now sitting here, I feel like kinda a ****ty person for rejecting her due to her weight, especially since the friend who was texting me is also moderately overweight.

You were right not to lead her on, though you could have handled it better.

[Superglucose]

Probably went overboard with the weight thing, but whatever.

EDIT: Small twangs of pain at the fireworks display tonight. All those people there with their SOs, happy. I kind of miss being happily involved in a relationship. I mean, I really miss having the kind of person I trust completely and love dearly by my side, someone I'm also attracted to.

How could I not?

I also miss just the action of cuddling

EDIT the Second: By the by, weight is a perfectly valid reason not to date someone. If you aren't attracted to them because they are overweight, that's not a problem or something you need to "fix" any more than you need to "fix" that you're not attracted to blonds or skinny people.

It gets confusing because while (with some exceptions) weight is fairly easy to change, the self esteem of women is wrapped up in their weight, at least in American culture, thanks in no small part to delectably evil advertisements. Which makes it a taboo subject, even though the real reason you're not interested in her is because she has a bit of heft to her.
couldn't avoid teasing serpentine in the next sentence
It's kind of like if someone said they didn't like me because I had chest hair (looking at you serp ). I could either get it waxed or whatever or just say "You know what? I'll just wait for someone who appreciates who I am." Society just doesn't work that way in terms of weight, which I think is a shame.

TL/DR, there's no logical reason for it to be social taboo to say "I don't like her because she weighs too much for her height" and yet it is.

[skywalker]

And honestly, I think an encounter with someone else, casual or otherwise, would be a big thing in helping me get over my ex, who was my first and only.

I doubt this. Sleeping with someone else after breaking up with my (previously first and only) ex did not do anything for my getting over her. This is likely to have an impact on the girl you're prospectively "experiencing," one which she may not be aware will occur. Whether or not she desires that impact on her psyche is something she has to work out for herself, but it's impossible for her to know whether or not that's coming and whether or not she'll like it until after the act.

Anyway, back to you, the whole situation stinks of complications and emotions, something which, if it were me, I would avoid like the plague at your current juncture. I seriously doubt sleeping with someone else for the sole purpose of sleeping with someone else will in anyway affect your feelings about your ex, except perhaps to demystify the "first and only" area of that. If that's the only thing tying you to your ex, then it could possibly help, maybe.

But right now, all I'm seeing is brief, no-strings action which could have a serious impact on someone else as a best-case scenario. That doesn't seem worth it, to me.

"Sorry, not interested" should be sufficient. If they press the point, "she's not attractive to me" is generally the last line of tact. I wouldn't hang a lampshade on the specific issue without there being considerable prying involved.

I prefer "not my type," or something similar. There's any myriad number of things that could mean.

Hmm. Probably, but I can't recall it right now.

"Physical chemistry is like chocolate: Horrible as a complete diet, but I wouldn't want to live without it, either."

It was something like that, that's not verbatim. Pheehelm, where are you when we need RW&A history?!

EDIT: Small twangs of pain at the fireworks display tonight. All those people there with their SOs, happy. I kind of miss being happily involved in a relationship. I mean, I really miss having the kind of person I trust completely and love dearly by my side, someone I'm also attracted to.

How could I not?

I also miss just the action of cuddling

I know the feeling quite well.

[Pheehelm]

Don't underestimate physical chemistry. It's kind of like chocolate... Very tempting, very bad as a sole diet, yet I wouldn't want to live without it, either.

Post here.

[arguskos]

Post here.

Bout damn time you showed up. We've all be stumbling at it.

[xPANCAKEx]

a small anecdote of personal minor victory

I split with a girlfriend recently (6 months together off and on) after her repeated childish and selfish behavior had worn my self esteem to a nub, but regardless tried to stay friends. She didn't handle it very well, and after a short period of things being smooth and easy turned into a complete mare to deal with. She moved 250 miles away, and left things in a pretty poor state of relations - she was being a cow, i told her i wanted space and time apart from her (which should be easy consider the TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILES). She'd even deleted me from facebook... may seem childish to some, but i applaud it - if you cant handle seeing someones name pop up on your screen every time you log in, make sure they dont pop up. Simple. Probably one of the most adult bits of behavior shes done in a long time.

Now - i knew her trying to resume contact sometime soon was inevitable - i just didnt know how soon. Checked my phone, found i had a voice mail waiting. Yes, it was her. Apparently i'd been talking to her best friend, someone shes also not on good terms with, "all over facebook". So we're back to childish behavior. For the record, all it was was 4-5 messages sent back and forth, a bit of banter about her friend being drunk, nothing indepth to rock the boat really. Thought i'd ignore it, get on with life. Then she dropped me a mail over facebook too telling me to check my voicemail.

So what did i do to respond to all this? Did i get sucked in? I didn't. I blocked her.

the moral is: Never let an ex stress you out when you can just block them

[Syka]

Pancake speaks wisdom. I took that route when my ex became too difficult to deal with, and it made life much less stressful.

Plus you don't get tempted to Facebook stalk.

[Malfunctioned]

Not much news really about my attempts at a love life but Pancakes post above reminded me of something that happened recently.

I got back into contact with T, my ex, due to my inability to hold a grudge against anyone. I confessed that I did miss her and she said the same. She also said that she keeps on thinking of me whenever she gets the train (Us living on opposite sides of London meant that that was the only way we could get too each other) and when she saw me at an Expo she wanted to cry. I however can't say the same, she's still with the guy she started dating a few days after she dumped me but she told me that she wants us to be just as close as we were when we were dating. Except I don't think I can, whilst I do make friends with people easily and can develop close bonds with people easily as well it took a hell of a lot for me to become as close to her as I did, she wants that closeness back but, as far as I can tell, doesn't want us back, and even if she did I would probably say no.

In short, she wants us to be just like we were, except without being together, whilst she's still with another guy, I don't think I can.

Any advice?

[Superglucose]

I just settled for hiding her from my news feed, that worked perfectly.

[Pyrian]

I know a guy who refused to friend me on Facebook because I was already a Facebook friend with his separated wife. He explained this to me in person. I thought it was a bit odd.

[Syka]

I know a guy who refused to friend me on Facebook because I was already a Facebook friend with his separated wife. He explained this to me in person. I thought it was a bit odd.

Actually kind of makes sense. If he has his privacy settings set to 'friends of friends', she'd be able to see his profile- something he likely wants to avoid. As far as I know, you can only tailor settings to people you are friends with (ie, what they see, etc), not by 'friends of friends'. So...makes sense if he doesn't want her to be able to see his profile.


Malfunctioned, I think you are correct in deciding to not do it. Aside from the potential emotional infidelity, it wouldn't be fair to you to be "in a relationship without being in a relationship". Sounds like she wants to eat her cake and have it to. The likelihood of complications would be high if you were at that level of closeness.

If you want to maintain contact, keep it at "casual friends" or "acquaintences" rather than "close friends", I'd think.

[Trellan]

Malfunctioned, I think you are correct in deciding to not do it. Aside from the potential emotional infidelity, it wouldn't be fair to you to be "in a relationship without being in a relationship". Sounds like she wants to eat her cake and have it to. The likelihood of complications would be high if you were at that level of closeness.

Thank goodness someone else said it. I wanted to, but was worried I was just being bitter because I'm stuck in a somewhat similar bind at the moment. That being said, Malfunctioned, you are perfectly within your right to not want to be treated that way, and I suggest simply telling her you don't think you can handle that kind of situation.

[Coidzor]

In short, she wants us to be just like we were, except without being together, whilst she's still with another guy, I don't think I can.

Any advice?

Tell her straight up that, no, you can't go back to just how things were. Make mythological/narrative references as appropriate.

Depending upon your willingness to have contact with her whatsoever, that may just mean you don't want to be especially close but occasional chats are ok.

That closeness was hard won, and she threw it away. Intimate this to her without overt hostility.

[skywalker]

I just settled for hiding her from my news feed, that worked perfectly.

If I blocked/deleted every name that caused me pain, I'd have very few names/friends on Facebook.

What does that say about me?

[Dragonrider]

If I blocked/deleted every name that caused me pain, I'd have very few names/friends on Facebook.

What does that say about me?

That you interact with people?

Now, if they were all people who caused you pain intentionally, then you'd have a problem. But otherwise . . . just people. Doing their people thing.

[Kuma Da]

Not much news really about my attempts at a love life but Pancakes post above reminded me of something that happened recently.

I got back into contact with T, my ex, due to my inability to hold a grudge against anyone. I confessed that I did miss her and she said the same. She also said that she keeps on thinking of me whenever she gets the train (Us living on opposite sides of London meant that that was the only way we could get too each other) and when she saw me at an Expo she wanted to cry. I however can't say the same, she's still with the guy she started dating a few days after she dumped me but she told me that she wants us to be just as close as we were when we were dating. Except I don't think I can, whilst I do make friends with people easily and can develop close bonds with people easily as well it took a hell of a lot for me to become as close to her as I did, she wants that closeness back but, as far as I can tell, doesn't want us back, and even if she did I would probably say no.

In short, she wants us to be just like we were, except without being together, whilst she's still with another guy, I don't think I can.

Any advice?

'things just as they were' is one of those concepts that doesn't hold up in the real world. They're kind of necessarily going to be different. Let her know that.

It doesn't mean you can't still be friends, or that you have to turtle up and avoid all contact with her (although sometimes those help,) but the nature of relationships is to change. She doesn't get to instantly reverse that.

(I've been in a similar situation, although I was the "let's drag things back to the way they were" guy. Hopefully my advice helps.)

[Quincunx]

The act of blocking is fraught with rebuke. I cycle people on and off my ignore list on chats when they are in the thrall of the drama llama, but I do them the courtesy of letting them know I'm going to put them on ignore for the next X hours and please don't continue to expend your chat energies in this direction. This is never taken as anything but a rebuke (most likely because it is one, because I have pre-judged their communication for the next X hours). Even people who don't have a "freedom of speech" amendment believe in the internet giving them freedom to be heard by their target. Internet communication runs on the rules of sight, not of sound; you can shut your eyelids and also block people, you cannot plug your ears without having earplugs ready to hand, and too many people believe that the internet does not also provide 'earplugs' and other blocking devices.

[Lillith]

@Malfunctioned: What I have learned from experience (though I admit have very little) is that relationships can never be 'like it used to be' if one of the two is not interested in picking things up romantically. Not only is that painful for one of the two, but if there's a person in a relationship with one of them, it is also painful for them. I don't think there are a lot of people who like to see their SO being 'close' to another person. At least when it comes down to that the other person is of the opposite sex.

What your ex is asking is only going to bring trouble and lots of it. If you want to stay friends her you can, but make it perfectly clear that the two of you cannot achieve that kind of level of closeness again. If she wants that, she'll need to find it with her current SO.

Also grats on Pancake, who made a very smart move IMO.