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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Amaranth Eclipse


    An orc martial adept was renowned for his terrible strength and even more for his repulsive visage. On a pilgrimage from his tribe, he thought of putting the two together. Combined with the endurance bequeathed upon him by his orc heritage, the nameless master was able to completely disregard defense in any battle, his opponent’s attacks broken from sheer terror. The end result, born through years of trial and error, was the Amaranth Eclipse discipline. Many who fought against this wandering harbinger of bloodshed were impressed by his ability to cow their forces into submission, and thus began to copy his techniques.

    It would be giving its creator too much credit to say that the use of the Amaranth Eclipse discipline requires any measure of skill. While it is true that most of its users have finely honed their bodies to extraordinary strength and fortitude, this is more out of necessity in order to ensure the survival of the user and close the gap created by their near-complete disregard of defensive ideology.

    The users of the Amaranth Eclipse are usually brutes who give little thought to strategy or defense, absorbing and dealing damage with incredible strength and endurance. Their fierce countenance strikes terror into the hearts of their opponents, and even allows them to hypnotize themselves into a state of bloodthirsty mania.

    The Amaranth Eclipse is used for up close and brutal melee combat and is fit for little else. As such most of its weapons are those used for cleaving foes in twain. The greatsword, fullblade, greataxe, scythe, halberd, and guisarme are all associated with the Amaranth Eclipse. The discipline's key skill is Intimidate.

    Learning Maneuvers from the Discipline

    The original creator of the Amaranth Eclipse wasn't one to give lessons; many who learned his techniques did so through painful experience. Some were crazed enough to intentionally seek him out, coaxing one maneuver from him at a time. As a result, every maneuver from the current Amaranth Eclipse is purely imitational, taught by the survivors of those encounters. Even the discipline's very name originated from a copycat, who described his attacks as "a red storm blocking out the sun". The name stuck, despite the disagreements of some practitioners.

    Because of the scarcity of masters and the questionable intelligence of those who would teach it, the Amaranth Eclipse requires more dedication to master than most, since quality training is hard to come by. The techniques were dismissed by the Temple of the Nine Swords, who were unwilling to accept the ravings of a few suicidal lunatics as a discipline. Even so, those who endeavor to learn the secrets of the Amaranth Eclipse may still do so, replacing one of their normal disciplines (usually Devoted Spirit) with the Amaranth Eclipse.

    Maneuvers of the Amaranth Eclipse Discipline

    1st-Level Maneuvers

    Devilish Catharsis: Boost — Make an Intimidate check opposed by your target. Depending on the success of your roll, they are either shaken. frightened or panicked.

    Ire of the Rising Sun: Stance — You can wield weapons one size larger than normal without penalty.

    Masque of Red Death: Boost — Your next attack deals higher Strength-based damage than normal.

    Shook Ones: Counter — Make an Intimidate check instead of an attack of opportunity to immobilize your target for 1 round.

    Terror Tactics, Lesser: Strike — You make a single melee attack as a standard action that deals an extra 1d8 points of damage to a shaken opponent and 1d8 more damage per additional level of fright (frightened and panicked).

    2nd-Level Maneuvers

    Blade Grasp: Counter — Make a melee attack against a target that hits you in melee.

    Blitzkrieg: Strike — Make two melee attacks as a standard action.

    Deathbringer Assault: Boost — Sacrifice Armor Class for equal and opposite bonuses to attack and damage rolls.

    Psychological Warfare: Strike — Your attack imposes a penalty of 1d6 points of Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

    3rd-Level Maneuvers

    Bloodlust: Strike — You are healed a number of hit points equal to one half the damage dealt by this strike.

    Devil in the Mirror: Boost — You make an Intimidate check, and gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the check.

    Glare of Submission: Counter — You are able to steal a larger opponent’s strength with a mere look.

    Umbral Fever: Stance — For every 10 points of damage you take each round, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls during the next round.

    4th-Level Maneuvers

    Bloody Cleaver: Boost — When you drop an opponent in melee, you may immediately make a full attack against another opponent whom you threaten in melee.

    Iron Grasp: Counter — Make two melee attacks against an opponent who hits you in melee.

    Terror Tactics: Strike — As lesser terror tactics, except your weapon deals an extra 3d8 points of damage per level of fright instilled in the target.

    5th-Level Maneuvers

    Blade of Fury: Counter — Make a melee attack and an Intimidate check as an immediate action, adding the result of the check to the damage of the attack.

    Cathartic Inferno: Boost — As devilish catharsis, but in a radius around you and any target who would normally be panicked is now cowering.

    Penumbra of Destruction: Strike — The opponent struck takes double damage and must succeed on a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.

    6th-Level Maneuvers

    Crimson Tide: Stance — You may wield weapons up to two sizes larger than normal, and gain 5 additional feet of reach with all melee attacks made with such weapons.

    Comet Crush: Strike — Deal 1d6 points of damage per point of Strength-based damage you would normally deal.

    Red Scare: Counter — On a successful Intimidate check, the damage dealt to you by a damage-dealing effect or attack is halved.

    7th-Level Maneuvers

    Flash of the Scarlet Menace: Strike — You may now three attacks as a standard action, all at your highest attack bonus and without any penalties.

    Terror Tactics, Greater: Strike — As lesser terror tactics, except your weapon deals an extra 6d8 points of damage per level of fright instilled in the target.

    8th-Level Maneuvers

    No Mercy: Boost — Make an Intimidate check. Add the result of this check to the damage of your next successful melee attack.

    Savage Attack: Stance — All your attacks deal double damage, but all attacks on you also deal double damage.

    9th-Level Maneuvers

    Reflections in a Rubicund Eye: Strike — Your attack literally frightens opponents to death.


    Spoiler
    Show

    1st-Level Maneuvers

    Terror Tactics, Lesser
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Crusader/Warblade 1
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Your blade hacks through your opponents who, quaking in their boots at your approach, can do little to stop your onslaught.

    You make a single melee attack as a standard action that deals additional damage to a terrified foe. If your opponent is shaken, they take 1d8 additional points of damage from your attack. If they are frightened, they take 1d8 more damage on top of the damage for being shaken. If they are panicked, they take yet another 1d8 points of damage (for a maximum of 3d8 extra damage possible).

    Devilish Catharsis
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 1
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See text

    Your power positively oozes from you as you stare down your opponent, striking fear into his heart.

    You may make an Intimidate check that forces an opponent that can see you and that you threaten in melee to make a modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom modifier [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear). If you win the check, your opponent is considered shaken until the beginning of your next turn. If you win by 5 or more, the opponent is frightened for the same duration, and if you win by 10 or more they are treated as panicked.

    Shook Ones
    Amaranth Eclipse (Counter)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 1
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: One creature

    As your foe tries to flee, the sight of you stops him dead in his tracks, his legs buckling with fright.

    When you would normally be able to make an attack of opportunity as a result of an opponent's movement, you may instead make an Intimidate check. If your check beats your opponent's roll, they must immediately halt and cannot move until the beginning of your next turn.

    Ire of the Rising Sun
    Amaranth Eclipse (Stance)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 1
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You

    Your muscles bulge with power, and you feel as if a great weight has been lifted off your shoulders. With steady footwork, you heft a huge weapon that would normally be beyond your power to hold.

    You may wield weapons one size larger than normal without penalty. This stacks with any other ability that allows you to wield weapons one size category larger than normal, but does not stack with Monkey Grip or any other feat that increases permissible weapon size. In addition, all discipline weapons now have the option of dealing bludgeoning damage without a penalty to attack rolls.

    Masque of Red Death
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 1
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: See text

    You embrace a primal fury borne of years of battle, allowing you to channel your frightening rage into a vicious attack.
    Your next attack is imbued with extra force, and adds twice your Strength modifier in damage instead of the normal 1.5 times. If you are wielding a weapon in one hand, you add 1.5 times your Strength modifier to damage. If you can make a full attack action, this only applies to the first attack of that sequence.

    2nd-Level Maneuvers

    Blade Grasp
    Amaranth Eclipse (Counter)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 2
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature

    When your opponent's weapon penetrates, you adjust your position to trap it inside your hold and leave them exposed for a counterattack.

    When an opponent successfully hits you with a melee attack, you may make an melee attack against that foe. The target of your attack is denied their Dexterity bonus to Armor Class.

    Blitzkrieg
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 2
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Recognizing the slightest hesitation in your target, you press on mercilessly and deliver an additional attack.

    You may make two melee attacks as a standard action, both at your highest base attack bonus. Both of these attack rolls suffer a -2 penalty.

    Deathbringer Assault
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 2
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round

    Seething with feral viciousness, you attack your foe head on with no thought to defending yourself. You throw yourself at your foe, as if daring them to attack before falling to your blade.

    You disregard defense almost entirely, concentrating all your efforts into reducing enemies to mincemeat. You may incur a penalty to your Armor Class and gain an equivalent bonus to attack and damage rolls until the beginning of your next turn, but you can only take a maximum penalty of up to 1 point of Armor Class per two initiator levels. You cannot reduce your Armor Class below 0 with this maneuver.

    Psychological Warfare
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 2
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Your terrifying visage breaks your opponent's will just as your blade pierces their defenses.

    Your intimidation abilities have the ability to strike opponents dumb. On a successful attack, make an Intimidate check. If you succeed, your opponent incurs a penalty a 1d6 penalty to their Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores. This effect cannot reduce any ability scores below 1. This ability damage lasts for 1 round per initiator level.

    3rd-Level Maneuvers

    Bloodlust
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Reveling in your opponent's agony, you feel a rush on renewed vigor. You've never felt more alive!

    With this strike, you make a single melee attack against an opponent with whom you are engaged in combat. If the attack roll is successful, you are healed a number of hit points equal to one half the damage dealt to the target of your attack. Damage nullified from damage reduction the foe being past -10 hit points is not counted.


    Devil in the Mirror
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You

    You look into the steel of your blade, using your own powers of intimidation to hypnotize yourself. This altered state of consciousness grants you sweet reprieve from the pain of your injuries.

    When you use this maneuver, you make an Intimidate check. You immediately gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the result of your Intimidate check. These temporary hit points last for the duration of the current encounter.

    Glare of Submission
    Amaranth Eclipse (Counter)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature

    The massive brute bearing down on you tries to use its huge bulk to overwhelm you, but when he looks into your rage-filled eyes all the strength is drained from his body and you overwhelm him easily.

    When you are targeted with a special attack in which the opponent receives a special size modifier, you may make an Intimidate check. If you beat their opposed roll, all size bonuses conferred upon the opposing creature are negated. Bonuses from a high Strength score still apply normally.

    Umbral Fever
    Amaranth Eclipse (Stance)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You

    When the going gets rough, you laugh it off. Astounded by your lack of attention to your grievous wounds, your opponents leave themselves wide open to attack.

    For every 10 points of damage you take or deal each round you maintain this stance, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with melee weapons on your next turn.

    4th-Level Maneuvers

    Bloody Cleaver
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 4
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature

    One of your enemies falls, and your power is so great that he fails to even halt your momentum. Your blade lashes out to attack a second foe, not satisfied with one kill.

    You can only activate this maneuver immediately after you have reduced an opponent to 0 or fewer hit points with a melee attack. Upon its activation, you may launch a full attack on another opponent that you threaten in melee.

    Terror Tactics
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade
    Prerequisite: One Amaranth Eclipse maneuver
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Your blade hacks through your opponents who, quaking in their boots at your approach, can do even less to stop your onslaught.

    This maneuver functions just like lesser terror tactics, except your weapon deals an extra 3d8 points of damage per level of fright instilled in the target. Therefore, you can deal a maximum of 9d8 damage to the target with this maneuver.

    5th-Level Maneuvers

    Blade of Fury
    Amaranth Eclipse (Counter)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature

    Your horrifying features give your opponent pause, and he lowers his guard just enough for you to strike quickly.

    You may make a single melee attack and an Intimidate check as parts of the same immediate action. If the attack hits, add the result of your Intimidate check to the damage dealt.

    Cathartic Inferno
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Boost Action
    Range: See text
    Target: See text

    You are the center of attention, your terrifying visage causing all those around you to .

    This ability has the same effect as devilish catharsis, with several exceptions. Any creature that you can threaten in melee is now affected, even if they cannot see you. In addition, a creature that would normally be panicked by this ability are instead totally overwhelmed by fear, cowering and unable to act at all. You may affect up to one creature per two initiator levels with this ability.

    Penumbra of Destruction
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    You hit your enemy so hard they feel it down to their bones, reverberating through them and rendering them temporarily immobile.

    On a successful attack, you deal double damage and force your target to make a Fortitude save (DC 15 + your Strength modifier) or be stunned until the end of their next turn. In addition, this attack also ignores hardness when used to attack a construct or object.

    6th-Level Maneuvers

    Crimson Tide
    Amaranth Eclipse (Stance)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You

    You are so accustomed to swinging large weapons that you can now strike opponents from further away, maintaining maximum combat efficiency while increasing your sustainability.

    In this stance, you may wield weapons two size categories larger than normal, and you also gain 5 extra feet of reach when using a weapon at least one size category larger than yourself. Unlike ire of the rising sun, this stance stacks with any other abilities that grant larger weapon usage.


    Comet Crush
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    With awe-inspiring strength, you unleash a slash that strikes your opponent with the force of a falling meteor.

    For every one point of damage you would normally deal from your Strength modifier, you deal 1d6 points of damage. This replaces your usual Strength-based damage.

    Red Scare
    Amaranth Eclipse (Counter)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Two Amaranth Eclipse Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: See text
    Target: One creature

    The very sight of you weakens your opponent's resolve, causing their attacks to falter.

    When someone successfully strikes you with any attack or effect that deals damage, you make an Intimidate check. If your Intimidate check beats their opposed check, the amount of damage dealt to you by that opponent is halved. If the opponent makes multiple attacks on you, the damage from all attacks is halved for the rest of their current turn.

    7th-Level Maneuvers

    Flash of the Scarlet Menace
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 7
    Prerequisite: Three Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    In order to maximize your enjoyment of the battle, you have held yourself back against these pitiful little worms. Not anymore. Now the gloves come off, and you kick some ass.

    When you use this maneuver, you make three attacks as a standard action. All of these attacks use your highest base attack bonus and do not suffer any abnormal penalties.

    Terror Tactics, Greater
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 7
    Prerequisite: Three Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    Your blade hacks through your opponents who, quaking in their boots at your approach, can do absolutely nothing to stop your onslaught.

    This maneuver functions just like lesser terror tactics, except your weapon deals an extra 6d8 points of damage per level of fright instilled in the target. Therefore, you can deal a maximum of 18d8 damage to the target with this maneuver.

    8th-Level Maneuvers

    No Mercy
    Amaranth Eclipse (Boost)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 8
    Prerequisite: Three Amaranth Eclipse Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: One turn


    Fueled by your rage, your sword arm slashes harder than you ever thought possible, cutting through flesh and bone like a hot knife through butter.

    Make an Intimidate check. Add the result of this check to the damage of you next successful melee attack.

    Savage Attack
    Amaranth Eclipse (Stance)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 8
    Prerequisite: Three Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You

    Coated in the blood of your enemies, you tear your foes to shreds with absolutely no care in the world for your personal well-being. Each attack hurts more than before, but this is little consolation to your eviscerated opponents.

    So long as you maintain this stance, all damage you take of any kind is doubled. In return, all melee damage you deal is also doubled. If your damage is already being multiplied by another source, increase the previous multiplier by one instead of doubling. Because its basis lies in raw strength, this ability does not double precision-based damage (such as that derived from Sneak Attack, Skirmish, etc).

    9th-Level Maneuvers

    Reflections in a Rubicund Eye
    Amaranth Eclipse (Strike)
    Level: Crusader/Warblade 9
    Prerequisite: Four Amaranth Eclipse maneuvers
    Initiation Action: Standard Action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature

    With a terrible roar, you unleash a vicious slash with your blade. Your opponent, pale as a sheet, stiffens in the throes of rigor mortis and is rent asunder by the force of your attack, already dead before you even touched him.

    When you use this strike, you make an Intimidate check against your opponent's opposing roll. If you win and your attack hits, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (19 + your Strength modifier) against one of the effects below based on the result of the check:

    Reflection in a Rubicund Eye Effects
    {table=head]Result of Opposed Check|Effect

    Up to Intimidate check -1|
    Target takes 1d6 damage per initiator level

    Up to Intimidate check -5|
    Target takes 2d6 points of damage per intiator level

    Up to Intimidate check -10|
    Target is slain instantly
    [/table]

    If the save is made against the lowest effect (1d6 damage per initiator level), the target takes half damage. If a save is made against either of the higher effects, they are affected by the next lowest effect. An undead or other creature that is immune to death effects but subjected to the highest effect must instead save successfully or take maximum damage from the next effect.



    Feats

    Nightmare Fuel
    You can frighten anything.
    Prerequisites: Intimidate 4 ranks
    Benefit: Creatures who are immune to fear effects are no longer immune to your Intimidate checks. Instead, they gain a +4 bonus to their opposed rolls against your Intimidate check. This even affects creatures that are mindless, but they gain a +8 bonus to their roll instead of the normal +4.
    Normal: Creatures who are immune to fear effects cannot be affected by the Intimidate skill.
    Last edited by Cidolfas; 2010-06-27 at 07:44 PM. Reason: changed Savage Attack to double melee damage dealt only

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Very nice discipline, I'll do a more in-depth reading of the maneuvers later but right now they seem mostly balanced, and I might even steal your feat for one of my base classes, if you don't mind, of course.

    The only thing that sticks out right now is Psychological Warfare. It seems slightly too powerfull for a 2nd level maneuver. Compare it to Ego Whip, the psionic power, that only does 1d4 + 1 Charisma Damage. I'd suggest making it affect a single ability, or raise it to level 4 or 5, because right now it makes most BSF or even most monsters into inanimate objects in 1 or 2 hits (most creature have at least of dumb mental stats).
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Thanks for the feedback.

    The model for Psychological Warfare was the touch of idiocy spell. While that doesn't also deal weapon damage, I think it makes up for it by being a touch spell. As for ego whip, I always thought that the ability to augment it with power points to increase the damage dealt and save DC made it potentially more powerful than this, especially since it can daze for 1 round on a failed safe.

    The one contingency I forgot to add from touch of idiocy was that it cannot reduce an opponent's ability score below 1, thus reducing the likelyhood of turning opponents into braindead vegetables. Do you think that would make it more balanced?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    It would definately be more balanced. Also, their is the part were it says that it affects all ability scores. I think that this is slightly too powerfull for a level 2 strike, and maybe keep to one ability at level 2, and keep all three for a level 4 or 5 strike. Remember that strikes are usable almost at-will, and so should be slightly less powerfull then spells of an equivalent level.

    Also, considering the feat, it might be too powerfull for it's prerequise, as affecting mindless enemies with mind-affecting powers is unheard of (affecting people immune to fear is Ok), and should probably be a second feat with the first one as a prerequise

    Finaly, I think this discipline is perfect for the class I'm making (see the sig), and I might actually just use the whole discipline, and not just the feat, for it, if you don't mind of course.
    The Age of Warrior, a ToB expansion.

    Credits to Ninjaman for old Death Jester avatar.
    Homebrew (feel free to PEACH)
    Base Classes:
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    Disciplines:
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    The way I see it, the maneuvers aren't exactly usable at will since they are either randomly obtained for use (Crusader) or unable to use them again until you re-ready them (Warblade). So it's not necessarily as if you can repeatedly use the same maneuver every turn to reduce your opponent's ability scores continually. Also, having damage in each ability score doesn't seem much more devastating to me than dealing it to one score, since most spellcasting classes only rely on one ability score and the other combat benefits of Intelligence and Charisma are minimal if they aren't already your primary ability score. Wisdom is a little different since it affects Will saves and opposed checks against Intimidate, but if that's how people are going to plan to use this maneuver then they could do it regardless of whether they affected only one or all ability scores.

    I think Nightmare Fuel is tricky because, as you said, it is unheard of to be able to use Intimidate on mindless creatures. But when the discipline itself concentrates on the use of Intimidate not only for skill checks but for actual combat use, it would be crippling to not provide for measures against these creatures. Otherwise, there are boatloads of enemies that this discipline has no effect on. Admittedly, the purpose of ToB is to provide options using multiple disciplines, but I don't see any reason why there should be a massive list of enemies on which a discipline is largely ineffective. Even with the feat, undead aren't particularly terrible at Will saves since Wisdom is unaffected by being mindless, so along with the +8 bonus they're still tough to beat especially at the level at which Nightmare Fuel is first available.

    As far as using them for your own projects, go right ahead. I don't mind at all.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Touch of Idiocy effects all three, and yes, it has the key restriction of "but to no lower than 1". Second level spell, so PROBABLY a 3rd level strike.

    As for lots of enemies being immune to a discipline, that is one of the major gripes I hear against Desert Wind.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-06-26 at 01:20 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    So, if that is a gripe about Desert Wind, is there any feat that allows for the weaknesses of Desert Wind to be overcome? Or does it just mean that people accept that Desert Wind is weaker and possibly prefer other disciplines to it? I'm just wondering if I shouldn't have a feat that allows this discipline to overcome its weaknesses because it is a precedent to accept the weaknesses of a discipline as they are. If there are already feats that allow a particular discipline to get over its weaknesses, then I would presume that Nightmare Fuel is more acceptable.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Oddly enough FEATS are the one fix I HAVEN'T seen for Desert Wind (outside my own game, and that character hasn't even been played yet). I have seen parallel disciplines that literally were just refluffings, and "change all references in Desert Wind to Fire to instead be Cold, or Acid, or Electricity" they (quite rightly) didn't list out all the maneuvers. One of the "Master of One" PrCs around here grants an ability to bypass resistance/immunity at one point in its progression if you are taking it for Desert Wind.

    In my case, since the character in question custom was a homebrewed race* with no stat adjustments, and only low-light and scent for racial abilities, I threw in a feat that just says he can substitute Cold or Electricity for all the Desert Wind maneuvers he takes. This will be the first character the person is ever going to play in D&D, so he shouldn't be able to get too cheesy with it.

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    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-06-26 at 05:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    I'd increase the prerequisites for Nightmare Fuel some. At level 1 you won't be running into fear-immune creatures a lot, and if you have only 4 ranks in Intimidate and are a couple of levels higher, you likely won't use it as much as skills you have maxed out (otherwise you'd have Intimidate maxed out). Perhaps 8 ranks, considering monsters of 5 HD or above have a lot more resistances and immunities than those below.

    Is there also a particular reason why you have quite a lot of extra maneuvers beyond the norm for the lower levels, but have only two for levels 7th and 8th?

    No Mercy and Flash of the Scarlet Menace also both seem like they'd need a bump in level...
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    Is there also a particular reason why you have quite a lot of extra maneuvers beyond the norm for the lower levels, but have only two for levels 7th and 8th?
    That's not really different or odd. See here for a breakdown. Some have more, some have less: that's just how it is.

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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    I'd increase the prerequisites for Nightmare Fuel some. At level 1 you won't be running into fear-immune creatures a lot, and if you have only 4 ranks in Intimidate and are a couple of levels higher, you likely won't use it as much as skills you have maxed out (otherwise you'd have Intimidate maxed out). Perhaps 8 ranks, considering monsters of 5 HD or above have a lot more resistances and immunities than those below.

    Is there also a particular reason why you have quite a lot of extra maneuvers beyond the norm for the lower levels, but have only two for levels 7th and 8th?

    No Mercy and Flash of the Scarlet Menace also both seem like they'd need a bump in level...
    Would you say that Nightmare Fuel is not appropriate for a 1st level character? Because the way I figure it, the fact that you don't need to take it at level 1 (due to the lack of very many powerful creatures that are immune, since zombies and skeletons are generally weak enough that Intimidate doesn't make that big a difference) doesn't mean it needs to have the prerequisites jacked up. It's handy now because you can access it at any level that you need it, even though you may not need for a while.

    On review, I agree that No Mercy is a bit extreme, so I'm going to change it you your next melee attack (which still makes it better than the level 5 Blade of Fury because you can add it to another strike).
    Last edited by Cidolfas; 2010-06-26 at 07:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    I think the counter Red Scare should specify that the damage reduction is only for the opponent that you originally used the counter against, because now, if anybody uses an immediate action to cause damage to you during their turn, you still take half damage from it even if they weren't the one targeted by the counter.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    My comments, if I can collect them:

    Shook Ones - Maybe this should specify AoOs gained due to your opponent's movement (basically, the wording in which Mobility kicks in)? Not terribly important.

    Masque of Red Death
    What about one-handed weapons? Doesn't specify it can only be performed with discipline weapons (which is NOT a route I'd consider. There's 0 precedent for it in ToB).

    Psychological Warfare
    Change to a penalty to afflicted ability scores (just like Touch of Idiocy). Accordingly, specify a duration. I'd go for a rather short duration (3 rounds, like many White Raven maneuvers) or up it to a level 3 maneuver at which point you could get away with minutes or encounter or whatever.

    Bloodlust
    Quite abusable. LOTS of healing potential. I like the concept and it's one of those things that's painful to nerf because part of what makes it so cool is how effective it could be on the right build. But all the same... this can easily be a full heal every other round. This is better than the Devoted Spirit level 9 (unless you're one of those pansy altruists).

    Sadomasochism
    I uhh... suggest a change of name. Way too much sexual overtones in that name.

    Blade of Fury
    Why is this a counter? Looks like a Strike, to me.

    Neat discipline. Would go especially well with any number of martial barbarians, too.

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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Cidolfas View Post
    Would you say that Nightmare Fuel is not appropriate for a 1st level character? Because the way I figure it, the fact that you don't need to take it at level 1 (due to the lack of very many powerful creatures that are immune, since zombies and skeletons are generally weak enough that Intimidate doesn't make that big a difference) doesn't mean it needs to have the prerequisites jacked up. It's handy now because you can access it at any level that you need it, even though you may not need for a while.
    It just seems to me that a person with only 4 ranks wouldn't be very good at intimidation, and therefore would probably find it extremely hard to intimidate fear-immune creatures. *shrug*

    At least give them a penalty on Intimidate to try and intimidate otherwise fear-immune creatures, -4 sounds about right.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    The short version of Bloodlust has a copy-pasta error.

    As for its effects... there is much more to Heal and thus much more to the Devoted Defender 9th level than hitpoints. There is also ability score damage, diseases, poison, etc. Still, I think that 1/2 of damage dealt might be worth considering. Also make sure to put in the boiler-plate about it having to be a true foe (no mice or beetles that you carry around for the purpose), and probably even that you have to actually DEAL the damage, rather than it being overkill past -10, or getting lost in DR (IE anything prevented doesn't count, and you only get 11 hp out of a mouse... or more like 2 if the GM is using reasonable house-rules about really small things dying at -1 instead of -10). OTOH splattering an enemy across a wide area being better than just beheading him would be in-theme for this discipline.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-06-27 at 07:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Thanks for all the replies. I clarified Bloodlust and decreased it to one half damage dealt, since it can still be effective with the increased damage from other maneuvers. Also clarified Shook Ones, added one-handed weapons to Masque of Red Death, and changed the name of Sadomasochism to Umbral Fever.

    Blade of Fury is a counter because I felt that the discipline needed a counter that wasn't purely situational (a la Shook Ones, Glare of Submission, and Bloody Cleaver). Thus, it opens up more options for out-of-turn attacks. In addition, the trade-off of giving up your boost and/or swift action on your next turn prevents it from being to abusable in my mind. Since it's also only one melee attack, it's not as powerful as No Mercy, which can be added on to any strike you have in your arsenal, even though it is an immediate action.
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    Default Re: Amaranth Eclipse: ToB Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    It just seems to me that a person with only 4 ranks wouldn't be very good at intimidation, and therefore would probably find it extremely hard to intimidate fear-immune creatures. *shrug*

    At least give them a penalty on Intimidate to try and intimidate otherwise fear-immune creatures, -4 sounds about right.
    Currently, such creatures get a +4 to a +8 bonus on their check to resist, so that's covered.

    I want to say Intimidate 7 ranks makes more sense, but quite frankly, this is already feat tax to fix Wizards of the Coast' mistakes. As Cidolfas said, it won't really be useful early on, anyway.

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