[3.5] Best Ultimate Magus build?

[Tytalus]

Sanctum Spell.

Bring on the cheese!

[Keld Denar]

The interactions with Ultimate Magus and losing another level of Beguiler is something I had not considered. If you're starting play at or near Ultimate Magus 7, I'll concede that point.

This point is moot if you use an Illumian with any combination of the Krau sigil, as the 7th level of UM will advance Wizarding at that point, rather than your spontaneous class. At that point, the non-HP build should pull ahead.

[Gametime]

I deny that banning evocation - or not specialising in evocation - is cheesy. It's optimised.

It's semantics, I know, but the words have two completely different meanings.

Edit: Heh. Sanctum Spell. Good times.

While evocation is almost certainly the best school to ban, I'd argue that it's not the worst school to specialize - or at least focused specialize - in. That honor probably goes to divination, which few wizards would drop even if they were allowed to but lacks enough useful spells at each spell level to justify devoting half your slots to it. (Admittedly, most evocation spells have the same problem, but the Spell Compendium provides enough useful force damage and control effects to give a focused evoker something to do in every combat.)

[Eldariel]

Hmm, any way to become undead and still qualify for Beholder Mage? While Tainted Scholar is powerful, managing taint gets old after a while.

Actually, I just remembered Kiss of the Vampire in SC; makes you treated as UD for all spells and effects without actually turning you into one. We can just persist that and be golden.

[PId6]

Actually, I just remembered Kiss of the Vampire in SC; makes you treated as UD for all spells and effects without actually turning you into one. We can just persist that and be golden.

You'll have to be careful that getting dispelled doesn't kill you, but otherwise, yeah, that works. You get the benefit of keeping your Con score too, for yet more metamagic abuse. Fun.

[Eldariel]

You'll have to be careful that getting dispelled doesn't kill you, but otherwise, yeah, that works. You get the benefit of keeping your Con score too, for yet more metamagic abuse. Fun.

Well, you have Supernatural Spell so you could use it on that, I suppose. With extras as Contingencies.

[rgard]

Hi All,

First post here. For a gish-like UM build you could do:

Duskblade 3, Wizard 3, Spellsword 1 (at some point in the build), UM 10, Abjurant Champion 5.

You can vary the levels of Duskblade and Wizard depending on your taste, but I always like Duskblade 3 to get the Arcane Channelling.

The Spellsword level gets you the reduction in ASF, 1 level of spell casting and 1 BAB.

Dandu posted the link to this thread over on ENWorld which led me here. Thank you, Dandu.

Thanks,
Rich

[Mongoose87]

The only problem with an Ultimate Magus in a Gish is that it's going to be very short on HP.

[rgard]

The only problem with an Ultimate Magus in a Gish is that it's going to be very short on HP.

Very true, can't dispute that, but I did use one as the BBEG in one campaign to good effect.

Thanks,
Rich

[dextercorvia]

You will also be short on BAB (+15 at 20). Advancing Duskblade casting doesn't really do anything for you. You just barely get 3rd level Duskblade spells, so you can't really take advantage of the UM's Augmented Casting. You can't channel and full attack in the same round. I think you are trying to do to much with one build.

[rgard]

You will also be short on BAB (+15 at 20). Advancing Duskblade casting doesn't really do anything for you. You just barely get 3rd level Duskblade spells, so you can't really take advantage of the UM's Augmented Casting. You can't channel and full attack in the same round. I think you are trying to do to much with one build.

The +15 BAB is decent though, especially rays with true strike.

Also, any non-full BAB class will reduce the duskblade's BAB. That's a good reason to stay full duskblade, but that's a different discussion probably.

The duskblade spell advancement does give alot of spells so you can augment a fair amount up to your max per day. No duskblade can arcane channel a full attack at less than 13th level which is a draw back of any theurge progression.

I agree there is alot going on and it is not an optimized build. That said, your character will always have something to do.

Been playing the game for many many years. I'm at that point where the character concept will almost always trump optimization. I'm not adverse to trying to accomplish both though.

Thanks,
Rich

[Keld Denar]

The +15 BAB is decent though, especially rays with true strike.

This issue there isn't total To Hit, its the loss of the 4th iterative. One of the advantages of gishy builds is that they either use spells to augement their To Hit high enough that even their 4th iterative has a good chance to hit, or they use something like Wraith Strike to make their attacks touch attacks, which are much easier to hit with. With either of those, you're 4th iterative should hit most of the time, making it VERY worthwhile to have it. That means +16 BAB is the golden number to shoot for for any gish build.

I'm at that point where the character concept will almost always trump optimization. I'm not adverse to trying to accomplish both though.

You're character concept is a gish. That is simple and easy to accomplish with many more well established builds. Concept-wise, there is very little difference between that and something like a Fighter1/Wizard6/Spellsword1/AbjChamp4/SacEx8 or such. Just a guy who casts a fair amount of spells while hitting things hard. Optimization-wise, they are in completely different leagues. Stormwind Fallacy, if there are multiple methods to execute a concept, why not use the strongest (within reason...Practical Optimization only).

[TheMinxTail]

Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5

Qualify for UM using Spontaneous Divination. You end up with full wizard casting, and gain +4 CL from UM along with +5 CL from Archmage.

Come on, that's just Munchkin.

[rgard]

This issue there isn't total To Hit, its the loss of the 4th iterative. One of the advantages of gishy builds is that they either use spells to augement their To Hit high enough that even their 4th iterative has a good chance to hit, or they use something like Wraith Strike to make their attacks touch attacks, which are much easier to hit with. With either of those, you're 4th iterative should hit most of the time, making it VERY worthwhile to have it. That means +16 BAB is the golden number to shoot for for any gish build.



You're character concept is a gish. That is simple and easy to accomplish with many more well established builds. Concept-wise, there is very little difference between that and something like a Fighter1/Wizard6/Spellsword1/AbjChamp4/SacEx8 or such. Just a guy who casts a fair amount of spells while hitting things hard. Optimization-wise, they are in completely different leagues. Stormwind Fallacy, if there are multiple methods to execute a concept, why not use the strongest (within reason...Practical Optimization only).

"Gish-like" was my wording. Sure there are much better ways to build a gish, but this is a UM thread.

Could also call the duskblade/wizard/um a "gish-lite" build if you want.

Been through all those other builds in multiple forums all over the internet.

I just threw in a gish-like UM build.

[PId6]

Come on, that's just Munchkin.

I think my other build further down the page is far more munchkiny than that one.

[anubistheta]

I just wanted to pick the hivemind. There are many ways to treat prepared casting as spontaneous casting, but is there method to treat spontaneous casting as prepared?

I thought I remember some feat, class feature, etc that allowed spontaneous casters to prepare spell(s) with metamagic so that they didn't increase the casting time.

[PId6]

I just wanted to pick the hivemind. There are many ways to treat prepared casting as spontaneous casting, but is there method to treat spontaneous casting as prepared?

I thought I remember some feat, class feature, etc that allowed spontaneous casters to prepare spell(s) with metamagic so that they didn't increase the casting time.

Arcane Preparation. However, that doesn't work with Ultimate Magus since it requires the ability to prepare spells from a spellbook.

[Evil the Cat]

I forget the exact details of this build I used, but I think it was something like this,

Bard 1, Spellthief 1, Wizard 3, UM 2, Wiz Prc 3, Sublime Chord 2, UM 8

Master Spellthief makes all your arcane caster levels stack, so you can always count whichever you want as the lowest. In the end you cast as wizard 17, seeker 9. Ninth level spells from both.

Incantatrix is a fun choice for those 3 prc levels, but it can be basically anything that has full spellcasting advancement.

I'm not sure its the best, but with nobody using Sublime Chord in UM, I had to do something.