Naruto Manga thread (Spoilers)

[Prime32]

Zabuza: "Except me."

Don't be sad, Zabuza.

[Frozen_Feet]

2. What are these secrets of the Sage of the Six paths. And, why does he need Madara's help when he already has Nagato's body?

Remember Orochimaru's original goal - learning every jutsu ever?

The Rikudo Sage repudetly created the ninja world - and is the origin of every jutsu ever.

And, while Kabuto has Nagato, Madara has the real, funtioning Rinnegan, tailed beasts, the weird demon-statue and genes of the First Hokage. It's pretty obvious at this point that Madara has knowledge and resources Nagato did not.

Only one question: do the Japanese have some sort of tradition of cleaning the house before new years? Both Naruto and the Gotei 13 were cleaning for some reason.

Wait... there's a tradition where you don't clean the house before winter vacation? I'm confused. o.O

I do have to wonder what happens if some really major attack, like a souped-up Rasenshuriken, or an Amatseru, or something like that, hits one of the zombies. If you make the pieces small enough, do they stay gone?
Could someone outright disrupt the seals on them like a "jamming signal", potentially breaking the connection and effectively killing the zombie?
One wonders...

This has been answered already. Sai's brother was blown to atoms - he regenerated from thin air. "Pieces small enough" simply does not... cut it.

[Drolyt]

Wait... there's a tradition where you don't clean the house before winter vacation? I'm confused. o.O

I've never heard of such a thing. I put up decorations for Christmas every year, but no special cleaning beyond the norm.

[Callos_DeTerran]

And, while Kabuto has Nagato, Madara has the real, funtioning Rinnegan, tailed beasts, the weird demon-statue and genes of the First Hokage. It's pretty obvious at this point that Madara has knowledge and resources Nagato did not.

Small point, but 'Madara' doesn't have the genes of the First Hokage (in him) nor can he USE the Bijuu when they are in that statue (from every indication shown so far). Which...leaves the Rinnegan and the demon statue which Nagato DID have. Unless you mean resources not always capable of being used in combat, then yes very much so in that case.

This has been answered already. Sai's brother was blown to atoms - he regenerated from thin air. "Pieces small enough" simply does not... cut it.

YYYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!

[Frozen_Feet]

I meant "resources" in a rather broad manner - from jutsu to knowledge to equipment Kabuto does not have, and cannot have through Impure World Resurrection alone. Near-anything pertaining to first Hokage qualifies at this point, for example.

[AgentofOdd]

And, while Kabuto has Nagato, Madara has the real, funtioning Rinnegan, tailed beasts, the weird demon-statue and genes of the First Hokage. It's pretty obvious at this point that Madara has knowledge and resources Nagato did not.

Those are good points, though if I may nitpick, Nagato and the First Hokage are from the same bloodline (both ultimately coming from the Senju clan), and Nagato should be capable of the First's abilities since he can access all six forms of chakra. So, the First's gene's shouldn't matter to him. I'd guess the thing that Kabuto wants now is the unique combination of the Sharingan and the Rinnegan. Or to observe the combo at the very least.

[Drolyt]

Nagato and the First Hokage are from the same bloodline (both ultimately coming from the Senju clan), and Nagato should be capable of the First's abilities since he can access all six forms of chakra. So, the First's gene's shouldn't matter to him.

Not necessarily. Nagato did not display any of the powers of the Sharingan or Wood Release, and it is heavily implied the Sage of the Six Paths had those powers (at the very least he knew the reality warping jutsu). Maybe Nagato doesn't have the complete power of the Sage?

[Frozen_Feet]

To me, it seems Sharingan and Mokuton were creations of the Sage, and the biggest reason Nagato didn't have them was that he didn't live long enough to make them.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Yes, yes you did.

But she's dead. (Breat excuse considering the current Arc, I know ) We never saw her get brought back to life, and she wasn't killing people. She looked liked she was in the middle of Suno. WTH.

[IcarusWings]

To me, it seems Sharingan and Mokuton were creations of the Sage, and the biggest reason Nagato didn't have them was that he didn't live long enough to make them.

I always saw them as the evolution down the line of the sages genes. So the sage himself didn't have them (except mokuton maybe. Cos, you know, all chakra natures), and nor' does Nagato. Just like an ape doesn't have all of our traits despite us evolving from them (not the best example as the Sharingan and Mokuton aren't an improvement on the Rinnegan).

[Fjolnir]

The sage's powers were diluted into his two sons, one got the eyes of the sage (rinnengan, sharingan, etc) and the other got the body of the sage (mokuton, etc) according to the legend. They battled over how best to run the ninja world over and over again (The sage's 2 sons, madara and the first, madara and the fourth, & sasuke and naruto) the theme is repeated over and over again throughout the series...

[IcarusWings]

The sage's powers were diluted into his two sons, one got the eyes of the sage (rinnengan, sharingan, etc) and the other got the body of the sage (mokuton, etc) according to the legend. They battled over how best to run the ninja world over and over again (The sage's 2 sons, madara and the first, madara and the fourth, & sasuke and naruto) the theme is repeated over and over again throughout the series...

This I know, but I always though that his eldest son got the rinnegan, and that eventually devolved into the sharingan and byakugan, which are completely different, rather than the sage had the rinnegan, sharingan and byakugan and only passed down sharingan and byakugan. I don't subscribe to the "Rinnegan can do everything sharingan and byakugan can do, but more" argument. I think they are completely different and their only similarity is that they're doujutsu and that they come from the same source. I don't think Nagato can develop the byakugan or sharingan.

SIDE NOTE: I was never too fond of the Rinnegan as a power. I love Nagato as a character, I just think that a doujutsu (meaning eye techinique) should have something to do with the eyes other than aesthetics! I'd have rathered if the Rinnegan's power was just to animate the dead bodies and share vision between them, and then Nagato could have had the whole all natured chakra thing as a second bloodline.

[Fjolnir]

The rinnengan is the seed, the various other forms of doujutsu are branches or fruit from that tree, basically refinement and specialization vs new tricks. The rinnengan is powerful but without massive amounts of training you can't duplicate the more specialized tricks that the sharingan and byakugan have through careful development and years of recorded history by the clans that the fruit was borne to.

[AgentofOdd]

I recall there is a scroll that could only be read completely if you have both the Rinnegan and the Mangekyo Sharingan. This suggests to me that both eyes existed around the same time. Perhaps the Sharingan is a creation of the Sage, or possible anyone with the Rinnegan can activate the Sharingan.

[Drolyt]

I recall there is a scroll that could only be read completely if you have both the Rinnegan and the Mangekyo Sharingan. This suggests to me that both eye mutations existed around the same time. Maybe one son of the Sage got the Rinnegan and the other son got the Sharingan.

I don't think that's how it works. The scroll can be partially read with the Sharingan, more with the Mangekyo, and yet more with the Rinnegan. It is apparently the source of Madara and Pain's knowledge of the Sage.

[Fjolnir]

The scroll can be read partially by the sharingan, but with the rinnengan you can see the whole thing. It detailed the origins of the tailed beasts and what the sage of the 6 paths did to split the 10tails into the beasts we see in the manga.

As far as the doujutsu techniques are concerned, I always saw it as the reason why they have all these weird effects is that through the eyes, the brain can interpret the world, and doujutsu allows the user's brain to directly influence the world in certain ways. Which is why the sharingan can use a variety of genjutsu, the byakugan can see life and chakra energies to the point that a person can tell a ninja from a civilian with a glance or find hidden explosive tags and the like, the sharingan can do similar tricks but the byakugan does it better. The rinnengan literally allows the user's mind to impose itself upon the world in very real and dangerous ways.

[Lix Lorn]

I see it as the Sharingan and Byakugan hold powers in, but the Rinnegan is the outside sign of a whole host of powers.

[Drolyt]

No, Impure World Resurrection isn't overpowered at all. Seriously, why didn't Orochimaru ever do that? Has Kabuto really surpassed him by that much? Since Kabuto keeps going on about how awesome Oro's powers are, I'm imagining that he must have surpassed Oro in skill but not in raw chakra and power.

[Moonshadow]

I wonder if the celluar level destructive power of the Rasen Shuriken is enough to kill a IWR zombie?

You never know, once Naruto figures out the Rasengan in Beast Mode, that might do it. Deus ex Machina, ho?

[Grumman]

Hehe. Gari's bloodline limit is the

Spoiler

Show

Punch of Kill Everything.

[Drolyt]

I wonder if the celluar level destructive power of the Rasen Shuriken is enough to kill a IWR zombie?

You never know, once Naruto figures out the Rasengan in Beast Mode, that might do it. Deus ex Machina, ho?

No, nothing can destroy them. They regenerate, even from dust. That is the whole point. Kishi going back on that would just be terrible storytelling.

[Trixie]

Blast-element? Scorch-element? Is there a Hamburger-element?

Now, this looks like it should, unlike that Deidara fail

Out of curiosity, what happened there? Controlled zombies summoned their own zombies?

[Grumman]

Blast-element? Scorch-element? Is there a Hamburger-element?

They're two element bloodline limits, like Wood Release is Earth+Water.

Scorch Release is almost certainly Air+Fire. There are a few possibilities for Blast Release.

[Lix Lorn]

The fusion elements *I* came up with are better.

Air+Fire=Ash.

[IcarusWings]

I'd say earth + fire would make ash. Fire + wind should make smoke in my opinion. I think all of the elemental combinations should be...

Fire + Wind = Smoke release
Fire + Earth = Ash release
Fire + Lightning = Laz0r release
Fire + Water = Steam/Boil release
Wind + Earth = Dust release
Wind + Lightning = Storm release
Wind + Water = Ice release
Earth + Lightning = Metal release (Iron Sand magnetism shenanigans)
Earth + Water = Swamp release (I know it's officially Wood, but I don't like that as a combination.)

[Frozen_Feet]

In my opinion, "schorch" is much more sensible combination for "fire + wind" than those posed here. When you fan flames, they burn brighter; "smoke" would suggest more impure burning, which would be exactly the opposite, and "ash" would mean the "fire" part pretty much isn't there.

Besides, powers centered around burning-hot air and dehydration are much more thematic for a desert ninja.

[AgentofOdd]

I wonder, if Kakashi uses his teleport jutsu on the corpses will they regenerate in the battlefield, or in Madara's hideyhole dimension? A corpse in Madara's home would probably destroy Kabuto's and Madara's alliance.

[Prime32]

Blast Release is probably Earth+Fire in a different combination to Lava Release. Or maybe Earth+Earth.

[Kato]

Well.... merry Christmas, ninja alliance. You got an army of zombies who can summon other zombies. How awesome is that?
(Also: Yay, my collection of Swordsmen of the Mist is complete now!)

No, really... so... Kabuto had to let them a bit loose to control so many, did I get this right? And now he shortened some leashes so they won't be bad boys again? make sense, I guess..
Though, how will Asuma&Co be more useful with their personalities intact? depends on how intact I guess, but still... We'll see.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Out of curiosity, what happened there? Controlled zombies summoned their own zombies?

More like Kabuto used them as a point of reference to summon reinforcements to that battlefield, which he may only be able to do with tightened control over their actions (possibly to the point he can have them use skills they otherwise would not have been able to).

And I would say Orochimaru's control was still better. He seemed to have the ratio of 'control/free will' ratio down a bit better, as opposed to Kabuto who's still figuring that out. Part of the reason why he's now just sitting there, focusing on controlling his Edo-zombies completely as opposed to Orochimaru who had the two previous Hokages able to fight more then effectively without him guiding their every action....Which is also probably why he only made three.