Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XXVII: God Has Nothing to do With This

[Palmer]

I get the feeling we're not gonna get an explanation for this memory pit, though I imagine he'll try.

"You fell into a Hellmouth! If you fall in they show you your very unpleasent past."

[Helanna]

("In the Blight he courts death as a suitor courts a maiden")

Holy crap I just read that line like . . . three hours ago.

. . . yeah, that's what I took out of that wall of text! Just joking. I'm really enjoying the commentary on the earlier arcs, when at least Mookie had the excuse of being inexperienced.

This arc is turning out to be boring again, dammit.

[Trazoi]

This arc is turning out to be boring again, dammit.

Yup.

We really didn't need three strips for this amount of flashback. All we've got is Bulgak recapping the raw basics of his character: he's the son of Outrage Chief; he's an infernomancer (duh); and he used to hang out with Stonewater and Grench, the latter he has the hots for. All delivered through Bulgak telling not showing, and missing everything that might be mildly interesting: what happened to Warlord Moustache, how Bulgak became a infernomancer and why he became one (more relevant to showing positive qualities of Bulgak). Sure this might just be the Hell Hole tormenting Bulgak, but it would have been better for the flashback to be more useful to re-establishing Bulgak's character.

[colonelslime]

Yup.

We really didn't need three strips for this amount of flashback. All we've got is Bulgak recapping the raw basics of his character: he's the son of Outrage Chief; he's an infernomancer (duh); and he used to hang out with Stonewater and Grench, the latter he has the hots for. All delivered through Bulgak telling not showing, and missing everything that might be mildly interesting: what happened to Warlord Moustache, how Bulgak became a infernomancer and why he became one (more relevant to showing positive qualities of Bulgak). Sure this might just be the Hell Hole tormenting Bulgak, but it would have been better for the flashback to be more useful to re-establishing Bulgak's character.

I'm wondering how Bulgak met up with Grench and Stonewater. From this, it looks like they (Grench and Bulgak) were just strolling in the Maltak outback when they came upon an injured Stonewater. How exactly did Grench end up with Bulgak, an exiled infernomancer? I'd love to have a little background on that as well.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm wondering how Bulgak met up with Grench and Stonewater. From this, it looks like they (Grench and Bulgak) were just strolling in the Maltak outback when they came upon an injured Stonewater. How exactly did Grench end up with Bulgak, an exiled infernomancer? I'd love to have a little background on that as well.

People stumble into convenient scenes in Maltak all the time. It's practically an established power by this point

What I like about the update is that Bulgak apparently hated Stonewater "more than anyone" (): from the phrasing it looks like Bulgak hated Stonewater for some reason aside from his love of Grench; in-comic, Bulgak has no reason to hate Stonewater aside from his love of Grench.

Delightfully circular! Rather than sound like a cruel twist of fate (which is what the phrasing implies) this is just "Bulgak is creepy" : he just bestows his undying hatred on whomever Grench loves. There's nothing personal; if Grench decided to date Random Orc, Bulgak would be all "oooh! My undying hatred be upon you!" and he'd probably get along just fine with Stonewater.

[Trazoi]

What I like about the update is that Bulgak apparently hated Stonewater "more than anyone" (): from the phrasing it looks like Bulgak hated Stonewater for some reason aside from his love of Grench; in-comic, Bulgak has no reason to hate Stonewater aside from his love of Grench.

Delightfully circular! Rather than sound like a cruel twist of fate (which is what the phrasing implies) this is just "Bulgak is creepy" : he just bestows his undying hatred on whomever Grench loves. There's nothing personal; if Grench decided to date Random Orc, Bulgak would be all "oooh! My undying hatred be upon you!" and he'd probably get along just fine with Stonewater.

Actually, I don't have a problem with this. It's a believable enough reason for a character to harvest an initial dislike to a romantic competitor. Combine that with what Bulgak learned about Stonewater's backstory and how everyone seems to give Stonewater a free pass for it, and there's enough reason for a strong hatred to result. (Being the infernomancer to the demon of poison doesn't hurt in influencing options either).

[Joro]

Referring back to making people viewpoint characters without making them sympathetic, has anyone read Flashman? I've only read the first book, but showing things from Flashy's perspective almost served to make him more despicable than he would've been otherwise. It did a good job of showing how craven and petty the character's motivations were.

[Lillith]

Yup.

We really didn't need three strips for this amount of flashback. All we've got is Bulgak recapping the raw basics of his character: he's the son of Outrage Chief; he's an infernomancer (duh); and he used to hang out with Stonewater and Grench, the latter he has the hots for. All delivered through Bulgak telling not showing, and missing everything that might be mildly interesting: what happened to Warlord Moustache, how Bulgak became a infernomancer and why he became one (more relevant to showing positive qualities of Bulgak). Sure this might just be the Hell Hole tormenting Bulgak, but it would have been better for the flashback to be more useful to re-establishing Bulgak's character.

We need to recap alls of this stuff because Mookie admitted even he forgot what happened in the past of the comic.

Also the title of the newspost makes me facepalm.

Come to think of it there are probably going to be a lot of references to events that transpired during The War In Hell. Good thing it's the latest volume of collected comics available in the SEER'S CATALOG, eh? Am I a marketing genius or what?

The answer is no, I am not.

I would have actually thought a pretty smart marketing strategy. On the other hand I would have been kind of pissed of. Does that mean I reached a point where Mookie can only do wrong in my eyes? Oh my I'm being consumed by my hatred of newsposts.

[Humbug]

We need to recap alls of this stuff because Mookie admitted even he forgot what happened in the past of the comic.

Maybe that's why his characters are so inconsistent and he keeps retconning, because he apparently he forgot what happened just the WEEK BEFORE! (It really happened)

Mookie may have a bad memory, but it doesn't mean his readers are the same as well. It scares me that I can remember alot of details about DD from 5 years ago.

Also, Bulgak telling us that he's a good person, rather than... I don't know, SHOWING us? Whoopee. Seriously Mookie, it's not that hard.

[Gadora]

Maybe that's why his characters are so inconsistent and he keeps retconning, because he apparently he forgot what happened just the WEEK BEFORE! (It really happened)

Mookie may have a bad memory, but it doesn't mean his readers are the same as well. It scares me that I can remember alot of details about DD from 5 years ago.

Also, Bulgak telling us that he's a good person, rather than... I don't know, SHOWING us? Whoopee. Seriously Mookie, it's not that hard.

Who says that Bulgak actually was a good person? I'd think that most people in hell would say they don't deserve to be there. That their actions were justified.

[M84]

Heyall,

Let's just hope we're not meant to take Bulgak's claims of being a good person at face value. I really hope this is just a case of self justifying selfish denial and not Mookie backpedaling on the promise not to have anyone being redeemed in this arc.

If he does backpedal, it will be proof that Mookie really doesn't plan out his arcs at all. At that point, snarking will be as challenging and fun as shooting fish in a barrel. Fish that are already dead.

[Ignition]

So are we going to see what happens when Loxo falls down the plot hole? Or are the guys going to angst some more? Because that's all we've seen in Hell: dudes angsting. I demand equal opportunity angst!

[Trazoi]

Who says that Bulgak actually was a good person? I'd think that most people in hell would say they don't deserve to be there. That their actions were justified.

His statement would be much stronger dramatically if his flashback either supported or refuted it. As far as I can remember, the cause of Bulgak's damnation was also his most selfless act; sacrificing his soul to be an infernomancer in the belief that he could learn how to heal Maltak. Strangely that moment wasn't in the flashback - it was just a bunch of random moments that weren't especially good or evil.

Basically my gripe is that it is a dramatic moment lost. Bulgak's backstory should be interesting what with all the infernomancy and stuff, but we didn't get any of that in the establishing flashback. Instead we got - well nothing really, save that Bulgak still has feelings for Grench.

[Lillith]

Bulgak's past should have been an oppertunity how people actually sell their soul and become an Infernomancer to start with. You know, windowshopping, trying on some different Demon Lord powers, haggling over the price. You know, the fun stuff.

[Wraith]

We need to recap alls of this stuff because Mookie admitted even he forgot what happened in the past of the comic.

If only there were some way of of 'pressing' a 'button' that allowed you to 'see' a comic that has been posted in the 'past'. Like... I don't know, some kind of... webcomic 'archive'?

Darn you, Internets, for depriving Mookie of the one thing that he needs when he needs it the most!

Also: Why should we even care what Orcfernomancer thinks? Bulgak was a minor villain that like he had just received his card in the post. He was vicious, in a predictable 'Evil Vizier' kind of way, though ultimately ineffective

Why should we care about his motivations and retread the tired ground of Grenchka being the single most desirable Orc in the world despite being yet another perky, annoying McGuffin alongside people like Luna? We, as readers, are supposed to be glad that he's dead - not feeling sorry for him because all the brutal murdering he did for spiteful, selfish reason made him a little bit sad when it turned out they hadn't done him any good.

It's almost as if our Snarky theory about Orcs being the One True People in Mookie's eyes is being turned into deliberate canon. Orcs can do no wrong - they always ALWAYS have a justifiable reason for what they do, no matter how depraved it might be.

It doesn't help that Bulgak's plotline - a person of Orcish culture (or lack of, given what we know of them) driven to great evil in the name of protecting himself and his people - is already supposed to be Karnak's back story. Complete with jealous love-rivalry, even. The Hell?

[SaintRidley]

If only there were some way of of 'pressing' a 'button' that allowed you to 'see' a comic that has been posted in the 'past'. Like... I don't know, some kind of... webcomic 'archive'?

Darn you, Internets, for depriving Mookie of the one thing that he needs when he needs it the most!

Also: Why should we even care what Orcfernomancer thinks? Bulgak was a minor villain that like he had just received his card in the post. He was vicious, in a predictable 'Evil Vizier' kind of way, though ultimately ineffective

Why should we care about his motivations and retread the tired ground of Grenchka being the single most desirable Orc in the world despite being yet another perky, annoying McGuffin alongside people like Luna? We, as readers, are supposed to be glad that he's dead - not feeling sorry for him because all the brutal murdering he did for spiteful, selfish reason made him a little bit sad when it turned out they hadn't done him any good.

It's almost as if our Snarky theory about Orcs being the One True People in Mookie's eyes is being turned into deliberate canon. Orcs can do no wrong - they always ALWAYS have a justifiable reason for what they do, no matter how depraved it might be.

It doesn't help that Bulgak's plotline - a person of Orcish culture (or lack of, given what we know of them) driven to great evil in the name of protecting himself and his people - is already supposed to be Karnak's back story. Complete with jealous love-rivalry, even. The Hell?

The difference is that Karnak was apparently good at it.

[M84]

Heyall,

Man, I already miss Loxo. She might very well be the only interesting character in this arc. Then again, maybe that's only because she hasn't had any character focus yet.

OTOH, the "evil manipulative woman" archetype has been done to death already in DD with the various Travoria women, Helixa, Loxo's patron demoness Sirellith, prejutits...

...

Edit:

On another note, would this arc be more interesting if we got a chance to see some of DD's previous antagonists who died without getting their souls exploded in Hell? People like Amelia, the many jocks that DD has killed off, Serk Brakkis, and Urban Eddie.

[guttering flame]

By the way weren't there 2 InfernoOrcsters? One Bulgak infernoorcster and one royal seer inernoorcster (the one that killed Siggie, his father and all those other knights)? They both belonged to demon-lord o' poison, right? Not that that second one made any sense.

[M84]

Heyall,

By the way weren't there 2 InfernoOrcsters? One Bulgak infernoorcster and one royal seer inernoorcster (the one that killed Siggie, his father and all those other knights)? They both belonged to demon-lord o' poison, right? Not that that second one made any sense.

The other one got his soul blown up during the War in Hell. He's not gonna appear again -- unless Mookie forgets. If he does, maybe we'll get to find out his name.

Edit: The second one belonged to the demon of greed.

[Glass Mouse]

Hi guys! I'm back! Did you miss me?

Maybe that's why his characters are so inconsistent and he keeps retconning, because he apparently he forgot what happened just the WEEK BEFORE! (It really happened)

Mookie may have a bad memory, but it doesn't mean his readers are the same as well. It scares me that I can remember alot of details about DD from 5 years ago.

That's actually a pretty common (and very good) advice for new writers: Pay attention to details as if your readers are remembering geniuses, but play out your plot as if they're idiots.
Readers will forget Lord McAntagonist's motivations in a heartbeat, but remember that the hero was greeneyed some hundred pages ago.

[Morty]

It's almost as if our Snarky theory about Orcs being the One True People in Mookie's eyes is being turned into deliberate canon. Orcs can do no wrong - they always ALWAYS have a justifiable reason for what they do, no matter how depraved it might be.

And if they don't have a reason, it's because something Evil - or worse, Callanian - made them do it. It was strongly implied the guy who killed Melna's father did it because of Maltak being "poisoned" by the Evil and Callanian Infernomancers.

[M84]

Heyall,

No kidding. Callan seems to rival the Empire from Star Wars in terms of being an obviously evil regime. Government corruption, rampant racism against non-Callanians, demonic supersoldiers that were promptly hunted down and killed once they were no longer useful...

The only difference is that most people in DD don't seem to care that strongly about it.

[SpekterofDavid]

Aaaaaww I was hoping he would say

"Casandraaaaaaaaaaaa!"

But man is the drawing so bland I only got that it was grench until he yelled her name and waited until my brian remembered who grench was.

[Gez]

So, Bulgak was a creep, of that variety mocked over the 'Net as the "nice guys" -- you know, these guys who pose as your friend in the hope of eventually getting into your pants by establishing some sort of codependent relationship. He wants Grench, but she's in love with another, so hey, the three of them will travel together and be friends, or so it'll appear, even though he hates one of his teammates and lusts after the other, and maybe one day during their adventures Grench and SW will break and he'll naturally be the sole remaining option. But it didn't go as planned, so when he finally snapped he abducted Grench and tried to rape her. I think mind-rape was involved as well.

Of course, like all other guys of his ilk, Bulgak remains persuaded that he is a nice guy. So he doesn't deserve the consequences of his acts.

If Mookie uses this to turn him into a good guy and noble soul, that'll be maybe the most unfortunate of all the implications he has ever shown in DD.

[guttering flame]

Hah! Thank you, guttering flame, you make a good point: I had considered good demons in terms of their potential for bad storytelling, but not evil demons. What's your take on this, or was it expressed in the story?


I'll bite. I'm growing fond of The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis (especially as read by John Cleese). A series of letters from a senior devil to a young tempter on achieving the damnation of a man, it is, perhaps, more of a meditation than a narrative. I find Screwy to be interesting literary evil, as straw-mannish as he gets in letter 10.

There's also the multiplayer strategy game Solium Infernum, a struggle for the throne of Hell. My information is all second-hand as I find it icky, being a practicing-and-well-indeed-in-need-of-practice Christian. The more I learn, the more it seems that this is a case of me being stupid rather than a legitimate grievance.

The game does wonderful things with making its mechanics serve the story: a crusade may be called against Heaven. It cannot succeed. The players know this. Yet they must commit their legions - rare, expensive troops - or be ridiculed and lose all-important prestige. What demented kind of prestige is that? All parties follow an elaborate etiquette: what kinds of offenses are grounds for a vendetta, how long wars may last and when their objectives must be announced, et cetera. I'm told it conveys a sense of barely restrained rage. Every so often, a player breaks the rules, causing all others to descend upon him and tear him apart. The fluff never breaks character. It goes on about the Tyrant of Heaven and the greatness of infernal dukes and princes, but the mechanics make clear that these are dogs fighting for scraps at their master's table.

I haven't read or played either of those, though maybe I'll try Lewis' book. I think I tried to make my opinion clear in my last two posts. I agree with you that the no-bad-guy policy, the misunderstood 'villain' policy, the everyone gets a POV policy have been taken too far. On the other hand I'm not that hot on the whole Evul concept, certainly when it's about people or parallels of them. Characters need depth to be interesting, and evil has conotations that make it unwieldy. The important thing is to have believable characters, preferably with faults and virtues and motivations that make them and their stories interesting. Lewis' demonic characters in your example sound more complex and interesting than the 1-D evulz demons like the one in my snippet-story.

If more people wrote stupid little stories at each other, the net would be a better place.

Sure, why not? (Moookie you have inspired me! )

The Mookie Bedtime Hour Story

Bulgak didn't look back at his pappi. He was 'Departing'. Some Orcies would have called what he was doing departing, but not him. He stared straight ahead with narrowed eyes. Pappi was waiting for him by the Hamecave with his Naughtystick. All his 'other children' were looking. Ominously. From behind. But not him. He couldn't face that. Going Away was the only option.

From now on Bulgak would be the one to look ominously from behind. And this, he saw an Orc. Male he was and One-Toothed (also unconscious). Bulgak Hated him from the start. Words could not describe how much hate was pouring out of him. It wasn't pretty. It coagulated nastily all over his face and neck. But no one helped him out. No one helped HIM!

A girl next to the hateful Orc was holding the Orc up. She was obviously too hairy to notice him lurking ominously from behind. Maybe she liked the O.T. H-Orc. Perhaps even loved him. Could that mean that he must jealously, covetously, ominously... love her too? Obviously, it did!

But wait. Suddenly the female Orc was looking at her, I mean him! It was happening. The unconscious O.T. H-Orc was going to lose The Female before he even knew he had this luscious, toothsome female.

Bulgak tilted her head suggestively. This was her moment to non-ominously shine. Yay! But nay! The infernal cloak she had on was falling over her eyes! It was three sized too big for her.

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!

Finally, fiiiinally, Bulgak managed to break free of her clothes. They've become hard like dried clay from all the hate she sweated into them, QED: they were breakable. But while breaking free might have saved her ('saved' her?), it was too late. The Infernocloak has sucked the life out of Bulgak. It had made her a sexless old Toothless Orc. That meant she was twice as bad as a One-Tooth Orc.

She has become the Grinchka.

The End

Moral of the day: Don't buy swanky overcoat from strangers.

[M84]

Heyall,

So, Bulgak was a creep, of that variety mocked over the 'Net as the "nice guys" -- you know, these guys who pose as your friend in the hope of eventually getting into your pants by establishing some sort of codependent relationship. He wants Grench, but she's in love with another, so hey, the three of them will travel together and be friends, or so it'll appear, even though he hates one of his teammates and lusts after the other, and maybe one day during their adventures Grench and SW will break and he'll naturally be the sole remaining option. But it didn't go as planned, so when he finally snapped he abducted Grench and tried to rape her. I think mind-rape was involved as well.

Of course, like all other guys of his ilk, Bulgak remains persuaded that he is a nice guy. So he doesn't deserve the consequences of his acts.

If Mookie uses this to turn him into a good guy and noble soul, that'll be maybe the most unfortunate of all the implications he has ever shown in DD.

If Mookie does try to do this, someone should send the above to him to show why it would be a really bad idea.

[Lillith]

If Mookie uses this to turn him into a good guy and noble soul, that'll be maybe the most unfortunate of all the implications he has ever shown in DD.

Someone should make a list of all the bad messages he's send in his comic and send it to him so he can blissfully ignore it.

[Wraith]

And if they don't have a reason, it's because something Evil - or worse, Callanian - made them do it.

You say that like there's a difference, in Mookie's mind.

Of course, like all other guys of his ilk, Bulgak remains persuaded that he is a nice guy. So he doesn't deserve the consequences of his acts.

See, this? This, I don't mind. You can write a good story about an Evil character that is convinced that he is a Good guy; even OotS did it with Miko, to refer to the local variant of this Trope.

The problem comes in the fact that Mookie is definitely portraying Bulgak as a good(ish) person. There's no ambiguity and therefore tension in his role, just the plain fact that he's a good person who had to do bad things - and, we can make an educated guess, will probably be justified by further flashbacks that prove how nice he really is compared to the bad things that someone else made him do.

I'd even go so far as to make a bet that Bulgak will eventually blame all his Evil deeds on the influence of his patron Demon. "The Demon controlled my powers," he'd say, "And used them to do what He wanted, not what I wanted". Poor Bulgak.

And then Mookie will never mention this 'puppetry' again, even when Lady Loxo - Infernomancer to the Mistress of Betrayal - backstabs Bulgak (and she will, of course)..

[Oracle_Hunter]

The problem comes in the fact that Mookie is definitely portraying Bulgak as a good(ish) person. There's no ambiguity and therefore tension in his role, just the plain fact that he's a good person who had to do bad things - and, we can make an educated guess, will probably be justified by further flashbacks that prove how nice he really is compared to the bad things that someone else made him do.

In truth, Bulgak isn't yet being portrayed as a Good person - but we all know that's where Mookie is going with it.

A set of fresh eyes reading just this Arc might believe that Bulgak is being set up for a moral revelation - he always thought of himself as a good guy, but he was really just terrible all along; he did everything for selfish reasons and blamed others when things didn't turn out right. Why, Lady Loxo is the perfect foil for this sort of plot as she completely owns her devilry and can easily set Bulgak up for a "we're not so different" scene. After that, Bulgak can either accept his situation and try to go about living his life differently (the redemption approach) or he could reject the revelation and continue damning the light, so to speak (the tragic figure approach).

Ironically, either approach would produce the sort of themes that Mookie is clearly shooting for in this Arc; yet he's such a terrible writer that there's no way he could pull that off - and now he's so lazy he won't even try.

[Morty]

You say that like there's a difference, in Mookie's mind.

Of course there's a difference. Being evil might be forgiven, being Callanian can't - unless you're Dominic or he likes you.