[Steam] Thread XVI: The biggest in-joke in gaming

[onasuma]

Did you finish reading the comic?

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There was a whole lot of leaving people to die there.

[Thrawn183]

So... I don't actually know how to join a specific server. In particular, where do I copy/paste 68.232.183.52:27015?

[The Linker]

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Poor Annie...

Still, I'd wait for Part 4 before we make all our character judgments. End of the narrative and all.

[Jibar]

Did you finish reading the comic?

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There was a whole lot of leaving people to die there.

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The soldiers chose to go back, the doctor just got jumped by what appears to be a hunter and a smoker and they're on a high speed train with at least two tanks behind them.
Bill's a 'nam vet. He knows when you can't save someone and he knows what has to be done to survive. This is a zombie apocalypse, and Zoey should honestly know better. Doubtless still a bit emotional having realised her dad could have lived.
If you stopped that train you'd be dead too. I wouldn't have stopped. Not when I could still save the three people I've survived this whole thing with.

[Science Officer]

So... I don't actually know how to join a specific server. In particular, where do I copy/paste 68.232.183.52:27015?

Somewhere such as Join Server > Favourites > Add a Server > Direct IP

or somesuch.
Within TF2, or in steam's Servers thingy.

[shadow_archmagi]

Yeah, it's pretty clear that there were a ton of infected RIGHT THERE

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

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If you stopped that train you'd be dead too. I wouldn't have stopped. Not when I could still save the three people I've survived this whole thing with.

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Remind me never to be in a zombie apocalypse with you, Jibar. I can assure you that I'd have stopped that train, even if I'd only known that doctor for a short time. If the whole world's gone that much to hell and I, having no real prospect to look forward to, can't risk my life to save someone else, I don't think I'd even bother trying to escape. For me, it would either be go back and at least try to save him, or just give in then and there to the zombies.

[shadow_archmagi]

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Remind me never to be in a zombie apocalypse with you, Jibar. I can assure you that I'd have stopped that train, even if I'd only known that doctor for a short time. If the whole world's gone that much to hell and I, having no real prospect to look forward to, can't risk my life to save someone else, I don't think I'd even bother trying to escape. For me, it would either be go back and at least try to save him, or just give in then and there to the zombies.

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Bill isn't thinking of himself.

He's asking whether it's worth risking Zoey, Louis, and Francis to save one guy.

He's asking whether the dude even CAN be saved; Zoey barely had time to finish saying "SLOW DOWN" before the doc got pounce-smoked.

P.S:
If there's a zombie apocalypse I'm at one of the world's safest places: A university, where all the zombie experts will be!

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[Jibar]

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Remind me never to be in a zombie apocalypse with you, Jibar. I can assure you that I'd have stopped that train, even if I'd only known that doctor for a short time. If the whole world's gone that much to hell and I, having no real prospect to look forward to, can't risk my life to save someone else, I don't think I'd even bother trying to escape. For me, it would either be go back and at least try to save him, or just give in then and there to the zombies.

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There's a difference between stopping to save someone and running to a corpse. The guy was dead meat, completely. Even in the game itself, I wouldn't dare go towards a hunter/smoker pair, knowing there's a horde too.
But saving people, just generally? Do it when you can, you need every hand in the zombie apocalypse. But not when you're on a train, the guy's dead and the most important people are all there.

[Valaqil]

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Remind me never to be in a zombie apocalypse with you, Jibar. I can assure you that I'd have stopped that train, even if I'd only known that doctor for a short time. If the whole world's gone that much to hell and I, having no real prospect to look forward to, can't risk my life to save someone else, I don't think I'd even bother trying to escape. For me, it would either be go back and at least try to save him, or just give in then and there to the zombies.

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I have to agree with Jibar and Shadow. I constantly get incap'd in L4D2. Why? I refuse to leave someone to die unless they tell me to run, or I _know_ they're going to die. But there was no saving that guy. It's not just an issue of morals, which I wholeheartedly support, but also a consideration of prudence/practicality.

[The Linker]

Who else totally thought this smoker had four arms, at first?

Edit: On the Bill morality discussion:

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I don't think he's totally in the right. I mean, he started the train before everyone was on. After Doctor got pounced and smoked, sure, he's gone. But Bill could have prevented that.

Plus, he can't even claim he's completely "leave you behind if you fall behind". He said he'd go back for Francis, Zoey, or Louis. I think this would extend to if they were in the same situation as Doc was -- the so-called lost cause.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Who else totally thought this smoker had four arms, at first?

I actually have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

[Sleverin]

I did think it had four arms at first...you're right!

Since we're talking about silly things here:

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I see no need for hesitation on Bill's part. Being a man who spent his time in a warzone, he knows the risks of battle and he also knows that letting your emotions get a hold of you in the midst of terrible danger is a bad idea. Emotions tend to get you killed, and in a situation where the enemy has no logic or reasoning, it is unreasonable to judge a man based on emotion. The Doc died which is too bad, but Bill did exactly what he said he'd do: fall back and we'll leave you behind. Also with the two soldiers, they chose to go to the rally point, and on top of that, they're a liability. What happens if one of them should turn into a witch or hunter? Or hell, a tank? Non carriers are nothing but liabilities obviously and should be dealt with as such. Also, in game terms when you get to the final wave and you try to board the escape vehicle, what do you do? leave the player behind who was foolish enough to fall far enough behind to get downed. If they didn't want to die, they should keep up next time.

[Fawkes]

For Bill's thought process, go back to part 1.

Zoey. Louis. Francis.

You're safe.

All I ever wanted was for you to be safe.

I'd sacrifice another hundred people to keep you safe.

I'd sacrifice myself.

'Course... that don't mean I'll go down easy.

Aw, hell...

Three of 'em. Three goddamn tanks.

Alright. Maybe I'll have a smoke first.

Hold yer horses...

...I'll be with ya in a minute.

My job's done.

*kaff*

Let's see what you got, you big dumb sons of bitches.

[Phase]

Yeah, I'd do the same as Bill in this situation, especially considering you can't just stop a train and start it right back up like with cars. It'd be suicide.

[onasuma]

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Remind me never to be in a zombie apocalypse with you, Jibar. I can assure you that I'd have stopped that train, even if I'd only known that doctor for a short time. If the whole world's gone that much to hell and I, having no real prospect to look forward to, can't risk my life to save someone else, I don't think I'd even bother trying to escape. For me, it would either be go back and at least try to save him, or just give in then and there to the zombies.

This is how I think Bill should have acted (and hopefully how I would act in the same situation, but who knows under the stress).

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And more importantly, there was a man working on a cure, A DOCTOR, no less and Bill started the train before he was on. I honestly cant think of someone more important in this situation than someone whos analysed the virus, has been studying it AND IS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MEDICALLY TRAINED. Bill is an idiot for not realising that the Doctor was probably the most important person they met.

[shadow_archmagi]

This is how I think Bill should have acted (and hopefully how I would act in the same situation, but who knows under the stress).

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And more importantly, there was a man working on a cure, A DOCTOR, no less and Bill started the train before he was on. I honestly cant think of someone more important in this situation than someone whos analysed the virus, has been studying it AND IS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MEDICALLY TRAINED. Bill is an idiot for not realising that the Doctor was probably the most important person they met.

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As far as I could tell, the 'cure' was a complete failure and just an excuse to not murder all the carriers

[Sleverin]

Yeah, I'd do the same as Bill in this situation, especially considering you can't just stop a train and start it right back up like with cars. It'd be suicide.

^ This. You can't just peel out in a train. A train going at it's average full speed takes about a mile (that's over 5,000 feet) to slow down and stop. If I had a stampede of bloodthirsty animals with what is essentially rabies trying to kill me, screw it, anyone who can't make it gets left to die. You know who dies? Heroes. Letting your friends down to save random people who aren't skilled at saving your ass is a pretty pointless endeavor to me.

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As far as I could tell, the 'cure' was a complete failure and just an excuse to not murder all the carriers

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^ This. The doctor himself said "There is no cure. This virus mutates the more we analyze it. It sometimes is airborne, sometimes it's transferred through bites. Once they find out that there's no cure, they're going to stop trying to save survivors." It may not be word for word, but it's pretty close. Like I said in my above statement, playing hero does nothing but get you killed, and if you let the people you care about down to save random people who don't know how to fight as well as you, why save them? They become nothing more than liabilities. Life isn't fair, better start getting used to it.

[onasuma]

I'm really sorry you have such a jaded view of life. I'd know I'd be happier with myself as a person dieing to save someone than running away without even trying.

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I may have missed that cure bit, can't check now though. If so, he's still a freakin' doctor and one who has more knowledge of the infection than anyone else (still alive). Even if its nothing yet, thats gotta count for something.

[shadow_archmagi]

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Self-Sacrifice is one thing. We've seen Bill has no problem with self sacrifice.

You have to remember that all his friends; EVERYONE HE HAS LEFT is on that train.

Personally, I probably would risk my life to save a stranger. Djinn is right about it not being an apocalypse worth living in if we become that jaded. On the other hand, I would not risk my three closest friends to save a complete stranger.

[Emlyn]

If you remember the dancing TF2 characters from a while back, well then you'll love this. The guy finished the video and it is a must see.

[Fawkes]

I'm really sorry you have such a jaded view of life. I'd know I'd be happier with myself as a person dieing to save someone than running away without even trying.

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I may have missed that cure bit, can't check now though. If so, he's still a freakin' doctor and one who has more knowledge of the infection than anyone else (still alive). Even if its nothing yet, thats gotta count for something.

The thing is, we already know Bill is willing to die to save someone else - he does. He is NOT, however, willing to risk Francis, Louis, or Zoey's lives.

I'm not necessarily saying he was right or wrong, but I understand why he did what he did, and I don't condemn him for it.

The big moral question is, would you endanger your closest friends to save a stranger?

[ShortOne]

If you remember the dancing TF2 characters from a while back, well then you'll love this. The guy finished the video and it is a must see.

That's fantastamazing. I showed it to people who hate TF2 and they started laughing hysterically.

[onasuma]

The thing is, we already know Bill is willing to die to save someone else - he does. He is NOT, however, willing to risk Francis, Louis, or Zoey's lives.

I'm not necessarily saying he was right or wrong, but I understand why he did what he did, and I don't condemn him for it.

The big moral question is, would you endanger your closest friends to save a stranger?

I personally used to see Bill as a hero - the game does a great job of making us think thats who he is. A hero doesn't leave a man to die, in my opinion, and thus my image of Bill is ruined. I don't like the character any more (and call it development or whatever you wish), hes not Bill to me and unless something very dramatic happens in part 4, he won't be again.

[Jahkaivah]

If you remember the dancing TF2 characters from a while back, well then you'll love this. The guy finished the video and it is a must see.

Even ended with YHTBTR music, awesome.

[Byrnbot08]

My thoughts on the comic:

MMMMM, delicious US Military issue Peanut Butter! Now with 60% more lead and cordite!

[Aron Times]

That's fantastamazing. I showed it to people who hate TF2 and they started laughing hysterically.

OMG ROFLMAO OMGWTFBBQ!!!11oneone

[Phase]

I personally used to see Bill as a hero - the game does a great job of making us think thats who he is. A hero doesn't leave a man to die, in my opinion, and thus my image of Bill is ruined. I don't like the character any more (and call it development or whatever you wish), hes not Bill to me and unless something very dramatic happens in part 4, he won't be again.

Bill was, and always will be, a soldier. A soldier knows that sometimes casualties are neccessary to save your own people. Bill is extremely remorseful in this scene, he is forced to not stop a train (already mentioned this) in order to save his own people. There were, like, three humans, five hundred common, two tanks, and god knows how many specials running after that train. Bill wasn't happy about it, but stopping that train would have been suicide, and for who? A couple people who couldn't take off their masks for fear of infection and a doctor who couldn't be saved anyway, what with the Hunter and Smoker.

Bill made a tactical decision, he wasn't happy about it, but it was the only thing to do.

[Valaqil]

If you remember the dancing TF2 characters from a while back, well then you'll love this. The guy finished the video and it is a must see.

I saw something about that float by this morning but didn't realize what it was. Thanks for linking to it. It's good to see the finished project.

Good grief. 4 months to do that? So glad I'm not an animator.

[memnarch]

If you remember the dancing TF2 characters from a while back, well then you'll love this. The guy finished the video and it is a must see.

Soldier's probably the best one there. Hit by demo. Tripped by scout, then had stuff dropped on him by scout. Hits scout with scout's bat. Gonna be back-stabbed real quick by spy.