The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

[Lord Ruby34]

I'd switch the "sometimes in the Blackfens" level with the dragon and bridge encounter.

It's pretty close, time wise, to Vraath Keep, but that's a really memorable and meaningful encounter. Much moreso than some random time in the Blackfens.

I agree. But I'm worried that my party might literally go there immediately after Vraath Keep.

Also, does anyone have any advise for how to use a Koth that got away? My party defeated the other defenders of Vraath Keep, but weren't in any shape to even attempt to pursue Koth as he fled.

[ComaVision]

Also, does anyone have any advise for how to use a Koth that got away? My party defeated the other defenders of Vraath Keep, but weren't in any shape to even attempt to pursue Koth as he fled.

I'd put him at the bridge, and have the force there on guard. It's going to make the fight harder but it only makes sense. Koth might even take the forces at the bridge and attack Vraath Keep, particularly if he didn't have time to take the map with him.

[Lormador]

Koth gets away a lot, actually, given his items.

You could have him lead a bunch of raids and ambushes out of the forest while the party heads out. This could discourage them for heading straight for the bridge.

Shouldn't they be worried about getting encircled or cut off? Put the fear in them.

[Ruthalas]

Hey folks!

Quick question: Does anyone have a stat block already rolled up for the Ghostlord, based on one of three recommended rebuilds?

I am running this campaign as my first foray into GMing, and while I am somewhat experienced, I am a bit daunted by trying to rebuild him completely with classes I am entirely unfamiliar with.

My current plan is to grind through building him as the 'blasting' build, minus the node stuff (if I am unable to find a pre-built stat block for him).

Thanks regardless, this thread has been a great deal of help avoiding pitfalls!

[Fizban]

Here's my rebuild, with Blighter continuing Druid spellcasting and the Fell Drain+Metamagic School Focus combo with an Antilife Shell ready:

Spoiler

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The Ghostlord CR 13

• Male human lich druid 6/blighter 5
• NE Medium undead (augmented humanoid)
• Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +27, Spot +27
• Aura fear (DC 18, 60-ft. Radius, panicked 11 rounds/shaken 1 round)
• Languages Common, Druidic, Halfling, Sylvan
• AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 20; 50% miss 1/day 5 rnds
• hp 77 (11 HD); DR 15/bludgeoning and magic
• Immune cold, electricity, polymorph, undead immunities (MM 317)
• Resist turn resistance +4
• Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +14
• Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
• Melee touch +6 (1d8+5 negative energy, DC 18 Will half, DC 18 Fort save to resist permanent paralysis)
• Base Atk +7; Grp +6
• Special Actions blightfire, contagious touch, undead wild shape (Large) 2/day (5 hours), displacement armor 1/day, speed armor 3/day
• Combat Gear wand of produce flame (25 charges)
• Blighter Spells Prepared (CL 11th)
  5th (1+3/day)—antilife shell (precast), fell drained vortex of teeth, fell drained flame strike, waves of fatigue
  4th (2+2/day)—flame strike (2) (DC 20/22), fell drained produce flame (2)
  3rd (3+2/day)—dispel magic (+10), stinking cloud (2) (DC 18/20), vampiric touch, energy vortex (DC 19/21)
  2nd (4+1/day)—resist energy (precast: fire), owl's wisdom (precast), warp wood (DC17/19),
  1st (5+1/day)— chill touch (2) (DC 16/18), produce flame (2) (1d6+5, 11 min/throws) , ray of enfeeblement (2) (+8 ranged touch, 1d6+5)
  0 (6/day)—detect magic (2), ghost sound (2) (DC 15/17), read magic (2)
• Abilities Str 9, Dex 12, Con —, Int 15, Wis 20, Cha 17
  Feats Craft Wondrous Item, Fell Drain, Spell Focus (Evocation), Metamagic School Focus (Evocation), Natural Spell
  Skills Concentration +17, Handle Animal +17, Hide +7, Knowledge (nature) +18, Listen +27, Move Silently +7, Search +10, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +16, Spot +27, Survival +19 (+21 in natural surroundings)
• Possessions combat gear plus +1 beastskin displacement hide armor of speed, ring of protection +1, ring of animal friendship
• Blightfire (Su) As a standard action, the Ghostlord can unleash a scorching blast of fire, dealing 5d6 points of fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet of the Ghostlord (Reflex DC 20 half ).
• Contagious Touch (Su) choose a disease from Contagion, 1/round for 11 rounds you may inflict it upon a target with a touch attack, useable once per day.
• Undead Wild Shape (Su) As Wild Shape, except that the form assumed is skeletal. Natural armor bonus becomes +1 (Small) or +2 (Medium or Large) and it gains a +2 bonus to Dexterity. As an Alternate Form ability, the Ghostlord retains his undead type, special attacks, and special qualties. The Ghostlord can use this ability twice a day and can assume a Small, Medium, or Large form of up to 11 HD. The Beastskin armor allows you to expend an extra wild shape to have the armor transform with you, retaining all benefits.

Changes: refunded spells to bring him in line with an 11th level druid, swapped feats.

Wild Shape options:
Dire Lion: str 25, dex 15, nat armor +2, claw 1d6, bite 1d8, pounce, rake, 40' speed. Atk bonus +14/+5, adds lich touch on one attack and fell produce flame on all

I also laid down Forbiddance, not alternating every 5' but with a couple gaps for extra damage, and basically told my players he'd kill them so they backed off once they ate Forbiddance damage and realized he just wanted the phylactery back. They could have taken him with some luck and smarts, but one misstep and they'd have kicked the bucket.

[ComaVision]

I never even ended up making a stat block for the Ghostlord, as my group was pretty intent on playing nice with him based solely on the fact he was a lich.

[Ruthalas]

Thank you Fizban! That will be a great help.

I'd prefer my group to talk with him, but I have a zealous paladin that has been trying to convince the group to try and destroy him, so I want to be ready to light them up if they try.

I'm hoping to warn them off with the Forbiddance zones, similar to Fizban.

[Ruthalas]

fell drained produce flame (2)

Hey Fizban, forgive me if this is a silly question, but what does the "(2)" next to some of his spells represent?

I was assuming two concurrent effects when cast, but that seems odd for things like Ghost Sound and Read Magic.

[Eldariel]

Hey Fizban, forgive me if this is a silly question, but what does the "(2)" next to some of his spells represent?

I was assuming two concurrent effects when cast, but that seems odd for things like Ghost Sound and Read Magic.

How many of the spell he has prepared.

[Ruthalas]

Thank you!

[Fizban]

How many of the spell he has prepared.

Yup, I tend to double up on anything important because failure is a thing and the Blighter list doesn't have a huge number of wacky things to pack anyway. Can't say I remember why Ghost Sound has two different DCs though.

[Jordhawkins]

Good day folks,

I realize this is an old thread but I'm looking to run RHOD as part of a solo campaign for a friend and was wondering if I could get some help with adapting the module. He's an over-powered 6th level fighter with access to NPCs of varying classes and levels to help out here and there. I'm trying to avoid adding a bunch of DMPCs to the game.

I recognize that with only a fighter character a lot of the challenges would be significantly beyond his abilities to handle as written but would the module be impossible to run?

Thanks.

[jmax]

I wouldn't call it impossible. The combats may prove quite difficult depending on how you run them, but the module doesn't much assume specific class abilities. Indeed, the module authors sometimes left giant openings for specific class features (i.e. having any member of the party with Druid, Cleric, or Sor/Wiz spells :-P) to eliminate entire challenges. That staff on Ulwai Stormcaller with 6 castings of control weather...

Depending on the power of the NPCs, a straight fighter - even well optimized - may have trouble with some of the flying enemies and being swarmed in general. If you're willing to adjust the combats such that they have fewer enemies, it might work better.

[Horrid]

That'll be really helpful for my campaign! Thank you for the effort! :D

[Lord Ruby34]

My PCs are currently in Rhest and doing rather well for themselves against the defenders there so far, but that got me wondering something. When does the Ghostlord send his undead to join Kharn and the rest of the legion? It makes sense that they would have to be sent before the Battle of Brindol actually starts, and blowing up Skull Gorge wouldn't actually change when that happens. What day did the rest of you decide made sense?

[ComaVision]

What day did the rest of you decide made sense?

I assumed there was communication between the various groups.

[Lord Ruby34]

I assumed there was communication between the various groups.

I'm sure there is, but that doesn't really change anything. The Ghostlord likely wants to be done with his task as soon as possible, which means that he'll send his undead troops to Kharn as soon as he finishes creating them. Ulwai would likely stay to keep an eye on him afterwords, especially if communication from Saarvith has ceased, just to make sure he doesn't turn on the Red Hand if the PCs come by and try the same ploy that she did.

I'm wondering when that day would be. I was thinking thirty, thirty five maybe?

[martixy]

To the experienced folk... I have a question: How would this module stack up against 3 gestalted characters?

Like, any tips on running the module for a high-powered party?

[AslanCross]

To the experienced folk... I have a question: How would this module stack up against 3 gestalted characters?

Like, any tips on running the module for a high-powered party?

Not very well. The module is not optimized at all. I had a 6-man party with somewhat capable optimizers using Tome of Battle, so I had to rebuild a lot of the frontline fighters and boss characters. You can see some of what I did in the campaign journal in my sig.

[ksbsnowowl]

To the experienced folk... I have a question: How would this module stack up against 3 gestalted characters?

Like, any tips on running the module for a high-powered party?

Depends entirely upon their optimization level. If you are talking normal gestalt of two PHB classes, and everyone is built on 25 point buy, then three gestalt characters are going to be about on par with an equally optimized non-gestalt party of 4. But if you start adding in every possible 3.5 class, allowing Abjurant Champion, et al, to be taken on one side of the gestalt, and/or allow their stats to be ridiculously high point buy, then you may well run into problems.

That said, I ran a Gestalt Viking-themed game for many years, going from 1st to 20th level. From levels 6 - 11 I was basically running an adaptation of RHoD, using the basic plot and encounter framework, but altering the monsters to fit a Viking-themed game. I had a party composed of a Barbarian//Beguiler, a Rogue//Wizard, a Druid//Sorcerer, and they started out with a Barbarian//Warlock, but lost him when that player's job schedule changed, and had a Scout//Archivist (?) for a summer as a replacement when my cousin was back from grad school. I also had kept a former player's Druid//Ranger around as an NPC/DMPC, having him take a PrC that was integral to the setting/plot alterations I had made, but he was generally a level lower than the PC's. Every single one of them had stats equal to 36-point buy or better.

Granted, I swapped out every single monster in the module (a "troll-blooded" Tanarukk army with demon support rather than a goblin army with dragon support, etc), so was checking encounter levels along the way, but it worked smashingly. It can be done, but I think just running the monsters as is, straight out of the book, may not really challenge a highly optimized group of gestalt PC's.

* Note on the above game: Basically I was pretty open to using any WotC-published Third Edition source, so long as it generally remained in the theme of a Norse/Celtic world. No Artificers, no monks, no ninjas, etc. The world drew heavily upon Rashemen, so Forgotten Realms stuff was more readily allowed than Eberron stuff. But I didn't allow Tome of Battle or any other subsystems (incarnum, psionics, etc.) Not sure that would have really made a power difference for the PC's, but thought I'd mention it.

Also, when remaking things like the Hobgoblin Clerics into Tanarukk Archivists, I took every advantage of the "non-associated class levels" rules. A Tanarukk Archivist 5 is a CR 4 Outsider with 5d8 +5d6 Hit Dice (plus a Con bonus, after giving them 28 point buy stats) and a Caster Level of 9th thanks to Practiced Spellcaster. Also, a lot of the Trolls my PC's faced were Fiendish Trolls, so they had Fire resistance. Things like that.

[Eldariel]

Not very well. The module is not optimized at all. I had a 6-man party with somewhat capable optimizers using Tome of Battle, so I had to rebuild a lot of the frontline fighters and boss characters. You can see some of what I did in the campaign journal in my sig.

To that end though, rebuilding them can be a lot of fun and the chassis still functions. Certainly, in a high-powered scenario without anything extreme (acquiring higher level spells or such), all the climactic encounters require rebuilding. All the enemies have exploitable weaknesses: it is trivial for a Wizard to walk through the scenario and negate the big non-Dragon threats by targeting their weak save and then touch spelling the Dragons. The enemies have clear built-in weaknesses: Fort for Koth/Ulwai, Will for Saarvith, Ref for Kharn/Azarr Kul. Then the likes of the Hydra/Minotaur/etc. have absolutely nothing going on for them; and the Dragons could afford to be a bit more brutal and interesting,

I personally rebuilt everything. All the 5 dragons (turning Varanthian into a neutral evil White Dragon to suit Tiamat's Lawful Evil tendencies and keeping the 5 Dragons for the 5 heads of Tiamat), all the 5 Wyrmlords, all the rank'n'file (adding some more unit types and reorganizing the Hand, adding some Bards and Marshals as leader units), the bosses (Karkilan as a Minotaur Crusader, Skather as an Unarmed Swordsage) and most of the monsters (e.g. Manticores with Improved Natural Attack for their spikes, and Giants with Brutal Throw for their stones; and Hulking Hurler Ogres and things of that nature).

[martixy]

Amusingly, they do happen to have a ridiculously high stats. I gave them a particularly generous character generation method so they could build monstrous characters(the world is based around that). Their players are clever and know a good option when they spot one, but don't seem eager to optimize beyond that.

The events of RHoD begin at their 4th level technically, but it is conceivable that they'll be 5 by Skullgorge bridge. Though our group doesn't use XP and are a fairly expedient bunch, so the encounters could possibly catch up to their level.

In any case I plan on taking all the advice for buffing up the horde. Besides, RHoD's idea of a "horde" is pitiful anyway.
I think I'll be taking a cue from Eldariel and rebuilding everything.

[pianista]

Hello everybody!
I'm an italian Dungeon Master, the party is now approaching the Skull Gorge.
At first, I want to thanks you that made this awesome post, I'm getting used to read it before every gameday.
I found this site, - fallschaden.blogspot.it/p/red-hand-of-doom.html - where there are some links to GM Screen Additions and Timeline and Victory Points.
Sadly, the links are broken and the creator of the website is not interested in fixing it. Does anyone have those resources?
It would be a big help!
Thank you in advance!

[Antariuk]

Hello everybody!
Does anyone have those resources?

Hey there, I'm the creator

I've looked through every measly backup I have, and I managed to find a hidden copy of the Victory Points table I made (see link below)

As for the GM Screen addons, I can offer you a LibreOffice *.odt file for my revised custom GM Screen, which has all the addons mentioned in the blog and then some. It consists of three A4 pages, aligned horizontally, and has entries for actions in combat, armor class modifiers, object hardness, concentration checks, conditions and their effects, details on the skills I find are most often rolled in the game (Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Perception, Stealth and Survival) plus related stuff like invisibility and scent, and also the combined XP/treasure table. The third page has movement, illumination and detect magic/alignment, but is unfinished - allowing you to fill in things you want or print it as-is and cut out the pieces you care about.

You can find the files here (Dropbox link).

[Elder_Basilisk]

Red Hand and Bova (Brindol) strategy in the runup to the battle of Brindol.

I'm running Red Hand of Doom in Greyhawk. The Elsir Vale is a little more politically unified than it is in the source material (not that it really matters--I'd assume that Lord Jaarmath of Brindol would want to do the same things as Count Jaarmath Bova). The Count of Bova (Brindol in the original) had warning of the Red Hand invasion a few days after the PCs arrived in Drellin's Ferry (thanks to animal messenger spells, etc). The terrain presents a few strategic differences from the original. Rather than being largely wide plains with a few hilly areas between Drellin's Ferry and Bova with a few hills, the Elsir vale is a relatively narrow valley (24-36 miles at its widest points) with a natural barrier at Nimon gap where there is a bridge over the Elsir on the way to Bova. Also, there are foothills and mountains blocking the southern edge of the vale making the dawn way pass over much more hilly and mountainous terrain.

Now, looking at the timeline in the core adventure, it is much slower than an unopposed army simply marching to Brindol. It takes the Red Hand 30 days to cover the roughly 120 miles between Drellin's Ferry and Bova. That's an average of 4 miles per day while an army marching 8 hours per day at speed 20 (medium/heavy armored and/or moderately encumbered infantry and wagons on a good road) should be making 16 miles per day. Now they are taking some time for looting, pillaging, and burning, but that's a pretty dawdling pace if they are really unopposed.

On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense that they would be unopposed. The vale inhabitants should be doing everything in their power to hold up the Red Hand.

But what is in their power? I expect it depends upon what the Red Hand is doing.

I'll start with the following assumptions about the Red Hand.
A. Their flying troops are their primary scouts.
B. 500 odd warg-riders are on a mix of duties but are mainly on foraging and outrider duty.
C. Their infantry is marching in good order but is marching along the Dawn Way and is spread out over a good number of miles.
D. Command elements including Abiathrax and with the main body of the army.

This leaves a number of challenges for the defenders of the vale.
1. Ambushing the scouts would be an ideal way to slow the progress of the Red Hand but without flying troops of their own, it is difficult to ambush the flying scouts.
2. Ambushing the foragers and drawing off reaction forces while forcing the main columns to halt until the battles are sorted out would be ideal but would be challenging to manage.
3. Forcing the Red Hand to draw up its forces for a pitched battle and then retreating in good order without engaging would be ideal since it would take some time for the Red Hand to array its forces for battle and then to get them back into a marching order and start marching. The challenges would be fielding a force sufficient to appear to offer pitched battle and then managing to withdraw in good order, considering the Red Hand's air-mobile forces (especially Abiathrax and the manticores) and that their warg riders more than outnumber the cavalry available to the Vale's defenders.

So how would that play out and how would the vale's defenders delay the oncoming horde?

A few ground rules:
1. Let's try to keep this mid-optimization and avoid Tippyverse style solutions for the Vale defenders or tactics for the Red Hand.
2. Let's assume that there are a few expendable magic items available but not a whole lot of them. If you start tossing multiple scrolls of planar ally or planar binding around, pretty soon you end up in the Tippyverse scenario. Additionally, there's no one currently in the Elsir vale who can make those things so while I think it's credible that the temple of Pelor might have a scroll of planar ally in their vaults for emergencies (like this), they won't be available in significant numbers.
3. The end goal of this exercise is to end up at the default scenario depicted in the battle of Brindol in the base book. So, the Red hand is delayed by 16-20 days total (assume they spend the rest of that time sacking Drellin's Ferry, Terrelton, Nimon Gap, and Talar etc or marching). When they arrive at Brindol, they have lost most of their air-mobile units or had them reduced to ineffectiveness (since the only one they use to good effect in the battle of Brindol is Abiathrax). The warg-riders may or may not have been reduced in effect--they would not be of great use in the battle of Brindol anyway so their absence from the description is not significant. The main body of the Red Hand forces will not have been damaged and their command units will be intact.

Reminder: Red Hand air-mobile forces: 5 Heiracosphynxes, 8 wyverns, 16 manticores, Abiathrax. (In my campaign, Regiatrix and Ozyrrandion both survived so they might be there, but they might not. One or both of them could be stuck in Rhest reconsolidating the Red Hand's influence over the Lizardman tribes and trying to lead them against the Tiri Kitor. Or they could be back at the Fane receiving a well-deserved lashing for their failure to defeat the PCs. Or they could be sent east past Marthon in order to prevent messages from reaching Istivin, keep the Marquessa's standing forces busy chasing them around, and ensure that they do not manage to reach Bova before the Red Hand can take it.)

Observations. All of the Red Hand air-mobile forces are rather dumb (Int 7) and aggressive and probably cannot be relied upon to describe the terrain and enemy forces well, so they probably have hobgoblin riders if they are deployed in a scouting role. That said, none of them appreciate the riders they are likely to have very much (in Pathfinder Bestiary descriptions at least, Heiracosphynxes detest riders and wyverns want powerful riders which most of them won't have unless the Red Hand decides to use its command elements for scouting).

My ideas so far:

1. Destroying the bridge that I added between Nimon Gap and Talar could account for several days' delay. If we assume the Red Hand has to rebuild it, rather than find a ford like they did at Skull gorge, it could easily account for more than 3 days.
2. If the majority of the Red Hand air mobile forces were destroyed or incapacitated previous to the bridge's destruction, it would also be an ideal location to force a sham battle. Bova/Brindol forces assemble like they are going to try to defend the bridge and force the Red Hand to marshal at least a portion of their forces to attack. Destroying the bridge would enable the Bova/Brindol forces to make an orderly withdrawal and refuse battle once it was offered. Tack on an extra day. Abiathrax is powerful but he can't take on the leveled defenders of Bova/Brindol by himself and expect to come out on top (Tredora Goldenbrow, Count Jaarmath, Lars Ulverth, "Baron" Trask, Immerstal the Red, and whatever lions of Bova and/or NPCs from the other towns were there would present the equivalent of a reasonably powerful adventuring party with a good chance of defeating Abiathrax if they were prepared for the eventuality of facing him).

3. Mirage arcana is made for situations like this and Immerstal can cast it or provide scrolls of it. Make it look like there is a castle in the hills that the Red Hand would have to invest or seize? No problem. Make it look like the road goes somewhere else or disguise a ravine or crevasse? No problem. Of course, the limited area and duration mean that whoever casts it probably has to be within 8-10 miles of the Red Hand force since it won't last longer than a day. Since Immerstal is not going to want to be the point of the spear, let's suppose he gives a scroll to someone more apprentice level or sells a scroll to the Count who then gives it to someone like that. Done well cleverly, a few scrolls might add a day or two to the Red Hand's travel time. Perhaps more importantly, once it is established, the way to check for it would require a scout to get within 60 feet in order to use detect magic to check for illusions. That is prime ambush range.

4. So what happened to enable 1 and 2? Posit an apprentice or adept level wizard (1-6) providing a silent image to hide a force including Baron Trask and a dozen Lions of Bova along with a mid-level priest like Brother Derny, Cannoness Leille, or an unnamed cleric from Bova/Brindol. Lure them in with something that appears to be weak and vulnerable and a well prepared force like that could probably kill all the Heiracosphynxes from ambush Heiracosphynxes are dumb and really dislike riders so they are probably the most vulnerable group. The Red Hand response would probably be to deploy heavier forces on the wyverns and manticores (maybe bladebearers and a priest with maybe a war adept or two). Now it's tougher and the Red Hand forces will be more wary.

A. So how to deal with the rest of the scouts? Manticores are scary but could be largely defanged by protection from arrows spells which don't take a very high level wizard and have reasonably long duration. They are also terrible fliers and are likely to crash if damaged making attrition a viable strategy. A moderately sized group of passably skilled mounted archers (or a wizard) should be able to land enough hits to drop one manticore and with protection from arrows could win an archery engagement. Deal with the possibility of flying fireballs from the war adept by spreading out, having a skilled archer ready actions to disrupt his spells, mass resist energy, and/or counterspells. Another potential attrition strategy would be to hand the mid-level wizard a scroll of cloudkill. Even at DC 17, if the manticores were flying in close formation and you caught 3, one manticore would probably die and there's better than a 50/50 shot of killing a war adept flying with them.

B. The wyverns are tougher though. They aren't likely to fall from the sky due to a single hit and they're pretty beastly to fight. Cloudkill won't kill them instantly making it useless against them (though it still has potential against the riders). Short of assembling the entire Lion Guard or all of the hero type characters in the vale, it's hard to see how they might be defeated if they're all together and fighting with bladebearer or war adept riders. If they were split up into groups of four, though, those could probably be dealt with by a smaller group--especially if they didn't have a war adept with them. Maybe a planar ally legion archon, movanic deva, shield archon or bralani azata might kill them though that seems difficult to guarantee. The archons would take a few rounds to kill each wyvern and the bralani is not as durable and might actually lose. A Movanic Deva would handily win a stand-up fight but doesn't have teleport and isn't fast enough to be able to catch and kill all the wyverns if they scattered.

C. Since turnabout is fair play and the Red Hand do have spies in the vale, this suggests another encounter for the players when they're in Bova. The Red Hand might dispatch some devilish assassins to deal with notables like Immerstal, Count Jaarmath, and/or Tredora Goldenbrow. Their resources aren't unlimited and they are prioritizing opening the gate with the resources they do have so it would probably just be a single attempt.

D. If the Red Hand's airborne scouts went down within a couple days, the Red Hand would probably have to switch to using warg-riders for scouting and put infantry on the foraging role which would slow them down. The warg-riders are also more vulnerable to ambush unless they start traveling in force. So this probably slows them down a bit more.

E. Immerstal can scry and fry--even in Pathfinder (because he's physically been to most of the places the Red Hand will be traveling). That's something the Red Hand can't do (since they lack any wizards who can cast teleport), but they can defend against it by simply being tough. Really, I'd prefer that they have a really good defense that means the defenders of the Vale won't try it because this is too much of a tippyverse tactic for my liking. Immerstal can bring 3 allies with him so he'd be the heavy in a party that's probably level 6s and 7s. I don't really think that's good enough to go for a decapitation raid but it might be enough to whittle down some of the Red Hand's spellcasters. One or two rounds in and out. Once or twice, then stop because any more and the Red Hand will figure out a way to have Kharn, Abiathrax, and some other heavies waiting.

Any other thoughts here? I think I'm only to about ten days of delay and I need twenty for the adventure timeline to work. What other heroic things would the defenders of the vale be doing? What else would the Red Hand do to slow themselves down? They could build fortifications every night and tear them down every morning but I don't think that really slows them down that much. I don't think the Romans marched slower for doing that.

[Elder_Basilisk]

On second thought, while taking down the Red Hand's aerial assets is probably the first strategic priority for the defenders of the vale and whittling down their war adepts is probably the second, the first priority of the Red Hand is probably stopping the PCs who are for the defenders what the aerial scouts are to the Red Hand--the part of the force that is simultaneously most exposed and causing the most strategic difficulties. So I think retribution is already baked into the adventure with the marked for death encounter. Still, tossing a planar ally at Immerstal while the PCs are meeting with him is probably a fun time. It turns out that barbed devil fits the bill pretty nicely.

[Elder_Basilisk]

Negotiating with the Ghostlord.

The book basically presents this as an afterthought. The PCs get to the Ghostlord, they hand over the phylactery, and the ghostlord doesn't attack them. That is stupid.

• What guarantee do the PCs have that the lich won't attack them once he has the phylactery?
  What guarantee do they have that he won't attack Brindol/Bova anyway?
  Why are the PCs bringing the phylactery with them anyway?

In particular, bringing the phylactery with them seems like a rather risky means of demonstrating that they actually have it. If they need to negotiate with the ghostlord, then he could just kill them and take it rather than negotiate. Killing a good aligned party that would probably oppose his machinations as soon as the present crisis is over seems like a bonus for the lich. Maybe they could destroy the phylactery while he fought. That would hurt him but wouldn't do the PCs much good. They would be even more likely to lose the battle for having wasted actions destroying the phylactery.

On the other hand, if they don't bring the phylactery with them, what guarantee does the ghostlord have that they won't destroy it anyway? Or that they even have it at all?

It would be possible to bind the PCs with a geas. But the lich technically immune to enchantments like that. It would be possible to call some kind of arbiter to enforce the pact but the problem with that is that any arbiter would have to be something that both the PCs and the ghostlord would fear. And neither party is likely to have the ability to summon something that fits the bill without a scroll of greater planar binding/greater planar ally or gate. The Ghostlord doesn't have something like that and if the PCs could get something like that, they could just use it to destroy the ghostlord straight up.

So, to sum up the possibilities that I see:
1. The PCs bring the phylactery with them
All of these options raise the challenge of enforcement against the Ghostlord. If the phylactery is in front of him, he won't allow it to leave with the PCs. Once he has the phylactery, how do the PCs know he will keep his word?
A. Blind trust. The adventure says it works, right?
B. Obtain an arbiter. Probably requires a plane shift to Mechanus or a similar plan and negotiation for an arbiter. Problem here is that no-one in Bova (likely including the PCs at the point they set out) actually has the ability to cast plane shift since it is Clr 5/Wiz 7.
C. Is there any other enforcement mechanism you can think of?

2. The PCs do not bring the phylactery with them
All of these options raise the challenge of verification. How will the ghostlord know that they have the phylactery?

Most of them also put the ghostlord in the position of needing an enforcement mechanism.
A. The PCs cast a lesser geas on a low level member to return the phylactery after the battle. (7 HD max so most parties will be immune to lesser geas)
B. The PCs bring some scrolls of geas (significant expense and no-one in the vale can make them so it's not clear there are any)
C. The PCs plane shift to Mechanus or the city of brass or something and obtain an arbitrator (typical parties won't be 9th level till after this section--Clr 5/Wiz 7 so it requires casters who don't live in the Vale to make it)
D. The ghostlord demands a hostage or two against the return of the phylactery (Probably the most likely option but it's not going to be good for the person or persons who become the hostage--interesting role-playing possibility).
E. Trust/nonmagical oaths. The word of a paladin or character with similar known code of conduct that categorically excludes deception with significant personal penalties would be a weak enforcement and verification mechanism. A lich can trust the word of a standard paladin more than the paladin can trust the word of a lich but it's not clear that would be enough.
F. There is no offer to return the phylactery. Only a threat to destroy it if the ghostlord supports the Red Hand. This is probably the easiest method because it doesn't require an enforcement mechanism and the Red Hand's interaction with the Ghostlord indicates this kind of strong-arm negotiation might work. But the ghostlord might still demand or attempt to seize hostages.

Any other thoughts on how the PCs or ghostlord could demonstrate that they have the phylactery and/or guarantee that they will abide by the terms of the agreement in Greyhawk under the Pathfinder rules system? (In the Arcanis setting, a Sarishan oath would be perfect for this kind of thing but Greyhawk lore does not have any equivalent rituals that I'm aware of).

[Lord Ruby34]

To answer the ghostlord question above, change the Ghostlord not the rules. If he's not some megalomaniac tyrant bend on conquering the Vale himself just accepting the phylactory back and washing his hands of the whole situation is perfectly in character. The Red Hand is forcing him to help; he's not there willingly.

My question is as follows: When Skather hits Jarmaath the module notes that the Clerics can't cure him because they're out of lessor restorations. In my campaign one of my PCs always has it prepared. What does Jarmaath do when he's cured?

[Elder_Basilisk]

1. In the campaign I'm running, the party has decided how to resolve the issue. They left the phylactery in Bova/Brindol (security--why doesn't the ghostlord just attack them and take it), secured an item that will ensure the ghostlord should be able to scry it (how he knows they're telling the truth), and intend to use a scroll and a superior planar fork (plot device) to go to the City of Brass and pay the lords of the Efreeti to enforce the deal (how they know the Ghostlord won't just attack the city when it is weakened by the Red Hand attack and how the Ghostlord knows he can trust them to hand the phylactery over when they're done).

I like the solution--it adds another interesting side quest and gives the party another day of tasks to fill up the timeline. It also lets them feel like they are really negotiating with the Ghostlord rather than finding an NPC with an exclamation point over his head and clicking "complete quest." What they decide to ask for will have real consequences for the campaign in the future. It also works mostly because I seeded a copy of Notes on the Pyronomicon (of Keraptis) into the campaign before the Red Hand of Doom proper started which can provide proper payment to the Efreeti and an excuse to bypass the normal limits of Plane Shift. Without that, I think it would have been a much more challenging scenario and the best/most enforceable solution would probably have been to not bring the phylactery, and not try to come to an agreement and simply say, "We have the phylactery now, if you or your undead come near Bova/Brindol, we will destroy it." Doing so would almost guarantee that the ghostlord would try to steal the phylactery back at a later date and would provide a thread for some future adventures but it neatly solves the problems of enforcement and means that the only thing the party needs is some way for the Ghostlord to know that they have the phylactery secured somewhere else.

However for other people considering the question, it's not a question of "the rules" can't be resolved by "changing the ghostlord" unless you change him beyond recognition. No matter what you do to the ghostlord, he needs to be a powerful and malevolent individual in order to fill his role in the story. And any time you are dealing with a powerful and malevolent individual, the question, "how can we trust him to keep his side of the bargain?" is going to come up. (Lando didn't think about that when he made a deal with Darth Vader, much to his chagrin. Even average players should consider the question). The default Red Hand of Doom not addressing this question is, quite frankly, stupid. The only reason that it didn't derail the game when I played it initially is that our party never really considered dealing with the Ghostlord and decided to kill him instead.

2. The party packs a lesser restoration, what will Lord Jaarmath do?
A. Nothing of significance. Why? Because, even assuming the party's lesser restoration caster decides to spend three rounds casting lesser restoration while the party is fighting Skather et al, lesser restoration will only cure 1d4 points of strength. At most, Jaarmath is going to get enough strength to spend a full round action to crawl into the temple at five feet per round. The most likely result is that between his armor and his weaponry, he still will not have enough strength to move. And even if he does have enough strength to move, he is not going to be an effective combatant unless he gets either a full restoration spell or 6-8 lesser restoration spells. 6-8 Lesser restoration spells won't happen within the time frame of the battle with Skather and the battle with Kharn et al. And it's unlikely that a party is going to be packing a full restoration spell.

However, if the party is packing a full restoration spell and they use it on Jaarmath and Skather somehow doesn't manage to disrupt the spell by shooting the cleric casting it, then I'd let them have a full strength Jaarmath Bova as an ally in the next fight. Odds are good the party has quite a few other NPCs helping out. What's one more? And if he dies fighting Kharn or something similar, that adds another neat wrinkle to the story as the question of succession for the childless (per the book) Lord Jaarmath gets to be decided under the threat of an opening infernal portal. Nothing says fun adventure like Lady Khaal and High Priestess Goldenbrow, Immerstal the Red, Captain Ulverth, and the other power players try to recruit the PCs to their side and maneuver to ensure a succession outcome favorable to them.

[Elkad]

...Now, looking at the timeline in the core adventure, it is much slower than an unopposed army simply marching to Brindol. It takes the Red Hand 30 days to cover the roughly 120 miles between Drellin's Ferry and Bova. That's an average of 4 miles per day while an army marching 8 hours per day at speed 20 (medium/heavy armored and/or moderately encumbered infantry and wagons on a good road) should be making 16 miles per day. Now they are taking some time for looting, pillaging, and burning, but that's a pretty dawdling pace if they are really unopposed...

I realize I'm late to this, but since the thread floated back up...

Tens of thousands of troops don't walk on the road. Even if they follow the road, they are in columns off it. Which means the whole mess moves at off-road speeds.
Several hundred wagons full of supplies turns every damp spot into a muddy quagmire that tries to eat the last wagons.
Scouts report things, that even if incorrect, pause the whole column, or cause it to deploy from marching order to fighting order.
Patrols and raiding parties are covering far more ground, but the base speed is very low.

10 miles a day is good time for a 20th century infantry division on a long march, and that's supported with trucks on decent roads instead of wagons and building your own bridges at every stream.