[Steam] Thread XVII: /sm_rename "Steam Thread": da]mexitt hr[a vise

[blackfox]

But a good Medic should be able to. Why give any advice about playing at all if you're just going to assume your opponents can't use their weapons?

Because the average person is gonna start out playing in pubs, and the average pub player can't aim the needlegun. IIRC the OP asked for advice for beginners. Admittedly if you're playing on ChHa then most people will be a bit better than average but still, most pubbies can't aim the needlegun well.

[Dogmantra]

Because the average person is gonna start out playing in pubs, and the average pub player can't aim the needlegun. IIRC the OP asked for advice for beginners. Admittedly if you're playing on ChHa then most people will be a bit better than average but still, most pubbies can't aim the needlegun well.

And most pubbies can't use the Shotgun. I fail to see the difference. Being able to use all your weapons is something you should do and you can't give advice assuming that your opponents can't actually use half their class features.

It's a basic rule that you always assume your opponents are competent at everything their class offers because otherwise you'll end up charging the Sniper reasoning "he probably can't quickscope" then getting headshot, or chase the Spy up the stairs thinking that you won't get stairstabbed this time.

[blackfox]

And most pubbies can't use the Shotgun. I fail to see the difference. Being able to use all your weapons is something you should do and you can't give advice assuming that your opponents can't actually use half their class features.

It's a basic rule that you always assume your opponents are competent at everything their class offers because otherwise you'll end up charging the Sniper reasoning "he probably can't quickscope" then getting headshot, or chase the Spy up the stairs thinking that you won't get stairstabbed this time.

This works with skilled pubbies/comp play. If you're just starting out then people just aren't going to remember a whole list of things all at the same time until they've got the most basic things at an intuitive level. So tell them the most basic things first and then once they've got those down then they can start paying attention to stairstabs and headshots. Beginners wouldn't have been able to avoid those things anyways. That's really all there is to say on the matter.

[Worira]

"Even slightly competent medics with the bluts will kill you if you charge straight at them" is pretty valuable for new Pyros to learn. They're pretty much the one class most vulnerable to needles.

[mightymonarch]

"Even slightly competent medics with the bluts will kill you if you charge straight at them" is pretty valuable for new Pyros to learn. They're pretty much the one class most vulnerable to needles.

If I had a dollar for every Pyro that's charged straight at me...

[Jahkaivah]

Best trick when pursuing a backpeddling medic as Pyro is to airblast them off-course into a wall, then they are open to axetinguisher/further burning.

[blackfox]

Best trick when pursuing a backpeddling medic as Pyro is to airblast them off-course into a wall, then they are open to axetinguisher/further burning.

You already think that the best thing to do as Pyro is W+M2.

[MamaLuigi]

"Even slightly competent medics with the bluts will kill you if you charge straight at them" is pretty valuable for new Pyros to learn. They're pretty much the one class most vulnerable to needles.

If I had a dollar for every pyro that charged at me.

Just replace the blut with a shotgun.

[ShortOne]

If I had a dollar for every Pyro that's charged straight at me...

I just want to toast you with my nice, warm flames...

[Sammiches]

If I had a dollar for every pyro that charged at me.

Just replace the blut with a shotgun.

Not charging in a straight line was the first lesson I ever learned playing pyro. Fortunately, there are plenty of pubbies who never picked it up, and are more than happy to be minigun fodder.

[Worira]

So, Fawkes and I were talking about Urban Dead, when the subject started to drift to the subject of a different, sadly non-existent type of game (and by "started to drift" I mean "was abruptly dragged").

Spoiler

Show

Worira: Oh man I just remembered how boring this game is
Worira: And how I don't know pretty much anyone in the thread
ELECTRIC FAWKES: heh
Worira: And how nothing I do actually makes any difference
Worira: I guess I'll go try to maul you lot.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: k
ELECTRIC FAWKES: have fun
Worira: I might also not bother
Worira: Because meh
Worira: Makes me want a properly-done zombie MMO, though.
Worira: With, like, gameplay and stuff.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yeah, thatd be pretty sweet
ELECTRIC FAWKES: sort of like dead rising with mmo
Worira: Yeah.
Worira: HArd to balance, though.
Worira: Might be easier as a moderately large FPS.
Worira: Like, 64 players per server, most commons, then a few specials and survivors.
Worira: You'd need a way for playing a common to not be incredibly boring, though.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: Maybe go the L4D approach where commons are AI and players control special zombies.
Worira: But then you've just got L4d.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: but BIGGER
Worira: Hmm.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: it sounds more impressive when you see the hand motions
ELECTRIC FAWKES: BIGGEr
ELECTRIC FAWKES: *motions*
Worira: Commons and unorganized civilians could act as mobs, with specials and survivors being PCs.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: makes sense
Worira: You wouldn't want the same emphasis on incapacitation as in L4D, though. You might have special zombies who specialize in debuffing survivors, but you wouldn't have caught=dead.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yeah, definitely
ELECTRIC FAWKES: also more focus on using whatever weapon uou can get your hands on, like dead rising
Worira: Yeah. If it uses levels, higher levels would be where you'd start bringing in guns.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: maybe you can always use guns, but beginner accuracy is piss poor
ELECTRIC FAWKES: leveling improves accuracy, reload speed, what have you
Worira: Starting zombies would be basically commons, and starting survivors would have, like, a stick.Or have terrible accuracy.
Worira: I like the "get better at guns" idea.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: maybe guns are relatively hard to find
ELECTRIC FAWKES: ammo too
Worira: Yeah. Not tied directly to level, but you want a high-level character to have the ammo.
Worira: Melee combat would have an option to get better at it, but would normally stay about the same.
Worira: Left 4 World of Borderlands
ELECTRIC FAWKES: heh
ELECTRIC FAWKES: maybe scavenging skills improve?
ELECTRIC FAWKES: and they can find larger amounts of ammo in stashes?
Worira: That would make sense.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: fallout 3 had something like that
ELECTRIC FAWKES: a perk that made you get more ammo whenever you found some
Worira: And you could focus on being a lightly-armed scavenger, or have better gun skills, but trouble finding ammo for them.
Worira: And not have a skill progression that ramps too sharply, so you don't force people to despecialize.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yeah
Worira: You'd want a very strong focus on PvP, though. And having places that are just totally safe forever would be frustrating to the zombies.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: Ideally, there would be some sort of fortifications
Worira: Yeah.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: something that wouyld provide relative safety
Worira: And that would prevent one zombie pulling an all-nighter and tearing it down.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yeah
ELECTRIC FAWKES: but that would require some sort of upkeep
Worira: Resources that had to be scavenged
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yesss
ELECTRIC FAWKES: and your barricade skill can be improved over time
Worira: Yeah.
Worira: And at high levels, you'd basically have professional military fortifications.
Worira: But you'd draw in stronger zombies to get at the delicious survivor-meat.
Worira: Because obviously killing tougher survivors would be worth more, just like killing more powerful zombies.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: makes sense
ELECTRIC FAWKES: so maybe zombies start off as common types, but learn skills and abilities to make them more specially
Worira: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Worira: So a very high-level direct fighter zombie basically ends up a tank
ELECTRIC FAWKES: yeah
ELECTRIC FAWKES: but you could instead choose to buff up their speed
ELECTRIC FAWKES: maybe give them a pounce attack and increase their jump
ELECTRIC FAWKES: or learn a long-distance attack
ELECTRIC FAWKES: and slowly increase its range and damage
ELECTRIC FAWKES: man this would be an awesome game
Worira: Indeed.
Worira: I think I'll post this in the steam thread.
ELECTRIC FAWKES: heh
Worira: Left 4 World of Urban Dead Rising
ELECTRIC FAWKES: I'd play it.

[MoelVermillion]

Yeah I'd play that zombie apocalypses only get better with scale. I think that levelling the zombies is up is a cool mechanic as if done right the survivors might never know what each player controlled zombie is capable of until they were already fighting him.

A conversation line you guys had got me thinking about an idea for a little bit of a different large scale multi-player zombie game:

ELECTRIC FAWKES: maybe guns are relatively hard to find
ELECTRIC FAWKES: ammo too

Throw on some health packs and maybe a food system on to that list of hard to find things and suddenly you don't even need player controlled zombies. Seriously just NPC zombies and the players are forced to fight amongst each other for resources, they build shakey alliances are formed between survivors as they work together to ambush other groups and kill them for their supplies, but when it comes time to divvy the goods... Paranoia would run high and you'd never know who to trust, even the guy who'd been your ally all game could potentially turn when between the two of you there's only enough supplies to keep one of you going. I would play the hell out of that.

[tarbrush]

If I had a dollar for every Pyro that's charged straight at me...

I still wouldn't be able to spend it cause there's inevitably a scout behind me who can't believe his luck.

[shadow_archmagi]

I still wouldn't be able to spend it cause there's inevitably a scout behind me who can't believe his luck.

Oh god so true.

Pyros are so distracting.

[Volatar]

I am now streaming live! Playing some X-Com and listening to good music.

Click here to watch

EDIT: Thats all for now folks.

[Dogmantra]

I still wouldn't be able to spend it cause there's inevitably a scout behind me who can't believe his luck.

Also the dollar is worth like 10p OH SNAP.

[Valaqil]

Right now it appears to be trading at ~62p. Frakkin' economy...

[The Linker]

Thinking about doing a Descent LP. Sound vaguely interesting to anyone? Could be fun.

Um... Steam... related... things go here. TF2 and some variation on the Spy meme.

[shadow_archmagi]

The man on the hill

Spoiler

Show

Round after round,
Alone on a hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see that he's just a brit,
And he never gives an answer,

But the man on the hill,
Sees the clock ticking down,
And the jars of his pee,
Show the spy running 'round.

Well on the way,
Cart on a hill,
The man of a thousand bullets flying perfectly true
But nobody ever sees him,
or the kill he appears to make,
and he never seems to notice,

But the man on the hill,
Sees the clock ticking down,
And the jars of his pee,
Show the spy running 'round.

And nobody seems to like him,
they can tell what he wants to do,
and he never shows his feelings,

But the man on the hill,
Sees the clock ticking down,
And the jars of his pee,
Show the spy running 'round.

Ooh, ooh,
Round and round and round.

And he never listens to them,
He knows that they're the spies
They don't like him,

But the man on the hill,
Sees the clock ticking down,
And the jars of his pee,
Show the spy running 'round.

Ooh,
Round and round and round

[Byrnbot08]

I still wouldn't be able to spend it cause there's inevitably a scout behind me who can't believe his luck.

Tarbrush, I like your kitteh avatar. We need cat hats in TF2.

They would be, AWESOME because of this:

Soldier: If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
Cat on Solly's head: Mew!

Best killcam picture ever.

[Volatar]

Streaming X-Com was fun. Thanks for all those who showed up. I will probably continue from where we left off at 9am EST Friday.

[Valaqil]

Tarbrush, I like your kitteh avatar. We need cat hats in TF2.

They would be, AWESOME because of this:

Soldier: If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
Cat on Solly's head: Mew!

Best killcam picture ever.

Might be even better paired with one of the "hippie" lines.

[shadow_archmagi]

Streaming X-Com was fun. Thanks for all those who showed up. I will probably continue from where we left off at 9am EST Friday.

I bet streaming x-com is fun.

But you know what I enjoy? Streaming movies based off books by Terry Pratchett! I'll be doing that on Friday! Not that that will interfere; I havn't quite worked out whether I'll be streaming at 9 or 6 pm but either way it definitely won't overlap with your stream!

I just wanted to remind everyone!

[tarbrush]

Kitteh courtesy of Sinfest.

And yes, a cat hat would be awesome. I now want one.

[Volatar]

blah blah streaming blah blah blah TERRY PRATCHETT blah blah

TERRY PRATCHETT!

Even if my stream was still going, when yours started I would shut it off and send everyone to you, and go to see the movie myself.

TERRY PRATCHETT!

I'll be there.

...
.....
.......
.........TERRY PRATCHETT!

[Cogwheel]

Conflabbit, I won't be around then. That's.. early saturday morning, here in Japan. Nope, not going to happen.

Ah well. Have fun

[Byrnbot08]

I bet streaming x-com is fun.

But you know what I enjoy? Streaming movies based off books by Terry Pratchett! I'll be doing that on Friday! Not that that will interfere; I havn't quite worked out whether I'll be streaming at 9 or 6 pm but either way it definitely won't overlap with your stream!

I just wanted to remind everyone!

Stupid timezones.

Earth needs to be flat I say. Then Sun will be all over us like Spies to teleporter exits.

In any case, cannae attend. So annoyed.

[Sammiches]

Stupid timezones.

Earth needs to be flat I say. Then Sun will be all over us like Spies to teleporter exits.

In any case, cannae attend. So annoyed.

But the rotisserie cooking is what gives earth that crispy outer layer we all love so much!

[shadow_archmagi]

Upcoming films:

GOING POSTAL
THE ROOM
HOGFATHER
SCOTT PILGRIM
COLOUR OF MAGIC


QUERY: The Terry Pratchett Movies are all extremely long. Would you guys prefer to have them shown in two segments and thus take up twice as much time?

[chiasaur11]

But the rotisserie cooking is what gives earth that crispy outer layer we all love so much!

But flat could be carried by elephants on the back of a turtle!

Edit: Scott Pilgrim?

Man. I could watch that for a thousand years.

Five thousand years.