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2010-12-16, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
You won't always have the spell that an enemy is weak against. And if you do, it requires you to use up your precious spell slots to have a variety of elemental types. Comet does more damage, hits all targets, AND hits 1d6 times. There is no way a T3 black magic spell is going to do more damage than that, even with weaknesses in play.
And black mages do get Ultima. so yeah.
I was trying to play an interesting character. I wanted to make a swordmage, but that turned into a black mage using Into the Fray and basically the same as the time mage.
To make a thief uberpwn, just take feint and then assassin's kiss ten times.
Feint to lower EVA to zero and then add on 10 to the damage tier of whatever weapon you're using.
And I don't see how 45 eva is a good reward for freelancers. Because then they essentially can't get hit. I bet there are a lot of overpowered combinations that can be generated with a freelancer.Check out the Final Fantasy d6 System by Dust.
Tophat imp avatar by Darwin. (Imps are DEVILS not demons)
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2010-12-16, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I thought this entire discussion was balancing the classes.
And I'm also replying to Creed on combat thieves.
I think the easiest way to balance a lot of the classes is to make none of the skills be able to be taken multiple times.
But I think that might make improbable weapons completely useless.
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2010-12-16, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-17, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Enormous post incoming!
You might notice my tone being a little different in this post than the others; I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's just that this is the very first time I've read a suggestion/argument and didn't either agree or disagree with it outright. A lot of this thread has been 'yup, definitely needs a fix, good catch' - these are some of the very first issues that I'm not entirely certain I understand.
Here's an easy starting point. I agree.
It's certainly something I need to consider. It seems like the common mindset is to stack the same ability over and over in order to increase your effective weapon tier and nothing else, and then simply attack every round until things fall over. Whether effective or not, this makes for an un-fun build to actually play over the course of many months and needs to be remedied in some fashion.
So let's talk about Time Mages and Black Mages.
During the design process, we sat down and chatted about how these two different Jobs should function. You have to admit that they're awkwardly similar; in the end, I proposed that they should both be offensive casters with different styles. Black Mages have 'debuffing' capabilities as their sort of secondary role, dropping status effects and whatnot. They deal the most damage when they can exploit their enemies' elemental weaknesses. Time Mages have 'buffing' as their secondary function - as mentioned, Haste is ridiculous good for standard-action-reliant characters - and are almost exclusively nonelemental damage. Nothing is resistant to it, but nothing is weak to it either.
So in short, we wanted them to be on par; sometimes Black Mages would be the ideal caster, sometimes Time. I don't like to think of Black Mages having to 'optimize to compete,' but I certainly agree that they need to have forethought and planning where a Time Mage can simply chuck spells out and be effective.
Comet, as I mentioned way back a few pages ago, should definitely NOT be an (INT x 7) spell. I mean, you can compare that to Shockwave Pulsar and realize something is seriously wrong here. If I recall correctly, the intent was for it to be an (INT x 5). I suspect I'll also be kicking it down to 1d4 meteorites in the next update instead of 1d6. (Or something; I don't want to start introducing other polygonal dice. Blugh! ) Some quick math, then, to support that numerical change.
A Time Mage and a Black Mage find themselves in combat with several enemies; let's say 4. They're both level 14, so the Black Mage has two different rank 3 spells where the Time Mage only has Comet. They both have exactly 25 INT, and let's say, to prevent interruptions and whatnot, they each have Auto-Haste on their equipment. The enemies have 30 magic armor.
Time Mage casts Comet and rolls exactly average, resulting in about 204 points of damage to all enemies. The Black Mage uses Thundaga, dealing 166 damage to each. The damage difference is not enormous, but certainly superior. And without elemental weaknesses and damage-increasing abilities coming into play, nonelemental spells will always beat elemental spells for pure raw damage. On a perfect roll and the maximum of 4 meteorites, the Time Mage does a whopping 408 points of damage. With an elemental weakness, the Black Mage deals 425. A Black Mage who has bonus damage from Elemental Enhancer or abilities will just keep widening the gap.
I have to confess, I'm not certain I see the issues as they stand with Telekinesis/Mind over Matter. You'll have to spell it out for me.
This is another example you'll have to explain to me. I don't see the significance. One is an x30 spell to a single enemy, but with varying elemental types. One is x25 to all enemies. I don't know if I'd be able to say one has a clear advantage over the other.
I'm not sure I understand the relevancy of this statement.Last edited by Dust; 2010-12-17 at 01:26 PM.
- Final Fantasy d6 --- Building a Villain --
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2010-12-17, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-17, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Only applying to certain abilities of course. I think some abilities can be taken multiple times if it isn't stacking, but allowing the ability to be applied more often (mutate being an okay example).
So in short, we wanted them to be on par; sometimes Black Mages would be the ideal caster, sometimes Time. I don't like to think of Black Mages having to 'optimize to compete,' but I certainly agree that they need to have forethought and planning where a Time Mage can simply chuck spells out and be effective.
Comet, as I mentioned way back a few pages ago, should definitely NOT be an (INT x 7) spell. I mean, you can compare that to Shockwave Pulsar and realize something is seriously wrong here. If I recall correctly, the intent was for it to be an (INT x 5). I suspect I'll also be kicking it down to 1d4 meteorites in the next update instead of 1d6. Some quick math, then, to support that numerical change.
I have to confess, I'm not certain I see the issues as they stand with Telekinesis/Mind over Matter. You'll have to spell it out for me.
This is another example you'll have to explain to me. I don't see the significance. One is an x30 spell to a single enemy, but with varying elemental types. One is x25 to all enemies. I don't know if I'd be able to say one has a clear advantage over the other.
Now look at Meteo compared to the black mage's 5th level Scathe. Scathe does 16xINT shadow damage (the only type that can't be improved by a BM's ability - and is more difficult to enhance than the regular elements) while Meteo does a whopping 25xINT damage. If that's not enough, Meteo even costs less MP.
I'm not sure I understand the relevancy of this statement.
I don't know, time mages just seem like... they were put in last minute or something. Errors in the spell descriptions (Comet, Meteorite) and not having a legendary accessory doesn't help. I mean, I know they were in since the beta, but they just seem to have the most problems right now.
As awesome as Dust is, I'm still going to do all I can to point out what I think are flaws in the system in order to improve it.Last edited by Mecharious; 2010-12-17 at 11:00 AM.
Check out the Final Fantasy d6 System by Dust.
Tophat imp avatar by Darwin. (Imps are DEVILS not demons)
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2010-12-17, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Just for people's general information, the pbp game I am running for this system has had one player drop out due to RL issues, and one player just not post at all since it started. Meaning that, if anyone still wants to join in a game, we have two free places. If you're interested, post a character sheet in the OOC thread and we'll work you in as soon as possible.
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2010-12-17, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Maybe 1d3 for comet. That way you can stick to a d6. Also can the stacked deck ability be used for the coin flip? Cause we use a d2(forum RP) and well it doesn't say you CAN'T do it if you use dice.
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2010-12-17, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I get the feeling that using a coin was intentionally put there to prevent dice-rerolling abilities from affecting it.
Check out the Final Fantasy d6 System by Dust.
Tophat imp avatar by Darwin. (Imps are DEVILS not demons)
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2010-12-18, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Excalibur is listed as a "Tier 8 Sword."
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2010-12-18, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-19, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Dust, thank you for putting in the time and effort required to put together this RPG system. I've already gotten one of my friends who loves FF but was reluctant about tabletop RPGs hooked on it. I love the section that gives advice on how to adapt the core rules to the worlds for different games. I also like the encouragement of descriptive combat. I've always found the "I full attack. I full attack. I full attack." combat that happens in D&D often to be pretty boring. So far, the balance issues seem extremely small in comparison to the imbalance that exists in some other systems *cough*3.5*cough*. You have created a very fun to play, easy to use and learn system that gives a great Final Fantasy feel, but that I'm definitely going to use for homebrew settings.
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2010-12-19, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Check out the Final Fantasy d6 System by Dust.
Tophat imp avatar by Darwin. (Imps are DEVILS not demons)
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2010-12-19, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
<.< I almost decided to make a random weapon generation table. Should I try?
Did it. You roll 1d6. For near the start just flip a coin. If your a bit farther just roll and have 1 and 2 be 1, 3 and 4 be 2, ect, ect. That is the tier. Then the gm picks 12 random abilities for the tier of it. The guy then rolls 2 d6. A result of 1 on the first one gives you a result of 1.
Get it?Last edited by wiimanclassic; 2010-12-19 at 05:21 PM.
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2010-12-20, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Found a typo in the limit breaks section.
Random Target (1 or 3 Point Refund) The attack is chaotic in nature and cannot be completely controlled. For the 1 point refund, the technique targets a random enemy (or ally, if the limit break is beneficial). For the 5-point refund the target is completely random, and may be either an enemy or a friend. If combined with Area Effect, the limit break targets a random Group.
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2010-12-20, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I've got a quick question about the Cheat Fate ability that Gamblers have. Going off it's description, I gather it can be used multiple times in succession, as long as the player has good luck/available Destiny.
I've also got a (Probably silly) question about limit breaks. As long as it's multiple characters using them, then multiple ones can be used in the same round, correct?
If so, I think I've found a way to overkill Chaos in a Single Round. Now I'm sure theres other ways, but mine takes a Monk with High STR and DEX, along with 7 Improved Arsenal abilities, a Tier 8 Brawl Weapon that has Piercing, Break Damage Limit and Holy attributes, and to top it off, a 3rd rank Limit Break that has Attack(Phys) and Multi-Attackx4.
They also need to be in a party that has a member with a limit break that has 28 points spent on Stylish, and maybe a Gambler with a bunch of luck/Destiny points to back up their attack rolls.
The strategy would be to have the Stylish limit break go off first, then followed up by the Monk's limit break, then if required the Gambler could Cheat Fate to make the attacks hit (Up to the point where he runs out of Destiny), which would result in a total of (If I've done all the calculations correctly):
5 (Attacks) x 2 (Weakness: Holy) x ( STRx2(No Armour Dual Wield bonus) x 21 (Tier 8 + 13) + 2d6)
so totalled up it would hit for 10x(STRx42+2d6) damage, which calculated off a str of 27 (The final result of my piddly HP focused monk) would hit at least 11k damage
Now that I think about it though, I guess this would follow the note that it would require perfect planning from the party to execute, as getting everyone to survive long enough and have the necessary things to do it would be difficult as hell, especially 'cause the GM's have the say in what effects would be on Legendary weapons.
I think I need to go do something else now, I've been too focused on this system for the past few days, though i have to admit it has been fun trying to see how to kill Chaos before he can pull off his limit break.
But before I go, one question i forgot. I guess VIT boosting equipment still counts towards a character's HP limit? This may be a silly question, but it doesn't say in this edition if it does or doesn't.
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2010-12-20, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2010-12-23, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
WELLLLL thanks. That means a lot to me.
It's certainly something that needs to be changed, but I admit I haven't, er, gotten around to it yet. I suspect your solution is probably the best one.
Correct.
That's pretty awesome and I gotta say, I'm impressed by the thought exercise. The only real flaw is that a Gambler wouldn't be able to support too much since you can only use Cheat Fate once per session - as with all Epic Abilities, mentioned on the first page of the job descriptions. An Entertainer would be wiser.
I honestly hadn't really sat down and looked at Monks with Martial Arts/Arsenal - that's going to have to be another thing that needs to get tweaked! But I'm pretty sure you win the award for the first theoretical Chaos kill - and bonus points for style, since it involves a Monk swinging a magically-blessed fifty-story building around.
It does. Recalculate your health whenever your VIT changes. VIT from armor is a temporary boost then, at best.- Final Fantasy d6 --- Building a Villain --
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2010-12-25, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I've got a question about the Weapon of Choice Entertainer Job Ability. What's the max range on the damage? Do I have to be in striking distance of the enemy to damage it, or can I be at a Medium distance?
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2010-12-26, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Can I have some explanation about Power Cord Entertainer ability, I just dont understand it.
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2010-12-27, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
So uh on another forum I'm working on a home brew setting for this. Things are moving slowly and it will most likely stink.
Anyone want updates on how it goes?
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2010-12-28, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I'll try to explain it to you.
First, Power Cord is done as a slow action, which basicly means you start it one turn, and it happens at the start of your next turn if you are not interrupted.
Second, you roll to attack. If you succeed, than it is like you hit all of the enemies with nonelemental M. ARM. damage. The amount of damage is essentially the same as your normal attack, so for a tier 2 weapon it'd be (2 x relevant statistic) + 2d6. After that, the enemies are thrown back to a medium distance, and they are seperated from their weapons.
Finally, each of the enemies has both an ARM score and a M.ARM score of 0 until their next turn, which should cause a nice increase in damage for the rest of your team.
Is there anything particularly confusing about that?
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2010-12-28, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-28, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
All my details for the game are on my laptop which is a three hour train journey away. Sorry for not posting anything but I'm not having the best time at the moment irl and couldn't motivate myself (worlds longest breakup & mega family arguments). If you still want to play when I get back then I'll be pleased but if not I understand why.
In future if you could PM this stuff I'd appreciate it.Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-12-28, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-28, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
- Final Fantasy d6 --- Building a Villain --
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2010-12-29, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Tell me, Dust, what program did you use to create the .pdf for this game?
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2010-12-29, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Ok the plot of an FF4 game is going slowly. Haven't even gotten to the first boss.
On the other hand the world building project is going ok.
Maybe we should make a sig addon for this to help advertise it.Last edited by wiimanclassic; 2010-12-29 at 11:15 PM.
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2010-12-29, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
I highly recommend that. Any familiar with Phoenix Magazine will know that I resized the Phoenix logo Djinn_In_Tonic made to go into signatures. That garnered a lot of interest, along with colored text like flames.
Unfortunately, Phoenix had some legal trouble. It's unlikely to rise above those, in case anyone was wondering in here. I doubt you'll have the same problem, though.Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2010-12-30, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)
Yeah, were kinda wondering about that. Frankly, I'd gravitate towards thinking you actually backed out too quickly of the whole thing. I know the wizards are a devious power to begin fiddling with, but I guess the most you'd get if you actually did start to would be a cease and desist. If you got anything and any attention, that is. And yet to circumvent this possibility, there has always been the - admittedly less appealing - option to make it in a threaded form here. <end offtopic, PM with bashing & lashing>