Sub-Normality...This Comic has no shame

[SpekterofDavid]

I want to know that is it me ONLY who hates subnormality or everybody else? Here is a link: http://www.viruscomix.com/subnormality.html

I just find the attitude so cocky, its not the "Jokingly laugh at people" like xkcd where it at the same time makes me aware of your own problems while not punching me in the face but more like "Your all stupid, im smart, you should all act like me"

And there are also issues covered in this comic which are not allowed to be on this site... They are covered in the most offensive and cruel way possible.

Yet at the same time there is a single strip that just cheers me up whenever I read it: http://www.viruscomix.com/page528.html

It just feels amazing that both where written by the same person.

What do you think

[Neoriceisgood]

Read the first few pages, quite a lot of text heavy ones that I don't get or that seem oriented towards subgroups I'm not a part of or something.

Do you have any specific examples of pages that bothered you? I didn't see anything that offended me in the earlier pages, mostly random attempts at humour, but don't really like the comic enough to read much further just to find examples myself.

[T-O-E]

http://viruscomix.wordpress.com/2007...-subnormality/

...and who refuses to read “giant wall(s)” of text. It’s true: people who don’t like reading (ie: The Illiterate, babies, etc.) aren’t gonna like my comic. I suppose he thinks books have “too many words” as well.

–Rowntree

This is an actual quote.

1) Brevity is wit
2) Your excess dialogue adds nothing
3) Your walls of text are poorly formatted and written in a terrible, eyesore font.

[SpekterofDavid]

http://viruscomix.wordpress.com/2007...-subnormality/



This is an actual quote.

1) Brevity is wit
2) Your excess dialogue adds nothing
3) Your walls of text are poorly formatted and written in a terrible, eyesore font.

I just find the way it constantly shoves its view up my ass annoying.

Ps: the point of a Web comic COMIC is PICTURES OVER WORDS!

[Fri]

I just find the attitude so cocky, its not the "Jokingly laugh at people" like xkcd where it at the same time makes me aware of your own problems while not punching me in the face but more like "Your all stupid, im smart, you should all act like me"

What? How do you know that? I always think that the comic's attitude is jokingly laugh at people.

And sorry. There on the post above me you also shoved your point of view. Next you'll say that webcomic must have good art and webcomic with stick figures are stupid. A webcomic comic can have as many or as little text as they want.

[SpekterofDavid]

What? How do you know that? I always think that the comic's attitude is jokingly laugh at people.

And sorry. There on the post above me you also shoved your point of view. Next you'll say that webcomic must have good art and webcomic with stick figures are stupid. A webcomic comic can have as many or as little text as they want.

http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html

There. There are other strips like it but..It just mentions the obvious (Like My post above). Chocolate health bars are rippoffs, duh men cannot take hot chicks who are smart (this was done 2 times).

Webcomics may, but in those terms if I removed the comic and added a few lines about Person talking with another the art would add nothing, there are no movements.

Ps: I love oots, why do you think Im here?

[T-O-E]

And sorry. There on the post above me you also shoved your point of view. Next you'll say that webcomic must have good art and webcomic with stick figures are stupid.

Tangent of a tangent:
Good art obviously helps. Most stick figure comics are stupid and lazy though. Some suit the comic (mostly for non-plots) and this is fine. A lot of the humour comes in cartoony graphics where realism wouldn't work. This doesn't hold for most plot comics.
Other people do it because they're unskilled, lazy (unwilling to improve through practice or care about their work) or for some reason can't. Maybe they're copying the art style of another comic (usually done by young people who haven't come into their own.) These people usually fail to take into account the restrictions and limitations of their chosen minimalism, and make an inferior product.
There is also a difference between laziness and effort, and to call them equal because "it's minimalism" is just insulting to the people who actually try. I've seen a lot of people wax lyrical about apparently amazing simplistic comics that achieve so much with so little and blah blah. They add these details themselves (again, can be good but usually not intentional on the author's part.)
Bad art does not make a webcomic bad, but bad art is still bad art.

A webcomic comic can have as many or as little text as they want.

Nothing personal, but I hate this opinion. I honestly believe there are good things and bad things regardless of personal opinion. Rules and norms to quality.
You cannot deny that dialogue affects this. It is pointless, excessive and an eyesore. A consequence of bad writing(?) that makes the comic less amusing, effective and even tiresome. It seems like the comics just a medium for cramming his opinions down your throat (like this post but with pretense) and an inability to separate himself from his work.

[Helanna]

Yeah, I never really got into Sub-Normality, and one major reason is its text/dialogue problems. Although I never really saw anything offensive in it, maybe I just didn't get far enough.

Now, I generally don't mind walls of text, but Sub-Normality's are just terrible - all shoved together in a hard-to-read font. It makes it nearly impossible for me to read through it all, especially when so much of it is redundant or unnecessary.

And while I do agree that comics with lots of words isn't necessarily a bad thing, the point of comics is to show things graphically - any words need to complement that. Sometimes lots of words can do that, sometimes it's better to just use a few.

[Miklus]

I want to know that is it me ONLY who hates subnormality or everybody else?

I must dissapoint you, SpekterofDavid. Yes, there are some wall-of-text, but some of the comics are just too funny!

http://www.viruscomix.com/page472.html

[SaintRidley]

http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html

Odd. That's my absolute favourite.

[Claudius Maximus]

How about this is a guy who can draw well so he tells his stories with illustrations so he doesn't have to set scenes or describe people or anything? Is it a rule that if you draw people on the same sheet of paper you've written on you have to devote the whole thing to the illustrations because comics?

Anyway, the walls of text are usually presented in the context of a character going on a big rant. I've seen this sort of thing a lot in movies, so why can't he try it in a comic?

I don't agree with his opinions, but I still appreciate what he's trying to do here. This is a guy who manages to convey a good part of his view of the world when he writes, and it can even be entertaining sometimes. I consider this an okay comic overall.

[PhantomFox]

There's a balance to be maintained between writing and illustration. A story with no text has a hard time conveying its meaning, like silent movies of yesteryear. A story with too much text is called a book.

[Trazoi]

This webcomic didn't ring any bells with me, so I took a peek at the latest comic... gah the words so many barely legible words!!!

If you're going to make a wordy comic, for goodness sake make the text easy to read! I can barely read this hand-written comic without squinting and slowing my reading speed down to a crawl - and for such a text heavy comic that's inexcusable.

[Gez]

I don't have problems reading his text. I do have a problem, however, waiting between 15 and 30 seconds for the image to finish loading...

[Fri]

Odd. That's my absolute favourite.

Indeed. I don't particularly like it, but it's a lot of people's favourite. From what I see, you're just angry because you don't share his opinion and vice versa.

And it seems that spectreofdavid missed the point of why I linked that particular article. By linking it, I was trying to show that you're trying to force your view on what comics/webcomics should be like the linked article. Not because I thought you hate stick figures comic, spectreofdavid.

And yeah, T-O-E, I agree that in this particular example, the wall of text is bad. But it's not because there's a rule about "comic shouldn't have a lot of text." It's about particular examples. A lot of well regarded comics/graphic novels got godly amount of wall-of-text but they're good and well received by peoples.

It's like saying, hmm... one particular chef uses a lot of beef in his cooking and it tastes bad, so obviously beef is bad for cooking and nobody should ever use it.

And once again, I must say that I can't see that he's more hostile toward other groups/subculture than other webcomic with similar premises. His disclaimer about people who don't like his comic are those who hate reading and must think that books have too many words?

XKCD got a disclaimer that his comic got advanced mathematic which isn't for liberal arts major (which incidentally I am).

I think it's called 'tongue in cheek' in case you never heard about that phrase before.

But honestly, I don't really like subnormality as well, though it got some gold there.

[Domochevsky]

So many bad metaphors... oh dear lord, so much text! @_@

(Really, author? You can't tell all that crap in four sentences? You have to squish a thousand words into each bubble? And then have the nerve to barely say anything at all? Screw that noise. )

[SpekterofDavid]

Indeed. I don't particularly like it, but it's a lot of people's favourite. From what I see, you're just angry because you don't share his opinion and vice versa.

And it seems that spectreofdavid missed the point of why I linked that particular article. By linking it, I was trying to show that you're trying to force your view on what comics/webcomics should be like the linked article. Not because I thought you hate stick figures comic, spectreofdavid.

And yeah, T-O-E, I agree that in this particular example, the wall of text is bad. But it's not because there's a rule about "comic shouldn't have a lot of text." It's about particular examples. A lot of well regarded comics/graphic novels got godly amount of wall-of-text but they're good and well received by peoples.

It's like saying, hmm... one particular chef uses a lot of beef in his cooking and it tastes bad, so obviously beef is bad for cooking and nobody should ever use it.

And once again, I must say that I can't see that he's more hostile toward other groups/subculture than other webcomic with similar premises. His disclaimer about people who don't like his comic are those who hate reading and must think that books have too many words?

XKCD got a disclaimer that his comic got advanced mathematic which isn't for liberal arts major (which incidentally I am).

I think it's called 'tongue in cheek' in case you never heard about that phrase before.

But honestly, I don't really like subnormality as well, though it got some gold there.

I realized after I re-read that alot of my stuff was hard to comprehend. So here

I do not like subnormality because

Constant Anti Religious overtones, Im not that religious and im not that offended. Its that it exists.

Strawman Argument techniques, pretty much any "Argument" is mostly between one smart person and other people acting stereotypically stupid

Its not Completely bad, Its that most of the time the srtip is usualy, silly clever and fun. Just the straw men strips above are really unsettling.

Thats pretty much it. Sorry for the inconvenience and supprisingly, I dont hate the text blocks that much. Im OK with them. But I still stand by the fact that most of these text blocks are poorly orginized and completely miss the simplicity point of a comic.

Edit: Xkcds Claim that biology is a core condescend sociology is absolute bull. Ill stop it with the metaphors, thats just WRONG! Saying that litarature analisis is for stupid people (While saying "Just look at wikapedia") is absolute bull.

[T-O-E]

And once again, I must say that I can't see that he's more hostile toward other groups/subculture than other webcomic with similar premises. His disclaimer about people who don't like his comic are those who hate reading and must think that books have too many words?

XKCD got a disclaimer that his comic got advanced mathematic which isn't for liberal arts major (which incidentally I am).

I think it's called 'tongue in cheek' in case you never heard about that phrase before.

It just seems snide and bitter. Like it was an actual argument he saw no problem with.
The xkcd example is clearly jovial and tongue in cheek, I agree.

Also about the graphic novels, usually the dialogue is necessary. Rowntree uses lots of words but says virtually nothing.

[Glass Mouse]

I'm gonna join the choir of "wordy comic's aren't neccessarily bad!"
I love reading. I love words, and language and everything related to it. I read a lot of text that's bland, boring or without interesting content, but if I have to read something for my enjoyment, it has to be well-written. A lot of comics do this (Something Positive and, sometimes, Pictures of You springs to mind).
Answering that "you don't like my comic's amount of text, so you must hate reading!" is just... immature.

So is his approach to pop culture. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda grew out of the whole "hating pop culture" fase when I left my teen years. I still don't care much for most of it, but really, my hate was just a childish, bitter reaction, and I left it behind when I realised that there were much better feelings I could replace it with (why hate the world when I can just love myself? - as corny as it sounds ).
Of course I can't use this to judge Rowntree for certain, but I still can't help but feel that childishness and bitterness must somehow be involved.

I'm a bit sad that some of you compare Subnormality to xkcd. XKCD isn't hating on anyone or taking a higher stance, it's ironically mocking everything, including itself.
The disclaimer on xkcd reads:

"Warning: this comic occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)"

That's funny!

Rowntree says: "

I did feel it was important to go on record as being a certain kind of person–ie: the kind of person who hates Bush and Nickelback and Hummers and all that other crap that thoughtless people embrace. This strip ain’t for them–it’s for the rest of us."

That's just... being a jerk.

[chionophile]

Edit: Xkcds Claim that biology is a core condescend sociology is absolute bull. Ill stop it with the metaphors, thats just WRONG! Saying that litarature analisis is for stupid people (While saying "Just look at wikapedia") is absolute bull.

Glass Mouse already said it, but I'm going to reiterate: This is called a joke. It is funny, not serious. xkcd is poking fun at sociology and literature analysis, not insulting it. There's a difference.

[ichini_sanshigo]

Wow, I didn't know people felt this strongly about this comic. Subnormality is actually one of my favorite comics. I love the walls of text and I don't have any problem reading them. I love the outrageous art and how he packs so many crazy details into each scene. I'm also not really seeing the hate of pop culture. I mean, the guy has a definite social liberal bent, so if that's not your cup of tea, that's cool. I'm not a big fan of Mallard Fillmore, but that doesn't mean Tinsley's comic is inferior. I guess, to each his own.

[Fluff & Napalm]

If you don't like it, don't read it. Some people love XKCD (since that seems to be the comic we are using for reference), some people hate it. It's all a matter of opinion.

[T-O-E]

If you don't like it, don't read it. Some people love XKCD (since that seems to be the comic we are using for reference), some people hate it. It's all a matter of opinion.

But people can say they like it and why they like it, and is that not opinion too? Why the dichotomy? Must we add "in my honest personal opinion" before everything we say? What would be the point? It's implied anyway, I think. Or should we cast away all of our opinions and remind ourselves that everything is equal no matter what we do or how hard (or little) we try?
Besides, this is a discussion thread, not a praise thread. In fact it was started as a hate thread.

"If you don't like it, don't read it."

This is the first response. You are talking to people who have already considered this and decided not to.
I personally read crap to find out what not to do and what I personally dislike. I think it also helps me to appreciate the good things even more. No light without dark, good without evil etc.
It's also fun to see someone completely ruin something and to vent about that. I respect the medium and I don't think everything's "just opinion."
I can understand if you don't see my point, but surely you've made fun of something and enjoyed it at some point in your life? Many, many forms of comedy thrive on this, including your xkcd. Can't you relate?

Also I was not talking about xkcd, in case you were wondering.

Just my opinion.

[Gez]

If you don't like it, don't read it.

If you don't like complaints about some literary work, don't read them.

And if you don't like complaints about complaints, don't read them.

And if you don't like infinite recursions about not reading stuff you don't like, don't read them.

[Glass Mouse]

If you don't like complaints about some literary work, don't read them.

And if you don't like complaints about complaints, don't read them.

And if you don't like infinite recursions about not reading stuff you don't like, don't read them.

Niice!

Also, everything T-O-E said.
I'm not trying to judge or hate on anyone who likes something other than me, so there's no need to be offended when I voice an opinion. Really, I'm nowhere near smart enough to judge something like taste (and I don't think anyone is. A lot of people seem to think they are, though... which is, ironically, the only thing I'll truly, secure-on-my-high-horse critisize people for).

[TheLaughingMan]

Subnormality- A Review

Now, I came into this comic blind. "Subnormality?" I said, scratching my head. "Perhaps a quirky 'comedy' about nerds ala CAD? A slightly pretentious stick comic, like xkcd? Hell, a comic about an ice-based supervillain and his never-ending struggle with society?"

Nope. Instead, pretentiousness.

Pinpointing a decline in Subnormality was almost ridiculously simple. This one. All comics before it are fun little strips. Surreal, yes, but enjoyable. Afterwards starts a horrible trend of rants headed towards punchlines that finished a panel ago. Pretentiousness flows from every other comic. Sure, a few manage to not have "f*** society " as the punchline, but damn if it isn't a chore to find. I kept having to double check, just to make sure that one comic wasn't a bland statement about America.

But about the art, yes, it is indeed competent. Which only makes it more depressing. I mean, this guy could've made a fun comic. It would've been pretty good. But no, we can't let those americans live their lives! They're horrible, lying, sexist, petty....

You get the idea. Are there things wrong with the world? I'd be an idiot if I said no. But I don't need a pretentious ass to tell me that.

tl;dr: Essentially liberal!Diversity Lane, but with enough real jokes to avoid being be downright horrible. A 4/10.

http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html

Odd. That's my absolute favourite.

That's... that's one of the single most pretentious* things I've seen since of been on the internet. Ever.

*(buzzword!)

Note: On xkcd: Hit or miss.

[SaintRidley]

That's... that's one of the single most pretentious* things I've seen since of been on the internet. Ever.

*(buzzword!)

I can't help but giggle at it.

Ditto for these ones, though not nearly as much:

http://www.viruscomix.com/page446.html

http://www.viruscomix.com/page503.html

http://www.viruscomix.com/page484.html

http://www.viruscomix.com/page457.html

And these three, if you can take the time to read them, are just all kinds of awesome in my mind:

http://www.viruscomix.com/page505.html (Completely transparent, but I like it anyway)

http://www.viruscomix.com/page473.html

http://www.viruscomix.com/page500.html


And, being the gigantic Metroid fan I am, how can I say no to Lara Croft and Samus with a cameo by the Duke himself?

http://www.viruscomix.com/page479.html

[Claudius Maximus]

Essentially liberal!Diversity Lane...

That's going a bit far. It's not that ridiculous even in terms of political nonsense.

That's... that's one of the single most pretentious* things I've seen since of been on the internet. Ever.

Agreed.

[TheLaughingMan]

That's going a bit far. It's not that ridiculous even in terms of political nonsense.

The end result is me wanting to punch someone. Both of those gave me that familiar feeling. But yeah, I'll give it to you.

[Zanaril]

http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html

There. There are other strips like it but..It just mentions the obvious (Like My post above). Chocolate health bars are rippoffs, duh men cannot take hot chicks who are smart (this was done 2 times).

From what I can see, it looks like an average webcomic.

So for the most part, you don't find it funny, and the type of humour doesn't appeal to you.

I'm wondering: why exactly are you taking the effort to hate this comic?