Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

[Chambers]

Re: Dwarven Ancestor - why not try coming up with original material, then? We should try to avoid copy + paste anways, right?

I agree. The problem I've been running into is that the good abilities that a melee class should have are in print somewhere, so it's either I copy them straight or add enough to it that it works differently. I've been busy with school the past few weeks so I haven't had much time to get creative on the specific abilities, but it is something I'd like to do.

Also, I wanted to thank you for your criticisms. While I don't agree with all of them I appreciate the time you've taken to review the class.

[Zemro]

Thorn: For the most part, it looks pretty good... but a few things really annoyed me.
First of all, the subduing strike. That's too much personal preference right there: the base creature doesn't have anything to do with nonlethal damage, and it seems like you're really forcing that. It would be a lot better if you just made it sneak attack.
Or, you could make 2 separate tracks, one a protector and one a slayer- the protector gets some better defenses, subdual strike and sleep arrows, the slayer gets better offenses, sneak attack and Con damage arrows. Just a thought.

I'll take that into consideration, I'm not a huge fan of multiple tracks though, but I'll give it proper consideration. I'm just going with the general feel of the race I got from reading it over, and figured it would make for something interesting and different.

The enhancement bonus is a little small. Why not just a scaling attack bonus, or maybe a scaling bonus to crit threat or something like that, and then actually let them enchant the thorn weapons? We don't want the Thorn tossing aside this ability just because they could buy a better weapon than they can make.

Erm, definitely think there's been a bit of a miscommunication on the ability here so I'll go back and revisit the wording.

The intent is that they can enchant the thorned weapons as normal, but provide a boost the that enchantment for a limited portion of an encounter. So if a Thorn 4 was wielding a +1 longsword, he could temporally turn it into a +1 Human Bane Longsword. Or if he later gains four levels in something else, turn his +1 Merciful Longsword into a +2 Keen Merciful Longsword for a little bit.

Secondly, I don't like the wisdom bonus. There's ONE ability it has based off of wisdom, and the base monster has a wisdom of 10, anyways. I'd scrap it and give it an even mix of 2 of strength, constitution & dexterity (or all 3). Or, give it more wisdom based abilities (but charisma still makes more sense to me).

Two abilities, the Weapon of Thorns Enchantment boost and the Slumbering Shots ability both function off Wisdom. I figured two abilities functioning off Wisdom in a four level class was pretty good, or warranted a small boost so they could still make use of them without taking too much of a hit too their primary stats. I will look into increasing Wisdom use in their abilities if it's deemed necessary for justification.

I chose Wisdom because I felt that Charisma is over used, and that Wisdom fit in well with the (Listen, Spot, Sense Motive and Survival being useful skills).

On the sleep arrows, I don't like how creatures not immune to the sleep only have to make one save, but the creatures immune to sleep have to make repeated saves.

Oh, good catch, that should probably apply to both. I'll definitely fix that right now.

Weapon of Barbs: This might be where you can add in more wisdom- why not just have the melee ability reduce natural armor based on wisdom as opposed to enhancement bonus?

That sounds a lot better to me, actually, I'ma go change that as well.

As for the ranged one, a simple -1 to attacks & ability checks should be good as opposed to dexterity.

Well, hitting their dexterity also reduced AC a bit, to keep some similarity between the abilities. Would something like: "These weapons are particularly cumbersome each weapon lodged reduces their dexterity bonus to AC by 1 and applies a -1 penalty to dexterity based attack rolls and ability checks." be out of line? Essentially giving all the downsides to a dexterity penalty, without having to actually reduce the dexterity score and everything associated with that.

[Gorgondantess]

I agree. The problem I've been running into is that the good abilities that a melee class should have are in print somewhere, so it's either I copy them straight or add enough to it that it works differently. I've been busy with school the past few weeks so I haven't had much time to get creative on the specific abilities, but it is something I'd like to do.

Also, I wanted to thank you for your criticisms. While I don't agree with all of them I appreciate the time you've taken to review the class.

Just going to interject that, for the most part, I agree with Hyudra. The class as-is doesn't get anything interesting until 5th & 6th level, and by then it's too little too late. The 2nd rendition was far better, and the only problem was that it was essentially copy/pasted from ToB. This does not mean "scrap it". What this means is change it. Your mountain hammer thing could just be altered to once/HD/encounter as a free action one attack can bypass DR/Hardness, sortof like the maug.
Better to have a derivative class that's fun to play than a... not derivative class that's boring.

[Gorgondantess]

I'll take that into consideration, I'm not a huge fan of multiple tracks though, but I'll give it proper consideration. I'm just going with the general feel of the race I got from reading it over, and figured it would make for something interesting and different.

While I understand that's how you wanted it, I'm of the opinion that sneak attack would appeal to a lot more people... so give them the option.

Erm, definitely think there's been a bit of a miscommunication on the ability here so I'll go back and revisit the wording.

The intent is that they can enchant the thorned weapons as normal, but provide a boost the that enchantment for a limited portion of an encounter. So if a Thorn 4 was wielding a +1 longsword, he could temporally turn it into a +1 Human Bane Longsword. Or if he later gains four levels in something else, turn his +1 Merciful Longsword into a +2 Keen Merciful Longsword for a little bit.

Alright. No, I'll admit, I skimmed it- my bad.
The problem with that ability is that every single flippin' time it's used you'll turn it into a bane weapon. Just food for thought there.

Two abilities, the Weapon of Thorns Enchantment boost and the Slumbering Shots ability both function off Wisdom. I figured two abilities functioning off Wisdom in a four level class was pretty good, or warranted a small boost so they could still make use of them without taking too much of a hit too their primary stats. I will look into increasing Wisdom use in their abilities if it's deemed necessary for justification.

Again, it'd probably be better to use charisma, as that's what the class had. Remember that while druids and ranger's nature powers are based off of wisdom, the fey almost exclusively use charisma for their powers- same abilities, different methods.
But, yes, I'd like to see more wisdom-based abilities. Don't be afraid to key things off of wisdom.

I chose Wisdom because I felt that Charisma is over used, and that Wisdom fit in well with the (Listen, Spot, Sense Motive and Survival being useful skills).

Okay, that's reasonable. Still, these are monsters, and charisma is the skill that governs abilities based on heritage as opposed to skill- there's a good reason charisma is used a lot.

Well, hitting their dexterity also reduced AC a bit, to keep some similarity between the abilities. Would something like: "These weapons are particularly cumbersome each weapon lodged reduces their dexterity bonus to AC by 1 and applies a -1 penalty to dexterity based attack rolls and ability checks." be out of line? Essentially giving all the downsides to a dexterity penalty, without having to actually reduce the dexterity score and everything associated with that.

See, the problem with the original one- and the one you have here- is the bookkeeping. A thorn will likely be making many, many attacks per round, and that number will only increase with things like haste, iterative attacks, and greater manyshot. You want a simple, direct penalty that stacks and doesn't have a specific limit or require any bookwork at all really.

[mootoall]

Since this thread is basically the other thread in a different incarnation, can we just move all of the classes off there to here? Barring issues like editing, which has to be done for older classes already, the other one has quite a few more classes on it, and most of them are pretty ship shape ...

[Gorgondantess]

Since this thread is basically the other thread in a different incarnation, can we just move all of the classes off there to here? Barring issues like editing, which has to be done for older classes already, the other one has quite a few more classes on it, and most of them are pretty ship shape ...

We have links to all of the classes in the OP. That's all that should matter- I'm using links to the classes that are on this thread. It would just inundate the already cluttered thread with more clutter.

[Zemro]

While I understand that's how you wanted it, I'm of the opinion that sneak attack would appeal to a lot more people... so give them the option.

Alright, well, I suppose that with the nonlethal damage ability they can make nonlethal sneak attacks (and I'll specify that I think). So I suppose it's not a big of a change, it is does make compatibility a little less complex.

Though, I'll retain the subduing strikes as an adaptation/ACF thing I think. I still like the concept, but I'll save it for those it also appeals to.

Alright. No, I'll admit, I skimmed it- my bad.
The problem with that ability is that every single flippin' time it's used you'll turn it into a bane weapon. Just food for thought there.

*looks up the bane enchantment to refresh himself on the specifics*

Oh my, they totally would be. Well the enhancement bonus is fine, but with the flexibility of the ability in mind, bane against everything isn't quite what I'd intended. My initial thought is to provide a list of acceptable enchantments, but there's no way I can pay proper heed to every splat that way. Perhaps I have the Thorn pick a specific combination of abilities that it applies every time the ability is used, allowing them to change it every 4HD, or level-up, or whatever seems fair.

Again, it'd probably be better to use charisma, as that's what the class had. Remember that while druids and ranger's nature powers are based off of wisdom, the fey almost exclusively use charisma for their powers- same abilities, different methods.
But, yes, I'd like to see more wisdom-based abilities. Don't be afraid to key things off of wisdom.

Okay, that's reasonable. Still, these are monsters, and charisma is the skill that governs abilities based on heritage as opposed to skill- there's a good reason charisma is used a lot.

Touché, I suppose Fey themselves are quite charisma aligned, so a point in favour of that. I'll pursue some additional ability utility first, though, see if I can't make it count for a bit more. Abilities aside, Wisdom does do more for them then Charisma, so before considering a change I think I should make sure it's pulling its weight.

See, the problem with the original one- and the one you have here- is the bookkeeping. A thorn will likely be making many, many attacks per round, and that number will only increase with things like haste, iterative attacks, and greater manyshot. You want a simple, direct penalty that stacks and doesn't have a specific limit or require any bookwork at all really.

Well, that did seem fairly straightforward to me, perhaps I'm just a complex person. It's a good point, so I'll look at simplifying things. Even just going with the original wording and capping the penalty at the Thorn's Wis Modifier (or whatever stat) would probably be a good step to avoid abusability.

EDIT: Went through a made a bunch of changes to the class. I'm not done making my final set of changes, and I did do a couple things just to feel out how they looked. Also added an additional class option to retain what I like about the concept, while allowing for something a bit more traditional.

[Gorgondantess]

Alright, well, I suppose that with the nonlethal damage ability they can make nonlethal sneak attacks (and I'll specify that I think). So I suppose it's not a big of a change, it is does make compatibility a little less complex.

Though, I'll retain the subduing strikes as an adaptation/ACF thing I think. I still like the concept, but I'll save it for those it also appeals to.

Make sure, whatever you're doing, you give them the option of keeping the damage bonus but dealing lethal damage.

*looks up the bane enchantment to refresh himself on the specifics*

Oh my, they totally would be. Well the enhancement bonus is fine, but with the flexibility of the ability in mind, bane against everything isn't quite what I'd intended. My initial thought is to provide a list of acceptable enchantments, but there's no way I can pay proper heed to every splat that way. Perhaps I have the Thorn pick a specific combination of abilities that it applies every time the ability is used, allowing them to change it every 4HD, or level-up, or whatever seems fair.

That would work.

Touché, I suppose Fey themselves are quite charisma aligned, so a point in favour of that. I'll pursue some additional ability utility first, though, see if I can't make it count for a bit more. Abilities aside, Wisdom does do more for them then Charisma, so before considering a change I think I should make sure it's pulling its weight.

Eh, it's okay if you keep wisdom.

Well, that did seem fairly straightforward to me, perhaps I'm just a complex person. It's a good point, so I'll look at simplifying things. Even just going with the original wording and capping the penalty at the Thorn's Wis Modifier (or whatever stat) would probably be a good step to avoid abusability.

The problem I'm seeing isn't so much abuseability (even though it's there) but just flat out complexity. You have to look at how many arrows hit each round, then subtract that from the dexterity, then find out how much its modifier dropped by, then reduce AC and initiative accordingly, then possibly reduce other stats accordingly. It's just a lot of annoyance for a little thing. Stacking penalties to other things than abilities would be better, as abilities tend to be a lot more complex, as they govern different things rather than just being a flat reduction.

[Zemro]

All right, with the largest amount of changes and clarifications yet the Thorn class has been updated, and I'm happier with how the class looks with them.

Penalties from the ranged Weapon of Barbs are specific, so should be easier to manage. I also decided to credit the Charisma flavour of the Fey by offering a Thorn a choice between charisma or wisdom for its abilities. I also added Heal to their skill list, as it occurred to me they might want to remove their ranged weapons safely from targets.

Everything else is pretty much tweaks and clarifications on various abilities. Thanks to everyone for the comments and critique.

I have the Marrash done up in a notepad document ready to be posted once the Thorn is finished. It still needs some work, but I've gotten to the point where I can clean it up any more without feedback and outside opinions (and probably some spellcheck ).

I'm going to try and make some comments on existing classes first, though, but I want to make sure I'm looking at classes that are actively being worked on so it's not just commenting for comments sake. What're some good creatures to look at from the list who's creators are still active? (Keeping in mind I'm not so good with longer or more complex classes)

[Niezck]

Anyways, I'm nominating the Phrenic Creature.

Phrenic Creature: So, yeah, I'll nominate it.

Cut down the quotes to save on space, but the quote links are still there to see the rest of the post.

So, anyways, can has be on the list?

[AugustNights]

Half-Golem Updated.

I’m going to be more in and out of the thread than before, so if anyone wants anything looked over by me specifically, shoot me a PM.

These review/responses may be a little behind topic, because I use work offline mode and word to write most of them, apologies for any odd thoughts that may no longer apply.

Now for my dance:
Animated Object:

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~Yay smaller sizes!
~Perhaps hidden life could function as non-detection the spell?
~ Love Never alive.
~ Distributed Consciousness sounds like a lot of fun.

Further, you may spend your budget for animating yourself on a magical item, instead of a mundane item, if you wish.

You may want to specify how that works, and maybe toss an example in.
And for the Object abilities:
~ Great use of Dwarven/Elven Made!
~ I don't understand the fluff of Halfling made, but it seems Freedom of movement at will is a bit much. Perhaps a limited number of rounds per day based off of something Like HD or Charisma or something like that?
~ Orcish made seems a little powerful especially if you consider that many traps and tactical combat situations rely on moving their targets. Maybe a healthy stability bonus to saves against such effects?
~ Gnomish Made: I like this, perhaps you could allow it to be taken a second time, or a second level ability like it?
~Grasper: This is pretty powerful, allowing for more than 1 grapple check at a time with no penalty is an effective +20 to grapple for each extra opponent. Reducing this -20 penalty by half may be a more balanced option, with a second ability for completely removing it. (One may act as if they are not grappling by suffering a -20 penalty to their current grapple check, which would allow them to grapple another creature.)
~ Mow Through: Fun and interesting, but maybe a second level power that allows to mow over bigger creatures, of at least 1 size category larger perhaps? Or no Reflex save?
~Controlled Hovering: With only 7 ability slots, I think you can go ahead and allow every extra instance to increase maneuverability instead of just every 2.
~ Ignite: Fun!
~ Sorcerous Light: And now that you have them hypnotized... is there a perhaps 3rd power that could be used to exploit the weak mind, or a series of third powers. Suggestion being the obvious choice, but what other evil ideas are there? Contingency Enchantments? (When the Moon is full you will be CHARM PERSON'd by the first person you see) cloud mind? Dominate? Read Thoughts? Explode internal organs? Plant false memories? Plant false rubber trees? I don't know. But the possibilities seem...open.
~ Nice Handy Haversack adjustment! (That's new right?)
~ Looking Glass: So do you get these Detect Spells as Spell like abilities, are they constant effects, can they be lowered?
~ Religious Artifact: Is it "two cleric spells or one emanation" or "two cleric spells or two emanations" or "Two things, which can be cleric spells and emanations." Also, what do you mean by emanations?
~ Crystalline Resonance: I agree that 2 psionic powers is a bit much. Perhaps 1 psionic power... and the ability to communicate telepathically up to a certain distance? Bonus to Autohypnosis Checks? Grant bonus skills to someone you've attuned to like a Psicrystal? Again, lots of possibilities here.
~ Choke is fun!
~ Spray is great, but it would probably get expensive. I don't suppose you could give it a Fog Cloud effect in the area without requiring a substance fill, perhaps limited by uses per day?
~Aaaaannd there's the answer to Spray, Substance Conjuration. Perhaps a limitation on uses per day with this, and a specification that the limiting price is for 1 'dose' of the substance to be conjured, and that when it is sprayed it dissipates and cannot be collected. (and thus cannot be resold.)
~ Magic Cupboard: Great. Looks like a fun, utility effect. I can see a cupboard now... "I am Batman" "No you're not! You're a cupboard!" "Well... I'm Batcupboard!"
~Digger: If you allow for 1/2 speed burrow, you may improve the flight ability, especialy since digger allows for climb speed as well. Burrow speeds are pretty nifty, and super useful, and at times deadly.
~ Musical: Outshines bards, but so does a poke in the eye with a hot stick.
~ Energy Lash: Damage is a bit high for a one level ability, maybe d4s to d6s? I suppose it’s not much worse than the half-dragon. What about a pre-req ability that offers a high resistance against that energy type (and probably a small other benefit?)
~Perhaps Mirror Mirror should have a pre-req that offers Augury, because it seems a bit powerful offering scrying and divination. (Or if not, a deck of cards should be able to do augury like Tarot, and maybe some other cool thing)
~ Seafaring is cool, I'm thinking there is something else you could add to make it more tasty but I can't right now think of what.
~ Jaws+Hungry Basket are great! But... storage implies that it functions as an extradimensional space... and storage that use extradimensional spaces, if I remember correctly do not support life, no atmosphere if I remember correctly, or very limited atmosphere.
~Psychedelic: Perhaps this should be limited to 'Image' spells? As it stands it's rather powerful.
~ Soporific: I swear my bed is radiating this effect.
All of your abilities are fun and interesting, but I think you can come up with more. But I'm heavily addicted to options ever since I did that Half-golem rewrite. If you want more options I could always PM you another Brainstorm of ideas. If not, this Animated Object is really living up to its potential! Good work! I know I'll be allowing my players to use this class. [Though admittedly I'll probably offer object power at every level because I love it so much, and I don't mind higher power characters. Especially for the challenges I throw at them.]

Phrenic Creature

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No Autohypnosis? I suppose it’s not necessary, but in a psionic abomination I'd imagine it'd be rather good at such things.

Phrenic Body: I think you could offer Powerpoints equal to HD, if you wanted to.

Phrenic Powers: May specify that it gains the Psionic-like Abilities for class levels of Phrenic creature.

1/X/day, where X is their highest available level.

Which level? Level of Psionic Power?
Manifester Level? Character Level? (The difference between Manifester Level and Character level in this instance is that Manifester Level can be increased with items and the such.)

Each day at dawn, the Phrenic Creature may re-select the powers chosen and swap them out for any of an equal or lower level.

While this seems rather intense, this guy doesn't get much besides these four powers. However allowing it to switch all powers at the beginning of the day makes this super utility, better even than 4 levels of straight psion by a long shot. It's quite open extreme tactical changes. I think it would be better to only allow it to change out 1 power a day, but that's just me. Also, this guy has access to all psionic powers? Definitely think the complete swap is a bit powerful.
Does it have access to School Specific Powers (I.e. if it learns levitate, may it levitate itself and other objects?)

Psionic Release: Right now reads as if only creatures with a powerpoint reserve are vulnerable to the dazing, is that intended?

All in all looks like a fun and interesting psi-warped creature to me. Good work!

Swarmshifter

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Friend of the Plague: Is a swarm shifter immune to swarm's distraction with higher HD than itself? This is a bit muddy in the text. The non-attack agreement of enemy swarms does not particularly make sense to me. Why don't other swarms attack it? I could see maybe a charm effect on swarms in a radius, with a will save, but the "Post Apocalyptic Murder 7 Swarms that once attacked Egypt and are now 1 big swarm because my DM is a Jerk who throws CR 37 Monsters at us, just because he knows we can take them down Monster" probably shouldn't ignore my L. 15 Swarmshifting Bleakborn. (Icy Beatle Swarm! ATTACK!)

On swarm Form: Is there a limited uses per day? What sort of action is it to change?

A Swarmshifter loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained swarm can make (an annoying chatter), but she can communicate normally with other swarms.

Might want to make that 'Swarm.'

At 2HD, your swarm form’s size is one space smaller than yours. At 5HD, your swarm size is equal to your own. At 10HD, it becomes one size bigger than your own. At 15HD it is two sizes bigger than your own, and at 20HD it is 3 sizes bigger than your own (To a maximum of Colossal).

Can I change to a smaller size? Otherwise this can be more troublesome than helpful in some situations.
If there was a number of uses per day, you could use those to access higher forms... not unlike the Therianthrope. (I know I'm making a lot of references to that creature type, but a Swarm Shifter is really just a Pluanthrope for undead.)

Your list of possible swarms is restricted to one swarm for every 2 HD you have. For every HD that is a multiple of 3 you gain (3, 6, 9, 12, 15 ect...) you may pick another Swarm (with the same max CL of HD-1) to add to the list.

So, is the list based on every 2 HD or ever 3 HD the swarmshifter has?
And is it possible that the Maximum CR of the swarm is equal to HD-1, or am I missing something about a Caster Level?

Right now the class is rather general and unspecific, allowing for a relatively loose bonus to ability scores while in alternate form, and a loose group of active abilities based on what monster manuals are available to the player or DM.

My suggestion? Give it some scaling ability bonuses while in alternate form based on swarm options that you detail out. I.e.

The swarm form always has Distraction DC (10+1/2HD+Wis). Swarm form can be made of Tiny sized Creatures, at Y HD these creatures may be Diminutive by expanding 2 uses of Swarm form per day. At Z HD these creatures may be of Fine sized by expanding 3 uses of Swarm form per day. Other general abilities of all swarms detailed here.
At (Variable Here) HD the Swarmshifter gains a new form, from those listed below.

Swarm types

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Scarab Swarm:
Special Power: Terrifying Distraction
(Scarabs crawl under your skin, creatures affected by this distraction must make an additional DC 10+1/2HD+Wis will save or be sickened rather than just nauseated.)
Flight: Fly speed/Maneuverability here.
Bite Attack: Enter that here
Ability Bonus: +1 to Str for every 2 HD.

Poison Beetle Swarm:
Special Power: Poison Damage! (List a poison here)
Bite Attack: Enter that here
Base land speed: Enter Here.
Ability Bonus: +1 to Str for every 2 HD.

Bot Fly Swarm:
Special Power: Freaking Terrifying Ability! (Seriously. bot flies are freaking horrible.)
Fly Speed: What that should be.
Ability Bonus: +1 to Str for every 2 HD.

Locust Swarm:
Special Power: Eat Everything in Sight
Fly Speed: Be sure to fill in the bubble and not cross it off or put an X in it.
Ability Bonus: +1 to Dex for every 2 HD.

Rat Swarm
Special Power: Carries Diseases!
Climb Speed: Remember Spelling Counts!
Base Land Speed: Answer in the form of a question.
Ability Bonus: +1 to Dex for every 4 HD, +1 to Str for every 2 HD that don't gain Dex.

Fire Beetles of Death
Special Power: Immune to fire, deal fire damage when crawling on your skin.
Base Land Speed: Double space your paper and don't forget your name!
Ability Bonus: +1 to Dex for every 4 HD, +1 to Str for every 2 HD that don't gain Dex.
(These examples were quickly put together, and you could easily delve into more detail. For scaling ability bonuses you could check out the Therianthropes, and for classes that offer options you could check out the Half-golem.)

This way you prevent player character cheese, but can still offer a mountain of interesting options that are all relatively balanced. I think 1 extra swarm option per 3 HD would be fine. I don't mean to write your monster class for you, it just seems you've been a little frustrated with some of the unbalanced aspects of your current monster, and I figure these could solve your problems. This is, of course, all just a series of suggestions. It looks like a good start though! Keep your head, and the good work, up!

Yellow Musk Creeper

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Vines: I don't understand what it means by suffering no penalty for being in the midst of a grapple. Does this mean it has freedom of movement effectively for grapples? Or that it can freely grapple as many creatures as it can reach? Either of those interpretations are rather powerful. Usually reserved for nigh-epic monsters.

Musk Puff: As that this is a chemical attraction, and not a force of will, I'd go with Con rather than Cha, but that's a flavor thing for me. As that this isn't a Poison effect, flavor wise it should only effect creatures who can smell though, Warforged out to be immune to this power entirely, Perhaps make it so that it only effects living creatures? Or is an inhaled vector alchemical attack?

If the Yellow Musk Creeper puffs a target who is already entranced, the attack automatically hits, and the target is denied the right to their next save.

By automatically hits, do you mean the target fails their fortitude save against it, or that the ranged touch attack is not required?

Mind Eater: What happens if I sunder the sucking vine? If I am grappled, but not helpless, can I not escape from the intelligence drain? What if I have freedom of movement, and leave the grapple? Or if I pin the Creeper? What if I teleport 1 mile away? Planeshift to the plane of fire? The way it reads once the Sucking has started it will continue even in these situations.

Flowering: Magicyop, are you trying to make me love your monsters by finding ways of giving them option abilities? If so, it’s working.

Musk bomb: Fun! Now I will rule the city!

Spore Sniping: And why not? I'm sure there's a way to mix this ability with crag-top archer... now to get my hands on a 5 foot tall zombie... (I like this ability. The mentioned cheese involving the CtA is no means of balancing, and was only meant as a joke. [Unless you are one of my players. In which case, be very very afraid.])

creeper: Less satisfying that the others. Could it get some scaling umph? Maybe a climb speed as well?
Since that’s what creepers usually do?

Empowered Zombies: No Hp love? No fun new attack? No yellow flowers on their heads that look like cute bonnets? What about tricks, like with handle animal?

Greenery Shield: Fun! I'd let it be taken a second time, but the second time the player chooses what the remaining energy type they're regeneration isn't effective against. (I.e. Now I'm Regeneration Cold!)

Zombies: Might 'Drop all HD gained through Class levels' as is standard with the Zombie situation.

This is an extraordinary effect and may not be removed by any means.

Raise Dead? True Resurrection? Miracle? If I get ganked by the Creeper I'm not coming back, ever? Super powerful in the hands of a PC.

Curing a Yellow Musk Zombie: A Yellow Musk Zombie's patron plant must be killed before the zombie can be cured of its affliction. Thereafter, a cleric of at least 12th level must cast regenerate or heal upon the character before the implanted seed germinates.

Wait? Frank isn't dead, he's just... stupid, and full of seeds? So... killing a Yellow Musk Zombie.... is like... killing your friend before they're completely gone? I...I...kind of like that. It's... more screwed up from a flavor position... mechanically speaking I don't like it at all...but the flavor is so awesome... I don't care. That's amazing! You might expand on that!

Thorn

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No swim skill?

Sometimes a Thorn may find himself faced with a challenge in which his weapon is not sufficient. Those of fourth level have a strong enough connection to the faerie courts to do something about that.

Seems like a separate 4th level ability to me.

When without a thorned weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use small power granted to them by the faerie courts and force the weapon or 50 pieces of ammunition to grow curved thorns in can take proper advantage of. This process takes five minutes and only changes the weapons appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This process is a supernatural ability and lasts as long as the weapon is in the Thorn's possession and for up to one minute after it leaves.

Seems to read as only an aesthetical change, did you intend to allow for Weapon of Thorns to be used with such a weapon?

If a Thorn gains the ability to strike non-lethally without penalty from another class, he increases his subduing strike damage by 1d6 while doing so.

Only class levels is intended correct? Magical Properties, items, feats, ect, don't work with this?

I love the SA option with subduing strike!

Since Slumbering shots works as a Sleep spell, you may specify that it effects creatures of 5 HD or more. (Since sleep only effects creatures of 4 HD or less.)

I like the slow option on slumbering shots, that's fun!

The way melee weapon of barbs reads, is that it requires the total amount of healing before any natural armor returns. I think you intended for 1 point of natural armor to be restored for every 5 points of healing, or did you intend, for example, if I had lost 5 points of natural armor class, that I don't receive any of it back until I heal 25 points of damage? (Which is the way it currently reads.)

Barbed Ranged weapons is mean, sir, and has my approval.

These guys are looking super fun! I almost want to play a modern setting with one of these guys on his veranda with a shot gun. 'Get offa my lawn!' he’d shout as he’d shoot Thorned Buckshot at those dern’d neighbor goblins.

Gargoyle

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Chiseled Armaments: While I love optional abilities, these are all pretty vanilla. Care to kick them up a notch? get creative. What can be carved on to a gargoyle that can make it awesome? Moaning mouths? Goaring Horns? Quadruped creatures? A third Eye? A tail? Scorpion Features? I mean, heck, at the Second biggest Church to the patron Saint of Spain there's a gargoyle of a man with camera. (Well... we say gargoyle, but we all mean Grotesque feature. Unless of course it has the ability to produce water from its mouth!)

Stone Skin Fortifications: Again, I love optional abilities, but optional passive abilities aren't terribly interesting. Of the three, unless I was going for some sort of Savezilla, I'd always take hardness. This doesn't seem to be the place for options. Why would it gain a luck bonus on saving throws? Gargoyles have never... at least in my recollection, been seen as particularly lucky. In fact, quite the opposite.


Improved Chiseled Armaments: It seems you want to offer a lot of options, but in very forced tracks. Why not offer a 'Chiseled Armament' at every level, and create a whole mess of abilities, some that build on each other and some that don't?

Carved Mobility: That's super cool that you added that, my personal (read not fit for the project) interpretation of the Gargoyle had a similar option. [While swimming gargoyles are called Kapoacinth, I called my burrowing version the Goji.]

Statuesque Perfection: Okay... so, I think you're taking the options thing a bit too far with this. This guy isn't a single class any more, he's like seven. This class is super complicated with this addition. I think there might be a more elegant way to handle this sort of thing.

They any poisons or diseases they have come into contact with are purged from their system, though they may still carry the disease or be affected by contact poisons after leaving the metabolic stasis.

There is a lot of syntax and logical confusion in this section of text. I don't really understand it, are the bad things purged? Or simply suppressed? Is it immune to poisons, or does it begin to be effected by poisons after it reanimates?

The bit about duration, does that count the time its suppressed, or is the duration suppressed as well?

Does the Gargoyle have any awareness while in this stasis? Does it sleep while within this stasis?

A good swing at the tricky passive class, but I think you can get more active options in a more elegant format. Keep at it!

Werescropion

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No need to limit the venom's uses per days.
Also, I've added an acid option to my venomous therianthropes. It's unnecessary, but I like the ability to have an option when fighting the 10 billionth poison immune creature the DM has thrown at us. Check out the Wereviper to see what I mean.


Adaptive: Completely defeats the purpose of the Animal only ability. Animal only abilities should remain just that. Without an animal only ability there is no incentive to be in animal form. You probably want to go into detail about delivering poisons with manufactured weapons, the type of action it takes to coat the weapon, whether or not the Scorpion risks poisoning itself, ect.

Curse of Entomanothropy: You may re-specify the Sizes of creatures effected by this ability.

Sorry about the overhaul changing all your work, but many of the changes have made Therianthropes more interesting and clearer monsters to be played. Keep at it!

Demilich

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It is spelled Demilich.
Personally I'd think all the levels in Lich would be required. But that's just me.

HD:(and change all previous HD to d12's) This bit is crazy powerful, and not really what the project has been doing.

Formatting: You are using a lot of ellipses in your formatting, which seem to have no purpose. Why?

Why is its flight so low, and unscaling?

No insight bonus to armor, or touch attacks?

No magic Resistance with oddball spell effects similar to that of a Golem?

No obscene Turning Resistance?

Where's my energy resistances?

Damage Reduction?

No Skill bonuses?

Standard progression of Metal attributes...but...but...+10

Wh..whe...How can I be a demilich If there aren't more than 1 phylactery?

Hey! Where's the cream filling!

All spells are considered Stilled, but no specification on that it requires no bump to spell level makes the Demilich a sad villain.

Metamagic Feats/Item Creation Feats: While this is keeping true to the original Demilich, feats for free isn't the project's MO. In the past such powers have been substituted for active ability options. I think you could take advantage of such a thing.

Soul steal: This needs some heavy rewording, as that it doesn't make any sense as it is. Further, Soul steal at Level one is a little... backwards isn't it? Anyhow, you may try using the original text to your advantage to make the current text make more sense.

Trap the Soul (Su)
A demilich can trap the souls of up to eight living creatures per day. To use this power, it selects any target it can see within 300 feet. The target is allowed a Fort saving throw (DC 10 + demilich’s HD + demilich’s Cha modifier). If the target makes its saving throw, it gains four negative levels (this does not count as a use of trap the soul). If the target fails its save, the soul of the target is instantly drawn from its body and trapped within one of the gems incorporated into the demilich’s form. The gem gleams wickedly for 24 hours, indicating the captive soul within. The soulless body collapses in a mass of corruption and molders in a single round, reduced to dust. If left to its own devices, the demilich slowly devours the soul over 24 hours—at the end of that time the soul is completely absorbed, and the victim is forever gone. If the demilich is overcome before the soul is eaten, crushing the gem releases the soul, after which time it is free to seek the afterlife or be returned to its body by the use of either resurrection, true resurrection, clone, or miracle. If the demilich is overcome before the soul is eaten, crushing the gem releases the soul, after which time it is free to seek the afterlife or be returned to its body by the use of either resurrection, true resurrection, clone, or miracle. A potential victim protected by a death ward spell is not immune to trap the soul, but receives a +5 bonus on its Fortitude saving throw and is effective against the level loss on a successful save.

Darker Touch: It’s kind of boring, isn't it? And why is it also so low and non-scaling?

Improved Darker Touch: Might want to say Demilich instead of lich.

The paralyzed creature appears dead but a DC20 spot check or a DC15 heal check will reveal the creature is still alive.

So, it appears alive to almost all epic monsters the players will be facing? These DCs are very low and non-scaling. I think that can be easily remedied.

At level 5 you gain 1/5 of one of the creatures mental ability scores.

How? In a basket? As a bonus to my ability score? What kind of bonus? This is super weak for an epic evil power. Why not tack on some other yummies for eating souls? Fast Healing? Skill bonuses? I think the Illithid Savant from Savage Species could offer you some brilliant inspiration for more incentive to eat a mortal's soul than a measly bonus to mental abilities. (Even +10 isn't going to change much post epic.)

So, all in all, this class could use a major overhaul. Currently it’s not so much of a Demilich as it is an Archlich, really. Keep in mind, you're playing with the big dogs of epic. You can let loose get a little crazy. This is your first epic attempt, right? Try not to get discouraged, they're really hard to do. Keep at it![

[Hyudra]

Manticore
Monster Class
Monster Manual, SRD

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HD: D10
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0| Manticore Body, Spike Volley, +1 Str
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0| Bloodscent, Leathery Wings, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1| Maneater, Skewer, +1 Str
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Ravage, Swipe, Flight, +1 Con
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Growth, Impalers, +1 Str
[/table]
Skill Points 2+Int per level
Class Skills: Intimidate, Listen, Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: Manticores are proficient with their natural attacks only.

Manticore Body: The Manticore loses all other racial bonuses, and gains magical beast traits. Manticores have Low Light Vision and Darkvision 60'. Manticores are medium size creatures that sport a base speed of 30 feet, two claw attacks that serve as their primary attack and deliver 1d6+Str damage each and a secondary bite attack that delivers 1d6+½Str damage. Manticores have a natural ranged attack that is detailed under Spikes, below. They have a racial bonus on Spot equal to ¼ their HD, minimum +1, and natural armor equal to their Con bonus.

Manticores lack fine manipulation. They may speak, with Common as their starting language and further languages gained for high intelligence scores, as normal.

Ability score increase: a Manticore gains +1 Str at first, third and fifth levels, and +1 Con at 2nd and 4th levels. By fifth level, a Manticore has +3 Str and +2 Con.

Spike Volley: With a snap of its tail, a Manticore can loose a volley of the spikes that stud its body. Treat this as a primary natural attack that targets up to three different foes with one spike each. Target foes must all be within 15' of one another and must be no further than 90' from the Manticore. Use of this attack precludes the use of the Manticore's bite or claw attacks, and vice versa.

Firing a spike volley is a standard action. Make an attack roll for each spike: each struck foe takes 1d6+½Str damage from the spike, with a critical threat on a 19-20, and provided they take damage from the spikes, suffer some detriment from the embedded spike in their body. The penalty varies according to the nature of the Manticore. At first level, pick one of the following. This choice is made once and applies to each of your spikes thereafter:

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• Broadhead Spike: Your spikes tear into the opponent's armor and are both large and heavy enough to interfere with the enemy's ability to defend themselves. Each spike embedded in your foe gives them a -1 penalty to AC.
• Serrated Spike: Your spikes are ridged to tear into flesh and have grooves in them that allow blood to readily run from the wound. For each spike embedded in a foe, that foe loses 1 hp a round. This increases by 1hp a round with every 4HD the Manticore has.
• Hooked Spike: Your spikes are hooked to catch on the flesh, tendons and equipment of your prey, hampering their movement. Each spike embedded in a foe reduces nonflying movement speeds by 5'. Foes who have their movement speed reduced to 0' are effectively immobile.
  Flying foes have their maneuverability reduced by one step for each spike embedded in them. Flying foes who would have their maneuverability reduced past clumsy have their fly speed halved instead. (ie. from 80 to 40, then 40 to 20, etc.)

In addition to the chosen penalty, a foe suffers a -2 to concentration checks for each spike lodged in their flesh. A foe may remove 1d3 spikes from their person with a full round action that requires a free hand and provokes attacks of opportunity. It is easier to remove the spikes from another than to pull them from one's own flesh: a foe can remove 1d4 spikes from one of their comrades with a standard action.

The Manticore grows a new spike every two hours, to a maximum of twelve spikes. A Manticore may not choose to fire less than the full set of 3 (later, this becomes 1d3+2, then 6) spikes, even if there are less targets than there are spikes fired (excess spikes are wasted). A manticore may fire less spikes if forced to do so by availability, such as when it only has 1 spike remaining on its tail.

At 3HD, the spike volley improves. It now strikes foes within 20' of one another, with each being no further than 135' from the Manticore. It now launches a volley of 4-5 spikes (the player may choose to alternate, with 4, then, 5, then 4, etc, or simply roll 1d2 and add 3). The Manticore grows 1 spike every 1.5 hours, to a maximum of 18 spikes.

At 5HD, the spike volley improves again. It now strikes foes within 30' of one another, with each being no further than 180' from the Manticore. Your spike volley now launches 6 spikes with each use. The Manticore grows 1 spike an hour, to a maximum of 24 spikes.

At 7HD and every 2HD thereafter, your spike volley launches an additional spike with each use (ie. 7 spikes at 7HD, 8 at 9HD), and the Manticore's maximum number of spikes increases by 4.

Starting at 10HD, when the Manticore gets a complete night's rest, it regrows its full complement of spikes.

Bloodscent: Starting at second level, Manticores may use Scent, allowing them to detect approaching foes, sniff out hidden foes and track enemies with their noses. They can detect the presence (but not the specific location) of foes within 30', with this range being altered by anywhere from -50% to +100 depending on wind direction. Strong scents may be detected at up to twice the usual range. Determining the general direction of an opponent via. scent is a move action, and moving within 5' of the source allows the Manticore to locate that foe, even if the enemy is hidden or invisible.

To assist in this hunting down of prey, the Manticore acquires the Track feat.

A Manticore that scents a foe at 25% or less health may add 10' to their movement speed (both land speed and flight) and may full attack on a charge, provided they are pursuing that foe and/or attacking that enemy with intent to kill.

Leathery Wings: Manticores of second level or higher can use their natural wings to transport themselves about the battlefield. The Manticore may fly (10' per HD to a maximum of 50', clumsy maneuverability), but has the restriction of having to start and end its turns on solid ground to do so.

Maneater: The word Manticore derives from the Greek martiya- (meaning 'man') and -Khvar (meaning 'to eat') and the creatures prove the reality of their 'man-eater' heritage starting at third level. The Manticore can savage their opponents and deliver horrific wounds as they virtually eat them alive. Once per day for every 2 HD the Manticore has, it may convert a successful melee attack into a confirmed critical hit. Doing so is a free action declared after the attack is rolled and confirmed as a hit.

If the foe is at 0 or less hitpoints after being struck with a Maneater attack, the Manticore gains an additional use for the day (The daily activation of 'Maneater' is effectively not spent).

Skewer Salvo: Starting at third level, the Manticore can launch a set of spikes with the intent of striking one foe with more than one, to better bring down lone prey. The Manticore may fire up to half its standard volley at a single target (rounding down) with a -4 penalty on each attack roll. Provided the attacks are successful, multiple spikes may be embedded in that foe, with their cumulative benefits.

Further, you may choose an additional ability from the list to define your spikes. This choice is made once and applies to each of your spikes thereafter:

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• Shatter Skewer: Your spikes are hollow, and break apart into large, jagged fragments if struck with sufficient impact. For each spike embedded in a foe, attacks against them have their critical threat range increased by one step (ie. From /20 to /19-20, and from /19-20 to /18-20.). For each critical hit delivered against a foe with the Shatter Skewer effect on them, one spike is removed from that foe.
• Barbed Skewer: Your spikes are barbed, making their removal difficult. Opponents take 1d6 damage for each spike that is removed from their bodies. Carefully removing one spike at a time will halve this damage, and doing so with a heal check exceeding 10 + the Manticore's HD will prevent this additional damage. For every 5HD the Manticore has, the damage of spike removal increases by 1d6.
• Sliver Skewer: Your spikes are covered in overlapping scales of bone that break off into your opponent's flesh on impact, causing pain whenever they move. For each spike embedded in their bodies, afflicted foes take 1 damage for every 5' they move. This damage increases by 1hp with every 4HD the Manticore has.
• One ability from the list in the 'Spikes' entry that you do not already have.

Ravage: Starting at fourth level, the savage strikes of the Manticore become truly terrifying. Your critical hits now ignore DR and always deal lethal damage (thereby bypassing regeneration).

Swipe: A fourth level Manticore is adept at drawing blood and causing pain at any opportunity. Any attacks of opportunity delivered by the Manticore that strike the foe will cause the opponent to flinch in pain. This effect will force the opponent to either sacrifice their standard action for the round (if not already performed/initiated) or end their current movement/action.

At 12 HD, the Manticore may elect to have any successfully delivered attack of opportunity be counted as a confirmed critical hit. By doing so, they forgo their ability to take attacks of opportunity for the rest of the round.

Flight: At fourth level, the Manticore can spread its wings and take to the air. The Manticore can now fly without the restriction of having to touch ground at any point during its turn. If the Manticore does not already have a fly speed of 50', it gains one, with clumsy maneuverability. They automatically acquire the feat Hover.

Growth: A fifth level Manticore grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Launch Impaler: Starting at fifth level, the Manticore may fire a single spike at a foe, emphasizing raw killing power over accuracy. Before making its attack roll, the Manticore subtracts a number from the roll. The Manticore may add three times the number subtracted to the damage roll. Attacks made in this manner automatically confirm as critical hits.

You may choose an additional ability from the list to define your spikes. This choice is made once and applies to each of your spikes thereafter:

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• Terrible Impaler: Your spikes ignore DR and hardness. In addition, each skewer embedded in an opponent's flesh reduces their maximum health by an amount equal to your HD, as the vile things prevent wounds from closing and injuries from being regenerated.
• Murderous Impaler: Your spikes cause a point of constitution damage on striking a foe, and opponents suffer a further -1 penalty to constitution for each spike embedded in their flesh.
• Pick two options from the Spikes or Skewer entries that you do not already possess.

Comments

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So, the Manticore was kind of an experiment on my part. I had a few design goals, here:

• I wanted a creature that didn't have a bunch of save-or- effects, thus the absence of the HD + ½ HD + {Stat} mod save/skill definitions.
• I wanted to build on the base nature of the creature as a monster that harasses its foes from range and then closes in for the kill.
• I wanted to add a little flavor to a creature that has almost none - even aesthetically, there's no consistency for the manticore, while the creature entry is exceedingly vague about the nature of the things.

So I gave it spikes as a customizable toolbox for the player, to hamper opponents in a variety of ways. For closing in for the kill, you've got Maneater and you've got Bloodscent.

A key balancing point is going to be the list of options for spikes, so keep an eye out for those. I'm suspicious I may want to remove the 3rd level Skewer effect (and use those entries to expand the other 2 lists), while having some further options to spikes promised later on at 10th or 15th levels, just so it isn't so frontloaded a class.

PEACH.

Changelog

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• Various wording changes to mitigate confusion.
• Reference to criticals penetrating hardness removed.

• Spikes is renamed Spike Volley, and changed as follows:
  
  • The rate of spike growth, maximum number of spikes, number of spikes fired in a volley, and the size/scope of the volley now scale with HD. I capped some of the the numbers at the 5HD values to avoid any ridiculous numbers (a 30' radius & 180' range is plenty already).
  • The manticore now, starting at 10HD, regrows all its spikes with a full night's rest. Breaks flavor just a smidge, but it keeps things sane as far as rate of spike growth & the number of full volleys available in a day.
  • Broadhead Spike: Removed the mention of circumstantial penalty.
  • Serrated Spike: Now scales (+1 hp lost a round for every 4HD the Manticore has).
  • Hooked Spike: The flat -5' reduction now applies to any nonflying movement. Flying foes who would have their maneuverability lowered past clumsy have their fly speed halved instead.
• Maneater: Changed the wording from "If the maneater attack drops the foe to 0 or less hitpoints" to "If the foe is at 0 or less hitpoints after being struck with the Maneater attack". This rephrasing makes it more efficient for really tearing into the already fallen and dying enemies.
• Skewer:
  
  • Renamed to Skewer Salvo.
  • References to improving the Spike Volley ability were removed (and are included under Spike Volley/HD advancements now).
  • The 3rd level 'spike' enhancement now lets Manticores fire up to 1/2 their standard volley at a single target, at a -4 attack penalty.
  • Barbed Skewer now allows a heal check to prevent the damage.
  • Barbed Skewer now scales (+1d6 damage per 5HD of the Manticore).
  • Sliver Skewer now scales (+1 hp per 5' moved, for every 4HD the Manticore has).
• Ravage: leaving untouched for now.
• Swipe: The benefit granted at 12HD is now (to paraphrase, is changed from "May instead make your AoO a critical") the ability to also make your AoO a critical, but doing so denies you the ability to make further AoOs that round, to forestall shenanigans.
• Impaler:
  
  • Renamed to 'Launch Impaler'
  • References to improving the Spike Volley ability were removed (and are included under Spike Volley/HD advancements, yadda yadda).
  • The 5th level ability for Manticores now lets you fire a single spike, taking a Power-attack-esque shot for potential high damage. These 'Impaler' shots automatically confirm as criticals, but I don't know there's real shenanigans possible here (Since Maneater only works with melee hits).
  • 'Terrible Impaler' now scales (reducing enemy's health by an amount equal to your HD).

2011

• Skewer Salvo:
  
  • Changed to fire (max spikes -5) or 2 spikes, from /2 your max # of spikes, which scaled ridiculously for applying effects.

2011 II

• Spikes now have to damage the target to impose the effect.

[FishAreWet]

Briarvex

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Hit Dice: d10
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|

+0

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Plant Body, Spiked Fist, Thorn Burrow

2nd|

+1

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|Entangle, Woodland Strike, +1 Str, +1 Con

3rd|

+2

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|Powerful Build, Speak with Plants, +1 Str, +1 Con

4th|

+3

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|Bark Skin, +1 Str, +1 Con

5th|

+3

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|Improved Woodland Stride, Wall of Thorns, +1 Str, +1 Con

6th|

+4

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|Growth, Animate Plants, +1 Str, +1 Con[/table]

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Briarvex’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Natue), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Brairvex gains proficiency with simple weapons, it's own Spiked Fist, Druid approved light armor.

Briarvex Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Briarvex.

Plant Body (Ex)
You lose all racial bonuses, and gains Plant traits. You gain 30 base speed and medium size. You takes +50% damage from any fire-based attack and gain a bonus to natural armor equal to 1 + Con mod. When you increase in size, your natural armor bonus increases by 1.

Ability Scores (Ex)
The Briarvex gains Strength and Constitution bonuses at every level but 1st. This is for a total of +5 Strength and +5 Constitution at level 6.

Spiked Fist (Ex)
Upon reaching 1st level the Briarvex gains the access to Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. These attacks must be delivered with the Biarvex's fists. These attacks are treated both as manufactured and as natural weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve. These attacks may only deal lethal and deal both bludgeoning and Piercing damage.

A Biarvex deal more damage with his fists as he becomes stronger. It follows the Monk's Unarmed Strike progression for damage.

Thorn Burrow (Ex)
Beginning at 1st level, whenever the Briarvex deals damage with his Spiked Fists thorns break off and bore into the opponent. Each damaging strike adds 1 Thorn Point to the target. These Thorn Points allow the Briarvex to later deal damage to the opponent. As a Move action the Briarvex may animate the thorns and rip them out of the target. This deals 1d6 damage per 4 HD of the Briarvex, minimum 1d6, to a maximum of 5d6 at 20 HD. Doing so removes one Thorn Points from the target. Any number of Thorn Points may be removed with a single Action. This ability improves to a Swift Action at level 4 and an Immediate Action at 8 HD.

In addition, for each Thorn Point a target is currently afflicted with, it takes a cumulative -2 penalty to dexterity. Thorn points may be removed by the target at the expense of a Full Round Action DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Con Mod Heal check which provokes an attack of opportunity. Failing this check still removes all Thorn points but in addition deals 1d4 damage per 3HD of the Briarbex, minimum 1d4, to a maximum of 6d4 at 18 HD.

Woodland Stride (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, the Briarvex gains Woodland Stride(as Druid). At level 4 this ability improves and allows the Briarvex to ignore the effects of magically manipulated undergrowth as well.

Entangle (Ex)
When the Briarvex reaches 2nd level he may animate the plant life around. As a Standard Action the Briarvex may cast a extraordinary Entangle in a 60ft burst around himself, this lasts for 1 round. At 9 HD the ability improves to effect a full 60ft radius around the Briarvex. This includes the air above him and the land beneath him. The DC is Constitution based. This ability functions otherwise as the spell, including the stipulation that it only works on areas with existing vegetation. The Briarvex's control of the vegetation allows him to remove up to Wisdom modifier amount of creatures from the effects of the Entangle.

The ability to Entangle improves to a Move Action at level 6. In addition, at level 11 HD the duration of the Briarvex's Entangle increases to Con modifier round if it opts to activate with a Move action.

The Briarvex may increase the initiating time of this ability for greater effects. By increasing the action used by one step (Full Round, Standard, Move) this ability creates the necessary vegetation for the ability to function. This vegetation recedes when the duration ends. These effects are in addition to the standard effect of Entangle.

Powerful Build (Ex)
The physical stature of Briarvex lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Briarvex is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Briarvex is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Briarvex is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Briarvex can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. This ability increases the size category of natural weapons.

Speak with Plants (Ex)
Beginning at 3rd level the Briarvex is under the permanent effect of the spell Speak With Plants.

Bark Skin (Ex)
Beginning at 4th level the Briarvex gains Damage Reduction equal to his HD broken by Slashing. In addition he gains a bonus to Hide equal to his HD while in vegetated environments and may ignore his own size penalties for Hide.

Wall Of Thorns (Sp)
Starting at 5th level the Briarvex may cast Wall of Thorns as a spell like ability HD/3 times per day.

Growth (Ex)
At 6th level the Briarvex loses the benefits of Powerful Build and grows to Large(Tall) Size, gaining all the benefits and disadvantages this includes.

Call Army (Su)
At level 6 the Briarvex gains the ability to cast Animate Objects 4 times per day per HD. This may only be cast upon vegetative matter. The animated plants are granted the Improved Woodland Stride of the Briarvex. You may take a -4 penalty to the caster level of this ability to cast it as a Swift Action. This ability is otherwise identical to Animate Objects.

Comments/Changelog:

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From MMIV. Whew, this is my first time trying this. Spiked Fist is intended to be exactly like a Monk's Unarmed Strike, I'm not positive if my wording is perfect there. I'm also worried about clarity regarding Thorn Burrow.

Intended to be a super beefy BFC. Not super heavy on damage, would easily be outclassed by a rogue. What do you guys think about allowing Thorn Burrow to work with manufactured weapons. TWF would becomes a worry with balance.

Changelog:
12/19: Creation; made Heal DC scale, added immediate action option to Thorn Burrow, removed medium armor/shield proficiency.
2/15: Typos and stuff. Removed Free Action entangle, increased duration of Move Action entangle, increased action to create permanent vegetation. More fiddling with durations and action of Entangle. Corrected cases where level should say HD and vice versa.
2/24: Removed Swift Action Entangle completely. And permanent vegetation. Lower Thorn Burrow damage to 5d6 at level 20.

[Kajhera]

Hyudra, you're still saying Class Skill Skills in your manticore class.

At first I read it as their bite delivering the natural armor and was momentarily confused.

The bonus on Spot checks is placed a little puzzlingly... you mean it to be a natural ability by that placement?

You have a conflict in flight speed between Leathery Wings and Flight; the first one gives you 10'/HD to a maximum of 50', the second one gives you 50' at 4th level.

For Ravage ... how are you making criticals against something with hardness?

[Magicyop]

Sorry I haven't been on, I can't stay long. I'll respond to critiques on the Yellow Musk Creeper and Animated Object tomorrow.

Since I'm simply editing the Wendigo, and it's not really my creature, I'll just make any changes asked at that time-- because I can't see why not.

Phrenic Creature and Purple Worm both had two votes and have both been added to the list.

Since this thread is basically the other thread in a different incarnation, can we just move all of the classes off there to here? Barring issues like editing, which has to be done for older classes already, the other one has quite a few more classes on it, and most of them are pretty ship shape ...

I'm... not sure what you're asking. All finished monster classes should be linked from the first post. If there's one I missed, let me know and I'll fix it.

[mootoall]

I'm... not sure what you're asking. All finished monster classes should be linked from the first post. If there's one I missed, let me know and I'll fix it.

No, it was my bad, I missed it. Sorry!

[Hyudra]

Hyudra, you're still saying Class Skill Skills in your manticore class.

Yeah, I did the preliminary templating for the Manticore prior to your mention of that. Thanks.

At first I read it as their bite delivering the natural armor and was momentarily confused.

I'll fix the wording.

The bonus on Spot checks is placed a little puzzlingly... you mean it to be a natural ability by that placement?

It's meant to be a racial bonus. I'll make the wording in that section a little more fluid.

You have a conflict in flight speed between Leathery Wings and Flight; the first one gives you 10'/HD to a maximum of 50', the second one gives you 50' at 4th level.

I'll clarify.

For Ravage ... how are you making criticals against something with hardness?

I'll remove that.

Edit: Changes made.

[Volthawk]

So, the manticore can only fire one barrage a day (since it takes 24 hours for the full set of spines to regenerate, and it can't fire less than a full set)? And it gets 12 spines at first level?

[Hyudra]

So, the manticore can only fire one barrage a day (since it takes 24 hours for the full set of spines to regenerate, and it can't fire less than a full set)? And it gets 12 spines at first level?

Nay. It fires 3 at a time at 1st, and can fire no less than the 3. Later this bumps up to 1d3+2, and then 6. You can't choose to fire, say, 1 spine spike every time.

So figure ~4-5 barrages in an adventuring day, maybe more if you account for regenerated spines spikes.

I'll clarify.

Edit: Clarified:

The Manticore grows a new spike every two hours, to a maximum of twelve spikes. A Manticore may not choose to fire less than the full set of 3 (later, this becomes 1d3+2, then 6) spikes, even if there are less targets than there are spikes fired (excess spikes are wasted). A manticore may fire less spikes if forced to do so by availability, such as when it only has 1 spike remaining on its tail.

[Owrtho]

Was looking through this, and just thought I'd see if anyone would be able to make a monster class of the Gatekeeper by Zeta Kai provided he doesn't mind?

Owrtho

[Hyudra]

Was looking through this, and just thought I'd see if anyone would be able to make a monster class of the Gatekeeper by Zeta Kai provided he doesn't mind?

Owrtho

The goal of the thread is more or less to make monster classes for each of the official monsters. Homebrew isn't included in the scope of this project.

That isn't to say you won't be able to find someone who wants to give it a shot - you might - but please don't expect to get an analysis of the same depth we're putting into the real monsters, and please don't be surprised if there's not much feedback.

[Kajhera]

Trumpet Archon

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Hit Die: d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features|Spellcasting
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Trumpet Archon Body, Heavenly Music, Celestial Trumpet, Inspire Courage +1|-
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Archon, Divine Soul|+1 Cleric
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|Celestia Magic, Melodic Casting|+1 Cleric
4|+3|+4|+1|+4|Emerald Skin, Magic Circle against Evil|-
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|Fortifying Melody|+1 Cleric
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|Disrupting Song|+1 Cleric
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|Wings, Aura of Menace|-
8|+6|+6|+2|+6|Inspire Courage +2|+1 Cleric
9|+6|+6|+3|+6|Righteous Melody|+1 Cleric
10|+7|+7|+3|+7|Greater Celestia Magic, Paralyzing Awe|-
11|+8|+7|+3|+7|Heavenly Choir|+1 Cleric
12|+9|+8|+4|+8|Piercing Melody|+1 Cleric
13|+9|+8|+4|+8|Song of Freedom, Imbued Magic|-
14|+10|+9|+4|+9|Inspire Courage +3|+1 Cleric[/table]


Proficiencies: A trumpet archon is proficient with simple and martial weapons.

Skills: 4+Int/level (x4 at 1st level). Concentration, Craft(any), Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge(any), Listen, Perform(wind instruments), Profession(any), Ride, Sense Motive, Spot

Trumpet Archon Body: A trumpet archon loses all other racial traits and gains Outsider traits. It is a medium-sized outsider with base speed 40'. It gains natural armor equal to its Constitution bonus.

Heavenly Music: Once per day per class level, a trumpet archon can play his trumpet to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). Each ability requires both a minimum class level and a minimum number of ranks in Perform(Wind Instruments) to qualify; if a trumpet archon does not have the required number of ranks, he does not gain the music ability until he acquires the needed ranks.

Starting a music effect is a standard action. Some music abilities require concentration, which means the trumpet archon must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using music that doesn’t require concentration, a trumpet archon cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word (but see Melodic Casting). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf trumpet archon has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use his music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit.

These music effects count as bardic music. Trumpet Archon levels stack with Bard levels to determine uses of bardic music and what bardic music abilities are known.

Celestial Trumpet: A trumpet archon's signature possession is his trumpet, which counts as a masterwork horn. As a free action, a trumpet archon may change his trumpet into any melee weapon he is proficient with. This weapon is masterwork, and gains a +1 enhancement bonus per 3 HD (round down). This may be distributed between enhancement bonus (maximum +5 until 21st level) and weapon abilities as the archon wishes. He may choose the enhancement distribution any time the granted bonus changes.

Inspire Courage: A trumpet archon with 3 or more ranks in Perform can use his trumpet to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the trumpet archon play. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the archon play and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. This takes a use of bardic music. At 8th level, and every six archon levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, and +3 at 14th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.

Archon: A 2nd-level Trumpet Archon gains resistance to electricity and a bonus on saves against petrification equal to its HD, and and a bonus on saves against poison equal to half its HD.

In addition, any weapons it wields are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR.

Divine Soul: Starting at 2nd level, a trumpet archon casts spells as a cleric, gaining spells per day and spells known at the indicated levels. All of its levels count for caster level. It gains access to a single domain, drawn from Air, Destruction, Good, Law, or War. If it takes levels in Cleric, those domains are available in addition to those granted by its deity.

Celestia Magic: A 3rd-level Trumpet Archon can use Continual Flame, Detect Evil, and Message as spell-like abilities at will (DC 10+1/2HD+Cha). Unless the trumpet archon spends 50gp of ruby dust, its continual flames last 1 minute/CL rather than being permanent.

Melodic Casting: A 3rd-level trumpet archon can cast spells and activate magic items by command word and spell completion while using a bardic music ability. Bardic music abilities that require concentration still take a standard action to perform.

Emerald Skin: A 4th-level trumpet archon gains DR/evil equal to 1/2 its HD and SR equal to 11+HD.

Magic Circle against Evil (Su): A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds a 4th-level archon (caster level equals the archon’s Hit Dice). It can be dispelled, but the archon can create a new one next turn as a free action.

Fortifying Melody: A 5th-level trumpet archon with 8 or more ranks in Perform can use his trumpet to protect more distant allies. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the trumpet archon play. The trumpet archon may use a bardic music attempt to grant a Protection from Evil effect to all allies within 5'/HD.

Disrupting Song: A 6th-level trumpet archon with 9 or more ranks in Perform can use his trumpet to disrupt spells that have verbal components. He may use his bardic music to give 20% spell failure to spellcasters casting within 5'/HD, as if they were deafened.

Wings: A 7th level trumpet archon gains wings, and a fly speed of 20' + 5'/HD at good maneuverability.

Aura of Menace: A righteous aura surrounds a 7th-level trumpet archon that fights or gets angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC is 10+HD+Charisma modifier. Those who fail take a -2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.

Righteous Melody: A 9th-level trumpet archon with 12 or more ranks in Perform can spend a use of its bardic music to rekindle the potency of its Aura of Menace. So long as the trumpet archon continues playing and for 3 rounds thereafter, creatures within the radius of its Aura of Menace must save against the effect each round regardless of whether they have resisted or broken the effect within the last 24 hours.

Greater Celestia Magic: A 10th-level trumpet archon can use teleport as a SLA 1/day for each 5HD it has. At 13th level, this ability upgrades to greater teleport.

Paralyzing Awe: A 10th-level trumpet archon’s trumpet produces music of utter clarity, piercing beauty, and, if the trumpet archon wills it, paralyzing awe. All creatures except archons within 100 feet of the blast must succeed on a DC 10+1/2HD+Charisma modifier Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to its HD.

Heavenly Choir: An 11th-level trumpet archon's bardic music echoes in heavenly refrain. The duration of lingering effects of its bardic music is doubled.

Piercing Melody: A 12th-level trumpet archon with 15 or more ranks in Perform may expend a bardic music attempt along with a use of Paralyzing Awe. If he does so, he may use his Perform check for the DC of the Fortitude save.

Song of Freedom: A 13th-level trumpet archon with 16 or more ranks in Perform can spend a use of bardic music to create an effect equivalent to the break enchantment spell (caster level equals the character’s archon level, plus any bard levels). Using this ability requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and music, and it functions on a single target within 30 feet.

Imbued Magic: A 13th-level trumpet archon may imbue its bardic music with magical power. If using a bardic music ability that requires concentration, he may ignore the fact that the ability takes a standard action for the purposes of casting spells.

Comments:

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Whew...Okay...14 levels is a lot. And I have no clue how it is. Too bardy? Too many abilities? I have a few ideas what I could write more comprehensibly, but how?

[Owrtho]

The goal of the thread is more or less to make monster classes for each of the official monsters. Homebrew isn't included in the scope of this project.

That isn't to say you won't be able to find someone who wants to give it a shot - you might - but please don't expect to get an analysis of the same depth we're putting into the real monsters, and please don't be surprised if there's not much feedback.

Well, a similar official monster would also work, but I can't seem to find any in 3.x. For example, both the House Hunters and the Greater Mimic don't seem to have ever been updated. While I recall there being some other monsters that impersonated buildings, I can't seem to find them in my 3.5 books.

Owrtho

[Magicyop]

The goal of the thread is more or less to make monster classes for each of the official monsters. Homebrew isn't included in the scope of this project.

That isn't to say you won't be able to find someone who wants to give it a shot - you might - but please don't expect to get an analysis of the same depth we're putting into the real monsters, and please don't be surprised if there's not much feedback.

Sorry, Hyudra, though that may have been the philosophy before, as we've outlined in the first post, I think we feel homebrew monsters are fine. Gorgon even accepted the rare homebrew monster. That's not to say we encourage classes completely from scratch, but as it says in the first post, for a monster which has been thoroughly PEACHed, go ahead and make a class. Our main goal is published monsters, but I don't see why we should exclude classes for homebrew monsters.

EDIT: That's not to say that you're not right, though. Our main focus *IS* on published monsters, and for the most part, that will be what we will be looking at. But I know that I will not intentionally ignore any homebrew monsters for the sake of them being homebrew.

Homebrew classes are a different matter. A couple times people have tried to create a monster class, just out of their head, not based on anything, and that's really outside the scope of this project.

[Hyudra]

Sorry, Hyudra, though that may have been the philosophy before, as we've outlined in the first post, I think we feel homebrew monsters are fine. Gorgon even accepted the rare homebrew monster. That's not to say we encourage classes completely from scratch, but as it says in the first post, for a monster which has been thoroughly PEACHed, go ahead and make a class. Our main goal is published monsters, but I don't see why we should exclude classes for homebrew monsters.

EDIT: That's not to say that you're not right, though. Our main focus *IS* on published monsters, and for the most part, that will be what we will be looking at. But I know that I will not intentionally ignore any homebrew monsters for the sake of them being homebrew.

Homebrew classes are a different matter. A couple times people have tried to create a monster class, just out of their head, not based on anything, and that's really outside the scope of this project.

No, that's what I was saying. The goal of the thread is to make all of the official monsters. You can make classes based on homebrew, but because we can't really include homebrew in the goal, because then we'd never be finished. As it's outside the primary goal of the project, like I warned Owrtho, it may be that much harder to get people to critique or analyze classes, or to put the same degree of effort into making them viable. I know I personally have little interest in covering such.

That isn't to say I won't review such, just that I have little patience for low quality monster classes based off of monsters that very few people care about. I've seen too many homebrew monsters brought up in the thread, which had a niche interest (like, 1 or 2 people who cared, most often being the person or people who made up the creature in the first place) to really take them seriously, barring the rare exception.

[*.*.*.*]

I know someone was working on the pseudonatural template, anyone have a link?

[Hyudra]

Pseudonatural Creature is a WIP by Gorgondantess.

[Zemro]

No swim skill?

*cough* I have no idea what you're talking about... *cough*

Good catch, that definitely an odd skill to leave out (I imagine it's because I've never had to roll a swim check...)

Seems like a separate 4th level ability to me.

Seems to read as only an aesthetical change, did you intend to allow for Weapon of Thorns to be used with such a weapon?

I'll make a small wording change to specify the intent properly, but yes it's to allow them access to their abilities with any weapon they happen across.

Keep in mind that the enchanting ability can only kick in at fourth level at the earliest, and is an extension of the ability allowing them to create thorned weapons. It could stand alone, I suppose, but I think it'd just be table clutter at that point. The ability is about creating and using thorned weapons, so it all fits together.

Only class levels is intended correct? Magical Properties, items, feats, ect, don't work with this?

Yes

Since Slumbering shots works as a Sleep spell, you may specify that it effects creatures of 5 HD or more. (Since sleep only effects creatures of 4 HD or less.)

You might want to look closer at the slumbering shots ability, there's been a clause in it for that since the beginning. I'll quote myself on this for easy reference:

Any creature damaged by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Chosen Ability Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell (CL=HD), regardless of HD.

The way melee weapon of barbs reads, is that it requires the total amount of healing before any natural armor returns. I think you intended for 1 point of natural armor to be restored for every 5 points of healing, or did you intend, for example, if I had lost 5 points of natural armor class, that I don't receive any of it back until I heal 25 points of damage? (Which is the way it currently reads.)

Weirdly enough I don't mind that interpretation, it's not my original intent though, so I'll relook at the wording. Thanks for the feedback.

[Gorgondantess]

Sorry, Hyudra, though that may have been the philosophy before, as we've outlined in the first post, I think we feel homebrew monsters are fine. Gorgon even accepted the rare homebrew monster. That's not to say we encourage classes completely from scratch, but as it says in the first post, for a monster which has been thoroughly PEACHed, go ahead and make a class. Our main goal is published monsters, but I don't see why we should exclude classes for homebrew monsters.

Didn't we outline why making homebrew monsters is probably a baaaaaaad idea?
Also, I never, to my knowledge, allowed a homebrew monster. Perhaps someone put up a monster that I never bothered to check the book on and OK'd, but other than that, no, I'm staunchly against homebrew monster classes for the time being.
As Hyudra said, and also, even if we let one person make one homebrew monster, then everybody is going to want to make a homebrew monster. Kindof like with the lycanthropes- it became a fad, and it got out of control. Let's try to keep our focus narrow here, folks.

Pseudonatural creature... will take a while. I could probably churn it out tonight if I had to, but it's a labor of love. These things take time.

[Niezck]

You're thinking of O, Magicyop. He accepted the Wing Dragon, which is homebrew.