Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II

[kanachi]

Hiya all, sorry I’ve not been about to look at all your awesome stuff lately (work finally caught up with me).

Anyway, I've added a bunch of feats related to doubles, conduits and other classes who may want a piece of the action. I’ve also added a new variant for the Hievarlan race which does not have a level adjustment and a new weapon called the Voiderlan which Hievarlan are familiar with.

If anyone can think of any glaring things still wrong with the class as a whole or has any ideas I would love to hear it, but I understand you are all probably busy sorting your own works out (the end is drawing near after all). Anyway, if anyone fancies a look that would be amazing!

I'm going away for a few days so my presence here will be limited but I'll try to take a look at some stuff when I have time and will probably attempt a few peaches if I'm able.

[malonkey1]

I have a great pathfinder base class that i'm thinking of converting to 3.5. Unless you would let me enter a pathfinder class, its close to 3.5.

The class had to be made specifically for the contest. Nothing pre-existing.

[Temotei]

I have a great pathfinder base class that i'm thinking of converting to 3.5. Unless you would let me enter a pathfinder class, its close to 3.5.

Since Pathfinder is basically 3.5 plus a bit and it's already created, I'm going to say this isn't allowed.

Besides, originality plays quite a bit into votes, I think. Conversions probably wouldn't get many votes even if they were done.

[devlingreye]

That's fine, I finished it today and though i would ask before I posted it in it's own thread.

[Morph Bark]

Since Pathfinder is basically 3.5 plus a bit and it's already created, I'm going to say this isn't allowed.

Even if it wasn't created yet, I'd say it'd be fairest to not allow Pathfinder entries, largely also because we've got the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition for that.

[God Imperror]

Been surprisingly busy this last days

Will jump into homebrewing tomorrow second time in the morning, I owe a PEACH

[kanachi]

Not long now until closing day! I'm getting very excited. I'm sorry I've not posted more or given any peaches for a while, I'll try to take a look over the next few days. Give me a shout if you want me to look at your class (I can’t promise I'll get to everyone though, sorry!)

Anyway, I really just popped on to say... Is it just me or are you guys having a hard time picking your top 3?!? I've got 5 favourite classes at the moment. Such is the quality of the contest.

Working my favourites down is going to prove very tough indeed!

[sirpercival]

Not long now until closing day! I'm getting very excited. I'm sorry I've not posted more or given any peaches for a while, I'll try to take a look over the next few days. Give me a shout if you want me to look at your class (I can’t promise I'll get to everyone though, sorry!)

Anyway, I really just popped on to say... Is it just me or are you guys having a hard time picking your top 3?!? I've got 5 favourite classes at the moment. Such is the quality of the contest.

Working my favourites down is going to prove very tough indeed!

I hear ya...


I don't have much time (I'm sick and busy with work/2yo), but I'm willing to PEACH if someone feels in desperate need... anyone need feedback before they implode?

In other news, I would love some comments on Solstice & Revolution, as well as the feats (actually, that reminds me that I need to add a few more, ack!).

[The Witch-King]

Just tossing in my two cents--I think Pathfinder classes should be allowed in the Base Class Challenge. The Pathfinder Grab Bag Contest isn't a Base Class contest. It often but not always includes a base class but it certainly isn't about that.

The latest Grab Bag contest requirements:

• An original base race.
• Alternate racial traits for the race (minimum 3).
• Favored class options for the race (minimum 3).
• A Racial Archetype (minimum 1).
• Racial equipment (minimum 1).
• Racial feats (minimum 3).
• Racial magic items (minimum 1).
• Racial spells (minimum 1).

I don't think it's fair to keep people from entering Pathfinder classes given how close the two systems are so long as the class is original and it's clearly labeled as a Pathfinder class. Just my opinion.

[Lord_Gareth]

Just tossing in my two cents--I think Pathfinder classes should be allowed in the Base Class Challenge. The Pathfinder Grab Bag Contest isn't a Base Class contest. It often but not always includes a base class but it certainly isn't about that.

The latest Grab Bag contest requirements:

• An original base race.
• Alternate racial traits for the race (minimum 3).
• Favored class options for the race (minimum 3).
• A Racial Archetype (minimum 1).
• Racial equipment (minimum 1).
• Racial feats (minimum 3).
• Racial magic items (minimum 1).
• Racial spells (minimum 1).

I don't think it's fair to keep people from entering Pathfinder classes given how close the two systems are so long as the class is original and it's clearly labeled as a Pathfinder class. Just my opinion.

"Fair" or not, there's some large compatibility issues between Pathfinder and 3.5, and both the variety of material available and the general balance points differ greatly. It'd be too hard to draw appropriate comparisons between the two and vote accordingly. After all, a class that's 'balanced' for Pathfinder is probably either heinously weak for 3.5 or stronger than a 3.5 equivalent (for comparison, PF Gunslinger is T5, whereas PF Wizard is in many ways natively stronger than its counterpart).

[Tanuki Tales]

*cough*

Just to give some context to what Witch-King said:

Last month's contest (which has been extended to this Friday) is a unique case and not the norm.

Back during the early days of the contest (which is only a few months ago mind you; we are a young whipper snapper) there was confusion over what you were entering in the contest in the first place. This lead a few individuals to assume you were making either a Monster or a Race with a Base Class and PrC attached to it. I cleared up the wording so it would not give that appearance, but several people had already or would voice that they were interested in doing something to that effect. So I promised those individuals at one point that I would devote one entire contest to just that concept.

While no, my contest does not specifically concentrate on base classes (or any other one type of 'brew), base classes are one of the entry options and to date (ignoring the additions that will come with this month's contest) is the most submitted type of homebrew to the contest.

I just felt, when making the PGBC originally, that instead of having a copy of one of the existing contests (which at the time was the Base Class, Prestige Class and Monster creation contests) but for Pathfinder, that I would allow all three to compete equally against one another for a different experience on the homebrew subforum.


The decision to include or not include Pathfinder homebrew material is ultimately up to Temotei and the other participants of this contest (I believe), but I personally would enjoy if you would point those wishing to submit Pathfinder 'brew towards my contest at least as a professional courtesy. Some months we barely manage to pull off the bare minimum 3 entries necessary to have a voting thread. And since Pathfinder 'brew has a much smaller presence on this subforum than 3.5, the PGBC can use all the help and entrants it can get.

But if you choose to include Pathfinder material in this contest, I hold no grudge towards the decision. These contests are meant to be for fun, enjoyment and creative exercise/expansion and I would hate to be lessening any of those for any reason.

[kanachi]

I’ve no experience with the Pathfinder system yet, much to my shame, so disregard my view if you like.

That said, I would prefer it if other systems were kept separate from this contest as it makes it harder to judge the merits of their craft rather than the frame upon which they are structured. I believe this could lead to a preference for a particular system colouring people’s views when making these comparisons.

Ultimately all entries should be judged on the same grounds, just like in a combat sport (MMA, judo, boxing) contestant’s weight in their own weight categories. If a weight category has a poor level of competition then it’s up to younger and more exciting fighters to spice things up. This does not mean that I view any of the current pathfinder contests as poor by the way, I’m talking about the ethos of fare competition and competition running in general.

I would have no problem with the creation of a pathfinder contest separate to this one however. I’m sure you would get lots of interest shown in it and over time it’s only natural that more and more people would move away from this contest and into the newer variation… that simply is the way of things.

In time this contest may not even exist and there may only be a pathfinder equivalent, so do not despair your day is close at hand.

[Tanuki Tales]

I would have no problem with the creation of a pathfinder contest separate to this one however. I’m sure you would get lots of interest shown in it

*polite cough*

[Morph Bark]

Don't look at me. I've been planning on going for a win on the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition once I'd won two or three times on this one, as I'd feel accomplished enough and would rather have others get a shot (while in the meantime taking my own shot at getting accomplished in the area of Pathfinder, of course).


Stop looking at me like I'm evil. D:

[Zaydos]

I'm going to vote keep 'em seperate because ultimately they are different systems. I am playing a Pathfinder game, I enjoy the game, and there are definite improvements (I like the consolidated skills) but the two are balanced differently and don't compare directly.

[Temotei]

In the original post is now a link to the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition.

[Tanuki Tales]

In the original post is now a link to the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition.

Aw, you didn't have to do that.

I really appreciate that and I'll see how I can work in a link for your thread.

Edit: I've added a link to both this thread and the one for Errant's contest as well. And if Mullet or someone else ever revives the Monster contest, I'll link that one as well.

[God Imperror]

Note to self: Guild wars 2 is awesome and addicting.
Note to self 2: Sometime in the future build a Mesmer homebrewed class

Okay a couple of days before deadline time to work hard on it...

after a couple more levels of guild wars (I got myself an addiction )

[GuyFawkes]

I don't like that game.

Cause my laptop's not good enough to run it smoothly and my net is crappy.

[kanachi]

Note to self: Guild wars 2 is awesome and addicting.
Note to self 2: Sometime in the future build a Mesmer homebrewed class

Okay a couple of days before deadline time to work hard on it...

after a couple more levels of guild wars (I got myself an addiction )

After eve online sucked me out of human civilization for a good few years I avoid mmos where possible... It sure does look pretty though!

as for what to improve on your class... well to be honest its already in my top 3 as of right now, so that shows that i already love it. My main gripes with the class itself is its flavor and I'm not talking the quality or (especially) quantity of it. I'm more talking about its focus... I at times feel as though the class is missing a real "explanation", like its missing a good rooting description which says to me "Yes! I know exactly what and why this class is what it is".

Perhaps focus more on the core identities of the class, by that I mean: Other than its mechanics what universally makes one member of the class the similar (not different) to another member. Why, how and when would I become one and what does it mean to me if i do?

Hope that helps. To be honest though I'm just pulling at random hairs with your class now as its really very well polished indeed and hard to "improve" upon without thinking drastic changes which may have the opposite effect.

[kanachi]

So basically... Its Peachin time!

Cycle Warden

Pre game rule information:

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"By Winter's frost and Summer's heat, by the decay of Autumn and the rebirth of Spring, I pledge my life to defend this land. May the Moon fall and Sun go black before I fail in my duty!"

From Summer to Autumn, Winter to Spring, the Cycle turns endlessly, day after day and year after year. A Cycle Warden is a warrior attuned to this circular progression, who taps into the fundamental natural forces and mystical energies of the Cycle in a profound way.

Adventures: A Cycle Warden's reasons for adventuring are as varied as the seasons. However, almost every Cycle Warden spends some time adventuring due to wanderlust, wanting to be away from civilization among the wilderness.

Characteristics: As a Cycle Warden, you are primarily a melee combatant. However, your abilities reward mid-combat tactics and planning, as you can tune the particular benefits you gain by the actions you take.

Alignment: As the seasons change, so does a Cycle Warden's personality. However, the Cycle orbits a center of dynamic stability and balance, and as such there is a measure of neutrality in every Cycle Warden's philosophy.

Religion: Like a druid or ranger, a Cycle Warden reveres nature above the devotion to a particular deity. Some feel strong connections to divine patrons of the natural world, such as Ehlonna or Obad-Hai, but most are more nonspecific in their faith.

Background: Some Cycle Wardens begin as warriors associated to a particular druidic order; others work with rangers to protect and explore the natural world. Some, particularly those of races who traditionally work closely with nature, such as elves and halflings, simply feel drawn to the Cycle and its contemplation.

Cycle Wardens most often come from small towns or enclaves embedded in the wilderness, mining villages perched on the slopes of forbidding mountains, or other communities with strong ties to nature and exposure to the Cycle. However, even in big cities and metropolitan areas, there are those who feel the pull of the seasons more strongly than their peers.

Races: Those with bonds to nature are most likely to become Cycle Wardens. Elves, halflings, humans, and half-elves in particular can find the Cycle compelling. Those races that live underground, sheltered from the seasons (dwarves, some gnomes, goblins), are very unlikely to become Cycle Wardens.

Other Classes: Cycle Wardens have few negative relations with other classes, as the Cycle is difficult to disrupt and few classes are actively against nature. On the other hand, druids, rangers, and other classes focused on the mystic primal energy of nature often get along with Cycle Wardens very well, though they will sometimes find Cycle Wardens' fickle and ever-changing nature somewhat baffling.

Role: Cycle Wardens are primarily melee characters; however, rather than being forced to simply deal damage, they have a large number of abilities which either grant them a measure of battlefield control, or allow them to debuff their enemies significantly. Their tunable defensive and offensive abilities make Cycle Wardens extremely versatile and skilled combatants.

Adaptation: As long as there are seasons in a particular campaign's climate, Cycle Warden as a class could theoretically replace the ranger in the normal array of character archetypes. However, the two are sufficiently dissimilar in abilities and theme that they could easily coexist (similar to the overlapping concept space of Wizard and Sorcerer).

I really love the flavor in this class. Its short to the point and paints an evocative image.

I always pay special attention to the adaptation portion of these pre game rules areas. I think this is a space which allows the creator to throw the door open to a dm or player and say "hay if you don't like this how about changing it to this?" With that said i'm a little disappointed by your entry which basically says "you could play one instead of a ranger..."

Why no consider how the class could be re-flavored and present such an option to your reader... there seems little reason that this class has to focus on the seasons of nature, as many aspects in science, science fiction and fantasy follow a cyclical pattern where one phase flows into another.

Apart from this however the flavor text here is truly first class.


Game rule information:

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GAME RULE INFORMATION
Cycle Wardens have the following game statistics.
Abilities: As a melee class, a cycle warden relies on her Strength and Constitution scores. Wisdom is also of secondary importance.
Alignment: Any neutral. Though seasons change, the core of balance and renewal remains constant.
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As ranger.
Starting Gold: As ranger.

Class Skills
The Cycle Warden's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Mild query about knowledge dungeoneering? Their generally subterranean and claustrophobic nature seems to draw them away from the big wide world theme you have going on.

Class Table:

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[snip]

As I said when looking at Tavar's class, I'm not really that well versed with the classes from the Tome of Battle... so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Anyway, 1 more good save than the warblade and more 2 more maneuvers known and probably a better recovery method than the warblade.

I suppose the lower hit dice brings it back in to line a bit but its still looking strong when compared side by side. Nothing wrong with that of course.

Also no dead levels which is a big plus.


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:

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Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A cycle warden is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. Though there is no specific restriction, most cycle wardens prefer wooden equipment to that made of metal.

Seems fine to me.


Maneuvers, Maneuvers readied and Stances known:

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Maneuvers: A cycle warden begins her career with knowledge of five martial maneuvers. She learns two maneuvers from the Solstice discipline, two from the Equinox discipline, and one maneuver from the Revolution discipline. Once she knows a maneuver, a cycle warden must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by cycle wardens is considered a supernatural ability unless otherwise noted in its description. A cycle warden's maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one.

A cycle warden learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown on the above table. She must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it. The highest-level maneuvers she can learn are based on her initiator level, as normal. Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered cycle warden level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), a cycle warden can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, she loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she meets the prerequisites and observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she can learn; she need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level.

Maneuvers readied: A cycle warden can ready three of her five maneuvers per encounter at level 1, and as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. A cycle warden readies maneuvers by meditating and practicing for 5 minutes; once readied, the maneuvers remain so until she spends 5 minutes to ready new ones. A cycle warden begins an encounter with all her maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she might have already used them since she readied them. When she initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of his maneuvers can be used once per encounter unless she recovers them. Whenever the cycle warden initiates a maneuver from the Solstice or Equinox disciplines, she may recover a single expended Revolution maneuver, and whenever she initiates a Revolution maneuver, she may recover a single expended Solstice or Equinox maneuver. A cycle warden cannot initiate a maneuver in the same round she recovers it, and cannot recover an expended maneuver in the same round she initiates it.

Stances known: A cycle warden begins play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to her. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 15th, and 20th level, she can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she currently uses as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, a cycle warden cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

I like the way they recharge their abilities though it does feel like you may get into a loop of just using best maneuvers A and B in mega loop.


Changing seasons:

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Changing seasons (Ex): The connection between a cycle warden and the Cycle itself is both fundamental and profound. The cycle warden's fighting techniques, defenses, and even her physical appearance reflect the changing Cycle and her place within it. To represent this give and take, a cycle warden has two sets of Season Ratings, one for the Solstice axis (a Summer rating and a Winter rating), and one for the Equinox axis (an Autumn rating and a Spring rating). The total rating for each of Equinox and Solstice is always 4 (for example, a cycle warden could have a Winter rating of 3 and a Summer rating of 1, as well as an Autumn rating of 0 and a Spring rating of 4).

At any given time, a cycle warden is associated with either the Equinox or Solstice axis, but not both; any time the cycle warden initiates a maneuver from the Revolution discipline, the axis she is associated with changes, and her appearance and abilities alter accordingly. Each time a cycle warden initiates an Equinox or Solstice maneuver, her rating for the season associated with that maneuver increases, and her rating for the opposing season decreases (for example, a cycle warden with Winter 3 and Summer 1 who initiated a Summer maneuver would then have Winter 2 and Summer 2).

A number of the cycle warden's class features are determined by her current axis and season ratings, as described below. In addition, a cycle warden gains an insight bonus to damage rolls with maneuvers equal to the rating of the appropriate season whenever she is associated with that axis (i.e., a cycle warden associated with Equinox with ratings of Autumn 1 and Spring 3 would gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with Autumn maneuvers and a +3 bonus to attack rolls with Spring maneuvers). Finally, as a cycle warden's season ratings and associated axis change, so does her physical appearance. Her skin, eye, and hair color reflect the seasons to which she is attuned most strongly. An autumn cycle warden is a study in oranges and reds; spring brings hues of light green and brown; a summer cycle warden displays dark green and gold; and winter dusts the cycle warden in white, silver, and black. A cycle warden who has equal ratings in both seasons she is associated with shows a mix of colors between the two. Additionally, any equipment made of plant material that the cycle warden is wielding or wearing (including wooden armor, shields, or weapons, and linen or cotton clothing) changes appropriately as well.

I think this would work really well with a player aid where players can move a small token from phase to phase across a board.

Anyway, for the main ability of the class I think this works really quite well. Whats to stop you just spamming two maneuvers endlessly? It would be nicer if you were forced to move from one phase to another... the cycle never flows backward after all. This would force the class to time their attacks wisely rather than build a mega combo and let fly.


Epoch:

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Epoch (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, a cycle warden can choose a particular season to which she can attune more strongly, called an Epoch. Such attunement requires 24 hours of meditation and communion with the Cycle; the cycle warden can change her Epoch by spending another 24 hours meditating. A cycle warden's maximum and minimum rating for her Epoch increases by 1 (becoming a range of 1 to 5; the other season on the same axis is still limited to the range of 0 to 4 for its ratings). For example, a cycle warden with the Spring Epoch could have a Spring rating of 5, at which point her Autumn rating would be 0. At 16th level, the maximum and minimum rating of her Epoch increases by an additional 1 (becoming a range of 2 to 6); if she is attuned to two Epochs with her Second Epoch ability (see below), both Epochs gain the increase.

Its a bit of a shame to see the class move into the realm of "I like one phase better than another" but i see why you have done it. I just personally feel like it tugs us away from the roots (pun intended) of the class.

Mechanically however this works well and i have no issues with it.


Eternal gift:

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Eternal gift (Ex): Upon reaching 3rd level, a cycle warden understands how the Cycle's constant change affects the world around her. She gains a +2 insight bonus to Wisdom-based skill checks, which increase by +2 at 8th level and every 5 levels after.

pretty cool early level boost to some of the best skills in the game. Everyone like a good spot and listen. Not entirely sure how this would make me better at some more obscure professions but that's not really a problem.


Rise and fall:

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Rise and fall (Su): At 4th level, a cycle warden's ties to the Cycle begin to show more strongly. Whenever she is associated with the Equinox axis, she gains resistance to Acid and Electricity equal to 5 times her Autumn and Spring ratings, respectively. When the cycle warden is associated with the Solstice axis, she gains resistance to Fire and Cold equal to 5 times her Summer and Winter ratings, respectively.

Nice class feature. Strong and gives good flavor.


Renewal:

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Renewal (Ex): A cycle warden learns to reinvent herself, growing anew from the remains of what she was before. Whenever a cycle warden of 5th level or higher switches into an Equinox or Solstice stance, she may ready one maneuver she knows from the same discipline as her new stance in place of any readied and unexpended maneuver.

I like this, it gives you some nice flexibility.


Skill mastery:

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Skill mastery (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, a cycle warden can draw on the Cycle to provide focus in otherwise trying times. She can take 10 on Wisdom-based skill checks even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

taking 10 on spot and listen when you are already getting some nice bonuses to those skills is pretty tasty. It makes a nice capstone to a E6 campaign.


Wax and wane:

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Wax and wane (Su): Starting at 7th level, a cycle warden's connection to the Cycle strengthens once again. Whenever she is associated with the Equinox axis, she gains an enhancement bonus to Wisdom and Constitution equal to her Autumn and Spring ratings, respectively. When the cycle warden is associated with the Solstice axis, she gains an insight bonus to Dexterity and Strength equal to her Summer and Winter ratings, respectively.

Yer i think some kind of fancy circular player aid would work awesomely with this class.

Personally i would still prefer it if you were driven from one phase to another but that's just me.


Second epoch:

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Second epoch (Ex): Upon reaching at 9th level, a cycle warden can attune to two Epochs simultaneously, one for each axis, with the same 24 hours of meditation.

I'm a bit Meh about the first one to be honest so i'm afraid this is more of the same from me.

Still mechanically it does work well.


Bloom and wither:

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Bloom and wither (Su): At 10th level, a cycle warden manifests the next aspect of her connection to the Cycle. Whenever she is associated with the Equinox axis, she gains fast healing equal to her Spring rating, and an insight bonus to Initiative checks equal to her Autumn rating. When the cycle warden is associated with the Solstice axis, she gains an insight bonus on Fortitude saves equal to her Winter rating, and any creature that attacks her with a natural weapon or non-reach melee weapon takes 1d8 fire damage times her Summer rating.

Pretty cool.


Call of the Cycle:

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Call of the Cycle (Su): Beginning at 11th level, a cycle warden can draw upon her connection to the Cycle to grant her incredible resiliency for a short period of time. A number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, a cycle warden can gain the Plant type (with all associated immunities) as a swift action on her turn. She retains the benefit for 1 round per class level.

This should see you through most your days battles as a plant if your building the class correctly. Not really a problem but worth noting.



more to follow...

[malonkey1]

Note to self: Guild wars 2 is awesome and addicting.
Note to self 2: Sometime in the future build a Mesmer homebrewed class

Okay a couple of days before deadline time to work hard on it...

after a couple more levels of guild wars (I got myself an addiction )

I'm sure that game is fun, but I've quit playing NCSoft games after what happened to City of Heroes. Like with my EA/Spore thing...

[sirpercival]

So basically... Its Peachin time!

Cycle Warden

Yesssssss!

Pre game rule information:
I really love the flavor in this class. Its short to the point and paints an evocative image.

Nice!

I always pay special attention to the adaptation portion of these pre game rules areas. I think this is a space which allows the creator to throw the door open to a dm or player and say "hay if you don't like this how about changing it to this?" With that said i'm a little disappointed by your entry which basically says "you could play one instead of a ranger..."

Why no consider how the class could be re-flavored and present such an option to your reader... there seems little reason that this class has to focus on the seasons of nature, as many aspects in science, science fiction and fantasy follow a cyclical pattern where one phase flows into another.

Apart from this however the flavor text here is truly first class.

Oh, hmm... I always thought this section was about "where does this fit in a normal campaign." I'll revisit this and see if I can figure something else out.

Game rule information:
Mild query about knowledge dungeoneering? Their generally subterranean and claustrophobic nature seems to draw them away from the big wide world theme you have going on.

That's a good point. I'll take it out.

Class Table:
As I said when looking at Tavar's class, I'm not really that well versed with the classes from the Tome of Battle... so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Anyway, 1 more good save than the warblade and more 2 more maneuvers known and probably a better recovery method than the warblade.

I suppose the lower hit dice brings it back in to line a bit but its still looking strong when compared side by side. Nothing wrong with that of course.

Also no dead levels which is a big plus.

I think the recovery method is kind of a push with the Warblade's. You can recover max 1 maneuver per round, and you have to use a maneuver to do it, so if you ever use more than 1 maneuver in a round, you'll quickly fall behind.

Maneuvers, Maneuvers readied and Stances known:
I like the way they recharge their abilities though it does feel like you may get into a loop of just using best maneuvers A and B in mega loop.

Yeah, I don't really see any way around this, given the rest of the mechanics of the class. Though, if you do that, you'll keep swapping axes and your abilities will cycle back and forth. I think this is the kind of thing that we'd have to playtest.

Changing seasons:
I think this would work really well with a player aid where players can move a small token from phase to phase across a board.

Yes, I'm working on some sort of aid.

Anyway, for the main ability of the class I think this works really quite well. Whats to stop you just spamming two maneuvers endlessly? It would be nicer if you were forced to move from one phase to another... the cycle never flows backward after all. This would force the class to time their attacks wisely rather than build a mega combo and let fly.

You're forced to change because to spam maneuvers back and forth, you have to initiate Revolution maneuvers, which swap your axis every time.

Epoch:
Its a bit of a shame to see the class move into the realm of "I like one phase better than another" but i see why you have done it. I just personally feel like it tugs us away from the roots (pun intended) of the class.

Mechanically however this works well and i have no issues with it.

I know what you mean, though the fact that you can alter your Epochs helps move away from pigeonholing.

Actually, it might be cooler if you have to repick every day, and you can't pick the one you picked yesterday. That way it's still an ever-changing progression. I'll implement that.

Eternal gift:
pretty cool early level boost to some of the best skills in the game. Everyone like a good spot and listen. Not entirely sure how this would make me better at some more obscure professions but that's not really a problem.

Hey, don't blame me, blame the designers who tied Profession to Wisdom ;)

Call of the Cycle:
This should see you through most your days battles as a plant if your building the class correctly. Not really a problem but worth noting.

Yeah, at that point many of those immunities are gettable elsewhere, if not common. At least since it's level 11, you can't get immunities through an early dip ;)

Thank you so much, and I can't wait to see the rest!

[Zaydos]

@sirpercival: You might want to note the 1 a round max in the class, because if any of the disciplines have boosts or counters it currently can recover 2 a round. Also the method is closer to a crusader's recover 1 every round method than a warblade's (and better because you actually get to choose which maneuver to recover) though a crusader's is about equal to a warblade's (personally I prefer a warblade's but I've seen it go the other way and really have to chock that one up to playstyle).

[sirpercival]

@sirpercival: You might want to note the 1 a round max in the class, because if any of the disciplines have boosts or counters it currently can recover 2 a round. Also the method is closer to a crusader's recover 1 every round method than a warblade's (and better because you actually get to choose which maneuver to recover) though a crusader's is about equal to a warblade's (personally I prefer a warblade's but I've seen it go the other way and really have to chock that one up to playstyle).

Oh my, yes. I can't believe I forgot that!

EDIT: I added a player aid diagram thingy in the last post. How does it look??

EDIT2: And finished all the feats (including tactical feats). Some of the feats seem a little lackluster or overly specific, but I guess not every feat can be a gamechanging gem...

[Tavar]

Let's take a look at those feats, then:

Spoiler

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Balanced Cycle [Tactical]

Seems good.

Burning Rage

I like this one. Not too powerful, but a good feat, with an extra bonus if you multiclassed.

Convalescent Warmth
Prerequisites: One Spring strike, Heal 4 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever you successfully damage an opponent with a Spring strike, you heal 2 points of damage.

This, I feel, is a bit weak. Compare to the Devoted Spirit Stance, which heals on all attacks and allows you to heal allies within a radius of yourself. And even then, it's not that great except at low levels or with a horrendous number of attacks, due to 2hp just not being that much healing. Perhaps 2hp x the number of the level of the strike?

Cycle Awareness

I think this is balanced.

First Snow
Prerequisites: One Winter strike.
Benefit: The first time you deal cold damage with a Winter strike in an encounter, if the amount of cold damage is variable, you may choose to deal the maximum amount of cold damage instead of rolling.

I like this feat, though I feel it's a bit limited: the discipline doesn't have that many attacks that deal cold damage, and the damage is usually split between cold and negative. Perhaps make it so that it adds some modifier to the damage, such as one's wisdom modifier? This feat definitely needs something else.

Frozen Earth

This seems good. Might want to clarify if it continues every round for some stuff: say, being grappled.

Harvest Hunter

This seems pretty good.

Heat of Battle
Prerequisites: One Summer stance, Power Attack
Benefit: Whenever you are in a Summer stance and use Power Attack to take a penalty to your attack roll, in addition to the normal damage you deal from the feat, you deal extra fire damage equal to half the penalty you take (rounded down).

Seems a bit weak for an addition to a feat. Maybe not have the damaged equal half the penalty?

Long Days, Long Nights [Tactical]
Prerequisites: One Summer maneuver, one Winter maneuver, base attack bonus +6, and one of Burning Rage, First Snow, Frozen Earth, or Heat of Battle.
Benefit: The Long Days, Long Nights feat enables the use of two tactical options:

• Afternoon Blaze: To use this option, you must hit an opponent with a melee attack which drops that opponent to 0 or fewer hit points, while wielding a Solstice discipline weapon. Make a DC 20 Survival check as a free action; if you succeed, all enemies within 10 feet immediately catch fire.
• Morning Chill: To use this option, you must deal damage to an opponent with a Solstice discipline weapon, and the damage you deal must be the first damage that opponent has taken in the combat. Each time you initiate a Winter maneuver for the rest of the combat, that opponent takes 2 cold damage.

Hmm... the first option as written is a bit weak. Make a DC 20 check after dropping an opponent, and they then have to make a DC 15 reflex or catch fire(1d6 fire damage). Maybe cut out the first save? That, or make the result more impressive.

The second also seems problematic, as it's low damage in only very specific circumstances. Compare to the first tactical feat: one gives you DR against a target as long as you hit them and make a check. The other allows you to bypass DR as long as you make 2 attacks in a row. The first feat seems like something one would like to take, the second seems like a trap.

Meditative Jolt
Prerequisites: One Spring stance, Flurry of Blows class feature.
Benefit: If you have levels in Monk and Cycle Warden, those levels stack for determining your unarmed strike damage and AC bonus. In addition, whenever you are in a Spring stance and use your Flurry of Blows ability, all your unarmed strikes deal additional electricity damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

The only problem I can see with this is that it's linked to the Monk class, but otherwise it's a good feat. Best for people who have dipped into monk(because then they aren't a monk...), though homebrew fixes can solve that problem.

Subtle Erosion
Prerequisites: One Autumn stance, Weapon Finesse
Benefit: Whenever you are in an Autumn stance, you may gain the benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat while wielding any Equinox discipline weapon.

Time Marches On [Tactical]
Prerequisites: Two Revolution maneuvers, base attack bonus +6, Martial Lore 9 ranks, Cycle Awareness.
Benefit: The Time Marches On feat enables the use of three tactical options:

• Forced Variation: To use this option, you must make a DC 20 Martial Lore check as a free action when hit by an opponent's attack. Your opponent cannot make any attacks with the weapon with which it attacked you for 1 round. It may make attacks with other weapons or take other actions as normal, but it is forbidden from attacking with the weapon with which it hit you.
• Inexorable Progression: To use this option, you must initiate a strike maneuver from a different season against the same opponent each round in four consecutive rounds. On the fourth round, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your initiator level + your Wisdom modifier) or fall unconscious for 1d4 rounds.
• Unusual Motion: To use this option, you must hit an opponent with a melee attack and deal damage. Until the end of your next turn, you may use Martial Lore instead of Tumble to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity from that opponent due to moving through squares it threatens.

The latter 2 options are fine, though I think the second one is unclear a tad: do you need to use manuevers from each of the 4 seasons, or could you go summer/Fall/Summer/Fall. I'd assume the former, but I could see the latter working, by your wording.

The initial option...I'm really not sure. It seems almost reasonable, but the fact that the opponent can't resist it, and it's not based on your actions, makes me feel uncomfortable.

Wild Recovery [Wild]

Seems decent, though maybe have the levels stack also for uses of wyld shape?

[sirpercival]

Let's take a look at those feats, then:

I must be from Georgia, I'm getting PEACHes!

This, I feel, is a bit weak. Compare to the Devoted Spirit Stance, which heals on all attacks and allows you to heal allies within a radius of yourself. And even then, it's not that great except at low levels or with a horrendous number of attacks, due to 2hp just not being that much healing. Perhaps 2hp x the number of the level of the strike?

Ooh, that works much more neatly. I'll make that change.

I like this feat, though I feel it's a bit limited: the discipline doesn't have that many attacks that deal cold damage, and the damage is usually split between cold and negative. Perhaps make it so that it adds some modifier to the damage, such as one's wisdom modifier? This feat definitely needs something else.

I shall cogitate.

This seems good. Might want to clarify if it continues every round for some stuff: say, being grappled.

I will clarify.

Seems a bit weak for an addition to a feat. Maybe not have the damaged equal half the penalty?

I think I'm going to scrap this effect and do something else. It's just not that interesting.

Hmm... the first option as written is a bit weak. Make a DC 20 check after dropping an opponent, and they then have to make a DC 15 reflex or catch fire(1d6 fire damage). Maybe cut out the first save? That, or make the result more impressive.

The second also seems problematic, as it's low damage in only very specific circumstances. Compare to the first tactical feat: one gives you DR against a target as long as you hit them and make a check. The other allows you to bypass DR as long as you make 2 attacks in a row. The first feat seems like something one would like to take, the second seems like a trap.

I'll take another look at this, see if I can come up with something more interesting.

The latter 2 options are fine, though I think the second one is unclear a tad: do you need to use manuevers from each of the 4 seasons, or could you go summer/Fall/Summer/Fall. I'd assume the former, but I could see the latter working, by your wording.

I'll clarify.

The initial option...I'm really not sure. It seems almost reasonable, but the fact that the opponent can't resist it, and it's not based on your actions, makes me feel uncomfortable.

Should I make it an opposed check? Would that help?

Seems decent, though maybe have the levels stack also for uses of wyld shape?

I had a reason for not including that when I wrote it, but I can't recall what it was and I think I was exhausted at the time, so I'll change it.

If an opponent hits you with multiple weapons, can you block each weapon? For example, if a badger claws and bites you, can you stop it from using both attacks, or do you choose one?

I respond in this thread, right? Anyway, I'll clarify - I had intended one at a time.

[ArkenBrony]

I'm sure that game is fun, but I've quit playing NCSoft games after what happened to City of Heroes. Like with my EA/Spore thing...

yeah, spore, i could not stop playing that...

Anyway, I really just popped on to say... Is it just me or are you guys having a hard time picking your top 3?!? I've got 5 favourite classes at the moment. Such is the quality of the contest.

i feel sorry to say i have not read any of the classes yet

[Tavar]

Added a bit to my entry, mostly 2 feats.

sirpercival: actually, having the first option of Time Marches On be unlimited use is also probably a bit too strong. Really what you're doing there is saying that, after a certain point, you may only attack the character every other round. That's a bit strong.

[sirpercival]

sirpercival: actually, having the first option of Time Marches On be unlimited use is also probably a bit too strong. Really what you're doing there is saying that, after a certain point, you may only attack the character every other round. That's a bit strong.

Well, not exactly. It's only with that particular weapon. They can do other things...? I dunno. I'll see if I can come up with something similarly flavorful but not as overpowered.