Character Builder Thread

[Generic Archer]

regarding Burgo
I am the DM in question, the game i am trying to run is a combination of element s that i believe that as a group we do poorly. thus i have a focus on puzzle solving and thinking both in and outside the game, there will be combat, but well thought out and tactical more than a hack and slash combat.
Any books are allowed, and I am not currently planning on using any house rules, more for simplicity than anything.
The characters are starting at ECL5

[Josiah30]

So, I'm new the GiantIP forums, and stumbled across this thread. I am working on a build for 1) use in a campaign I am running, probably as a villain, where I will have him as level 12 and the PCs at ~level 10, and 2) use as my pc in a friend's campaign where we start at level 8, going through...well, whatever we get to.

Books available are:
Complete series (Warrior, Adventurer, Mage, Arcane, Divine)
PHB 2
Tome of Battle
Races series (Wild, Stone, Destiny)

The build looks like this:

Race: Gray Elf
Ability score rules: 4d6, highest 3, reroll 1s, 6 sets.
My best set was 17/17/16/14/14/12/10. I am thinking:
Str 14 - 2
Dex 17 + 2
Con 14 - 2
Int 17 +2
Wis 16
Cha 10

With stat bonuses across the levels as:
4: Int
8: Dex
12, 16: Int
20: Undecided

Level structure:
1: Sword Sage
2: Swashbuckler
3: Sword Sage
4: Swashbuckler
5: Sword Sage
6: Swashbuckler
7: Wizard (Abjurer, drop Necromancy and Enchantment schools)
8-12: Abjurant Champion
13: Sword Sage
14-15: Fatespinner
16-20: Jade Phoenix Mage

Total levels are Swordsage 4, Swashbuckler 3, Wizard 1, AbjCh 5, JPMage 5 Fatespinner 2.

BAB total is 17. So is caster level due to AbjCh level 5 ability.

Spells per day will be 4/6/6/5/4/4/3 with an additional abjuration spell per level. The specializing is mostly for roleplay than actual usefulness...if I was going for usefulness I'd specialize in evocation.

Initiator level is 9. Main focus here will be Blood in the Water stance to go with using rapier and kukri, both of which will (ideally) be keen.

Feats:
1: Weapon Focus (Diamond Mind) from Swordsage, Two Weapon Fighting.
2: Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler)
3: Quick Draw
6: Combat Casting
7: Alertness (Wizard's Familiar)
9: Battle Casting
12: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15: Spell Penetration
18: Energy Abjuration

Any thoughts? I was considering going into the bladesinger class rather than jade phoenix, but the single weapon requisite kills it for me, as well as the slower caster progression. Also I'm not sure on which order to take the JPM and the fatespinner in. I originally had it flipped from that...

[Superglucose]

Looking for:

Level 12 elf evocation specialist, with a plan for the next few levels, named Glorfindel the Flaming

Concept:
Is a blaster... ish... mage who specializes in Fire. Everything about the guy is fire... flaming sword, continual flame on his clothes, flaming arrows, flaming burst on his sword (which is a Rapier btw). But he also needs to be as batman as possible for an Evocation specialist who likes to use fire. He's definitely something of a pyromaniac. He's going to be used against PCs and works together with a 11 getsalt ranger/rogue (sort of). I want as much cheese as possible from the core please, as a 2v4 battle will be easy enough for the PCs, and I can always take a greatly-built mage and play him down to my PC level, but it's harder to go the other way. Make my PCs work for this victory please!

Useable: Anything in Core or SRD, preferably all core.
Stats: (before additions for level)
12 Str
14 Con
16 Dex
18 Int
11 Wis
9 Cha

Other little tidbits:
Wealth: By level, plus +1 Flaming Flaming Burst Mithril Rapier with Continual Flame, set of clothes with Continual Flame, heavy black cloak. (These last three are in addition to wbl).

Familiar: small Fire Elemental
Feats: Weapon Finesse: Rapier
Skills: lots. I do class skills a little more flexibly. You're still limited to the number of skills your class has, but you can switch a class skill that your class 'has' for a different skill, which becomes your new class skill. EX: Normally a Wizard gets Knowledge (The Planes), Glorfindel traded this for Search instead. He definitely has Search as a class skill... as well as Forgery.

Other notes: I expect this to be a VERY challenging encounter for my party as they are facing quite literally two BBEGs at the same time who work together. The ECL is going to be about... two above their level (for BBEGs I give challenges). Since this wizard is quite intelligent, it would be nice if he had contingencies for the major party. I'm expecting the party will have a Druid, a Cleric, a Fighter who specializes in archery, and a TWF Rogue. There may or may not be an arcane caster, who will probably be a sorcerer. Unlike the rest of the group, the sorcerer will be a very new player.

Also the sword is an intelligent item that will only work for people in Glorfindel's family, with an ego score that's... very high. it'd be nice if you could work out some details on the sword, but it's not necessary. Essentially it's an heirloom from his family, who are a bunch of smiths, and his family was killed off.

Thanks!

--Superglucose

[Legoshrimp]

Does the sword also like fire? If not is there anything specific you want in the sword?

[Superglucose]

High ego score, the ability to speak, the ability to use Sending 1/day. The sword does like fire as well. Eventually (like Epic level, which is where this campaign is heading) they should be able to overcome it and find it useful, but it has to be really powerful, and the Ego thing is basically the deterrent from using the sword before they're 'ready.'

[Legoshrimp]

I forgot to ask but is there any gold limit and do you want it to have telapathy? What about it's alignment? What is sending 1/day? Do you know what the characters will save will be when you want him to be using the sword? What do you think about it having a purpose to kill all water outsiders with its dedicated power a 10d6 fireball?

[Superglucose]

I forgot to ask but is there any gold limit and do you want it to have telapathy? What about it's alignment? What is sending 1/day? Do you know what the characters will save will be when you want him to be using the sword? What do you think about it having a purpose to kill all water outsiders with its dedicated power a 10d6 fireball?

Mk... in this order:

No gold limit, not really, Chaotic Good (it's mastered by a CN right now so it has slightly Neutral tendencies, but in the end is still Chaotic Good), Sending as the Spell as a supernatural ability once per day (or equivalent), the characters will be around level 11, so bad save would be... +6? And good would be +10? A better purpose would be to kill all orcs, but a dedicated power of 10d6 fireball sounds nice.

[SamTheCleric]

Hello Folks. I'm currently in a campaign with my namesake cleric, Sam, and things are going well. I would like to have a decent back up character in case things go bad... because... things always go bad for the cleric. We are currently averaging level 11, so the character would be built for that level.

Q - 818 (I'll just use the post number!)
a. Books that can be used to build your character
PHB 1&2, DMG 1&2, Tome of Battle, All Race Books, All Complete Books, Spell Compendium, Libris Mortis, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Lords of Madness

b. Race (including any Level Adjustment Limits)

We don't have a specific rule on races... so anything goes it would seem. I am open to just about anything... I don't want to go with anything TOO out there (no baleen whale, please!)

c. Class

All PHB classes are in use. Psion, Psychic Warrior, Warmage, Scout, Spellthief, Marshall, Crusader and Warblade are in use as well. All others are on an "ask first" basis, but not ruled out entirely.

All PRCs are ask first.

That being said, I just had the tome of battle lent to me and am starting to dig it, though I don't have a grasp on it completely. Swordsage appeals to me most... but they are all good.

d. Ability Scores (fixed or generation method)

32 point buy.

e. Alignment

We can't be evil, I don't think... Though I'm not sure about the warlock sometimes.

f. House Rules:

None that will affect you guys

g. Concept:

I'm torn between either a two weapon fighter, lots of attacks... (My "vision" is a very anime kind of character with 6 short swords on his back standing in a martial pose. Yes... I'm a geek that way)

The other idea is a thrown weapon expert. I've wanted to try one for a while, but never found the feel I wanted.

h. Other: The party makeup right now: A straight fighter. (*shudder* I can't talk him out of it), Marshal/Wizard combo of some level, Warlock 9/Cleric 2, Rogue/Scout/Ranger/Highland Stalker (he stabs things with a glaive after doing the scout dance), Wizard/Geometer/Fatespinner. None of these are optimized in the least, just a bunch of people having fun with whatever they want. I do not want to blow them out of the water with something completely overpowered... but I also don't want to be weak.

[Legoshrimp]

Here is what ive got.

Name: Glorfindel's flaming rapier: +1 flaming flaming burst mithriel rapier with continuel flame cast on it. AL CG. Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 10; Speech, telepathy, sences, 120 ft. darkvision and hearing, Ego score 20.

Lesser powers: Item can use faerie fire 3/day, item can use the spell sending 1/day, and Item can use cure moderate wounds (2d8+3) on wielder 3/day.

Greater powers: Item creats wall of fire in a ring with the wielder at the center 1/day.

Special purpose: Defeat/slay orcs.

Dedicated powers: Item can cast 10d6 fireball.

I hope this is what you are looking for. Everything is in the core rulebooks. the rules for intelligent items are in the DMG. 268. If you need any other help with the sword I would be glad to help.

[Superglucose]

Here is what ive got.

Name: Glorfindel's flaming rapier: +1 flaming flaming burst mithriel rapier with continuel flame cast on it. AL CG. Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 10; Speech, telepathy, sences, 120 ft. darkvision and hearing, Ego score 20.

Lesser powers: Item can use faerie fire 3/day, item can use the spell sending 1/day, and Item can use cure moderate wounds (2d8+3) on wielder 3/day.

Greater powers: Item creats wall of fire in a ring with the wielder at the center 1/day.

Special purpose: Defeat/slay orcs.

Dedicated powers: Item can cast 10d6 fireball.

I hope this is what you are looking for. Everything is in the core rulebooks. the rules for intelligent items are in the DMG. 268. If you need any other help with the sword I would be glad to help.

Sweet. This would be especially delicious if one of my characters plays a half-orc I'll have fun with this. Thank you so much. I think I'll tweak it here and there, like maybe it's a +2 or 3 sword, and anyone who's kin to Glorfindel gets a +4 circumstance bonus to overcome it's ego or something... who knows.

Now I just need a little help with the blaster...

[Legoshrimp]

I forgot to check but do you have the core rulebooks? If not here is a link to the intelligent items section in the srd. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...igentItems.htm

You might want to look at the items against characters section. That is the main reason why a low level player could not use it.

[Superglucose]

I forgot to check but do you have the core rulebooks? If not here is a link to the intelligent items section in the srd. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...igentItems.htm

You might want to look at the items against characters section. That is the main reason why a low level player could not use it.

Yeah that's why I prefer stuff all from core, those are the books I own. And the items against characters was exactly what I was thinking of. I hate all the campaigns were any shmuck can pick up a magic sword. I want my players, after this sword, in deathly fear every time they find out something I give them is magical Analyze Dweomer is a spell for a reason folks!

Plus imagine the great and amazing quest that will come because the person who took the sword is compelled to fireball the town guard captain

Nah I'm kidding, I wouldn't be that evil. But I do hope someone plays a half orc and someone else uses the weapon!

EDIT: I may bump it up to a 18/18/10 just to make it a little more difficult, because I want my characters keeping the weapon away from them until close to epic levels. Plus there's the Locate Creature... that might be good flavorwise...

[Legoshrimp]

Two things one to have the character fireball a guard you do not have to be evil you just have to make the sword evil. Two when you have it in the game tell me how it goes and what happens with the sword.

[Rad]

To Josiah30:

Original post:

Spoiler

Show

So, I'm new the GiantIP forums, and stumbled across this thread. I am working on a build for 1) use in a campaign I am running, probably as a villain, where I will have him as level 12 and the PCs at ~level 10, and 2) use as my pc in a friend's campaign where we start at level 8, going through...well, whatever we get to.

Books available are:
Complete series (Warrior, Adventurer, Mage, Arcane, Divine)
PHB 2
Tome of Battle
Races series (Wild, Stone, Destiny)

The build looks like this:

Race: Gray Elf
Ability score rules: 4d6, highest 3, reroll 1s, 6 sets.
My best set was 17/17/16/14/14/12/10. I am thinking:
Str 14 - 2
Dex 17 + 2
Con 14 - 2
Int 17 +2
Wis 16
Cha 10

With stat bonuses across the levels as:
4: Int
8: Dex
12, 16: Int
20: Undecided

Level structure:
1: Sword Sage
2: Swashbuckler
3: Sword Sage
4: Swashbuckler
5: Sword Sage
6: Swashbuckler
7: Wizard (Abjurer, drop Necromancy and Enchantment schools)
8-12: Abjurant Champion
13: Sword Sage
14-15: Fatespinner
16-20: Jade Phoenix Mage

Total levels are Swordsage 4, Swashbuckler 3, Wizard 1, AbjCh 5, JPMage 5 Fatespinner 2.

BAB total is 17. So is caster level due to AbjCh level 5 ability.

Spells per day will be 4/6/6/5/4/4/3 with an additional abjuration spell per level. The specializing is mostly for roleplay than actual usefulness...if I was going for usefulness I'd specialize in evocation.

Initiator level is 9. Main focus here will be Blood in the Water stance to go with using rapier and kukri, both of which will (ideally) be keen.

Feats:
1: Weapon Focus (Diamond Mind) from Swordsage, Two Weapon Fighting.
2: Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler)
3: Quick Draw
6: Combat Casting
7: Alertness (Wizard's Familiar)
9: Battle Casting
12: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15: Spell Penetration
18: Energy Abjuration

Any thoughts? I was considering going into the bladesinger class rather than jade phoenix, but the single weapon requisite kills it for me, as well as the slower caster progression. Also I'm not sure on which order to take the JPM and the fatespinner in. I originally had it flipped from that...

I'll try to make a few suggestion without changing the build too much.

1a- Why do you need Quick Draw? Most characters can well go without it unless you think you'll have to use several different weapons in the same combat. Since you didn't post your spells and maneuvers it's hard to tell what you want your character to actually do. Remember that if you have a BAB of +1 or more you can draw a weapon as part of a movement. This relates to:

1b- You need one hand free to cast spells with somatic or material components and since you took TWF I think you plan to have your hands full. That would mean that you need the feat Somatic Weaponry (Complete Mage, but I could be wrong on the source) that allows you to use a weapon you hold to make the somatic component of the spell. Depending on your spell list materials could be a problem as well.
Alternatively you can get a 2-handed weapon and use free actions to free one hand and then regrip. In this case drop Quick Draw all the same but get Power Attack instead and put that True Strike spell to good use when you get it.

2- Your initiator level is actually 14. Non-martial artist classes contribute for 1/2 to IL. Rework the first seven levels as
Swordsage
Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler
Swordsage
Swashbuckler
Wizard
Swordsage
So that you get IL 5 at level 7 and can choose 3rd level maneuvers. You might (I don't remember) swap some maneuvers on your second Swordsage level. If so, you can then swap a first-level maneuver for a 2nd level one as your IL is 3 at level 4.
Likewise, take one level of fatespinner at lvl13 and Swordsage at level 14; then your IL is 9 and you can get a 5th level maneuver swapping a 1st level one. That is, unless you:

3- Fatespinner is nice, but I'd get more JPM instead. You've penalized your maneuvers much already and they are worth more than low fatespinner abilities to you (see next point). You do lose a caster level (as in spells per day) but you also gain one CL (due to higher BAB). Also note that you get the CL now and lose the Caster level as per spells per day at... uh, level 20. If you get there. there is also a way out of this drawback as well, see below.

4- The spells come in too late (and then are not very effective), so I think you have to consider yourself a martial artist with some spells rather than a full caster. Spell DCs are not going to be great since you have no room for Spell Focus and the spell levels are lower than expected from full casters at that level. For that reason I'd just go easy on Int (you need what- 16 to cast all your spells?)since DCs are going to be low any way. Do not get spells with saves and focus on buffing (if you MUST do damage with spells instead of maneuvers use rays). Buffing has no saves and can do great things for a meleer (Lesser Rod of Metamagic: Quicken+True Strike? Seriously, lesser rods of quicken are your friend.) and rays are OK since your ranged AB is good. Abjuration specialization is fine and, mechanically, it is much better than Evocation (most optimizers take that as a banned school actually).

5- Depending on the maneuvers you want to pick, you might replace Swordsage with Warblade. Warblade would offer more Int synergy, more HP (that you could use) and allow you to put the 16 in Con rather than Wis. Warblade also has a slightly better recovery method as well. Keep in mind that you only get your low-level maneuvers via Swordsage levels and that all your high-level maneuvers are coming from JPM anyway. The switch would also increase your BAB (and then CL).
The switch also gives you back the spellcasting level you lost when you traded Fatespinner with JPM. You can get into Abjurant Champion at level 7 (you now qualify due to the Warblade full BAB). You miss 3rd level maneuvers at level 7 but you get better ones later via JPM and, since you swap one warblade level for JPM's 7th level you get one wizard casting level back.
Onlòy that, you get it earlier. The switch allows you to get spells one level earlier for your whole carrier and then "pay" the cost only at JPM6, which happens to be at level 19 (if you get there). Ah, and the CL increase, due to BAB, is right at level 11.

If you do all of this you have the same IL, CL 19 and same spells per day (as Wizard 11: 1 Wizard+5 Ab. Champ.+5 JPM).

PM me if you want more; I don't read this thread often and might miss your answer.
Hope this helps.

Rad

[Josiah30]

I've actually made a few changes to the build already, as follows:


(*BAB, spells/day level/initiator level )

1: Swordsage (focus, Shadow Hand), Exotic proficiency (spiked chain) (0/0/1)
2: Swashbuckler (Weapon Finesse) (1/0/1)
3: Swashbuckler (Shadow Blade) (2/0/2)
4: Wizard (Rat familiar) (2/1/2)
5: Wizard (3/2/3)
6: Swashbuckler (Int to damage, Combat Casting) (4/2/3)
7: Swordsage (Wis to AC) (5/2/4)..tragically I will still only get second level manuevers for this...but the extra caster level is worth it.
8: Abj Champion (6/3/5)
9: Abj Champion (Battle Casting) (7/4)
10: Abj Champion (8/5/6)
11: Abj Champion (9/6)
12: Abj Champion (10/7/7) (Somatic Weaponry) -- will use gloves of storing to this point
13: Jade Phoenix Mage (11/7/8)
14: Jade Phoenix (12/8/9)
15: Jade Phoenix (13/9/10) (Adaptive Style)
16: Jade Phoenix (14/10/11)
17: Jade Phoenix (15/11/12)
18: Jade Phoenix (16/11/13) (Energy Abjuration or Focus: Abjuration)
19: Jade Phoenix (17/12/14)
20: Jade Phoenix (18/13/15)

Gives me full attacks/round, 7th level spells, and some decent maneuvers. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it :)

Thanks for the advice :)

On looking at my spells list...maybe I should be a transmuter instead :)

Spells (Wiz lvl 1) 3 (starting) + 5 + 4 (levels) = 12
Mage Armor
Shield
Magic Missile
True Strike(gotta get the obvious 4 out of the way :) )
Alarm
Comprehend Languages
Enlarge Person
Expeditious Retreat
Identify
Shocking Grasp
Obscuring Mist
Silent Image

Second Level (before scroll purchases, of course)
Owl's Wisdom
Heart of Air (Complete Mage)
Cat's Grace
Arcane Turmoil (Complete Arcane, targeted dispel)

Third Level (lots of scroll purchases will happen at this level)
Fireball
Haste
Protection From Energy
Heart of Water (CM)

Fourth Level
Stoneskin
Enlarge Person, Mass
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Heart of Earth (CM)

Fifth Level
Reciprocal Gyre (CA)
Teleport
Heart of Fire (CM)
Passwall

Sixth Level
Bull's Strength, Mass
Bear's Endurance, Mass
Antimagic Field
Dispel Magic, Greater

Seventh Level (just two here before scroll purchases)
Spell Turning
Ethereal Jaunt

Maneuvers yet to come :)

BTW, how do you put things in a "spoiler" button?

[Rad]

On a rules note, you need to switch 6th and 7th level or you're going to incur multiclassing penalties.

I think that the point of the swashbuckler levels 2 and 3 is to get Int to damage. That is pretty nice, but I think that you should consider if it is worth the cost of two caster levels. An alternative could be
1-Swordsage
2-Swashbuckler
3-Wizard
4-Swordsage (get a 2nd level stance)
5-Wizard
6-Wizard (Get 2nd level spells)
7-Jade Phoenix Mage (IL5)
8-Jade Phoenix Mage
9-13 Abjurant Champion
14-20 Jade Phoenix Mage (IL 9)
(BAB +17; CL 15; IL 15)

That also gets to JPM9, which makes it very viable to make an epic progression for JPM and get bonus epic feats from there.

Taking wizard levels is the only way to keep one swashbuckler level and not get XP penalties, but it serves the purpose well. JPM has no BAB requirements so we can use that to qualify for Abj.Champ. and be back later.

I do not know when you'll get to use shocking grasp exactly; it looks like that all the time your attacks are going to do more damage without using slots. I would also consider Swift Expeditious Retreat (PHBII). Flight is a must, much more than the fireball that will do not-so-impressive damage when you finally get it. Fly is a necessity to get other flying things (like most other mages).

Bull's strength, Mass &Co. are not that great. At that time most of your party will have items providing the same enhancement bonus unless they do not need it and then, well, they do not need it. Remember that you are still several spell levels behind.

On the feats side... you have high Dex and a spiked chain. Then you need Combat Reflexes. e.g.

1-Swordsage
2-Fighter (Weapon Finesse)
3-Fighter (Combat Reflexes)
4-Swordsage
5-Wizard
6-Wizard
7-JPM
8-12 Abjurant Champion
13-20 JPM
(BAB +18; CL 14; IL 15)

So... no Int to damage and 7th level spells. 9th level spells at level 21, which means you can get epic spellcasting right then (if you get there)

Gloves of Storing are a neat trick. Ask the DM if you can apply that to your Gloves of Dexterity +X (you were planning to get them, weren't you?)

I can't lookup your higher level choices right now; maybe tomorrow. I would try very hard to fit Quicken Spell in somehow though.

[Josiah30]

First...I'm pretty set on having the Int to damage part of swashbuckler. I've decided that the damage there is really worthwhile, even if it costs me a couple caster levels. As you say, this is primarily a melee build, and what buffs do I really need above 7th level spells? Shapechange? I should be ok without it :P

So, how about this. If I change race to human, that gives me ability scores of:

14 Str, 17 Dex, 14 Con, 17 Int, 16 Wis, 10 Cha

Then after 8 levels (the starting level) I'll have 18 Dex and 18 Int.

Extra Feat (Combat Reflexes)
Skill points net the same (-1 Int, +1 race)
Damage stays the same (+2 (str*1.5), -1 Dex, -1 Int)
+1 Hit point per level
Higher carrying capacity :)
Spell DC is one lower, but that's not a major concern since almost all my spells are buffs.
-1 AC...at level 8 I'll be able to achieve 26 AC without items. Not fantastic, but good enough. After Nat +1 and Prot +1, 28. Survivable.

Hit dice will be 8 + 2 + 4d10 + 8 + 2d4 + 4 + 1d8 + 2
For a total of 24 + 4*5.5 + 2*2.5 + 1*4.5 = 55

Replace Shocking Grasp with Deflect, Lesser (PHB2). Purchase Expeditious Retreat, Swift (Complete Adventurer) and Karmic Aura (Complete Mage).

I plan on purchasing Flight once I hit third level spells as well as several others. The one enchantment spell I really wish I could cast (heroism) is at this level. I will eventually add a few more evocation (chain lightning, disintegrate) even though they allow saves...I'll have 18 int + int headband, so the saves won't be too low. Eventually I'll buy a manual for +4 innate as well. For now, I will replace fireball with Karmic Backlash (Complete Mage).

Replace Bull's Strength, Mass with Fires of Purity (Complete Divine)
Replace Bear's Endurance, Mass with Karmic Retribution (Complete Mage)

Purchase Energy Absorption (Complete Mage) when I get to 7th level spells.

[Rad]

I'm still not sure about Adaptive Style. You are going to have only 2 maneuvers known not prepared and you'll likely have a couple low level maneuvers at that level that you might not need at all. Then you might be better off in using that full round action to renew maneuvers rather than changing your selection completely. This could neat you Quicken Spell, which you can use to buff and attack in the early rounds.

Battle Casting forbids you to make attacks of opportunity. While not that bad, I'd either take that or Combat Reflexes+EWP (Spiked Chain).

[playswithfire]

I'm still not sure about Adaptive Style. You are going to have only 2 maneuvers known not prepared and you'll likely have a couple low level maneuvers at that level that you might not need at all. Then you might be better off in using that full round action to renew maneuvers rather than changing your selection completely.

Without adaptive style, a swordsage can renew one expended maneuver with a full round action. With adaptive style, they can renew all of their expended maneuvers in one round. So, it's not an unreasonable feat, depending on the maneuvers.

[Josiah30]

Forgot about the battle casting not allowing attacks of opportunity thing. Might change that up.

Also, the DM is allowing our characters to be superpowered...meaning we get a feat every 2 levels instead of every 3, and wizards become spontaneous casters. That is to say, if we know the spell (it's in the spellbook) we can cast it without preparation. He just told me this tonight...So I've adjusted my feat schedule as follows:

1: EWP (Sp. Chain), Combat Reflexes, Focus (Shadow Hand)
2: Finesse, Shadow Blade
3: Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Alertness
4: Combat Casting
6: Somatic Weaponry (saves me 10k gold for something else...major at this level)
8: Adaptive Style
10: Focus (Abjuration)
12: Energy Abjuration
14: Quicken Spell
16, 18, 20: Undecided

Any thoughts on what those could/should be? Some options include practiced spellcaster, Martial Stance, Evasive Reflexes. Evasive reflexes could be incredibly fun, making it practically impossible for people to attack me :)

And, planned maneuvers:

Stance (SS1, IL 1) Island of Blades
Stance (SS2, IL 4) Child of Shadow
Stance (JPM 5, IL 12) Aura of Perfect Order

Starting Maneuvers (SS1, IL1)
Distracting Ember
Burning Blade
Counter Charge
Wolf Fang Strike
Sudden Leap
Mighty Throw

SS2, IL4
Shadow Jaunt

JPM1, IL8
Foehammer
JPM3, IL10
Entangling Blade
JPM5, IL12
Ring of Fire
JPM7, IL14
Inferno Blade

[Burgo McSock]

Can someone please help me? I described what I am after on page 27 (it was the last post on that page ). I really would appreciate with this as I don't really know how to make (or play for that matter) this type of character.

Thanks in advance.

Oh and if there is anything else you need to ask about what I am after go ahead but in all honesty I am pretty easily pleased.

[playswithfire]

Can someone please help me? I described what I am after on page 27 (it was the last post on that page ). I really would appreciate with this as I don't really know how to make (or play for that matter) this type of character.

Thanks in advance.

Oh and if there is anything else you need to ask about what I am after go ahead but in all honesty I am pretty easily pleased.

If your DM will allow this version of Invisible Blade, which I understand to be the original before it was split into invisible blade and master thrower, here's a quick build sketch.

Human Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Invisible Blade 1/Swordsage +1/Invisible Blade for as long as you like

Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
H Carmendine Monk (check with DM on this one; from champions of valor; uses int for monk abilities; might get int to ac in place of wisdom for swordsage)
3 open, probably Two Weapon Fighting
6 shadow blade
9 daring outlaw

Bonus feats: Weapon Focus(shadow hand weapons) from swordsage 1 and Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler 1

At level 5, you've got int to damage with the daggers you're using
6 gets you dex to damage and the Island of Blades stance to help you get your (currently) 1d6 sneak attack
7, your sneak attack goes up one
8 you learn the assassin's stance and get up to 4d6 sneak attack
9, daring outlaw boosts it another 2
10, one more sneak attack to get you to 7d6 sneak attack, BAB 8, plenty of skill points, DEX and INT to damage; DEX and INT to AC in light armor with a friendly DM; or if he wants to say it's only in no armor since it's replacing monk AC, the unfettered defense of invisible blade adding int to DEX up to invisible blade level should help a bit

Important stats are obviously DEX,INT and some CON since most of your hit dice aren't huge.

Let me know what you think of that and I can revise as you like; this is a character idea I had a while ago and thus may not be exactly what you want. There's also a version where he goes into assassin rather than invisble blade, but this is more combat oriented and you said you couldn't be evil anyway

[49888]

This sounds cool, I will give it a go.

My Request:
Q.1. Looking for a level-by-level fighter/rouge. Two-handed proficiency is needed. Some rouge traits. (Able to be a player character.)
Books: Um… You can decide.
Race: Human
Class: Fighter
Ability Scores: Fighter Chain Feats. (Look under the gaming link.)
Alignment: Lawful Evil
House Rules: No real special house rules. Just normal rules.
Concept: I would like an outgoing, funny, fighter/rouge. A natural born leader, and team player.
Other: I am the party’s main fighter. The party is made of; a wizard, an archer, another warrior, and then me, all human. I use a scimitar and am not able to use a shield. All other members of the party are either neutral good or lawful good.

[Josiah30]

49888 -- How important to you are abilities like open lock, disable device, and the like? Or do you mainly want to rely on Bluff etc.? Also, how important is using a scimitar?

Your other requirements could easily become a kukri wielding fighter/rogue/swashbuckler/duelist build. That, or you could take a look at the build that plays with fire just did for the other guy, and it could fit in with what you want as well. It would be possible to even throw in invisible blade.

Something like the following:
Human
Elite Array, Str 14, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10
1: Swashbuckler (Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility)
2: Rogue (Sneak Attack +1d6, trapfinding)
3: Fighter (Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Kukri))
4: Rogue (Evasion), +1 Dex
5: Swashbuckler (Grace +1)
6: Fighter (Two Weapon Fighting, Far Shot)
7: Fighter
8: Rogue (Sneak Attack +2d6, Trap Sense +1), +1 Int
9: Fighter (Specialization (Kukri), Daring Outlaw)
10: Swashbuckler (Insightful Strike)
11: Invisible Blade (Sneak Attack +1d6, Unfettered Defense)
12: Invisible Blade (Bleeding Wound, Improved Two Weapon Fighting), +1 Dex
13: Invisible Blade (Sneak Attack +1d6, Uncanny Feint I)
14: Invisible Blade (Feint Mastery)
15: Invisible Blade (Sneak Attack +3d6, Uncanny Feint II, Elusive Target)
16: Duelist (Canny Defense) +1 Dex
17: Duelist (Improved Reaction +2)
18: Duelist (Enhanced Mobility, Two Weapon Defense)
19: Duelist (Grace)
20: Duelist (Precise Strike +1d6) +1 Dex

This will net you BAB of 19, Sneak Attack 6d6, Int to damage, feint as a free action, lots of bonus armor class when fighting unarmored, tons of skills, and decent hit dice and saves...except will. It should also be very playable from level one through 20.

[merrja666]

A new look on some classic cheese.

I'd like a Spiked Chain Cheesemonger, if you would be so kind.

Gestalt, too.

The campaign's ECL 9-20, and you get a 60-point buy, and max health.

Level progession is greatly appreciated.

[Burgo McSock]

Sounds pretty cool playswithfire. I think I will try this. Do you know which book the Invisible Blade was before they divided it into Invisible Blade and Master Thrower... or which book either of those are in? Thank you very much by the way.

If you have the time I would like to see a more complete build of this, but I think I get the general idea and should be right with it if you don't.

Thanks again,

Burgo

[playswithfire]

As far as I know, the 10-level invisible blade was never actually published in a WotC book; the 5 level Invisible Blade and Master Thrower prestige classes are in Complete Warrior if you want to use them separately, which is doable and would probably work; less sneak attack, but better ranged options. The third level feat would become Far Shot and you'd need to take Precise Shot at 12 to finish the prereqs for Master Thrower (unless you move around Daring Outlaw or Shadow Blade or take a flaw). The 5-level invisible blade does progress feinting faster, but gives less sneak attack and bleeding wounds and has that extra feat requirement.

If I get a chance, I'll try to throw together a full level 20 build. After Invisible Blade and Master Thrower, or possibly after Invisible Blade and before Master Thrower, I'd consider dipping one level of Warblade so you can take Bloodstorm Blade (both ToB). That's assuming you want to get more into thrown attacks; if you want to focus on melee, I'll see if I can find another good sneak attack granting class.

[SamTheCleric]

I'm drawn to the Duskblade class because of the ability to deal wicked damage with the channeled spell ability. I've had some thoughts on feat development, but I'm not familiar with enough to know what would be useful. Since I'll be starting at level 1, AC will be a problem for a while . . . only light armor, probably a two-handed weapon. So . . .

1. I need a Duskblade starting at level 1, 25 point buy. Realistically, this character probably won't make it past level 10.

2. Race: Human
Material that can be used: Anything published by WoTC
Books I have access to: All Completes, PHB I/II, DMG I/II, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, Races of Wild/Stone/Destiny, Miniatures Handbook, Unearthed Arcana

Thanks a bunch for the help!

I don't know exactly how useful this will be... but I'll give it a shot.

Duskblade 7/Abjurant Champion 4... would get you Medium Armor, Heavy Shield and a bunch of versatility with your spells, including increasing your martial prowess using Abjurant Champion abilities. May not be the most optimized build... but I think it'd be fun to play.

Full BAB, 7d8+4d10 HP, +6 Fort, +3 Ref, +9 Will

H- Power Attack
1- Ex Weapon Prof Bastard Sword
2- Combat Casting
3- Shield Specialization (Heavy)
6- Shield Ward
9- ??? (something caster-y)

[SamTheCleric]

As an addendum to my request above (#818), I've settled on the two weapon fighter. I've done some preliminary statting, I would just need some help with manuevers/stances... as well as criticism on what I've come up with so far...

Stats

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STR 14, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 10

I could drop Int and Cha to 8s... but usually I don't like having negative stat mods.

Progression

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Human Swordsage 11
1- Adaptive Style, Shadow Blade
3- Weapon Finesse
4- +1 Wisdom
6- Two Weapon Fighting
8- +1 Dexterity
9- Improved Two Weapon Fighting

The weapon finesse is iffy... but I will be focusing on dex and wis more with items and stat bumps.

Again, thank you for taking the time to consider this.

[Rad]

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Forgot about the battle casting not allowing attacks of opportunity thing. Might change that up.

Also, the DM is allowing our characters to be superpowered...meaning we get a feat every 2 levels instead of every 3, and wizards become spontaneous casters. That is to say, if we know the spell (it's in the spellbook) we can cast it without preparation. He just told me this tonight...So I've adjusted my feat schedule as follows:

1: EWP (Sp. Chain), Combat Reflexes, Focus (Shadow Hand)
2: Finesse, Shadow Blade
3: Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Alertness
4: Combat Casting
6: Somatic Weaponry (saves me 10k gold for something else...major at this level)
8: Adaptive Style
10: Focus (Abjuration)
12: Energy Abjuration
14: Quicken Spell
16, 18, 20: Undecided

Any thoughts on what those could/should be? Some options include practiced spellcaster, Martial Stance, Evasive Reflexes. Evasive reflexes could be incredibly fun, making it practically impossible for people to attack me :)

And, planned maneuvers:

Stance (SS1, IL 1) Island of Blades
Stance (SS2, IL 4) Child of Shadow
Stance (JPM 5, IL 12) Aura of Perfect Order

Starting Maneuvers (SS1, IL1)
Distracting Ember
Burning Blade
Counter Charge
Wolf Fang Strike
Sudden Leap
Mighty Throw

SS2, IL4
Shadow Jaunt

JPM1, IL8
Foehammer
JPM3, IL10
Entangling Blade
JPM5, IL12
Ring of Fire
JPM7, IL14
Inferno Blade

I forgot about the Swordsage recovery method; I'm all for Adaptive Style if things are as playswithfire says

If you plan to play out AoO's Thicket of Blades is excellent (IIRC it's Devoted Spirit, so you need a feat to get it as a martial stance).
Elusive Target could be very nice but I guess that an enemy can just keep moving. You can disrupt a charge with it though. More fun would be Improved Trip, but it also needs Combat Expertise as a prerequisite.

Practiced Spellcaster is solid; I'd add Improved Initiative to the list (and maybe adding Nerveskitter, or whateve it's called, to the list of spells known. Sp.Comp.). Arcane Strike (CWar) can be good if you plan to go nova often i.e. if you end up having more spells each day than you can cast. It uses no action so you can burn any number of spells on it, taking the best bonus to hit and adding the extra damage.

That's all I can think of. I'm not reviewing your maneuvers since the only time I actually used them it was a low level crusader and I have no idea about Setting Sun.