LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

[Jacklu]

Welcome, one and all.

This is a thread where we Playgrounders, and LGBTAitp in particular, gather to discuss, share our experiences, give general advice and support one another in such matters as arise relating to, well, the world beyond heteronormaitivity.

• Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
• Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
• It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
• Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe )

If you would rather be anonymous when asking for advice or sharing your story or views, you can use the address below to send a message to be posted in this thread via proxy.

http://anonmail.smeenet.org/

Keep in mind that content which contain strong language may be filtered (Plus, y'know, the forum-filters), and content that violates the forum rules won't be posted at all.

Here are the links for the last few threads, where much of use or interest may be found:

1. LGBT people in the playground
   
2. LGBT people in the playground - part II
   
3. LGBTitp - part III
   
4. LGBTitp 4: We are a family?
   
5. LGBTitp - Part Five
   
6. LGBTitp - Part Six
   
7. LGBTitp - Part Seven
   
8. LGBTitp - Part Eight
   
9. LGBTitp - Part Nine
   
10. LGBTitp - Part Ten
    
11. LGBTitp - Part Eleven

*modified from the original.

[Jokasti]

New thread, woooo!
Does anyone have any good LGBT humor related sites?

[golentan]

New thread, woooo!
Does anyone have any good LGBT humor related sites?

El Goonish Shive is a nice funny comic with lots and lots of LGBT themes. So... many... LGBT themes...

[Coidzor]

El Goonish Shive is a nice funny comic with lots and lots of LGBT themes. So... many... LGBT themes...

Though definitely not for everyone.

That was more taking limbs away.

Well, that and there was the man who was reduced into something more akin to a gibbon than a man. And I wasn't meaning it in the sense of a nice application of the technology anyway.

[golentan]

Though definitely not for everyone.

So? I think it's worth trying, and it was the first thing that leapt to mind. Jokasti may not love it, but it deserves more love so I plug it when I get the chance.

[unosarta]

Mmmm, new thread smell.

I have a question. Does anyone have some good arguments for gay marriage, and why it should be legal, besides the usual ones that are brought up. Some kids in my Social Studies class were talking about how gay people should just do domestic partnership, and I didn't really argue with them about it mostly because a) they were across the room, and yelling at them seemed like a bad idea, and b) that I couldn't really come up with any arguments. Afterwards, me and my teacher and a friend were talking about it, and that one's insurance goes up when you are on the same plan in a domestic partnership as compared to a marriage, and that you lose out on a lot of rights as a domestic partner as compared to a married person. Does anyone else have a compelling argument if this comes up again (which I have the feeling it might )?

[Coidzor]

So?

Suffice to say I figure any comic that makes me drop it deserves a YMMV.

[Lioness]

New thread, woooo!
Does anyone have any good LGBT humor related sites?

LGBTLaughs is a good one

[MoriHikari]

Yay new thread!

[Danne]

Mmmm, new thread smell.

I have a question. Does anyone have some good arguments for gay marriage, and why it should be legal, besides the usual ones that are brought up. Some kids in my Social Studies class were talking about how gay people should just do domestic partnership, and I didn't really argue with them about it mostly because a) they were across the room, and yelling at them seemed like a bad idea, and b) that I couldn't really come up with any arguments. Afterwards, me and my teacher and a friend were talking about it, and that one's insurance goes up when you are on the same plan in a domestic partnership as compared to a marriage, and that you lose out on a lot of rights as a domestic partner as compared to a married person. Does anyone else have a compelling argument if this comes up again (which I have the feeling it might )?

Civil unions relegate gays and lesbians (and, of course, bisexuals who happen to be in a gay relationship) to second class citizens. It says to us, "You're not good enough to get what we have, but we'll toss you this bone because we're so nice and magnanimous."

[Serpentine]

Long post PMed for religious and political content.

[rayne_dragon]

Mmmm, new thread smell.

I have a question. Does anyone have some good arguments for gay marriage, and why it should be legal, besides the usual ones that are brought up. Some kids in my Social Studies class were talking about how gay people should just do domestic partnership, and I didn't really argue with them about it mostly because a) they were across the room, and yelling at them seemed like a bad idea, and b) that I couldn't really come up with any arguments. Afterwards, me and my teacher and a friend were talking about it, and that one's insurance goes up when you are on the same plan in a domestic partnership as compared to a marriage, and that you lose out on a lot of rights as a domestic partner as compared to a married person. Does anyone else have a compelling argument if this comes up again (which I have the feeling it might )?

Interestingly, in a quick search most of the arguments for gay marriage seems largely to consist of debunking the reasons against it. Sample link (that I haven't finished reading yet).

Reasons I can think of in favour of:

We're people too, we should have the right to express our feelings for our partner(s) the same way heterosexual people can.

Gender issues. When you limit marriage to a man and a woman specifically, how do you define "man" and "woman?" No matter how you define it you start to run into problems. Chromosonally? By gonads? Genitals? None of those work as good definitions of gender because no matter what there are people whose gender doesn't match what they would be determined by those factors. Even if we just let it be defined by the person in question, there's still problems because not everyone fits nicely into the categories of "man" and "woman." I don't, nor do I really want to. I like standing a little apart in the middle of gender (at least when nobody's making me feel bad about it and sometimes even then). It seems to me that it's easier just to let people marry whoever wants to get married with them regardless of gender (or amibiguity or lack thereof).

[Vaynor]

Long post PMed for religious and political content.

All forum rules apply everywhere on the board, including private messages. If you want to talk with someone about something that is against forum rules, do it elsewhere.

[Mystic Muse]

El Goonish Shive is a nice funny comic with lots and lots of LGBT themes. So... many... LGBT themes...

I'm afraid I must thank you and curse you.

I must thank you because I find this comic to be awesome.

I must curse you because I'm supposed to be doing school.

[Nano]

So, the absolute minimum date for my SRS is 5/10/12. Woo!

[golentan]

I'm afraid I must thank you and curse you.

I must thank you because I find this comic to be awesome.

I must curse you because I'm supposed to be doing school.

Youi'm sorrwelcome.

So. Poetry reading went well. I barely damped my clothes with sweat, turned a red three shades lighter than I thought I would, and only had two minor heart attacks.

Umm... Evidently I need to work on the fact I overuse cliches.

[Worira]

Mmmm, new thread smell.

I have a question. Does anyone have some good arguments for gay marriage, and why it should be legal, besides the usual ones that are brought up. Some kids in my Social Studies class were talking about how gay people should just do domestic partnership, and I didn't really argue with them about it mostly because a) they were across the room, and yelling at them seemed like a bad idea, and b) that I couldn't really come up with any arguments. Afterwards, me and my teacher and a friend were talking about it, and that one's insurance goes up when you are on the same plan in a domestic partnership as compared to a marriage, and that you lose out on a lot of rights as a domestic partner as compared to a married person. Does anyone else have a compelling argument if this comes up again (which I have the feeling it might )?

Substitute mixed-race for gay. Apply same arguments.

[Mystic Muse]

So, the absolute minimum date for my SRS is 5/10/12. Woo!

That doesn't seem too terribly bad. Although, to be fair, I kind of have a warped sense of time for not even being 18.

Golentan, I have to mention again how much this comic rocks at the moment.

Substitute mixed-race for gay. Apply same arguments.

Also, remind them "All men are created equal".

[golentan]

That doesn't seem too terribly bad. Although, to be fair, I kind of have a warped sense of time for not even being 18.

Ha. I called someone up a year and a half after I last promised to speak to them soon and couldn't understand why they were getting so worked up after such a brief delay.

Anyhoo, I can't think of any arguments for gay marriage that do not hinge on debunking arguments against. The whole thing is a social structure that exists in a vacuum. People get married because they love each other and want to commit to that, but marriage is not required to demonstrate love or commitment. People get married for legal and financial benefits, but those benefits exist as written solely because people get married, and many if not all can be gained through other methods. Ultimately, I can't think of a single reason justifying the existence of the institution apart from people want it.

And that's good enough for me. Because if people want something, and don't have to harm the innocent to get it, the rest of the world can go choke so far as I'm concerned if they don't like it.

[Worira]

Leading, I suppose, to the strategy of asking them to provide arguments for the need for straight marriage.

[The Shadowmind]

New thread, woooo!
Does anyone have any good LGBT humor related sites?

http://www.transe-generation.com/default.php, is somewhat humorous, even though it is poorly drawn and some panels that might not be safe for work and is pretty much abandoned.

[Worira]

Have you had your daily dose of adorable? Probably not, since I'm posting this at midnight PST.

[Lix Lorn]

So, the absolute minimum date for my SRS is 5/10/12. Woo!

Wow, congrats! (hugs)
(envyyyy)

[Coidzor]

Leading, I suppose, to the strategy of asking them to provide arguments for the need for straight marriage.

Have to admit, never much saw the point of it beyond something that'd just been grandfathered in from when people were paranoid about property inheritance and making sure they were actually raising their own sprog.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I want to point out that in many countries (example: Russia), civil union is the "official" marriage, while marriage itself is a purely religious ceremony. Heck, in there the main part of the ceremony is at the registration office instead of the church (if there even is a ceremony in church). In countries with such laws/traditions, how would it relegate gay couples to second class? Assuming, of course, it's legal in a hypothetical country we're talking about, since Russia is a bad example with its almost institutionalized homophobia.

I'll stop here and won't make inferences since it can cross into politics.

[Serpentine]

I want to point out that in many countries (example: Russia), civil union is the "official" marriage, while marriage itself is a purely religious ceremony. Heck, in there the main part of the ceremony is at the registration office instead of the church (if there even is a ceremony in church). In countries with such laws/traditions, how would it relegate gay couples to second class? Assuming, of course, it's legal in a hypothetical country we're talking about, since Russia is a bad example with its almost institutionalized homophobia.

I'll stop here and won't make inferences since it can cross into politics.

I, personally, would be fine with that sort of system, as long as the "civil union" is available to/necessary for all couples, and the churches get to make their own decisions.

[rakkoon]

I want to point out that in many countries (example: Russia), civil union is the "official" marriage, while marriage itself is a purely religious ceremony

There are countries where this is different? Again I learn something new from the internets...

[Asta Kask]

Sweden is different.

Questionable Content does not shy away from LGBT stuff (although it's not a major theme).

[Delusion]

So, the absolute minimum date for my SRS is 5/10/12. Woo!

Congratulations, Nano!

[Callista]

With the gay marriage thing--wouldn't that work as an argument for the opposite, too? If a civil partnership is for all practical purposes identical to a marriage, then why not make it a marriage (or make all marriages civil partnerships)? The only thing left over is an artificial distinction between straight and gay marriages--little more than a political statement that they aren't equal, when in reality they are...