Monk Weapons

[MightyIgoo]

Look at the Brass Knuckles

vorpal fists

vorpal fists

VORPAL FISTS

VORPAL FISTS

I is excited.

[Cogidubnus]

vorpal fists

vorpal fists

VORPAL FISTS

VORPAL FISTS

I is excited.

If you can make your fists slashing.

[Keld Denar]

One reason I can think of for monks to use weapons isn't damage, but rather the weapons special abilities; for example: kama for trip attacks, nunchaku and sai for disarming, quarterstaff for TWF, shuriken just... to do more than scratch their rear if they can't reach an enemy?

Because nobody addressed this...
You don't need a kama to trip. Tripping with a kama doesn't give you any bonus to trip. The only benefit it gives you is that you can elect to drop the Kama if you fail to trip your foe to avoid being counter-tripped. Otherwise, you can trip just fine with an UAS.

As for disarming, you are better off disarming with a quarterstaff than you are with a sai or nunchaku. Sure, they a +2 bonus by virtue of being "disarming" weapons, but they also suffer a -4 penalty for being light. If you disarm with a quarterstaff, you get a +6 bonus OVER the bonus you get from a sai, after all bonuses and penalties are applied. Thats...ouch.

If you can make your fists slashing.

Versatile Unarmed Strike says "hi!".

[Daftendirekt]

vorpal fists

vorpal fists

VORPAL FISTS

VORPAL FISTS

I is excited.

Yeah... no. Vorpal = slashing. Brass Knuckles = bludgeoning.

[The Cat Goddess]

Well, since a Monk's hands are considered manufactured weapons... and thus, both Greater Magic Fang & Greater Magic Weapon work on them...

And you can Permenancy Greater Magic Fang...

You could, theoretically, put Weapon Crystals into your Fists.

Also, you could always go Kensai.

[Cogidubnus]

Well, since a Monk's hands are considered manufactured weapons... and thus, both Greater Magic Fang & Greater Magic Weapon work on them...

And you can Permenancy Greater Magic Fang...

You could, theoretically, put Weapon Crystals into your Fists.

Also, you could always go Kensai.

You could even have WEAPON CRYSTALS FOR FISTS!!!

Apologies.

[MightyIgoo]

If you can make your fists slashing.

Awwwwww........ I is sad.


... Unless I spend a feat on Versatile Unarmed Strike. Which is probably a waste. So I guess my dream of punching mooks' heads off is ruined.

[Cogidubnus]

Awwwwww........ I is sad.


... Unless I spend a feat on Versatile Unarmed Strike. Which is probably a waste. So I guess my dream of punching mooks' heads off is ruined.

Well, not really. Just do Shock Trooper tactics with a Monk xD

[McSmack]

As a DM I've always been big on letting players have the kind of characters they want. I've always allowed Monks to use their unarmed damage or the base damage of the weapon, whichever is greater -with the caveat that I can nerf it at will if I think it's being abused. So far there haven't been any problems. If one develops I usually just kill off the character then laugh about it while my player weeps. But I kick it old school.

[Miscast_Mage]

Because nobody addressed this...
You don't need a kama to trip. Tripping with a kama doesn't give you any bonus to trip. The only benefit it gives you is that you can elect to drop the Kama if you fail to trip your foe to avoid being counter-tripped. Otherwise, you can trip just fine with an UAS.

I never said you couldn't trip without a weapon. It just gives that; a slight benefit.

As for disarming, you are better off disarming with a quarterstaff than you are with a sai or nunchaku. Sure, they a +2 bonus by virtue of being "disarming" weapons, but they also suffer a -4 penalty for being light. If you disarm with a quarterstaff, you get a +6 bonus OVER the bonus you get from a sai, after all bonuses and penalties are applied. Thats...ouch.

I've seen a slight RAW arguement on whether or not sai and nunchaku suffer a total of +2/0 (sai actually gives +4 to disarming. Also, wouldn't a staff just be +4?) or +4/+2, but whatever; I know enough not to try and explain WotC's reasoning for their mechanics.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yeah... no. Vorpal = slashing. Brass Knuckles = bludgeoning.

Attatch a a razorblade to the part of the knuckles that comes into contact with the flesh?

[Miscast_Mage]

Attatch a a razorblade to the part of the knuckles that comes into contact with the flesh?

You could argue that it's like a punch dagger, as well. Though then you have to convince the DM to allow you your unarmed damage with a punch dagger(or there abouts), but it's progress, at least.

[Cogidubnus]

There is a Vorpal Strike Epic feat...

[Miscast_Mage]

There is a Vorpal Strike Epic feat...

Yeeeeaaah... But that be, y'know, epic. Then again, a whole lot of epic feats should just be regular feats and vice versa.

[fracas]

I usually house rules that monks using weapons do their unarmed damage PLUS their weapon damage. It makes Monks a bit less of a suckfest, especially considering that my players don't optimize much and therefore aren't finding all kinds of little tricks to make monks anything but a walking heap of fail that they don't know is a walking heap of fail until they get into combat and end up being very disappointed.

I also houserule that Monks get full BAB, but replace Flurry with either Northern School (treat unarmed strikes at 2H weapons and free Improved Trip; increase Power Attack multiplier by 1 at lvl 6) or Southern School (free Improved Grapple or Improved Disarm and Dex to damage at lvl 6). Might be broken in the hands of a high op player, but I only have one of those and he doesn't play monks. Also, every class is broken in the hands of a high-op player so whatever. If players bring broken characters, they can expect their characters to be broken. :)

<rant>I'm not a big fan of 4e, but I love how fast turns go in it. High level beaters already take too long with their iterative attacks, and TWF/Flurry/crit fishing/Haste is just bleak, especially in a big party and/or inefficient players. Crit fishers should get better crit threats rather than more iteratives (let them drop a couple attacks to get auto-confirming crits a la 4e), and weapon damage should just be maximized a la 4e. Players should never get more than 2-3 attacks.</rant>

[Curmudgeon]

Well, since a Monk's hands are considered manufactured weapons... and thus, both Greater Magic Fang & Greater Magic Weapon work on them...

And you can Permenancy Greater Magic Fang...

You could, theoretically, put Weapon Crystals into your Fists.

The bolded part is needlessly restrictive. Unarmed strike isn't limited to hands; you can also use kicks, head butts, elbow jabs, hip checks ─ any strike your form can dish out. Your whole body is the weapon, so the weapon augment crystal can go anywhere on that body; it doesn't have to be on a fist where it would attract attention.

[fracas]

Good points - monks' entire bodies are considered weapons... which, methinks, makes them legal targets for sundering.

...

What kind of penalties does a monk take if you sunder his nuts? :o

[The Cat Goddess]

The bolded part is needlessly restrictive. Unarmed strike isn't limited to hands; you can also use kicks, head butts, elbow jabs, hip checks ─ any strike your form can dish out. Your whole body is the weapon, so the weapon augment crystal can go anywhere on that body; it doesn't have to be on a fist where it would attract attention.

Yes, but the idea is "The Rule of Cool".

"I jam this gemstone into the back of my hand so I can pimpslap the ghost!"

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, but the idea is "The Rule of Cool".

"I jam this gemstone into the back of my hand so I can pimpslap the ghost!"

I prefer the gem in the navel fashion statement, followed by a full body slam.

[MeeposFire]

Sounds like the Darkwing Duck "Belly Bounce".

[Ravens_cry]

I remember an immortal from prehistoric times in some comic book who had a jewel lodged in the centre of his chest, over his heart. That is how I imagine it anyway. Either that, or stuck in the brow like a bindi.

[archon_huskie]

You can also inscribe a symbol of death on the shruiken. Full plate Enemy gets struck, looks at shruiken sticking harmlessly out of his armor. falls over dead.

[Curmudgeon]

You can also inscribe a symbol of death on the shruiken. Full plate Enemy gets struck, looks at shruiken sticking harmlessly out of his armor. falls over dead.

Sorry, but there's nothing left to look at after impact.

Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons), and what happens to them after they are thrown.

[Keld Denar]

The bolded part is needlessly restrictive. Unarmed strike isn't limited to hands; you can also use kicks, head butts, elbow jabs, hip checks ─ any strike your form can dish out. Your whole body is the weapon, so the weapon augment crystal can go anywhere on that body; it doesn't have to be on a fist where it would attract attention.

Which leads to an interesting predicament when you take a few Kensi levels and enchant your UAS with the Brilliant Energy property. Every part of your body is a weapon, and thus every part of your body passes through non-living matter.

Its the no clipping cheat code for the whole world.

[archon_huskie]

Sorry, but there's nothing left to look at after impact.

Ah yes, my group ignores that in most of our games because we think that's stupid (in most cases anyway, ie: shooting an arrow into a solid rock wall should break it, but it should survive the impact into most targets)

The DM might go with mithril or adamantium shuriken being more resistant for this trick.

[Ravens_cry]

Which leads to an interesting predicament when you take a few Kensi levels and enchant your UAS with the Brilliant Energy property. Every part of your body is a weapon, and thus every part of your body passes through non-living matter.

Its the no clipping cheat code for the whole world.

Better damn well hope you have some form of fly, because, depending on how gravity works in that world, you're now plummeting to the centre of the planet.
*blows smoke from gun as I survey the small pile of dead catgirls*

[Cogidubnus]

Which leads to an interesting predicament when you take a few Kensi levels and enchant your UAS with the Brilliant Energy property. Every part of your body is a weapon, and thus every part of your body passes through non-living matter.

Its the no clipping cheat code for the whole world.

Don't walk down. Don't. Walk. Down.

[Souhiro]

Well, the whole thing about some monsters that do some damage if you touch them is covered. And the thing about that some monk weapons give you special attacks, like Trip or Disarm.

But a monk can use magic weapons. And that is a plus. That +2 or +3.

And don't forget the whole DR thing. If you're fighting zombies, they have some DR unless you're using slashing weapons. So it don't mind if your Lvl-20 monk has Ki Strike Adamantine, since your fists are Blunt weapons. True, your "Blunt Knucles" will do 2D8 and your kama will do 1D6, but your GM surely will have homebrewed for you an "Extra Sharp Kama of 2D6" or something.

In low levels, a Cold Iron Kama, or Silver Nunchakus aren't THAT expensive, and you can use your unarmed strike with your feet while you carry the weapons in your hands "Only if you need to".

And don't forget: If you go to Acererak's, you can only damage him with vorpal weapons. Unless you're epic and have Vorpal Strike or carry a Vorpal (Monk) Weapon... well. Carry a comfy chair and sit down to see your partners to do all the work, because you can only sit down and see.

[The Cat Goddess]

Also, the Scorpion Kama in the Magic Item Compendium is enchanted (in some unexplained way) to deal damage equal to your unarmed strike +1 (+1 for the base enchantment).

[Jayabalard]

Also, good luck making your fists Cold Iron or Silver.

Well, you can manage that with levels of Kensai (along with the vorpal bit).