Recommend me a system for a campaign!

[Raishi Fox]

So here's the dilemma. I'm a semi-experienced GM, I've run several long running games, almost all 3.5E and Pathfinder, as well as a bit of VtM. I've had a campaign storyline in my head for years now that I've been working on a bit at a time, and it's almost at the point where I'm ready to pitch it to some of my preferred players and try to get it started.

The one remaining detail being, I can't find a system that works well for all parts of it.

The issue that's making things difficult is that the campaign I have in my head includes a drastic power level and style shift halfway though. Basically...okay, I'm not sure how well I can explain what I need without some idea of the campaign, so let me sum it up as quickly as I can...though it still likely won't be that quick, sorry.


The campaign setting is a world composed of one large main continent and a massive chain of distant islands at "the edge of the world". In the past, the islands were considered less hospitable, and humanity lived almost entirely on the mainland. Long in the past, magic was discovered and refined, and used to create a perhaps not quite utopian, but certainly very pleasant society. Unfortunately, as with any source of power, some could never get enough, and in the end, experiments with the land's magic went out of control; it took on a life of its own and after a long and doomed fight, the land itself became too dangerous for human survival; the remaining peoples all fled to the islands and started a new, magic-less, primarily nautical civilization there.

A couple of hundred years later, their knowledge of their old home is little more than mythology. They know it's -there-, of course, but what remains of it is an unknown. Law forbids travel there, to prevent accidentally bringing back the magic that they feel destroyed their civilization. Religions have sprung up over it, the dominant one believing that it's essentially hell itself. Humanity being humanity, of course there have been attempts to go back, but they have never succeeded; most explorers never return, the few that did were turned back almost immediately by conditions they barely survived. Now, most are content to consider it another world and keep to their own on the islands.

The land's magic is beginning to reach further into the waters around it than anyone realizes, though, and one ship on a cross-oceanic voyage is about to come a little too close. The players begin shipwrecked on the island with little in the way of tools or knowledge to survive a hostile land, and the first part of the campaign is going to stick mostly with this theme.

The trick is that, they'll eventually find the means to send a message back to their home for help - without realizing that their government has been taken over by a religious faction, who views the land as basically an evil remnant of humanity's past, which needs to be eradicated for them to redeem themselves, destroying all traces of magic in the process if possible. They'll be pumped for information, only to find out that they've just helped launch a holy war against the land - just in time to start discovering the truth about it. The magic that their ancestors unleashed has grown into something literally alive, and while it's still wild and dangerous, it's only because it's still very much a child, with no understanding of humanity. Already though, it's becoming something beautiful beyond anything in history - now that they've set into motion a machine that plans to grind it to dust.

This part's going to be tricky, since I need to play the players' feelings about the land, and keep it timed just right so that they quite drastically change their minds about it just a -bit- too late, but the players are going to find themselves going from trying to escape the land by any means necessary to desperately trying to find a way to protect it against the combined might of the largest army humanity has but together in a century.

Fortunately, aligning themselves with an untamed child god has its advantages. As their allegiance shifts toward protecting the land and they grow attached to it, the land's magic begins to lend itself to the player characters and become part of its new guardians; they'll gradually go from ordinary survivors to essentially near-demigods themselves.

This is the catching point for me. I need a classless system, as I don't want any sort of linear character progression; at first they'll be developing survival skills, but later on they'll be taking on extensive supernatural powers. I don't want the players confined to predetermined roles, either, I want them to develop the abilities the land grants them according to their own styles. The tough part is, I need a system that will be able to handle both ends of the power scale. So far I've had GURPS and Hero system recommended to me, but GURPS seems like it will handle the first half of the game well but mostly fall apart and become extremely cumbersome at high power levels, where Hero System seems like it's not going to lack detail in the first half of the game, as well as being perhaps just a bit awkward in places, like the speed table.

Also, I'm trying to keep the campaign RP heavy, with fewer battles, but making the ones that do happen actually important (no random goblin mashes, the vast majority of battles should feel like they matter). I'd like to make them fairly big, tactical battles, so I don't want a system that's too rules-light, I want something with a solid combat component.

So, I'm leaning towards Hero System for the moment, despite my misgivings, since it seems like it's at least closest to what I need, and it will give the players a lot of freedom with developing their powers when they attain them later in the game. However, I'm definitely open to any other suggestions; I'm sure there are tons of great systems I don't know anything about, or some I may have overlooked for the wrong reasons. For anyone that's still reading by this point...thoughts?

[Friv]

Well, there's a massive errata revision for Exalted in the pipeline that's supposed to hit this week. If it does, and if it works as well as people are suggesting, it could work for your setting. Have the players play as humans using the ruleset for the first chunk of the game, and then give them Exaltations to represent the island empowering them.

[Burnheart]

Well, there's a massive errata revision for Exalted in the pipeline that's supposed to hit this week. If it does, and if it works as well as people are suggesting, it could work for your setting. Have the players play as humans using the ruleset for the first chunk of the game, and then give them Exaltations to represent the island empowering them.

nWoD rules could also work like this (without the Dark fluff of course) Start as mortals and make them, hmm Changlings or Mages perhaps? When they reach the supernatural power stage.

[LibraryOgre]

My kneejerk for something like this is going to be d6, probably Fantasy. It is free, simple, non-linear advancement, and you can start opening up magic powers to them later, either through bonus CPs or by letting players invest in them (or a combination). It has a good default system, so your non-survival oriented players can default to their attribute to avoid starving to death. You can also use some of the more powerful Advantages to represent divine favor, if you like.

[Raishi Fox]

Thanks! Looking into all of them a bit. Exalted might work really well; I think I'll hold off on the new revision, but if it's getting good reviews, I might have to go pick up the core book for it.

[Tavar]

I'd suggest something like Hero system: when they get the power up, change the nature of the game from normal heroic to superheroic, thus giving them more options for powers.

Mutants and Masterminds could also work, though I've never played it. I guess you'd start out with them being lower Power Level, and then have the PL jump once they're at that stage.

[Riverdance]

Cortex RPG. The most wide-reaching and versatile system I've come across. Same system as Serenity except without the serenity part. As is, it's applicable to almost anything.

[eggs]

I'm going to go with Qin.

It has no classes, relatively simple rules, the potential for meaningful mechanical differentiation between characters and a broad scope of potential power levels working within the same game. The low end of the power spectrum has peasants who face real dangers just going out to hunt wild game. The high end has heroes able to bounce hundreds of yards between the tips of trees amid a forest fire.

It would even be relatively simple to tack supernatural abilities onto mundane characters - the Chi mechanic is an explicit differentiation between mortals and heroes in the game. As long as you don't grant the player characters Chi, the game is held on the mortal spectrum.

There is a bit of character development built into the system, but it's minor and slow. The main numeric metric of character achievement is Renown, which isn't reflected in a mechanical sense.

Qin has a very specifically wuxia feel. If that's not your cup of tea, skip it. If it's something that interests you, I'd definitely recommend checking it out.

[Fatebreaker]

Exalted is probably your best bet -- the entire concept is built around "and then mortals became demigods." That sounds exactly like what you're looking for. Scroll of Heroes is the mortal book. It plus the core book should get you on your way. And Exalted is always fun!

[Hybban]

Cortex RPG. The most wide-reaching and versatile system I've come across. Same system as Serenity except without the serenity part. As is, it's applicable to almost anything.

I totally second that. I've run many games (form their licenced games or home-brews) and it is just great.

[chaotician375]

I totally second that. I've run many games (form their licenced games or home-brews) and it is just great.

And I third. Although nWoD wouldn't be bad either.

[Raishi Fox]

Thanks all! I've looked into these a bit, I definitely think I'm going to go with Exalted. It looks perfect, and my group is already familiar with the WoD system, so it should be an easy transition!

[UserClone]

Weapons of the Gods, singing to Exalted:

"Any thing you can do, I can do better..."

That is all.

[1of3]

I'd try FATE. You can make up a skill list that includes everything you consider relevant and no more. Game is quite fast and not bogged down with minutiae.

You can use power levels from Kerberos Club to easily modell their newfound power. There are also rules for organisations, if you'd like those.

[dobu]

you can never go wrong with GURPS. It's as complicated as you want. You don't need all those complicated or optional rules. You just need to say "no" as DM sometimes.

[Knaight]

Fudge should work pretty well. It is basically a lighter cousin to GURPS, which exceeds it in capability to be truly generic. Moreover, the FATE word scale and die mechanics originated in Fudge, and Aspects originated in a Fudge article detailing options. Moreover, with only a little tinkering you should be able to get a magic system that actually handles magic being a living being extremely well. Plus, it's free, so, there's that.

[dsmiles]

Fudge should work pretty well. It is basically a lighter cousin to GURPS, which exceeds it in capability to be truly generic. Moreover, the FATE word scale and die mechanics originated in Fudge, and Aspects originated in a Fudge article detailing options. Moreover, with only a little tinkering you should be able to get a magic system that actually handles magic being a living being extremely well. Plus, it's free, so, there's that.

What he said.
Also consider RISUS or a Burning Wheel-based system.

[Knaight]

What he said.
Also consider RISUS or a Burning Wheel-based system.

I'm never going to get used to this whole "people backing up or suggesting games I like on this forum" thing. Particularly for Fudge.

[dsmiles]

Well, I've played FATE, and it's derived from Fudge, so...it's kind of a win/win there.

[Bagelson]

Weapons of the Gods, singing to Exalted:

"Any thing you can do, I can do better..."

That is all.

A point of academic interest here. I've never read WotG, but I do have Legends of the Wulin which has been hailed as a (better) spiritual successor. I wouldn't use LotW over Exalted for the OP's premise, despite how cumbersome Exalted is. LotW certainly does Asian style heroes and solo action better than Exalted, but there would be a lot of tinkering involved to fit this. How does WotG work that makes it a good fit?

[UserClone]

I'm not seeing where tinkering would be necessary here. In my experience, Exalted is so much kludge cluttered around a cool backstory, much like any other Storyteller system game. I guess I don't see the appeal for it here when there is a system for telling very similar stories which runs much more smoothly and simply.

[Bagelson]

I'm not seeing where tinkering would be necessary here. In my experience, Exalted is so much kludge cluttered around a cool backstory, much like any other Storyteller system game. I guess I don't see the appeal for it here when there is a system for telling very similar stories which runs much more smoothly and simply.

As mentioned, I don't know WotG beyond the fact that it's the predecessor to LotW. It sounds like the OP is looking for a system with some mechanical weight in at least overt magic and mass combat. LotW could do magic, but the better way around would be to shift the setting's magic in line with LotW; ie kung fu wuxia magic. But the bigger issue is mass combat; LotW doesn't do mass combat, unless it's a mass of mooks against solo singularly powerful characters. Combat in LotW is about fantastic kung fu duels, not so much big tactical events. The sudden ascension to power could, I suppose, be done by boosting their rank and handing out a load of Destiny, but it feels a bit inelegant.

But really I'm just wondering how WotG would do it and if it's really that different from LotW.

[Fortuna]

Exalted's mass combat system is widely considered the most broken part of it except social mass combat, and the 2.5 errata is unlikely to change that. I would advise against Exalted if you want clashes of armies to play an important role as anything but backdrop to individual combats.