El Goonish Shive

[Mystic Muse]

It's not even that. I have poked to see the forum maybe once every three strips or so, and from what I can see, it's just people telling Dan "MOVE ON WITH THE STORY, FASTER, FASTER FASTER!", old posters voicing their dislike of particular things in venomous ways and not getting called out on it because of the favor of certain mods, and generally a closed feedback loop between people who hate almost everything about the comic but get angry if you suggest that maybe they should read something else they enjoy more?

Yeesh. I'd be surprised if Dan even still read the forums after all that.

[Nightmarenny]

The sad thing is that the forum often laments that Dan doesn't seem to take criticism. Back when I was apart of the Forum Dan was involved in the forum a lot and I believe that direct feedback is something that really improved his comic. Who can blame him for leaving though? They do nothing but attack every comic for the most minor of flaws and its so sickening.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's actually against the rules there for calling someone out for being absurdly negative and hating everything about the comic, always. Or to suggest that maybe they should read comics they actually enjoy.

.-.

[memnarch]

It's actually against the rules there for calling someone out for being absurdly negative and hating everything about the comic, always. Or to suggest that maybe they should read comics they actually enjoy.

.-.

What really?


Edit; Where at? I don't see that rule looking around.

[Rappy]

Edit; Where at? I don't see that rule looking around.

Yeah. I know some of the mods and admins at 910CMX, and asking one, I couldn't find any correlation. There is a tense balance between overzealous vitriol, (rare) snark/comedic criticism, averageness, typical fans, and overzealous fans, though.

[Hidden Sanity]

It's actually against the rules there for calling someone out for being absurdly negative and hating everything about the comic, always. Or to suggest that maybe they should read comics they actually enjoy.

.-.

It's not a rule there... it is a rule that even unhelpful and useless criticism is allowed, but personal attacks are not. Which sadly means that someone can be rude about the comic and towards Dan(These rules exist at Dan's request and don't apply to the non-EGS sections of the forum) but being rude towards those people in turn is not acceptable.

This has some unfortunate consequences, but still not quite what you said.

Yeah. I know some of the mods and admins at 910CMX, and asking one, I couldn't find any correlation. There is a tense balance between overzealous vitriol, (rare) snark/comedic criticism, averageness, typical fans, and overzealous fans, though.

Hi Rappy!

[Mina Kobold]

Does that mean that I could suggest reading something else if I was really really positive and nice about it? Just Maybe? If I put sugar on it? ^_^

I like solving problems with positivity, so that might finally be a chance to do so, and possibly acquire a squirrel tail! :3

On the comic itself, anyone actually know why they hunt boars in the evening? Dan's commentary made me curious.

[Hidden Sanity]

You can always try, I don't give it good odds of success. At all.

[Tricia]

It's not even that. I have poked to see the forum maybe once every three strips or so, and from what I can see, it's just people telling Dan "MOVE ON WITH THE STORY, FASTER, FASTER FASTER!",

That's funny, because there have been a very small handful of comment of "move on with the story" in the past several months, most of them occurring in the past week or so.

old posters voicing their dislike of particular things in venomous ways and not getting called out on it because of the favor of certain mods

The favor of mods? What? The Old Hack only tried to keep the peace, and keep direct insults down on both sides. He's gone, and now Hidden Sanity is the replacement. And as you can see (I assume you're the same one), he's pretty steadfastly against the critic crowd.

but get angry if you suggest that maybe they should read something else they enjoy more?

I do read something I enjoy more. And I read EGS, too. Funny how the internet being infinite works.

And people only get angry when people pull out the "If you don't love EGS, shut up and leave!" BS.

Does that mean that I could suggest reading something else if I was really really positive and nice about it? Just Maybe? If I put sugar on it? ^_^

a) It's not like people are only allowed a limited number of webcomics they can read. Reading EGS takes a minute or two out of my day.
b) The EGS forum is still largely supportive of the comic. The people that are critical of the comic do so because we believe that Dan can do better, and has done in the past. His writing has been sloppy as of late, and we lament him lapsing into mediocrity.
c) Disliking the current storyline or certain aspects of EGS is not the same as disliking EGS as a whole.

It's actually against the rules there for calling someone out for being absurdly negative and hating everything about the comic, always.

Except that this never actually happens. There have been a few people like that, but they've either been banned or stopped coming. Unless you consider "this could be better" to be "absurdly negative", in which case you need to get a perspective check.

The sad thing is that the forum often laments that Dan doesn't seem to take criticism.

He doesn't. Every time I've e-mailed or twittered him with any sort of suggestion, even a minor one like a minor rewording of something that might make it more clear, his response is always something along the lines of "You don't understand what I'm trying to do!" or "My way is better, so nyah!"

[Hidden Sanity]

Oh, I'm fine with criticism, and there's a fair amount of good criticism on the EGS forums. What I do find tiresome on a personal level is unhelpful negativity(Well, unhelpful positivity is almost as bad, but at least it's less likely to offend people.) Allowing unhelpful negativity(When presented in an unsubtle and rude manner) does change the community in that many people do not desire to be around it and make the choice to 'leave' when presented with the 'like it or leave'. Naturally, disallowing it also changes the community as there will be people who feel that criticism, unhelpful or otherwise, should be allowed. It is simply my opinion that so long as truth is allowed, there is little need for posts that create a more negative atmosphere.

As you appreciate bluntness, I will be blunt and state that I view your posts about the comic at about 50% good criticism and 30% unhelpful negativity, Trica(20% other, bearing in mind I have not taken the time to do an actual survey and breakdown, so these numbers are likely tilted by perception.) I do view you as an overall benefit to the community, but the problem does come from a few other members and the tendency for two-tone perception in general in the forum.(Both myself and yourself not being immune.). I also believe that you have the potential to be a genuinely positive contributor if you so chose(As in making all your criticism helpful).

Now, I would also like to disclaim that how I would run the forum (if, for some reason I was important enough to run a forum), is different from how I will moderator a forum by other peoples rules, as I attempt to keep my personal bias out of the matter. (Far be it that I am arrogant enough to claim that I will always succeed, but try I shall.)

Still, as long as people are going to be discussing the EGS forums here at the giant, I figured that as the temporary moderator for the EGS section, I may as well make some attempts at clearing up confusions or misinformation.

[Tricia]

I will admit to occasionally getting caught up in things and going overboard with the negativity. It's something I'm trying to work on. Some of it is probably a misread in tone, as a lot of what I say carries a certain level of snark. But the accusations that have been made around here are far from the truth, and read like people who just heard rumors and took them as truth.

[littlekKID]

Sooo... how long before we find out that Rhoda is Dreaming and has some kind of size-changing spell?

'cuase seeing the last strip, it's kinda obvious

@V: Yep, that's it. And I agree

[Lizard Lord]

Dreaming? Is that the word for people that have a magic mark on their body that gives them a power based on a desire or innate talent? 'Cause I'm betting that is what Rhonda has, as part of Pandora's unnecessarily convoluted plan.

And if that is the word for it, I would think Marked would be a better term.

[Gaius]

Technically, Dreaming has a more general definition:

"Dreaming" covers anyone who has access to some sort of magic without having awakened.

Elliot, Ellen, and Nanase are examples of people who were Dreaming, and have Awakened without needing a Mark.

I like 'Marked' as a term, though. It's a good word for people like Dex, Justin and (until recently) Susan, who have the... well, mark that lets them throw specific magic around without having Awakened. Perhaps a Mark is the easiest way for Immortals to endow mortals with magic?

EDIT: Er, and more on-topic. ^_^o I hadn't really thought of Rhoda being Marked with some sort of size-changing power, but it's an interesting idea. I'd buy it.

[Tono]

... Wasn't Rhoda the chick that was all bent out on size when talking to Justin earlier? Was not something I saw coming if that was a hint to this.

[Newman]

Hi, I'm new. I liked the comic a lot. It started kinda weak. But then it really got better. The high point, IMHO, was the trasformation party. There was a lot of emotional closure from every direction, and it was a very nutritious, appeasing, cathartic read.

What I don't get is the criticism the comic gets precisely for the transformations. There's many legitimate complaints to make, ("Get ON with it" among others) but I don't feel like that's one of them. People treat it like it was a huuuge sick perversion on the level of... I something very perverted and very sick. Paradoxically, they complain about the lack of sex and excess of cuddling as "something typical of nerds", which makes it somehow inherently despicable and wrong.

I don't get it.

For me it's just a funny, cute cartoon about cute, memorable, sympathetic characters... to whom I've gotten really attatched over time.

[littlekKID]

Hi, I'm new. I liked the comic a lot. It started kinda weak. But then it really got better. The high point, IMHO, was the trasformation party. There was a lot of emotional closure from every direction, and it was a very nutritious, appeasing, cathartic read.

What I don't get is the criticism the comic gets precisely for the transformations. There's many legitimate complaints to make, ("Get ON with it" among others) but I don't feel like that's one of them. People treat it like it was a huuuge sick perversion on the level of... I something very perverted and very sick. Paradoxically, they complain about the lack of sex and excess of cuddling as "something typical of nerds", which makes it somehow inherently despicable and wrong.

I don't get it.

For me it's just a funny, cute cartoon about cute, memorable, sympathetic characters... to whom I've gotten really attatched over time.

Here's one guy girl explaining why he she doesn't like EGS that much

While I can't say I agree with him her, at least he gives us reasons for his her dislike, and it can be pretty funny at times

[John Cribati]

1: AHR is a girl.
2: AHR doesn't hate the comic; she loves what it could be and lets that cloud her judgement. By her own admission, she's Tsundere for it.

WARNING: Link to tvtropes.

[littlekKID]

1: AHR is a girl.

The sad thing is that I totally knew that, but I miswrited

time to EDIT

[Newman]

AHR has belligerent attraction to a lot of things. You guys know AHR? She posts here?

[Mina Kobold]

a) It's not like people are only allowed a limited number of webcomics they can read. Reading EGS takes a minute or two out of my day.
b) The EGS forum is still largely supportive of the comic. The people that are critical of the comic do so because we believe that Dan can do better, and has done in the past. His writing has been sloppy as of late, and we lament him lapsing into mediocrity.
c) Disliking the current storyline or certain aspects of EGS is not the same as disliking EGS as a whole.

a) I am aware, I was just making a joke about the supposed rule against negative remarks against other posters. Sorry if it sounded like I was calling everybody haters. I did not intend to. m(_ _)m

b) I personally think that he is doing quite well at the moment. Tension is building, strange occurrences make us paranoid about Pandora's plans and we get some insight into secondary characters.

I also love constructive criticism (Both giving and receiving it), so I completely support you trying to help Dan improve! I just don't think he is at all lapsing into mediocrity, so I feel a bit icky when people say that he definitively is doing so. Sorry. ^_^'

c) I did not attempt to make it sound like it did, I was working from incomplete evidence. That is a mistake of mine that I apologise for.

From what you say, I would not suggest so to most on the EGS forum. Although I do wonder if it could be a solution to ask Dan for more Twitter surveys on art and writing? He seems quite fond on doing them.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience. m(_ _)m

[Nightmarenny]

He doesn't. Every time I've e-mailed or twittered him with any sort of suggestion, even a minor one like a minor rewording of something that might make it more clear, his response is always something along the lines of "You don't understand what I'm trying to do!" or "My way is better, so nyah!"

He wasn't always like that Tricia. You don't "get carried away" with negativity. You just are, the forum that is. Heck any comic where Grace appears I know what you'll have to say. Lets look at a comment you made a comic back

Panel three makes me want to throttle Grace even more than usual.

And while I can't blame Raven, as dating Tedd shows a severe lack of good judgement, the fact that this inane conversation is going to go on for another couple weeks makes me want to throttle Dan.

I... just what do you do with that?

[horngeek]

Huh. On the other hand, Raven, if I'm right, he wouldn't even exist if not for you, so...

[Newman]

{Scrubbed}

[golentan]

I do like the Deathless Army of Rage. As cutaway gags go, that one's pretty good.

[Weimann]

The Deathless Army of Rage seems like reasonable fellows you can talk to. I also quite enjoy Raven in this arc.

Tedd and Grace is a really sweet couple. Tedd's analysis of the mission's threat level speaks volumes about him, as far as I'm concerned, and paints him in a starkly different light than many other boyfriend stereotypes. It's really very admirable how, despite being worried for Grace on an emotional basis, he cannot deny that logically there should be only a very minor risk level involved, and thus he has no say in the matter. It displays a faith in Grace as a capable, independant woman while still obviously being worried caring deeply about her well-being.

In fact, Tedd really is one of the better characters in the comic when it comes to emotional development.

[Newman]

He still ain't no Carrot Ironfoundersson, though.

[Lord Raziere]

I agree, Ted has a personality! much better character than Carrot.

[Newman]

Oh come on, it's not that Carrot doesn't have a personality (unlike Peter Sellers), it's that he's a riddle within a mystery wrapped in an enigma. He acts the part of Finn Hudson, King of Gondor, but he's actually a lot more complex than that. Also, he evolves a lot between books. Ted, on the other hand, is a lot more simple and understandable, and we get to know a lot of what goes on in his head.

[Newman]

Oh come on, it's not that Carrot doesn't have a personality (unlike Peter Sellers), it's that he's a riddle within a mystery wrapped in an enigma. He acts the part of Finn Hudson, King of Gondor, but he's actually a lot more complex than that. Also, he evolves a lot between books. Ted, on the other hand, is a lot more simple and understandable, and we get to know a lot of what goes on in his head.