Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Provengreil]

i sens there's a story behind that comment. may we hear it?

[Dsurion]

I keep hearing about that story on these forums, but I've never managed to find and read it myself. Is it still recorded somewhere?

I'm assuming this is referencing That Lanky Bugger's story, which you can find here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23784

[big teej]

that's the one.

[amaranth69]

Cell Phones!

[dsmiles]

I'm assuming this is referencing That Lanky Bugger's story, which you can find here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23784

And some obligatory text.

[Trunt]

1. When everyone else is at least trying to role play, except for the ONE GUY who is just running the numbers to try and wield a Colossal sized greatsword even through he's only a medium sized character. For example:
Player 1: "I leap off the building and swing down with all of my strength on the demon's head. What do you do, Rick?"
Player 2: "27 on attack, 18 initial damage with 6 poison damage for the next 3 rounds." Seriously, if you're going to just number crunch, then just play League of Legends or something.

2. When more experienced players criticize less experienced players on their characters or metagaming, then have long, incredibly boring discussions on characters they made in past sessions.

3. DMs who are involved in character building only to screw with the characters. When I first started playing, my DM would "assist" me with creating a character, then specifically create challenges that neutralized any useful abilities. And by that I mean ALL of my abilities.

[Grendus]

I'm assuming this is referencing That Lanky Bugger's story, which you can find here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23784

Ahh yes, the powertrip DM. Probably been mentioned (heck, I think it was in the first five pages) but bears a repeat.

The Powertrip DM: It's generally understood, especially in games like D&D, that the DM is the final authority in a game. This guy either enjoys it too much or doesn't have any authority IRL, because he loves nothing more than to prove his superiority to the PC's over and over. PC wants to step off the rails (even if it's just to metaphorically pick up a bottle of aspirin from the train station gift shop) and he's mugged, trampled, hit by another train, and miraculously lands back on the first set of tracks right as the train departs. And of course, it's not just the rails, this guy seriously enjoys giving the PC's a problem and then swatting down every possible solution if it doesn't fit with his master plan.

A combination of the Opponent DM and the Railroad DM. As with all tropes, YMMV - if you enjoy a gritty game, the DM can tell a good story, or he has some other redeeming qualities you may not find this kind of DM aggravating.

[Choco]

A combination of the Opponent DM and the Railroad DM. As with all tropes, YMMV - if you enjoy a gritty game, the DM can tell a good story, or he has some other redeeming qualities you may not find this kind of DM aggravating.

The 4e group I am DM'ing for right now is the exact opposite. I tried to go for more of a sandbox game and told them that their backstories would be used and they can take that opportunity to create parts of the world. What I got back was some basic 1 paragraph background from each of them that consisted entirely of "<x> class, born in <y> town, 1 cliche reason to be adventuring". Then I give them a few plot hooks and they just sit around. Apparently they don't know "which one I want them to take" and are sitting around until I lead them by the hand to the train station.

So what do y'all think? Should I keep trying to train them outta that habit, or consider myself lucky that I have a group that actually WANTS to be railroaded and just go with it?

Related somewhat:

Mr. No Personality-The name says it all, this player's characters never have any personality. I am talking characters who make chatterbox bots look like they have character.

[Grendus]

Sounds like they want a hack and slash on a railroad. So give it to them, but give them a twist. Give them a moral quandary. Give them a trap with multiple solutions. Throw them some environmental challenges, or maybe some fights that aren't that straight forward. Train them. Give them some settings that change with their choices. Eventually they'll learn to start thinking outside the box.

[Otacon17]

Mr. No Personality-The name says it all, this player's characters never have any personality. I am talking characters who make chatterbox bots look like they have character.

The Pathfinder campaign I just wrapped up had a guy like this, coupled with Mr. Inconsistent. He was playing a female half-elf ranger (another thing that bothers me - when guys play female characters for no other reason than to pretend they are a sexy woman. They don't do it because they legitimately think it would be fun to try playing a woman for once; they end up being exactly like every other character they play, but with a great big pair of... erm, let's say eyes... and a bunch of ranks in Perform: Poledancing. Then they get super uncomfortable when male NPCs show interest in their character) who he bothered to roleplay about 5 times over the course of 20 levels. Each time, his character's personality (and soetimes backstory) was completely different. First, his character did trick shots in a traveling circus. Then he decided he didn't like that, so she had suddenly been a hunter all her life. Then, out of nowhere, she turned out to have a deep hatred for all humans. After that, she was in love with one of the other party members (a gnome); a few weeks later, she was a nymphomaniac who found gnomes unattractive. When I finally called the guy out on this, he just shrugged and said, "Yeah, I don't really care about roleplaying this character. I'm just focusing on mechanics." Yeah, he was totally focused on mechanics... except for the fact that I constantly had to remind him to level, and he never bothered learning any of his Ranger spells or keeping track of his animal companion because "It was too much work."

[Yukitsu]

Interesting. It's my male characters that end up having that skill.

[Tyndmyr]

So what do y'all think? Should I keep trying to train them outta that habit, or consider myself lucky that I have a group that actually WANTS to be railroaded and just go with it?

Not everyone wants a sandbox.

As a rule of thumb, if your players are trying to jump the rails, they need more choice. If the game halts in indecision, the players need less choice. The desired level varies, but for most groups, it's a pretty big window. Aim for somewhere in the middle.

[Talakeal]

Not everyone wants a sandbox.

As a rule of thumb, if your players are trying to jump the rails, they need more choice. If the game halts in indecision, the players need less choice. The desired level varies, but for most groups, it's a pretty big window. Aim for somewhere in the middle.

What if you have a group like mine that is constantly halted by indecision but if you try and put more structure in the game they lash out with random acts of chaotic evil or bitch incessently that you won't let them off the rails to do what they want to do? Of course they only thing they ever do when they are off the rails is to craft or shop for more magic items, reasearch spells, ask if they can get downtime XP for sitting in a room training, and complain about how bored they are.

[Hiro Protagonest]

What if you have a group like mine that is constantly halted by indecision but if you try and put more structure in the game they lash out with random acts of chaotic evil or bitch incessently that you won't let them off the rails to do what they want to do? Of course they only thing they ever do when they are off the rails is want craft or shop for more magic items and complain about how bored they are.

If I had the group you just described, I'd have one of the others DM or I'd just flat-out leave and settle with pbp until I find a new group.

Edit: hey, you're that guy that has the group that all play chaotic stupid and attack anything someone of higher authority says not to.

[Talakeal]

If I had the group you just described, I'd have one of the others DM or I'd just flat-out leave and settle with pbp until I find a new group.

Edit: hey, you're that guy that has the group that all play chaotic stupid and attack anything someone of higher authority says not to.

Yes I am, because they are so bored of my railroad adventures don't you know.

[Tyndmyr]

What if you have a group like mine that is constantly halted by indecision but if you try and put more structure in the game they lash out with random acts of chaotic evil or bitch incessently that you won't let them off the rails to do what they want to do? Of course they only thing they ever do when they are off the rails is to craft or shop for more magic items, reasearch spells, ask if they can get downtime XP for sitting in a room training, and complain about how bored they are.

I'd probably light them on fire.

Make an entire campaign based around some guy telling them what to do, and what not to do. Assume that they will always do the exact opposite. For the finale, they find out how to get to this guy and kill him. It'll be the most terrible campaign ever, but they'll probably enjoy it.

[dsmiles]

What if you have a group like mine that is constantly halted by indecision but if you try and put more structure in the game they lash out with random acts of chaotic evil or bitch incessently that you won't let them off the rails to do what they want to do? Of course they only thing they ever do when they are off the rails is to craft or shop for more magic items, reasearch spells, ask if they can get downtime XP for sitting in a room training, and complain about how bored they are.

Honestly, I'd just let them sit until they learn that there either has to be some sort of structure, or you have to go out and find adventure. Adventures don't come to you in a sandbox.

[Gamer Girl]

Yeah, both Disney-Nerf and Meatgrinder are playing styles I dislike. I guess the gist of it is for me that player actions should have consequences, both positive and negative. In Nerf games the PCs win no matter what, and in Meatgrinder games they die no matter what. Either would kinda make me wonder what am I actually doing there.

I dislike Disney-Nerf and Meatgrinder, though I often get called a Meatgrinder DM as characters Do die in my games.

In order for a game to be fun, you have to have that possibility of loss. This is why people don't play 'Bumper Bowling', for example. And why major sporting events keep score.

But it's fine to play a Nerf or Meat game....if you tell everyone before the game even starts!

[Razgriez]

@Razgriez: Fixed for you. :P

Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" Guy

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real Roleplayers of Genius...
Real Roleplayers of Geeeeeenius!

Today we salute you, Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" PC.
Mr. Chaotic Neutral Player Characteeeeer!

In a party filled with do-gooders and law-abiders, you're the albatross who forcefully hangs yourself around their necks. You constantly turn the most innocent of situations into a stroll through the ninth level of the Abyss.
Watch out for the demons!

Who cares that the PHB says that you try to avoid the law, authority figures and generally causing trouble for trouble's sake, because while the party discusses their next quest with the king, you're busy thinking of ways to kill the king just for laughs.
Stop metagaming and detecting my alignmeeeeeeeent!

Your crowning moment was the moment after you'd caused an entire town of innocent people to burn, when your paladin "buddy" tried to smite you and for good reason. You unloaded your chaotic spellcaster's abilities to make him fall, ruining that player's fun while claiming that the smite didn't work because your alignment is still Neutral.
My actions just have an evil side!

So here's to you, O master of hiding your real alignment, and grab yourself an ice-cold Cure Light; you've earned it. Because without you, Chaotic Neutral might actually be a fun alignment to play.
Mr. Chaotic Evil "Neutral" Guuuuuy!

Ok... I must admit, that is a rather good redo of mine.

*Applauds*

my hats off to you on the improvements

[slaydemons]

(another thing that bothers me - when guys play female characters for no other reason than to pretend they are a sexy woman. They don't do it because they legitimately think it would be fun to try playing a woman for once; they end up being exactly like every other character they play, but with a great big pair of... erm, let's say eyes... and a bunch of ranks in Perform: Poledancing. Then they get super uncomfortable when male NPCs show interest in their character)

I hate people like this, I played a woman once, sure she was attractive but she hated being hit on, and wanted to punch guys who go up to her in bars and hit on her.

now onto my complaint I don't know if this has been said the unversatile caster the guy who thinks wizards are one trick ponies and complains that nothing is really fun.

In my group one person wanted the destination not the journey to said destination, we did free form rp based on the stories going around what if D&D was real but based around them so we didn't have to do dice or boards.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I hate people like this, I played a woman once, sure she was attractive but she hated being hit on, and wanted to punch guys who go up to her in bars and hit on her.

That's generally how I play girls.

In my group one person wanted the destination not the journey to said destination, we did free form rp based on the stories going around what if D&D was real but based around them so we didn't have to do dice or boards.

I wrote one of those! Though I probably won't finish it, I lost interest.

[slaydemons]

That's generally how I play girls.

I wrote one of those! Though I probably won't finish it, I lost interest.

were you the one that your a paladin//monk? only a few people were gestalt in my game, my friend was given a barbarian//monk no alignment requirement I thought it was perfect for him as he gets angry easily and has martial training with fists

found it you weren't the pala//monk

[Hiro Protagonest]

were you the one that your a paladin//monk? only a few people were gestalt in my game, my friend was given a barbarian//monk no alignment requirement I thought it was perfect for him as he gets angry easily and has martial training with fists

No, the original one had paladin//monk.

[slaydemons]

No, the original one had paladin//monk.

you said it after I found it my player kept trying to bring on action I had the big silver gorillas in multiple places showing something was wrong but then my friend wanted more action a meteor fell from the sky... and two of the gorillas attack by his livening up I told him to stop it

[Hiro Protagonest]

you said it after I found it my player kept trying to bring on action I had the big silver gorillas in multiple places showing something was wrong but then my friend wanted more action a meteor fell from the sky... and two of the gorrilla's attack by his livening up I told him to stop it

...

Your sentences are like quilts.

Maybe it's a lack of punctuation.

[slaydemons]

...

Your sentences are like quilts.

Maybe it's a lack of punctuation.

Sorry it can get a bit hectic I have like crap grammar. I basically played the scenario's like how I read them in the stories, then my player wanted more action so he made things happen that probably shouldn't of. One example of how I read it was, writing your character sheet down. the other things was the giant silver gorillas that attacked new york. I don't know the name at this time. my player forced events that didn't happen in the story. Example two giant four armed gorilla looking creatures attacking close by, a meteor falling from the sky.

[Gamer Girl]

Mr. Stinks at Improv DM: Has no concept of improv storytelling and can't piece together a storyline on the fly to save his life.

Oh, very common.

Examples:

1.The Characters derail a planed story, and the DM is just all flustered. They can't figure out what to do or where to take the story and get very confused.

2.The Characters head down a empty un-detailed area, and the DM states that 'um, nothing is there'.

3.The DM just pulls the same things over and over and over again.....''you head into the woods and see....um, orcs...um..again''.

[Razgriez]

Mr. Stinks at Improv DM: Has no concept of improv storytelling and can't piece together a storyline on the fly to save his life.

Oh, very common.

Examples:

1.The Characters derail a planed story, and the DM is just all flustered. They can't figure out what to do or where to take the story and get very confused.

2.The Characters head down a empty un-detailed area, and the DM states that 'um, nothing is there'.

3.The DM just pulls the same things over and over and over again.....''you head into the woods and see....um, orcs...um..again''.

Alright, I'm tempted to turn this into a Beer Commercial Parody... So here we go....

Mr. Really bad Improv DM

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real Roleplayers of Genius...
Real Role-Players of Geeeeeenius!

Today we Salute You, Mr. Really Bad Improv Dungeon Master
Mr. Really Bad Improv Dungeon Maaaaster!

Like a four star General, you plan the defense of your evil warlord with various traps, planned choke point, and assaults by your overwhelming minions. What you didn't plan on, was the players rolling a Natural 20.
5% chances seemed so unlikely!!!!

But don't worry, you have a plan B. This carefully laid back up plan, is the one where you place your self in a near catatonic state, rolling away on the various encounter and treasure charts, while you're players get tired of just facing a bunch of random encounters, with room after unfurnished, boring rooms
Oh noooooo!

Your final bit of brilliance? throw the left over, low level minions at the adventurers, in a suicidal frontal assault, in a weak revenge attempt for the PCs derailing your plans.
"They were taking up space in my note book!

So power up the video game console and TV, O master of improv, and grab your self an ice cold Cure Light. Because at least First person Shooters and Tv show Re-runs may distract your friends long enough, for you to go cry about how they ruined your plans, in your room.
Mr. Really bad at Improv Dungeon Master!

[The Glyphstone]

what beer commercial is being parodied here?

[dsmiles]

Why, Real Men of Genius, of course.