Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Grendus]

A good guard against the rogue constantly telling the party the loot was worth less than it actually was is to have the party appraiser not be the party face. If the Wizard says the loot is worth 3500gp market value and the rogue claims he could only get 500, you know the rogue is either a liar or a moron. After that, the wizard gets to sell the loot, and the rogue can amuse himself pickpocketing drunks in the bar (which, unfortunately, means you'll need to budget for bail money).

[The Glyphstone]

Why would you budget for bail money? Seems like that'd be the perfect excuse to get rid of dead weight in the party.

[Elric VIII]

A good guard against the rogue constantly telling the party the loot was worth less than it actually was is to have the party appraiser not be the party face. If the Wizard says the loot is worth 3500gp market value and the rogue claims he could only get 500, you know the rogue is either a liar or a moron. After that, the wizard gets to sell the loot, and the rogue can amuse himself pickpocketing drunks in the bar (which, unfortunately, means you'll need to budget for bags of holding to carry the loot he would have earned, since I'm taking it now).

Fix'd that for you.

[Honest Tiefling]

Or budget for a monkey or two. Probably cause less mess.

Heck, if the guy couldn't sell a magic sword for diddly, I'd try to have the monkey sell items instead. It couldn't do any worse!

[Steward]

After that, the wizard gets to sell the loot, and the rogue can amuse himself pickpocketing drunks in the bar (which, unfortunately, means you'll need to budget for bail money).

I agree with the Glyphstone. Just say that you sold all of your equipment and still couldn't afford to spring him. If the rogue makes a Sense Motive check after noticing that you still have all of your equipment, just shrug feebly and leave.

[Nidogg]

Theres a door! Quick lets kick it in type player

The uncle of Player who rolls for everything this person thinks that combat it the resolution to everything. Are they bored? Are swords not drawn? Have they just showed up with a comment such as "aAlright, Times up, lets do this? If the awnser to any of these questions is "Yes" then they draw their sword and stab the nearest thing, Pc, important diplomat, king or cow. Elaborate plans? Pah! these are nothing compared to this guys desire to hack things to peices and fast.

[Silus]

The Let's change around class mechanics in the name of "balance" DM.

Happend....twice I think? Same guy I've had issues with in the past.

So we're making characters for a new campaign and we get a little freedom (still no Arcane, Divine or psionic classes, but hey, Adept is available!), so I ask if I can make a Warlock, seeing as we're starting in the Abyss. Guy says, more or less, sure, but I only get so many Blasts per day. This does not fly with me, as the Eldritch Blast is the bread and butter of the class. So I switch over and suggest the Pathfinder Gunslinger. Guy says sure, but limits the already presented stats for the firearm (or was it that feat that lets you pull 3 bullets from nowhere for a Grit point?).

So yeah, basically people that try to "balance" classes but have no idea how said classes work. And said balancing ends up gimping said class horribly (For the 'Lock, I would have taken the blasts hitting regular AC as opposed to Touch AC over limited number of blasts, but nooooooooo).

Edit: While we're on the topic...

The "Triple threat" DM (name subject to change)

Same guy, liked to run a Low-Magic, Low Wealth game, which was fine, seeing as we could still level up. And then he threw E6 into the mix and things just went to hell. No incentive there as far as I and a few others saw it.

1. Restricted to 6th level. Couldn't take any of the fun prestige classes or anything that you get for being higher than lvl 6.
2. Very limited wealth, so you can't upgrade your gear easily or purchase a whole lot.
3. Low to next to no magic (Adept was the only magic class allowed), so little to no magic items or spells. We were lucky to get a +1 weapon.

[Choco]

Why would you budget for bail money? Seems like that'd be the perfect excuse to get rid of dead weight in the party.

I second this. You don't even need to discuss it with the character at this point, just jump town while he's awaiting trial/execution . If the character is worth anything, he can get himself out.

But then again I am the only one in the group who always makes sure all my characters (regardless of profession, race, gender, age, etc.) have multiple creative ways to escape (mundane or magical) confinement, bondage, etc.

This brings on another habit:

The Can't Follow the Plan Guy-This guy was in on your planning session and agreed to everything. But as soon as the plan is in motion he runs off and impulsively does his own thing to completely ruin everything you and the other players planned for. Then of course he can't understand why everyone is mad at him. Basically this guy is Neebs from 'Doraleous and Associates'.

Once, one of the PC's was captured and in prison, and I specifically got myself thrown in there with him so I can QUIETLY bust him out. The character was far from an impulsive and/or stupid type, so I thought this would be easy. But soon as his bonds are broken (AFTER I tell him the plan is to leave as quickly and quietly as possible with some of the other prisoners soon as the opportunity presents itself), he runs out and starts randomly eldritch blasting everyone and everything .

The other players were hiding outside the prison with our getaway vehicle, but instead they had to charge into the massive prison riot the Can't Follow the Plan Guy started before we get slaughtered. Of course reinforcements quickly showed up and we were practically fighting the whole town to get out. Miraculously we somehow made it out, BARELY alive, and with most of the other prisoners we tried to save dead.... Then he (IC and OOC) couldn't understand why I was so mad at him (IC and OOC) since we got out after all and everything worked out fine in the end.

Course, this would have been easier if the DM weren't...:

The Video Game World DM-Everywhere we go, everything we meet is level-appropriate. The world follows the pattern set up by video game RPG's for years: Your lvl 1 n00b zone, then the lvl 3 zone, then the lvl 4, then lvl 6, etc. Everyone you run into is at or around your level, even the commoners.

[Dsurion]

The "Triple threat" DM (name subject to change)

Same guy, liked to run a Low-Magic, Low Wealth game, which was fine, seeing as we could still level up. And then he threw E6 into the mix and things just went to hell. No incentive there as far as I and a few others saw it.

1. Restricted to 6th level. Couldn't take any of the fun prestige classes or anything that you get for being higher than lvl 6.
2. Very limited wealth, so you can't upgrade your gear easily or purchase a whole lot.
3. Low to next to no magic (Adept was the only magic class allowed), so little to no magic items or spells. We were lucky to get a +1 weapon.

Nothing wrong with any of this, if it matches everyone's playstyle. This is the type of game I enjoy playing, in fact.

[Silus]

Nothing wrong with any of this, if it matches everyone's playstyle. This is the type of game I enjoy playing, in fact.

To each his own I suppose, but the DM in question didn't really have a good grasp on balanced encounters and the campaign was sort of thrown together so we didn't really have time to put together any proper backstories for the DM to run with.

[KotserB]

I havent really read through the whole thread, but what really annoys me as a DM is that every time I describe something (any building, NPC or environment) it reminds my players of something and it goes like this:
DM: Before you stands a large tower, about 60 ft. high
Player 1: lol, you remember the tower i had in my pirate campaign, you guys really hated it.
Player 2: yh i remember it.... stupid tower.
Player 3: speaking of pirates, when are we going to see the movie?
DM: the tower is black and the top is covered in..
Player 1: How about next week on fridays?
Player 4: No i cant, i go to a festival on friday.
DM: covered in..
Player 1: What about saturday.
Player 4: Fine with me.
DM: guys, I'm trying to play a game here.
Player 1: Everyone fine with saturday?
All players (except for one in my case who seems to be able to ignore them): fine!
Player 1: DM, can u go to the movies saturday?
DM: ... fine, can we get on now.

It takes me approximately (is that written correctly?) 15 minutes to describe a tower for which i have about written 5 lines of text.

Do other DMs have the same problem as I do or do i just suck at being DM because for some reason my players arent interested in my storyline, any of my NPCs, buildings, environments and quests?

btw: follow the campaign journal of our current D&D 3.5 pirate campaign (in which I'm not the DM, but a level 5 Beguiler): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192028

[Honest Tiefling]

Are your players Hack n' Slashers? They might like the battles, and not care about the other bits. (The guy ignoring them might be an exception).

If you think you have a shot at them interacting with the world, try to institute a rule that the first 30 minutes is spent on catching up, goofing off, silly talk, etc. Keep it short, but perhaps giving them some time to get it out of their systems will allow them to concentrate on the game.

[KotserB]

Thats not quite the problem.
At one point they asked me to come up with more interesting battles.

What we're doing in the campaign right now is an hour D&D and then 15 minutes take a drink and such.

If you guys have other tips please let me know.
for now thanks.

[Lemonus]

The Can't Follow the Plan Guy

Bonus points if this is the guy who came up with the plan in the first place.

[Gnoman]

I havent really read through the whole thread, but what really annoys me as a DM is that every time I describe something (any building, NPC or environment) it reminds my players of something and it goes like this:
DM: Before you stands a large tower, about 60 ft. high
Player 1: lol, you remember the tower i had in my pirate campaign, you guys really hated it.
Player 2: yh i remember it.... stupid tower.
Player 3: speaking of pirates, when are we going to see the movie?
DM: the tower is black and the top is covered in..
Player 1: How about next week on fridays?
Player 4: No i cant, i go to a festival on friday.
DM: covered in..
Player 1: What about saturday.
Player 4: Fine with me.
DM: guys, I'm trying to play a game here.
Player 1: Everyone fine with saturday?
All players (except for one in my case who seems to be able to ignore them): fine!
Player 1: DM, can u go to the movies saturday?
DM: ... fine, can we get on now.

It takes me approximately (is that written correctly?) 15 minutes to describe a tower for which i have about written 5 lines of text.

Do other DMs have the same problem as I do or do i just suck at being DM because for some reason my players arent interested in my storyline, any of my NPCs, buildings, environments and quests?

btw: follow the campaign journal of our current D&D 3.5 pirate campaign (in which I'm not the DM, but a level 5 Beguiler): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192028

Think that's bad? Try reusing sprites in an online game.

[Tael]

The Disbeliever-This guy has been burned by an illusion-happy DM in the past one too many times. EVERYTHING the DM describes, he specifically mentions that he disbelieves. The walls, the floor, the ceiling, the windows, each individual book on the bookshelf, the bookshelf, the desk, ... , the dust on the bookshelf, the dust on the desk, the dust on the pen ...

Hmm. It's possible that this is a legit story, but my cynical side says your friend stole this from AGC, as it's waaay too similar.

[Choco]

Hmm. It's possible that this is a legit story, but my cynical side says your friend stole this from AGC, as it's waaay too similar.

This happened before that particular strip.

AGC brings up things that actually occur IRL after all... like the gentleman's agreement to not use illusions cause it actually DOES lead players to do that.

[big teej]

gotta new one

this isn't so much a habit so much as "fun killer"

details

anywho

enemies who have either ?? HP or X HP, where X/?? is "more than you can do."

for some reason it just really grinds my gears to be told there is categorically no way I can kill something.

shouldn't kill? totally okay
WON'T kill? also fine
CAN'T? = problem.

and yes I do consider there to be a colossal distinction between won't and can't

my first level duskblade WON'T beat the 4th level fighter.
but it cooooooooooooooould happen. potentially.

oooh something else.
and this falls under "not really anybody's fault"

whenver you play in a 3.x group and they changed something in the update, and nobody noticed the discrepency until it was too late.
I.E.
boots of striding and springing
3.0 - doubles your movement
3.5 - adds 10 feet.

when aware of this in advance, you can easily make a call such as "this is lesser, this is greater" and you're all good and dandy.

when it comes up during combat....
uh ooooh

[Choco]

for some reason it just really grinds my gears to be told there is categorically no way I can kill something.

shouldn't kill? totally okay
WON'T kill? also fine
CAN'T? = problem.

I tend to agree with that, mostly. The exception I make is gods (or equivalent beings for the campaign setting). Unless it is a god-killing campaign, the players sure as hell aint gonna be killing any gods (no matter how powerful they get) unless they got the proper MacGuffin and/or become gods themselves. Gods don't have stats when I DM

whenver you play in a 3.x group and they changed something in the update, and nobody noticed the discrepency until it was too late.
I.E.
boots of striding and springing
3.0 - doubles your movement
3.5 - adds 10 feet.

when aware of this in advance, you can easily make a call such as "this is lesser, this is greater" and you're all good and dandy.

when it comes up during combat....
uh ooooh

OMG, that EXACT thing came up in our group a few weeks ago. Me and another player each have the item, me using the 3.5 and him using the 3.0. After an hour of arguing and referencing the rules, the DM finally called that unless he makes a specific exception, everything that has been updated in 3.5 uses the 3.5 version.

[big teej]

I tend to agree with that, mostly. The exception I make is gods (or equivalent beings for the campaign setting). Unless it is a god-killing campaign, the players sure as hell aint gonna be killing any gods (no matter how powerful they get) unless they got the proper MacGuffin and/or become gods themselves. Gods don't have stats when I DM



OMG, that EXACT thing came up in our group a few weeks ago. Me and another player each have the item, me using the 3.5 and him using the 3.0. After an hour of arguing and referencing the rules, the DM finally called that unless he makes a specific exception, everything that has been updated in 3.5 uses the 3.5 version.

oooh good spot Choco, I hadn't even considered dieties when I was typing my statement.

I stradle the line of "kill the gods? psht" and "if it's the goal of the campaign"
I was refering to non-deific beings in the "can't" kill category

as for 3.0 vs 3.5
I'm honestly ashamed that it didn't dawn on me to check.
I ruled that it'll be a case by case basis. the ground rule will likely be "In case of a substantial difference, the better version is the "greater" version, and keep them both."

when this isn't a viable solution, either because they've compeltely changed how it worked, or one version is utterly borked, the ground rule is "keep what works well"

but I digress
he went with the 3.5 version because he couldn't afford the 3.0 ones (or at least I ruled he couldn't keep them from the other campaign)


EDIT:
I've got two new ones that I don't think have been mentioned so far.

Mr. "I'm ashamed of my hobby" guy.
this is the guy who "Loves" the game, will sacrifice time and money to play. in fact, as far as showing up and contributing to the game goes, he might be your best player.

but he's embarrassed/ashamed to be identified as a DnD/roleplayer person.
in fact, he's probably/might be ashamed of the other people around the table.

just a theory mind, but to me at least.
if you're ashamed or embarrased of the hobby/activity/label.... mayhap ye should not be participating in it?

and 2nd.
the "I don't like that, so I'm going to be pissed off the rest of the session guy"
aka "I would have done it differently" or "I hate that mechanic"

this is the guy at your table who also DMs and the two of you just do things... different. and that's a problem*

since he would do it differently (and his way is OBVIOUSLY soooo much better) he complains or gets all huffy when certain things come up. "the ooze disintegrates his armor!? dude that's laaaaaaaaame

aha! a better name for this guy the "dude that's lame" dm/player

"I dislike how this functions, ergo, it is bad"

I subscribe to the belief of "just because it sucks, does not mean it should be omitted"


*I'll be the first too say there's no "right" way to do it.


*** if you can't follow the edit I apologize, I just got up and I'm not that coherent yet, and I needed to vent.

[archon_huskie]

Sorry about that, but I thought I'd provide some context.

After reading all of that, most of it irrelevant, still sounds like he was wronged.

[ScionoftheVoid]

After reading all of that, most of it irrelevant, still sounds like he was wronged.

That's fine, just didn't want it to go without context.

[dsmiles]

Theres a door! Quick lets kick it in type player

These players make me .
Had one, he kicked in the door and ran into the room before I finished the description. He fell into a pit criss-crossed by lasers that triggered an explosion. Nearly killed him and most of the party.

Guy says sure, but limits the already presented stats for the firearm (or was it that feat that lets you pull 3 bullets from nowhere for a Grit point?).

That feat better be called "The Seventh Bullet is for Evil."
Man! I love the tropes!

[Kaun]

Mr. "I'm ashamed of my hobby" guy.

and 2nd.
the "I don't like that, so I'm going to be pissed off the rest of the session guy"
aka "I would have done it differently" or "I hate that mechanic"

Man you pinged me twice here.

I am not so much ashamed i just dont like having to explain myself. I all so dont like being attached to the stigma that rping carries with people who dont play.

and as for #2 i do this one. I hate myself for doing it and i try not to do it but sometimes i still do.

[dsmiles]

I am not so much ashamed i just dont like having to explain myself. I all so dont like being attached to the stigma that rping carries with people who dont play.

Eh? I take pride in the fact that I'm a nerd among nerds. If people ask, I explain, "I'm almost 35 years old, and in the military. And. I. Play. D. N. D. Take that normality!" (Which is also pretty much how I explain it at work. I hooked three guys into playing with that.)

[big teej]

Man you pinged me twice here.

I am not so much ashamed i just dont like having to explain myself. I all so dont like being attached to the stigma that rping carries with people who dont play.

and as for #2 i do this one. I hate myself for doing it and i try not to do it but sometimes i still do.

average is insuffcient, normal is boring.

to be honest, when I got into it. I was MAJORLY embarrased, I wouldn't even own up to it most of the time.

I'd offer advice on the explaining yourself side, but I'd need you to elaborate first.

I do it to, don't worry, but I must say I've improved grandly on the scale of keeping a lid on it.

now, if I really took issue with something, I"ll mention it to the DM after, but it takes something relatively major (to me) for someone to tell I'm pissed during the game.

for instance, to use a recent example, I was told the guy we were fighting had a HP total of ??? and we couldn't beat it.

as soon as I hear anything that can be boiled down/paraphrased into "your choices didn't/dont matter" I lose it.

and I feel bad about that.

then again, mayhap part of my reaction was the fact I had just made the decision to NOT do the exact same thing in my game...

/ramble

[Kaun]

I have been playhing for damn near 20 years now, its not so much the nerd stigma its more the fact that a simple answer never suffices.

Q:"Why do you play games like that?"

Me:"Because i enjoy them"

Q:"but wouldn't you have more fun doing x..."

and so on and so on.

I got stuff to do so rather then let the world know i rp on my weekends i just keep it to myself. If they find out from some one else i dont deny it i just can't be bothered with the questions from people who are at most vaugely interested.

[Sahadeva]

Mr. "I'm ashamed of my hobby" guy.

Hopefully I'm not digging a hole for myself here...

You know the type of player who has good hygiene, has good social skills, gets along with other people without making a spectacle of themselves, can interact with average people without getting strange looks, and can have a conversation with average people without bringing up something nerdy?

I've never actually met one of those. I'm aware that they exist, because I've encountered them online, or heard them described online, and they do seem to have lives outside of the hobby. But every time I've tried to find a group, every single person I encounter is the opposite of the person I've described above to varying degrees.

I was awkward myself when I was a kid (along with everyone else I played RPGs with at that stage), and I can understand how it is that some people never grow out of that stage. But it's like everyone around here who is a healthy normally functioning adult who might be interested in the hobby is driven away because of the kind of people they encounter already playing.

[big teej]

I like to think I'm one of those well adjusted people.

granted, I'm ostraicsed for plenty of other reasons.

yea just gotta keep lookin, you'll find an awesome group eventually.

as for "simple answers" I too get hung up on that sometimes, my best response is typically "think lord of the rings"

I think the best answer I've ever seen is

"oh it's really just a pretext to hang out with friends and laugh together"

that's enough of a hook to get some people interested, and enough validity to those not interested at all to back off of antagonizing it.

[dsmiles]

Q:"Why do you play games like that?"

I've been asked that question before, and I usually reply with, "Why do you sit on your ass, watching large men in tight pants wearing pauldrons and helmets chase an oblong ball around a 100-yard length of grass for four hours every Sunday afternoon and Monday night?"

Or alternatively, "Why do you watch grown men, in oversized soap-box racers, drive at dangerous speeds and turn left for two hours every Sunday?"

It gives them pause, at the least. It's also hilarious when you see the faces they make as you say that.