LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[Asta Kask]

Eh. I don't care, it's a common misconception.

This is a bad meeting with your boyfriend's family...

[Astrella]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

[KenderWizard]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

Hello! Hope you're moving in the right direction! (You know, the happy, comfortable direction.)

[unosarta]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

No matter what happens, no matter where you go, just know this; I support you.

I can't talk for the rest of the thread, but I think they would say something similar.

[Danne]

Awwwwwwww.

Awwww...

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

*hug* That's a hard spot to be in, but you'll get through it. Also, welcome to the thread!

Also, is it just me, or is this provide at least one argument for staying in the closet?

And while we're on the subject of pie chart, this and this are both totally right.

[unosarta]

Also, is it just me, or is this provide at least one argument for staying in the closet?

And while we're on the subject of pie chart, this and this are both totally right.

Yeah, I am sorry, but I would totally stave off the mothballs and dark and lying if I could go to Narnia. I mean, who DOESN'T want to go to Narnia?

Also; graph humor rocks.

[Nix Nihila]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

Welcome! As a transperson, I know how difficult these things out can be, and hope you're able to figure it out as painlessly as possible.

@Danne It would be, but C.S. Lewis ruined Narnia for me by being a twit.

[Tyndmyr]

What if they said "no black people allowed"?
Anti-discrimination is definitely a state affair, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure how much else I more want the state to "regulate".

Meh, the state itself shouldn't discriminate, sure.

I don't mind other places posting or people saying discriminatory things. I like it when idiots self-identify, so I know who to avoid.

[Heliomance]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

Yo. Welcome to the club. Not knowing who you are sucks.

[rayne_dragon]

Hey,

just wanted to say that I've been dealing with lots of gender-identity issues right now and am still full in the progress of figuring it out.

Not sure if I'm ready to talk about it publicly though.

So, hi.

Hello! Gender's a tricky thing, especially when it seems that our understanding of it is getting less accurate as time goes on. We'll be happy to listen to you if/when you do feel like talking about it - and a lot of people (including myself) are always open to PMs to discuss stuff if you need someone to talk to, especially someone who understands gender identity issues.

Awwww...



*hug* That's a hard spot to be in, but you'll get through it. Also, welcome to the thread!

Also, is it just me, or is this provide at least one argument for staying in the closet?

And while we're on the subject of pie chart, this and this are both totally right.

Those are some delicious pie charts. I have to say that I found Narnia to be a little too preachy at times, so I'm glad to be out of the closet... I don't have to worry about a(n admittedly cool) fantasy world with an omnipotent lion that will probably try to kill me. Really good series of books though.

[golentan]

So, story time from work. A couple of folks got in my line, and they had this stuffed animal which they told me they were getting for their 4 year old son. Big blue whale, "isn't that nice" I thought. So I strike up a conversation, and they're charming people. Then the dad says "I hope he'll like it. I know he wanted the rabbit." "Oh, were we out?" I asked. "No, the rabbits are pink."

... Okay... that's...

"You know, when I was about his age, pink was my favorite color." I say, hoping I misunderstood.

"Yes, well that's the problem we're having now," puts in the mother. WTF? "He likes girly things. He's got 2 sisters and thinks of himself as one of them. He's always after us to let him grow his hair long and things like that. It's not natural."

I... ... That...

I bit my tongue so hard, literally (I've got a cut in my mouth from it now) because I am not getting fired for telling people why I think they're terrible parents. But... Argh.

On the other side, I met a really nice mom who was talking about how cute she thought it was that her boy was flirting with other boys. And I came out to some of my coworkers (not that I've ever deliberately concealed it but still).

[Coidzor]

Those are some delicious pie charts. I have to say that I found Narnia to be a little too preachy at times, so I'm glad to be out of the closet... I don't have to worry about a(n admittedly cool) fantasy world with an omnipotent lion that will probably try to kill me. Really good series of books though.

I can't believe I would've missed those awesome pies if not for you. So thank you.

[unosarta]

@Golentan; that is really, really sad/depressing. Sad for the child mostly.

Speaking of something you mentioned in your post; I have been thinking of coming out to some people at fencing. I was talking to a friend about this. Neither of us could really come up with a way to do it with making the conversation very awkward, and I am still not precisely sure how people at my club will react (although that isn't something you guys can really help me with). Mostly, though, I was wondering what effective ways others have come out to close friends/relations? Because, honestly, I haven't really done it often enough to say what a good way to do it would be, and it has been pretty awkward every time I did come out to someone.

[rayne_dragon]

*snip*

Oh.... That's awful. *hugs*

I probably would have lectured them on why that attitude is wrong - I really can't stand things like that and don't have the sense of self-preservation to stop myself from telling people off in situations like that.

I'm glad that you at least are having some positive experiences as well.

I can't believe I would've missed those awesome pies if not for you. So thank you.

You're welcome... "keep your eye on the pie" I always say... or pretend I always say. I do rather like pie, though.

Mostly, though, I was wondering what effective ways others have come out to close friends/relations? Because, honestly, I haven't really done it often enough to say what a good way to do it would be, and it has been pretty awkward every time I did come out to someone.

I generally just tell people outright if I want them to know (which is seldom) and just deal with the awkwardness. Otherwise I generally keep quiet about it unless it happens to something that fits into the flow of converstation and I feel like volunteering such information. I generally try to keep a rather low profile though.

Usually it goes something along the lines of: "so I wanted to tell you something... I'm bisexual/intersexed/pansexual/genderqueer/Queen of the Dragons*/whatever else."

* - note that, as far as I know, I am not actually the Queen of the Dragons, although it would be amusing if I was.

[golentan]

Uno: Well, mine came up because one of my coworkers is playing matchmaker. She vowed to find me a girl. I told her not to limit the options. "Are you?" "Mm-hm" "Both ways?" "Instantly doubles date opportunities." "Cool, cool."

One way I've found to do it deliberately is the celebrity crush game. Next time someone talks about a TV show or movie or something, you can ask them "okay, who's your celebrity crush? Any celebrity." They answer, then you answer. Yours just happens to be non-straight.

[Skeppio]

No matter what happens, no matter where you go, just know this; I support you.

I can't talk for the rest of the thread, but I think they would say something similar.

Of course we would. Welcome to the thread, Sirroelivan.

[Serpentine]

Also, is it just me, or is this provide at least one argument for staying in the closet?

And while we're on the subject of pie chart, this and this are both totally right.

Heh... If you track these down to their (I presume) origins on Graphjam, you'll find some... emphatic comments by yours truly Actually, a couple are being resurrected again recently - and with nothing terribly interesting - for some reason No, wait... The latest, very late, response to "Consequences of Gays Adopting" is actually pretty good.

[unosarta]

Uno: Well, mine came up because one of my coworkers is playing matchmaker. She vowed to find me a girl. I told her not to limit the options. "Are you?" "Mm-hm" "Both ways?" "Instantly doubles date opportunities." "Cool, cool."

One way I've found to do it deliberately is the celebrity crush game. Next time someone talks about a TV show or movie or something, you can ask them "okay, who's your celebrity crush? Any celebrity." They answer, then you answer. Yours just happens to be non-straight.

Ah.

That might not work mostly because my current crush is from Torchwood, which none of my friends have ever seen, and not someone any of them would know. So, that probably wouldn't work. I guess I could do it with the like "in-club-crushes," although that would also probably create awkwardness. Fortunately, the main people I want to tell are girls, so at least there isn't the awkwardness of coming out to a guy ("Does that mean you are into me" is I swear to god, the first line I have heard off of everyone's [bar one, who is a pretty cool guy] lips, when I come out to them).

I generally just tell people outright if I want them to know (which is seldom) and just deal with the awkwardness. Otherwise I generally keep quiet about it unless it happens to something that fits into the flow of converstation and I feel like volunteering such information. I generally try to keep a rather low profile though.

Usually it goes something along the lines of: "so I wanted to tell you something... I'm bisexual/intersexed/pansexual/genderqueer/Queen of the Dragons*/whatever else."

* - note that, as far as I know, I am not actually the Queen of the Dragons, although it would be amusing if I was.

Yeah, I know, but A) it can be pretty hard to isolate some of the people, and I don't want to do it in like a crowd, or something, and B) if I don't continue the conversation from there onto something else, it can create an awkward silence the likes of which would crush time and space into one great singularity of awkward (okay, I might be exaggerating a little bit).

Also; I want to be Queen of the Dragons!
Although everyone knows being King of the Dragons is so much more fun. I mean, the dragons are so far past that stupid thing called gender discrimination.

[cycoris]

But if any sex can be both Queen and King... It could be an indication that initially the dragons did discriminate, but just haven't changed the titles since they got over that.

...or at least that's always the explanation I hope is true.

[unosarta]

But if any sex can be both Queen and King... It could be an indication that initially the dragons did discriminate, but just haven't changed the titles since they got over that.

...or at least that's always the explanation I hope is true.

No, I think it was more like the Dragons simply adopted the titles that the Humans used and that best described the position. I mean, being a Human queen is very similar to being a Dragon queen, and being a Human king is very similar to being a Dragon king.

But honestly, your reasoning makes sense as well, and it wouldn't surprise me, given the nature of dragons in that setting.

[golentan]

Well I think *achoo-argelfraster!*

I'm sorry, I seem to have sneezed and accidentally melted your wizard. Good thing nobody likes those guys.

[Coidzor]

What? Calling on Dragons dragons? Because they seem to have enough trollface in them that they'd call the powerless spouse of the Dragon King a Queen in order to rub it in that they're the weaker of the pair. Weak like a little pink hairless ape.

[Danne]

Those are some delicious pie charts. I have to say that I found Narnia to be a little too preachy at times, so I'm glad to be out of the closet... I don't have to worry about a(n admittedly cool) fantasy world with an omnipotent lion that will probably try to kill me. Really good series of books though.

Personally, I can put up with the preaching/allegories in Narnia because they're a very nice series of children's fantasy books, but I shall never forgive him for what he did to Susan at the end.

golentan, that story makes me sad. I wish there could have been a way to have a polite argument with those parents, but work isn't the best place for that sort of thing, alas.

[LaZodiac]

snip

Probably going to get yelled at for this, and make my first post in this topic my last, but what if they weren't concerned he's gay, but concerned he thought he was a girl instead of a boy.

There's a difference between "I'm a girl in a man's body" and "I am 4 years old and don't know the differences yet and since my only interactions are with girls, I think I'm one too"

Sorry.

[golentan]

Differences that IMO have nothing to do with getting him a toy they clearly knew he wouldn't like because the one he asked for happened to be pink.

The impression I got was very clearly "squelch this behavior" rather than "provide him options." Cuz, hey, I'm all for options. I built legos and played with dolls at that age and my parents kind of gently pushed me more towards the legos, and I'm okay with that. But I wouldn't be if they told me I could only play with the legos.

And the word "unnatural" kind of rubbed me the wrong way. And describing preference for the color pink: just the color, as a "problem."

[LaZodiac]

Ah, that's understandable. Eh, I just kinda like to play devil's advocate sometimes, bringing up the other side to get more clarification, and I have.

Next time they come in point out how whales are often considered phalic, which may "worsen things". If anything their reaction will get a laugh from you.

[Coidzor]

Differences that IMO have nothing to do with getting him a toy they clearly knew he wouldn't like because the one he asked for happened to be pink.

To be reasonable, we have no way of knowing that he would dislike X because he asked for Y specifically.

And if we're going to get into unnatural, how about parents who think it's cute to watch their kids flirting like a hawk and then start cooing over it to anyone in the surrounding area and sometimes just bringing it up to random people and being creepy, creepy old people. That's unnatural.

[Serpentine]

Hey guys, Triple J's Hack program is gonna discuss domestic violence in same-sex couples shortly. You can listen here, and you should be able to get the podcast if you miss it.
edit: Oh. Well that was disappointingly short... What a shame. They might talk about it more tomorrow, with call-ins and stuff, but I'm not sure.

[Asta Kask]

Differences that IMO have nothing to do with getting him a toy they clearly knew he wouldn't like because the one he asked for happened to be pink.

The impression I got was very clearly "squelch this behavior" rather than "provide him options." Cuz, hey, I'm all for options. I built legos and played with dolls at that age and my parents kind of gently pushed me more towards the legos, and I'm okay with that. But I wouldn't be if they told me I could only play with the legos.

And the word "unnatural" kind of rubbed me the wrong way. And describing preference for the color pink: just the color, as a "problem."

And they were dead serious? Difficult to believe nowadays, but... yeesh.

[742]

so if "homosexual" is "attracted to people of the same sex"* "heterosexual" is "attracted to people of the opposite sex"* and "bisexual" "attracted to both"* what is "attracted to people who im attracted to"**? we need a fancy sounding word for that, it cant be accepted without a word. if its a sentence then we can just take out the spaces, that will make it more memorable that its a real thing even if people dont remember the exact fancy word for it.

*in what language? latin right? i know; i suck at dead languages.

**or "i want to have sex with people who im attracted to", really anything that expresses that sentiment and should go without saying but does not specifically exclude any group, other than specific people who the speaker does not like/does not find attractive.

edit: i really hope this wasnt too off topic.