LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[Dire Moose]

I can't even imagine parents that would disown their kid like that. I mean, my parents weren't at all supportive of gay rights at the beginning but I think that's because they didn't know any better. After dealing with me, I like to think they've gotten better. Or they're just too polite to say anything negative within my hearing.

But, geeze, I mean I could try to murder them and they'd still come visit me in jail to tell me they still loved me and that they were trying to get me out so I could take anger management classes or something. Their love is just so unconditional.

Well, my girlfriend's parents completely stopped speaking to her once they realized she wasn't going to stop transitioning.

[Coidzor]

Can't see it in my country.

Eh. Secondary and just supplying of a reminder of the context of the statement anyway. Superfluous really, I wouldn't worry about it.

celtois: That sounds rather... interesting.

[rayne_dragon]

Hey I though this might tickle your fancy. Here in Albertan high-schools we have a mandatory course called CALM (Career and Life Management) you have to take it to graduate.

Part of its curriculum is informing students about GLBT individuals, promoting their rights and encouraging the students not to be bigoted against member of the GLBT community.

It's little wonder I've never seen a gay kid at my school being bullied. It would interesting to see if this trend holds across the rest of urban Alberta, country schools I'm pretty sure don't have CALM.

Hmm... geneally this sort of thing makes me want to hide so far in my closet that I'm cuddled up behind my pink pajamas. It makes me think of "sensitivity training" - which does more to promote discrimination than avert it.

But if it's actually working, that's rather awesome and it has my approval. It's also nice to hear that schools there have a class that actually tries to teach something that will be universally useful to people regardless of job. I can't recall learning much that I use at work from highschool.

[Coidzor]

It makes me think of "sensitivity training" - which does more to promote discrimination than avert it.

Yeah, such things did always seem like they would more build resentment for taking up time one could be using to make money or pursue one's own ends(this in the absence of even the most minor of sinister reasons) rather than actually cause one to think and evaluate one's values.

But if it's actually working, that's rather awesome and it has my approval. It's also nice to hear that schools there have a class that actually tries to teach something that will be universally useful to people regardless of job. I can't recall learning much that I use at work from highschool.

I'm not sure that it would really qualify as actually teaching tolerance or anything as metaphysically useful as all that. It just seems like either the general culture of the city just being that much more tolerant on this particular axis such that this class could come into existence in the first place or that such courses are successful at discouraging overt acts of discrimination would be much more probable.

Mostly though, it just makes me think on the implications of having to pass it in order to graduate.

[celtois]

My guess is Coid is probably right about its effect. I know it doesn't prevent homophobia, however it probably discourages people from acting overtly against homosexual individuals .

I my view is the whole course is kinda ridiculous, it's tolerance training/ health class/ basic economics all rolled into one class.

Passing it is pretty easy, I skipped the entire last unit and still got a good mark.

Anyway I hadn't really considered it before, but I hadn't really noticed any sort of bullying of the smattering of open LGBT individuals I know. So I figured the two might be related.

(People still like to use gay as a catch all insult and curse word which bothers me to no end but I guess you can't have everything.)

[golentan]

Less out of touch than I thought I'd be, but still on a borrowed smart phone so apologies for any weirdness. Saw the cutest gay couple here today. Also my sister started pestering me about boys the other day: what I like and what I've done. Why can I never lie to a direct question about my sex life? Why?

[Asta Kask]

Just say "I don't want to talk about it." That's not a lie, is it?

[golentan]

I did. She kept pestering me.

[Ashen Lilies]

So I had this really... interesting conversation today, with someone who I always thought was rather intelligent about these sorts of things. Even if she did accuse me of being homophobic that one time - in front of a bunch of people I was 'out' to. Yeah, that was funny. Anyway.

Friend: So this weekend I was hanging out with this gay Singaporean guy... by the way, I mean he was like, 'gay' gay, but anyway-
Me: ... 'Gay' gay?
Friend: As in, he's actually... done stuff with other guys.
Me: So why is that 'gay' gay, instead of just 'gay'?
Friend: Well I mean, look at [excessively flamboyant guy whose sexuality I am actually unsure of but I think he's most likely bisexual]. I mean, he's gay, but he doesn't actually like guys.
Me: O_o So... He's not gay?
Friend: Of course he's gay! Have you even listened to him speak!?
Me: o_O But you just said he didn't like guys!
Friend: Of course he doesn't. We don't have any actually gay guys in our school.
Me: ... If you say so. ._.

Another gem (from the same conversation):
Friend: What? Please. It has to be more than that [10%]. Most girls are bisexual, after all.
Me: O_O Really? I hadn't noticed?
Friend: Sure. Girls make out with each other all the time.
Me: [knowing her too well for my own good] ... Drunken shenanigans don't count.
Friend: Oh.

[Partysan]

People are strange animals...

[Astrella]

Urgh, so I'm being a coward and didn't call to make an appointment today. Oh well, I still have tomorrow, hopefully I can bring up the courage then.

Okay, I've made the call. They told me to just go to the open hour private sessions in the afternoon, but still, first step taken.

[golentan]

Yeah! You go... Girl?

@kid Kris: Are you sure she actually understands what gay and bi mean? Not to be too mean but even if you're a goodhearted kind and supportive person I don't think you can support something without knowing what it is. And it sounds like she doesn't. Might be a reason to sit down and have "a talk."

[Asta Kask]

I did. She kept pestering me.

Ask her for details about her sexlife. At the very least you should have some fun as well.

[golentan]

Why? I can smell the answer on her. Asking would just make us both horribly uncomfortable.

[Tiger Duck]

I think that is the point, make her horribly uncomfortable so she will stop pestering you.

[Asta Kask]

Exactly. Say "That's how it feels when you ask me. Please don't."

Tell her to watch some yaoi instead.

[golentan]

But at this stage that would be petty vengeance(which I try to avoid) and self destructive(I'd be embarrassed as well).

[Glass Mouse]

Next time, then. Don't answer anything, just counter with "so, how was your last lay?" and hope that gets the message across

[Delusion]

Or just say, "How would you feel if I asked those kind of questions?" it would hopefully seem less petty.

[Coidzor]

Why? I can smell the answer on her. Asking would just make us both horribly uncomfortable.

If that's the case then it's really your duty as her brother and a fellow human being to tell her to wash before going out into the world after having sex so we don't all have to smell it.

[Heliomance]

So I actually got round to registering with the uni counselling service today. They're swamped, so I won't have a regular appointment for a while, but I went to a walk-in. It was odd. Discussing masturbation with a complete stranger is utterly bizarre and somewhat discomfiting.

[The Rose Dragon]

Discussing masturbation with a complete stranger is utterly bizarre and somewhat discomfiting.

Is it? I know it is very unsettling to discuss it with my psychologist. Especially considering I do not partake in that particular pastime.

[scarletsorcerer]

Hello all. This is my first post here - I actually registered to post my story here. I felt I should share it after reading other peoples.

I'm a guy, and I always knew that I was gay. From as young as four or five, looking back, I can see the early signs that I didn't view girls the way a young boy should. I didn't get too embarassed to talk to them like the other boys, they were just other kids.

When I was about six or seven, I'm not sure exactly when, a teenage boy who lived along the street started touching me, sometimes following me or watching me when I played with my friends. Eventually he forced me to do more with him, after he threatened to kill my little sister if I didn't. I was still young enough to believe him, so I did it and then tried to forget about it. His family moved away after a year or so, and I never told anybody what he'd done to me. I knew that I was supposed to, but I also knew that my parents would be upset that they hadn't seen it and protected me from it. I still haven't told them, or my sister, and I never will. My boyfriend knows that there something happened when I was younger, but we haven't talked about it yet. I've only ever told one person, a close online friend, and that was only two years ago (I'm now twenty one).

Going in to high school, knowing that I was gay, I expected to be bullied or harassed. My voice was very high pitched, and still is quite high - and although I did get teased for that, it wasn't bad. I found a good group of friends who never questioned my lack of interest in anyone of either sex. I did at one point think I was bisexual, thinking I had a crush on a female friend of mine, but I think that must've just been a phase or something, as she remains the only girl I've ever thought I was attracted to. I had one girlfriend in high school, only because I didn't want to say no when she asked me out, as that would have hurt her feelings. However, we didn't last a week - she was not a terribly interesting person, only interested in gossip, and she was also quite mean sometimes which made me very uncomfortable. I felt guilty when she would tell me her opinions about people, as though I were partly to blame for insulting them.

When I was in fifth year at high school (I'm in the UK, I don't know what the American equivalent of fifth year would be), I was on a dating website for gay men and talking to this one guy who seemed really nice. I arranged to meet him, and I went over to his place that week. We talked, but he was obviously mostly interested in sex, so I said okay. We were sitting on his bed, kissing, he started removing our clothing, and I let him. I didn't really feel comfortable with it, but I didn't stop him. When things got going, however, I told him to stop, and that I couldn't do it. He didn't stop, though. I don't really remember a lot of what happened. I remember crying, and then my memory is blank. It only restarts as I am sitting on the bus heading home. I didn't tell anyone about that, either. I know I should have. It might have stopped him doing something similar again. He wasn't a UK citizen, though, he was only here for a year before he moved back to Spain, and I never knew his last name, so there is nothing I can do. Sometimes I get angry with myself for not telling anyone at the time, but the past is the past. Mostly I just try to forget everything.

After this I was extremely cautious. I stoped using the dating site, and I decided that I didn't want to have sex ever, and that I was asexual. It worked for a while, sort of. Obviously I couldn't completely supress it, and it totally messed up my schooling, and I became pretty withdrawn for a while. I ended up failing everything that year at school, and I felt pretty depressed for a while. But when the new year rolled around I just threw myself into the work. I've never been the most academically gifted, but I did very well that year. I came out to my sister on the day that my fifth year exam results came - I was crying, feeling like the future was bleak, and it sort of came out. And she said - this is a verbatim quote - "Yeah, yeah, I know - do you want to order take out? That always cheers you up". I love that she didn't make a big deal - I thought she might see me as an "accessory" like some people, the ones who get excited to have a "gay friend".

Fast forward past sixth year at high school and one year at college. I discovered a love for psychology at college, and I got a place studying it at university. I was also back using dating websites to meet people, but only for conversation. I refused to meet anyone. This one guy sent me a message - he was 39, really funny, and we were very similar. We talked and after a few months we shared pictures. After about four months he started to hint that he wanted to meet me, and I sort of freaked out. I got rid of him from my contacts list for a month before I missed him, and started talking to him again. I told him that I'd been buried with work at uni, and that was why I'd disappeared.

He seemed to take the hint that I wouldn't meet, and he stopped directly hinting that he wanted to meet me. But he made me aware that if I ever did want to, he would still like to. After almost a year of talking to him, I agreed to meet him, almost exactly on the mark of the day that he first messaged me. We went to a book shop and picked out some new novels (he got me started on Terry Pratchett that day), and then went upstairs to the cafe. We spent hours talking and it felt like minutes. From the first second I felt comfortable with him - which is extremely rare for me, I find it hard to talk to new people, very difficult to make new friends. He confessed to me that he was the same way, very shy.

We arranged another date, this one at his place. I almost cancelled, as the plan involved staying over at his (we were having a Star Wars marathon viewing session), but on the day I decided to go. We had a great time (5/6 on the first day). When it came to the sleeping arraangements, he tried to give me his bed, but I refused and took the sofa bed. We had several more meetings like this, me staying over at his on the sofa bed. Eventually, one night, I was really tried and I fell asleep on the couch. When I woke up I was in his bed, fully clothed, his arms wrapped around me, and I felt so happy. When he woke up that morning I told him that I loved him.

When I got home, I told my sister and my mum that I was dating someone (this doubled as coming out to mum, but my sister already knew). When I told them about the age gap (I was twenty at the time, so it was a nineteen year age gap; he is only ten years younger than mum!) they weren't surprised either. Mum said that she had always known I was gay, and that she also knew I'd never have a regular kind of relationship with anyone. She was very supportive, everyone has been.

I told my boyfriend about what happened with the first guy I met a few months ago, but only after he told me about a similar incident when he was at university. Someone spiked his drink, but he woke up half way through. That is all I know - I didn't press for details, and neither did he when I told him what happened to me. I was so grateful that he didn't. He is a great guy and I am lucky to have him - he is handsome, funny, clever, romantic, he understands me and I understand him, but most of all, he makes me feel safer than I ever have before. He feels similarly - he says I am good for his health, he has (mostly) quit smoking since I came into his life and he is more active since we got together (so am I), so he feels fitter and younger. He also feels more positive than he did before; he suffered from depression for five years after it, and on and off during his later life. So we compliment each other quite well, really, and I know I am lucky to have found him.

So, thats my story. I hope it wasn't too long, or too dull! And also that it made sense, I've just sat and typed with no editing. And thanks to everyone who has posted their story. I never would have admitted to everything if it hadn't been for some of the stories I have read. Whoever started all of this, thank you; you've really helped.

- scarletsorcerer

[unosarta]

Oh my gosh, ScarletSorcerer, that is absolutely beautiful. Like, oh my gosh, thanks for reaffirming my faith in humanity.

Gaah. It is so sweet... I can't even finish this sentence. Just everything. Oh man.

[Edit]: Obviously the childhood experience thing wasn't sweet, but the fact that you were able to overcome it and find love anyway is really awesomeamazingsauce.

[Kneenibble]

A lovely tale. Be well and thanks for sharing, maléfique rouge.

[Serpentine]

Not directly LGBT-related, but brave kid nonetheless.

[Lissou]

Scarlet, it was long, but it wasn't dull at all. I was so happy when I reached the part about your boyfriend holding you in his arms :) I'm glad you could overcome it all.

But it infuriates me that there are enough people abusing others that both you and your boyfriend have had similar experiences, and you even had two

[Astrella]

Yeah! You go... Girl?

Thank you.
Girl, yes... I'm coming to terms with my genderqueerness... so..yes...female pronouns..I like.

Snip

Aww, this is so sweet. :3
You brightened up my day. :) I wish you much more happiness and good fortune!

[scarletsorcerer]

Thanks everyone who has posted a comment. It means so much to know that there are people who care. I teared up a little reading them.

But it infuriates me that there are enough people abusing others that both you and your boyfriend have had similar experiences, and you even had two

It makes me angry, too. I hate keeping secrets from people. Even when I know that it would hurt them a lot more to know about it than it hurts me to keep quiet. But in a weird, twisted sort of way, I don't regret what happened. I'm happier now than I ever thought I could be. But if it hadn't happened, I almost certainly wouldn't be with the man I love, and that thought is scarier than anything. It led me to something so amazing and wonderful that I can't be sorry that things turned out the way that they did. I don't know how well I've expressed this, its sort of hard to put into words. Its the result of almost a year-long reflection on my life, and it feels pretty complicated reading it back, all I know is that it makes sense to me.

[strawberryman]

So. Here goes nothing!

You could say I have always been a silent supporter of the LGTBA community. I wouldn't say I identify as gay, or transgender, but I have always accepted people for no matter what kind of difference they have from me. However, with no small amount of shame through personal laziness/complacency I have never truly done any research, nor been very vocal about my opinion. As someone who considers ignorance to be the worst thing possible, this is no small thing to me.

But, to my great excitement I have fallen deeply in love with someone who is in the process of transitioning MtF. She has been an online friend of mine (I'm in the US, she's in Norway) for over a year before I even realized I had feelings for her, and even before then it was little issue for me to consider her... well, a her. I had the courage to share my feelings, and after some time she returned the gesture; and we have been in a long-distance relationship for over two months. Next month, she'll be visiting stateside for a few weeks, something I am excited about past the point of words. She is lucky enough to have a supportive family, as well as I am, mostly (I live with my grandmother, and have not spoken to my mother or stepfather in some time, but that's another story).

So I suppose, this is one part relationship advice, another part LGBTA with some intermingling.

As far as the relationship part goes; The long-distance nature of the relationship is not something I wish to perpetuate, so I have been considering moving to Norway, as she has a lot going there in comparison to the very little I have here. Either way one of us would have to sacrifice more than the other in moving since there's no effective midway point to move to. I've done research on Norwegian immigration law, and it seems like it's pretty airtight on needing a purpose to immigrate there, whether it be through employment, studies, or, well, marriage to a citizen, but the latter is something I'd rather not resort to despite the fact that it is something I'd consider in the long run. So, any advice on that front, or firsthand knowledge on the stresses of immigrating would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the LGBTA part goes... well, I am feeling a bit guilty about not doing more to support the community, not only because of the insight my girlfriend has given me, but my grandmother also has a gay friend whom I am also very close with. I certainly have the time and ability to do so. So at the very least, I would like to do something productive; if anyone else in Minnesota is aware of any groups spreading knowledge about the LGBTA community as well as pushing for their rights that need help, I would love to give my time. If there's even just something I can do from my computer, I can do plenty of that given the sheer amount of free time I have. Reliable sources of information would be great too, and at the very least you all can count me in for participating in this thread.

Sorry if I've rambled a lot, and equally if not more sorry if I used any terms inaccurately that offend anyone.