Portal 2: The Cake Is Still A Lie

[smuchmuch]

Or simply reorganised the room. Portals alway dispear whenever the pannel they're on moves (alway kinda wondered about that worked too)

[Frankelshtein]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/catsy/s...7626443233925/

Saw this on Kotaku, had to share

[The Linker]

Or simply reorganised the room. Portals alway dispear whene the pannel they're on moves (alway kinda wondered about that worked too)

Yeah. When I did the puzzle with the laser going through the moving portal that slices all the neurotoxin pipes, I was hoping that that limitation was taken out and we'd have some neat moving-portal puzzles. But alas, it was a one-time thing.

[Fjolnir]

I would actually like to see a co-op gravity gun/portal gun game, chucking random items through the portal to damage enemies via speed conservation if you can't get a direct line to fire at them or using their fire against them seems like it would be a fun trick.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Yeah. When I did the puzzle with the laser going through the moving portal that slices all the neurotoxin pipes, I was hoping that that limitation was taken out and we'd have some neat moving-portal puzzles. But alas, it was a one-time thing.

Word of Valve says that, officially, the room was moving, not the portal platforms.

[AlterForm]

Yeah. When I did the puzzle with the laser going through the moving portal that slices all the neurotoxin pipes, I was hoping that that limitation was taken out and we'd have some neat moving-portal puzzles. But alas, it was a one-time thing.

That bothered me too. Didn't take me long to try to shoot the moving panels, but we had never been trained to shoot moving panels before, so it was a very counter-intuitive solution moment.

Word of Valve says that, officially, the room was moving, not the portal platforms.

This, however, makes even less sense.

There were, IIRC, two panels moving orthogonally to each at the same time, visible at the same time as well. This is not possible, because the panel paths constrain the motion of the neurotoxin room along all three axes, preventing any movement at all if the rails are stationary as stated. Further, even with Aperture's penchant for inefficiency, I can't see any possible way for the pipes/tubing pumping neurotoxin around to move with the room itself without an absurdly complicated system of pipes constantly detaching and reattaching themselves to some output pipe somewhere else.

[EDIT]: And furthermore, if the room is moving we still have a problem! The portal collecting the laser was stationary with respect to the room, and thus would itself have been moving if the room was moving too! It occurs to me that the best way to constrain portal placement, then, is to state that portals must be static in position relative to each other; to test this you construct a frame of reference centered on one portal and measure the velocity of the other from within this frame of reference. If v != 0, the portal placed last dissolved. This would, however, slightly break canon in that you previously were unable to place your first portal on a moving object.

I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but a solution that seems immediately apparent to me (and preserves the "no mobile portal" canon) is to have the panels be stationary but have the pipes undulating up and down due to neurotoxin pressures. The player fires their portal, and the pipes bounch up and down into the path of the laser, slicing themselves open. Bam. Cave Johnson. We're done here.

[EDIT2]: Or, we allow portals to be moving relative to each other in space. This does open up some very nice design space in the puzzle realm, and is apparently possible in the Portal 2 engine.

[EDIT3]: A little searching suggests that maybe, maybe, we have consistency in that that spot is the only time in either game where surface motion is purely linear with no rotational component. I can't remember enough mobile surfaces to corroborate this, however.

[Seerow]

This, however, makes even less sense.

There were, IIRC, two panels moving orthogonally to each at the same time, visible at the same time as well. This is not possible, because the panel paths constrain the motion of the neurotoxin room along all three axes, preventing any movement at all if the rails are stationary as stated. Further, even with Aperture's penchant for inefficiency, I can't see any possible way for the pipes/tubing pumping neurotoxin around to move with the room itself without an absurdly complicated system of pipes constantly detaching and reattaching themselves to some output pipe somewhere else.

[EDIT]: And furthermore, if the room is moving we still have a problem! The portal collecting the laser was stationary with respect to the room, and thus would itself have been moving if the room was moving too! It occurs to me that the best way to constrain portal placement, then, is to state that portals must be static in position relative to each other; to test this you construct a frame of reference centered on one portal and measure the velocity of the other from within this frame of reference. If v != 0, the portal placed last dissolved. This would, however, slightly break canon in that you previously were unable to place your first portal on a moving object.

I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but a solution that seems immediately apparent to me (and preserves the "no mobile portal" canon) is to have the panels be stationary but have the pipes undulating up and down due to neurotoxin pressures. The player fires their portal, and the pipes bounch up and down into the path of the laser, slicing themselves open. Bam. Cave Johnson. We're done here.

[EDIT2]: Or, we allow portals to be moving relative to each other in space. This does open up some very nice design space in the puzzle realm, and is apparently possible in the Portal 2 engine.

[EDIT3]: A little searching suggests that maybe, maybe, we have consistency in that that spot is the only time in either game where surface motion is purely linear with no rotational component. I can't remember enough mobile surfaces to corroborate this, however.

I think what they meant by that statement is that from a game mechanics perspective, the room itself was moving. As Chell, you would see what you saw (moving panels), but from a game point of view, it seems they have a limitation in their game engine from being able to place portals on moving objects, and making the room move around the objects was their work around for a single niche case. It was too inefficient to make a constant addition to the puzzles.

Note they used similar terminology when discussing the room wheatley picks up and takes around the facility at the beginning of the game. According to them, the room doesn't move at all, the background just moves around it. If you take this litterally, it makes no sense in the game world. If you consider this is them describing what is going on behind the scenes and how they programmed it, it doesn't seem as out there.

[Grif]

Word of Valve says that, officially, the room was moving, not the portal platforms.

Wow, that's a ingenious way to workaround the limitation of portals on moving panels.

When you can't move the panels, you move the room! This is the Aperture Science way.

[Draconi Redfir]

one commentary node DID say there was only one impossible space left in the entire game (They had to do funny things while making it, rooms bigger on the inside and such) i assumed it was the eyelids of Wheatly and the cores, as an earlier node said they just kind of bunched up when not visible by the player. But it's possible that impossible space is the neurotoxin room.


Also: Move over Alix vance, i now ship Gordon x Chell

[Etcetera]

one commentary node DID say there was only one impossible space left in the entire game (They had to do funny things while making it, rooms bigger on the inside and such) i assumed it was the eyelids of Wheatly and the cores, as an earlier node said they just kind of bunched up when not visible by the player. But it's possible that impossible space is the neurotoxin room.


Also: Move over Alix vance, i now ship Gordon x Chell

I think when they mentioned impossible rooms, it was in the context that when they were working on maps most of the rooms were connected by "portals", and they arranged the rooms so that this was no longer necessary to do this, except in one case.

Which I presume was the non-bottomless pit leading to retro aperture, because iirc it was about 4km deep.

[AlterForm]

I think when they mentioned impossible rooms, it was in the context that when they were working on maps most of the rooms were connected by "portals", and they arranged the rooms so that this was no longer necessary to do this, except in one case.

Which I presume was the non-bottomless pit leading to retro aperture, because iirc it was about 4km deep.

Noclipping around in my commentary run I discovered that the test chamber where Wheatley breaks you out actually consists of two rooms. One is the lit test chamber, and the other is the dark one connected to your escape route; you get teleported to it when the lights flicker off momentarily.

As for moving the room: As I said, that still won't work. You can see both panels moving relative to each other at the same time, and moving relative to the room. There is, at most, one static object in that trinity. Found a video demo of moving portals, though, so it is definitely possible in the engine.

[Bayar]

Also: Move over Alix vance, i now ship Gordon x Chell

Pfff, Gordon x Lamarr is better

[The Glyphstone]

Ajax x Dog 4ever.

[Wabbajack]

As for moving the room: As I said, that still won't work. You can see both panels moving relative to each other at the same time, and moving relative to the room. There is, at most, one static object in that trinity. Found a video demo of moving portals, though, so it is definitely possible in the engine.

What you see isn't necessary what is happening. Portal 2 supports world-portals that are practically invisible.

[RPharazon]

-snip-

If the room can't move, and the panels aren't moving, surely the trees are moving.

[AlterForm]

What you see isn't necessary what is happening. Portal 2 supports world-portals that are practically invisible.

...sure. Valve might be working some crazy voodoo-magic with invisible worldportals connecting disjointed space to make the scene work.

That only works on a meta-game level, and still doesn't explain the contradiction with the previously implied canon that portals cannot exist on moving surfaces. (Which may have been implicitly contradicted here, but it's rather odd to only use the concept in that one puzzle in that one room.)

[EDIT]:

If the room can't move, and the panels aren't moving, surely the trees are moving.

Obviously, this is the only sane solution to the conundrum.

[pffh]

...sure. Valve might be working some crazy voodoo-magic with invisible worldportals connecting disjointed space to make the scene work.

That only works on a meta-game level, and still doesn't explain the contradiction with the previously implied canon that portals cannot exist on moving surfaces. (Which may have been implicitly contradicted here, but it's rather odd to only use the concept in that one puzzle in that one room.)

[EDIT]:


Obviously, this is the only sane solution to the conundrum.

Maybe those moving panels were coated with moon gel with higher concentration of moon rocks in it then normal moon gel and thus allowed more stable portals to form. I support this hypothesis with the fact that the portal on the moon remained stable even though it should be moving quite fast relative to the portal still on earth.

[AlterForm]

Maybe those moving panels were coated with moon gel with higher concentration of moon rocks in it then normal moon gel and thus allowed more stable portals to form. I support this hypothesis with the fact that the portal on the moon remained stable even though it should be moving quite fast relative to the portal still on earth.

There's no evidence to support this ... but it sounds like just bull****ty enough science to be proper Aperture Science. Absent any other information, I like this theory.

[blackfox]

Oh my god this is the best thing

[The_Final_Stand]

I have discovered something about Rick, the Adventure Sphere.

Spoiler

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If you hold on to Rick for long enough, he will attempt to provide you with witty one liners to destroy Wheatley with. He will note that it's better for Wheatley to spout off a line for you to throw back in his face, and will tell you to try and get him to say "You two have been a thorn in my side for long enough!".

Get to the end of the boss fight, having only attached Rick after this has been said, and Wheatley will say the given line, allowing Rick to spout off his one liner.

It's best to obtain Rick as soon as possible, and hold on to him for as long as possible. The one liner dialogue occurs after the Music of Adventure, which does take some time, if I remember correctly.

[Shadowleaf]

"Because I'm a potato." Wait, where did wheatly get a potato from anyway?

I still don't get how GLaDOS gets back in control at the end, since the stalemate button wasn't pressed, also on that subject, where is the button for stopping the transplant, what if the stalemate associate wanted to keep the original core.

Already been answered, but:

Spoiler

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Did you notice that the Bring Your Daughter To Work day science project with the potato plant said by Chell?

[The Linker]

Note they used similar terminology when discussing the room wheatley picks up and takes around the facility at the beginning of the game. According to them, the room doesn't move at all, the background just moves around it. If you take this litterally, it makes no sense in the game world. If you consider this is them describing what is going on behind the scenes and how they programmed it, it doesn't seem as out there.

I thought I heard that the room being picked up and moved around was exactly what it appeared to be -- the trickery lay in the fact that the player was never in the room. Your character is inside a room with the same hitbox (including bed, desser, etc.), so it limits your movement, but your view is tied to the room rumbling around the facility. As soon as it crashes through the 'loading dock 15m down' wall, you get teleported into the actual room.

[Etcetera]

I thought I heard that the room being picked up and moved around was exactly what it appeared to be -- the trickery lay in the fact that the player was never in the room. Your character is inside a room with the same hitbox (including bed, desser, etc.), so it limits your movement, but your view is tied to the room rumbling around the facility. As soon as it crashes through the 'loading dock 15m down' wall, you get teleported into the actual room.

Yeah, the room you're actually moving around in terms of navmesh and stuff is tucked away somewhere in a corner of the map, like the Breencast room from HL2.

"Attempting a manual override of the wall."
Great line.

[Khosan]

I thought I heard that the room being picked up and moved around was exactly what it appeared to be -- the trickery lay in the fact that the player was never in the room. Your character is inside a room with the same hitbox (including bed, desser, etc.), so it limits your movement, but your view is tied to the room rumbling around the facility. As soon as it crashes through the 'loading dock 15m down' wall, you get teleported into the actual room.

Indeed. It's in the developer commentary.

[The Linker]

Aye. That's where I heard it. I should have clarified 'what I heard Valve say.'

[Alchemistmerlin]

Well, according to Kotaku we'll be getting our first DLC this summer.

Here's hoping it's not Co-op only.

[smuchmuch]

one commentary node DID say there was only one impossible space left in the entire game (They had to do funny things while making it, rooms bigger on the inside and such) i assumed it was the eyelids of Wheatly and the cores, as an earlier node said they just kind of bunched up when not visible by the player. But it's possible that impossible space is the neurotoxin room.

It's a possibility.
Another one I've readed is GLAdos chamber from the start.
According to someon who noclipped here, the incinerator shaft in wich GLados drops you should actualy collide with the space under the chamber (the one you go tough to go to the ciruit breakers), so it's actuallty 'cut' in the middle with two invisible portals to make the seam.

[skb]

anyone up for a semi-blind co-op run tomorrow? I'm at gmt+1. (I've done some rooms, not many, with random internet persons)

[Qwertystop]

anyone up for a semi-blind co-op run tomorrow? I'm at gmt+1. (I've done some rooms, not many, with random internet persons)

I've done similarly, but I'm at GMT-5. We probably couldn't time it right...

[Jahkaivah]

So I beat single player yesterday and I am hoping to find somebody awesome to play co-op with who hasn't played it before.

The level design isn't quite as good in some respects. The levels themselves are beautiful, but one area in particular (about two thirds of the way through the game) made me rather frustrated with how narrow it was and how unintuitive it was to make progress. Spoiler below, for what I'm talking about:

Spoiler

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Long of it short, you're supposed to ascend the interior of a pipe/duct which doesn't take to portals. What you're supposed to do, from what I gathered, is use portals to splash the inside with the white goo, which makes it portal-accessible. Trouble is, very little in the pipe actually has the goo stick to it, angles are bad, and since you're using goo to make room for portals to vent in more goo, it's just really slow and really clumsy. To top it all off, the pipe angles at one point, and it's very disorienting because there's no good indicator of 'up' until you find yourself sliding down the pipe (and chances are, losing a goodly amount of progress in the process)

A puzzle which actually makes you forget which way was up. I couldn't help but laugh at the brilliance of that.