General Anime Discussion: Area 11

[Nerd-o-rama]

@ Nerdorama:
Do you mean that because an internet argument ruins your appetite, or because you think F/Z is a women-fridge fest?

If the former, then damn man/woman harden up some. You'll miss a lot of good stuff that way. Obviously the better something is, the more discussion it would engender.

If the latter, then that means you find the fridge theorists' arguments to be more convincing. In that case, then yeah don't watch F/Z. Because your perspective is already colored in that shade to begin with, and that's all you'd be thinking about the whole show.

Because one side of this argument - the content of the argument, not the supposed content of the show - disgusts me, and the other side is tl;dr.

[Prime32]

Re: spoilers, maybe it would be easier to take the issue to another thread and mark it with a spoiler tag.

From what I've heard, Nasu gave Urobuchi a story outline and a cast of characters to work with, which he couldn't deviate much from.

[Kato]

...Mawaru Penguindrum...

To be honest, I liked the show when it was all fun and games. It had some amazing episodes but in the long run it lost itself in weird metaphors, plot twists and I don't think exactly messages but... well, something that might have been messages.

Momoka was just... urgh. Sorry, after the show I really can't stand anything about her. Such a perfect little Jesus figure.

I guess I'll admit I'm kind of ignorant towards all those fancy art style features it had, though I liked a few of them but overall pretty much whenever it got serious I lost interest.

I'm not quite sure what my take home message was concerning guilt... It felt more along the lines 'if you don't stop feeling guilty for things you did not do you will suffer for it' (and possibly 'don't repeat the mistakes of your parents'(?))

[kamikasei]

It has more to do with the fact that everyone involved has been posting damn unmarked spoilers about the whole series, especially about the ending, since the start of this friggin' discussion.

Fair point. I apologize. I've gone back and edited spoilers into my posts.

[Poison_Fish]

Would there be anyone out there who enjoyed the second half of Mawaru Penguindrum and be able to explain what it meant for them?

I didn't really like the second half of the series. It felt rather forced, and the only thing keeping the series alive for me was the penguin hijinks. I prefer not to consider the series as a whole, and only consider good component parts like survival strategy and "For Himari, bro".

As for the F/Z discussion we've nearly hit fan misogyny bingo!!! Congratulations, Mlai. We even have you complaining to a women about her "hissyfits" and her "credibility", while simultaneously failing to understand their points, so you make up their points for them! A truly effective tactic! What a winner we have here!

Speaking of ignorance I just love how you can pretend to be an expert on cultural gender roles and yet refer to it as "Jpnese-female-only mindset". You know what that tells me by your language alone? That you have no clue what you are even talking about.

[MLai]

1. I have gone back and spoiler-tagged all my F/Z related posts.
2. Also I will not respond further on the F/Z discussion unless someone feels it's necessary to create a separate topic on it.

@ The post below mine: Yeah, real mature, Poisonfish.

[Poison_Fish]

Ah, the good old escape hatch. Don't let the hatch hit you on the way out Mlai.

Moving on, not a lot excites me for this season of shows. I'm basically following Sword Art Online and Eureka Seven AO.

[mallorean_thug]

Would there be anyone out there who enjoyed the second half of Mawaru Penguindrum and be able to explain what it meant for them?

Mawaru Penguindrum is my 4th favorite anime. Full stop. Not within a specific genre or category, not for just a portion of the show, but for its entirety within the entirety of my anime experience. I could easily write a 10-20 page essay on the show. The confusion some have about the second half of the show, both here and IRL, makes me want to actually do so, that I may preempt such questions by handing them a copy of my essay or by copy/pasting its contents into this text box.

However, I have yet to do so, and care enough about the show that I would be embarrassed to sloppily type out the first draft of half a page of it here only to confuse people further.

So instead I'm going to cheat and just link you to somebody else's (actually 2 somebodies) well thought out ramblings on the subject. http://altairandvega.wordpress.com/2...end/#more-2178

EDIT: Oh also new shows:

Moyashimon S2: More of Moyashimon S1. Sure its been 5 years, and they've slightly altered the character designs, but its still the exact same show. First episode was mostly just recap since evens fans need some refreshing after 5 years. For people that haven't seen Moyashimon S1, go watch it and come back. If you enjoy college hijinks with a smattering of chibi educational microbiology on the side, you'll love it.

Natsuyuki Rendevous: Josei comedy/drama/romance/I'm not sure which direction they're going with this. Airing on noitaminA already makes it a must watch and I try to follow at least one josei show every season for a change of pace (though usually there's only 1 josei show every season and more often than not its on noitaminA so that usually makes it pretty easy). Somehow they've managed to make a deadbeat male lead likable, but I think that mostly has to do with having him play off the other deadbeat male lead. I can already see us heading toward Honey and Clover level love dodecahedrons and drama, but hey, thats what I'm nominally here for. We'll see how the execution holds up.

Joshiraku: Its based off a manga written by Kumeta. If that means nothing to you, go try Sayonara Zetsubuou Sensei and come back. Additionally, its the most Japanese thing I've probably ever encountered, and the only person translating it says that its basically impossible to translate, and you won't really get to appreciate the show properly, instead you'll get to watch him try to make up bad english puns that fit where the bad Japanese puns go. Finally, and the show warns you about it, in the opening skit, the show will be nothing but 5 girls sitting in a dressing room and talking. I enjoyed the first episode. How well Vale (the translator) does will probably be 90% of whether I enjoy it or not, because I have full confidence in JC staff animating cute girls and Kumeta being Kumeta.

Sword Art Online: I went into episode 1 with low expectations for everything but the OST. I came out with lowered expectations for the OST, much higher expectations for the visuals, and a grudging hope that perhaps the plot and characters won't, in fact, be ****. The premise works because its tried and true (though apparently the author managed to publish before .hack so not that tried and true for its time) and unlike some early detractors online (read as trolls) I can suspend my disbelief enough for the plot devices to make uber Hardcore mode a reality. Whether this is good or not will probably hinge on whether we have more of a single female lead show up as about half of the ED would suggest, or whether the self insert MC develops a harem, as the other half of the ED would suggest.

Muv Luv: Its bad, its going to continue being bad, and it has no budget. But I'll probably continue watching because while the show itself may not be entertaining enough, the discussions online (sadly not here because this thread has mostly died) have already become one of the highlights of my week. But seriously, there's nothing good about grimdark Moeship Troopers. At least Verhoevan's focus was on valid social commentary and used the hyperbole to further that. Muv Luv just takes itself too seriously.

Humanity Has Declined: Comedy of the season so far. As with any comedy you'll have to taste and see because of varying tastes. Also I approve of the bright color palette that attempts to rival that of Tsuritama. Realistic shading is boring.

[banthesun]

Mawaru Penguindrum is my 4th favorite anime. Full stop. Not within a specific genre or category, not for just a portion of the show, but for its entirety within the entirety of my anime experience. I could easily write a 10-20 page essay on the show. The confusion some have about the second half of the show, both here and IRL, makes me want to actually do so, that I may preempt such questions by handing them a copy of my essay or by copy/pasting its contents into this text box.

However, I have yet to do so, and care enough about the show that I would be embarrassed to sloppily type out the first draft of half a page of it here only to confuse people further.

So instead I'm going to cheat and just link you to somebody else's (actually 2 somebodies) well thought out ramblings on the subject. http://altairandvega.wordpress.com/2...end/#more-2178

Very interesting. That's certainly given me a more positive outlook on the second half of the series. I'm still not sure what that has to do with Ringo's storyline (though I guess I can see hints of those themes when I think through it) or why

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Kanba and Shouma die (at least partially) at the end.

Thanks for the link, though now I'm curious as to what the three shows you consider better than it are

[mallorean_thug]

Spoilers for Penguindrum

Spoiler

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Well, the reason the Takakura brothers "died" in the last episode is completely tied in with the themes of the series and the meaning of the Penguindrum.

One of the major points that the show makes is that families are important because of the unconditional love a family shares. Knowing that such love exists for you lets you bear the pain of living more easily, and having experienced such love, you can love other people in turn. Within the allegorical language of the show, sharing such love is "sharing the fruit of fate" (Remembering that the Fruit of Fate is also the Penguindrum, and visually represented by an apple). Children that are in broken families and have never received such unconditional love cannot stand the pain of living for lack of that love AND are unable to reach out to those outside their family for such love because they've never experienced it (They become invisible and torn apart by the child broiler). However, somebody who has experienced such love can reach out and share that feeling with them (Share the fruit of fate)

Originally out of the three Takakura siblings, only Kanba had a loving family. However he is able to reach out and share those feelings with Shouma, who in turn reaches out to Himari. Then Himari in turn shares with Kanba, who shares back with Himari, who shares with Shouma, who shares with Kanba, ect. Thus the title, Mawaru (Spinning) Penguindrum. In this way the three of them are able to survive with only 1 full apple worth of love. However, such a balance is fragile, and the pain of the world's hatred from the terrorist attacks disrupts it. Then we get the contents of the series, and in the last episode both Kanba and Shouma give up their own apples to save Himari. Then Shouma takes the punishment for Ringo.

Or more elegantly:

And since you asked, its Haibane Renmei, The Tatami Galaxy, and Princess Tutu. In that order.

[tensai_oni]

Muv Luv: Its bad, its going to continue being bad, and it has no budget. But I'll probably continue watching because while the show itself may not be entertaining enough, the discussions online (sadly not here because this thread has mostly died) have already become one of the highlights of my week. But seriously, there's nothing good about grimdark Moeship Troopers. At least Verhoevan's focus was on valid social commentary and used the hyperbole to further that. Muv Luv just takes itself too seriously.

It's based on a very (in)famous visual novel, but then - the VN is a three-parter, with lots of setup before you even actually GET to the mecha and alien invasion and dying horribly parts. And it's an alternate universe to ML Extra or Unlimited anyway. So it probably works better when you witness familiar characters in normal at first, but steadily darker and more depressing circumstances. Rather than being thrown straight into the Alternative scenario, and a side-story to that - as the anime is a side story adaptation.

But I strongly suspect the VN is overhyped anyway. I'll just reserve judgement until I actually have free time to read through it. Six months or so should be enough - it's rather long.

[A Rainy Knight]

Well, after plenty of prodding from one of my friends, I finally took a quiet day to sit down and watch all of Puella Magi Madoka Magica in one sitting. And hot dang, it really was as good as he said it was going to be. Guess I'm a little late to the party on this one, though.

[Terraoblivion]

Don't worry, lots of people were. I was avoiding it for a long while because I was certain that it would be too pointlessly dark. Then once I finally couldn't suppress my interest in what I heard and actually watched it I was rambling for days, including embarrassing amounts of fangirling over Homura.

[Tengu_temp]

I thought you still do that?

[Terraoblivion]

Oh, certainly, why would I stop fangirling over HomuHomu? I just don't use it constantly like I did early on.

Also, I have a busy schedule, I also need to find time to fangirl over Marika and Jenny after all.

[Raistlin1040]

Against advice, I watched Gurren Lagann and really didn't get why you all said it was so "silly" or "lighthearted". It was pretty funny, yeah, but it was also pretty heavy, especially after the timeskip. I don't know, I didn't get "silly" from it after like the third episode. Might be my all-time favorite anime now. Probably going to watch the movies until I can decide what to watch next.

[Kato]

Against advice, I watched Gurren Lagann and really didn't get why you all said it was so "silly" or "lighthearted". It was pretty funny, yeah, but it was also pretty heavy, especially after the timeskip. I don't know, I didn't get "silly" from it after like the third episode.

Episode three? How about the giant bath house with bunny gainax cameos and naked... nakedness all around? Or people punching holes in the universe? Sure, it has a lot of heaviness but saying TTGL ever stops being silly up to the final fight means you missed something or you don't know how galaxies work.



On another note... anyone else got some pretty weird vibes from Rebecca's transformation sequence in Dog Days'? I mean, I don't mind my good chunk of fanservice in DD but that was like a split second from "I've seen enough hentai...' If it didn't cross the border. (Also, in general, the sequence was kind of weird, but the rest of the episode was good enough)

[Prime32]

On another note... anyone else got some pretty weird vibes from Rebecca's transformation sequence in Dgo Days'? I mean, I don't mind my good chunk of fanservice in DD but that was like a split second from "I've seen enough hentai...' If it didn't cross the border. (Also, in general, the sequence was kind of weird, but the rest of the episode was good enough)

Yeah, that sequence was both suggestive and extremely confusing.

[Soras Teva Gee]

On another note... anyone else got some pretty weird vibes from Rebecca's transformation sequence in Dgo Days'? I mean, I don't mind my good chunk of fanservice in DD but that was like a split second from "I've seen enough hentai...' If it didn't cross the border. (Also, in general, the sequence was kind of weird, but the rest of the episode was good enough)

I got a distinctly cyberpunk vibe off the whole thing myself, which was both good and bad.

And yeah that was cutting it pretty razor thin even for a magical girl transformation.

Plus it was perhaps just a bit too long, felt like it had too much going on.

(I'll tolerate it so long as it follows the studio's Nanoha-rule)

[Terraoblivion]

Against advice, I watched Gurren Lagann and really didn't get why you all said it was so "silly" or "lighthearted". It was pretty funny, yeah, but it was also pretty heavy, especially after the timeskip. I don't know, I didn't get "silly" from it after like the third episode. Might be my all-time favorite anime now. Probably going to watch the movies until I can decide what to watch next.

I'm not entirely sure how you can see it as anything but lighthearted. There are a couple of serious moments and a few deaths, but they're all treated as cool and heroic, not horrible and terrifying. Try comparing it to similar events in, say, Gundam or Madoka for a contrast in portrayal.

[Raistlin1040]

Silly and lighthearted makes me think of something like This. You're right that the serious moments in Gurren Lagann often come in Cool and Heroic mode, but that's the middle ground between edgy and silly, I think. Sure, Gurren Lagann is over the top, but nothing about

Spoiler

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Kamina's death, or Kittan's, or any of the other deaths

is "lighthearted". Just because your die like a Hero doesn't mean you didn't die. After the first major death in the series, it's pretty clear for a good three or four episodes just how emotionally draining it was on all the main characters. However, point taken on the bathhouse. I'll say Episode 8 is where it starts to become more serious and episode 17 is where it goes full badass.

[Terraoblivion]

There are many silly bits. Like the physics of the show or the way they transport the battleship across the sea, but it's not consistently silly, but it is lighthearted almost all the time. Fighting is not a desperate struggle for your life nor is it particularly horrible, instead it's something where you kick ass and show off how awesome you are while fighting bizarre and energetic enemies. There are the darker moments, but they're relatively rare and come against a backdrop of the over the top heroics, silly things and general certainty that everything will work out. So yeah, I'd say it is both silly and lighthearted not just restricted solely to silliness. Especially since I cannot think of a comparatively combat focused show that's as light or lighter than TTGL.

[Tengu_temp]

Well, there's Nanoha. Or Avatar.

[Kato]

Well, there's Nanoha. Or Avatar.

There are lot's of shows which are pretty light hearted and combat based... Well, I guess it's personal preference how light hearted you consider them but still.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, there's Nanoha. Or Avatar.

Avatar has some fairly dark moments, and that's not even counting Korra, though they are individual points. Same with Nanoha which only gets into darker stuff a couple scenes a season, and even then it's just a momentary point of dramatic tension.

It's the same with TTGL. Overall, it's lighthearted and upbeat, but that doesn't stop things from getting serious for the sake of some engaging drama from time to time.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I don't know that I'd consider Nanoha exactly lighthearted. I mean comparing the respective Eva to its Gundam most certainly, but once the show really gets started I think it takes itself pretty seriously. Something TTGL does not.

Speaking of which is there a TTGL equivalent magical girl show to make the mecha mahou trinity complete?

[Nerd-o-rama]

The thing with Nanoha is that regardless of how serious things get, everything always turns out pretty definitely okay, usually with the basic conflict explained as a massive misunderstanding manipulated by one mastermind who either Disney's her way into a blameless death or goes to prison easily. And characters are always believably able to make friends and/or family and go back to their fanservice interludes.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'd consider that more being optimistic then being lighthearted. Or some relevant difference. Nanoha pretty much always plays itself straight or at least became so.

I'd point to the difference between cat Jewel Seed incident in the series and then in the movie. The first is lighthearted and abruptly ends that when Fate shoots the poor kitty. The movie plays it seriously the whole way through.

[A Rainy Knight]

Hoo boy... I finally finished Evangelion. It was going great until, oh, maybe episode 23 or so, and then everything just seemed to fall apart into a bunch of philosophical rambling. For anyone who's seen it, does End of Evangelion do any better of a job concluding it, or is this just a series that I'm never going to understand?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Hoo boy... I finally finished Evangelion. It was going great until, oh, maybe episode 23 or so, and then everything just seemed to fall apart into a bunch of philosophical rambling. For anyone who's seen it, does End of Evangelion do any better of a job concluding it, or is this just a series that I'm never going to understand?

Generally opinion is yes.

If nothing else the movie does not take place entirely inside Shinji's head. Which isn't to say much of it doesn't.

And you meant psychological rambling right.