General Anime Discussion: Area 11

[Nerd-o-rama]

Has anyone seen Persona 4's true ending episode? I finally got the chance to watch it, what did you guys think of it?

The final boss inflicted the most horrifying punishment she could on poor Yu.

Spoiler

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She turned his life into Endless Eight.

That said I think the episode was very good and hit every point they wanted to hit. The only problem was, even at 30 minutes, they had to rush through a lot of it, making the end boss even more of a cipher (and Giant Space Flea) than she was before. What they did focus on was the end of Yu's character arc, and that was done pretty well in the time they had allotted. Also hilariously.

[bue52]

I felt like the endless eight was also like an allegory for the gamer, who is playing Yu, each time he restarts he uses his meta-game knowledge to get closer to the true ending. Maybe it's a homage to how hard it is to get to the true ending if you do not read about it before hand.

[mallorean_thug]

Moar hype for Fall Season now that promo videos are out.

For those who don't feel like looking up said promo videos, researching staff lists, and looking into the original material to be adapted, here's Scamp's take and here's psgels's take (note that psgels did his about a month ago, so some of his info is outdated and without promo vids. Just wanted to include more than one knowledgeable person's opinion)

So based on all that additional information and additional announced shows, I'll be removing Haitai Nanafa and adding Magi, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun, From the New World, Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga ****ai, and Wooser's Hand to Mouth life to my anticipated shows . . . which now sit at:

GET HYPE tier:
Psycho Pass
K
Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga ****ai
Kyousogiga (Note that its 5 10 minute ONAs instead of a series, and the first one has already aired)

Mite b cool tier:
Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun
Robotics;Note
From the New World
Wooser's Hand to Mouth life

Why the heck not tier:
Little Busters
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Magi

Sequels tier:
Jormungand s2

[userpay]

I know its not anime but I certainly enjoyed the first episode of Kamen Rider Wizard.

[Kitten Champion]

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is getting a television anime series? Wow, I think it's actually older than me. The art style of the manga changes notably over time. I wonder what the anime will actually look like.

[Togath]

I was surprised when i noticed that one as well, it'll be interesting to see it(can't really think of many manga that have run that long, and then got an anime adaption 25 years down the road)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Guyver had a TV anime in the 2000s (after only having had an OVA when it was new).

[Fri]

So I just watched Katanagatari out of a whim without even knowing what's it about and who made it. I just found out that it's by nisio ishin after finishing it. I now realized how somehow his writing soothe me.

Anyway, any recommendation for similar show? (Don't recommend bakemonogatari, obviously). I don't know myself what I mean by similar though. Though maybe, preferably something with abit more stylish look? I just realized that medaka box is by him, but I'm not sold on the artstyle. Maybe later.

[mallorean_thug]

Eh the artstyle in Katanagatari is half Take's original character designs from the LN illustrations and half a quasi-japanese woodcut aesthetic as animated by White Fox. While Bakemonogatari is character designs from the LN illustrations by Vofan with a super modern aesthetic as animated (or should I say powerpointed) by SHAFT, and Medaka Box is manga drawn by Akira Akatsuki as colored by Gainax (Budget? What budget). So if the visuals of Katanagatari are what you like, more NisiOisiN stuff won't help. As far as I can figure out without knowing Japanese, Take's only ever illustrated the Katanagatari and Zaregoto novels so you're out of luck for getting more of his character designs, and White Fox has only ever done Katanagatari, Steins;Gate, Jormungand, and Tears to Tiara, all of which slavishly reproduce the original artists' visions rather than adding their own style, so those other three shows aren't what you're looking for either.

Left with just a woodcut aestetic the only other show that really does that is Mononoke (not the movie Princess Mononoke, the series Mononoke). Which is really quite good and I'd recommend it.

If you really like NisiOisiN's writing style, go read the first two books of his Zaregoto series. The second book is probably the best mystery I've read that wasn't written more than 35 years ago. Sadly you can't read past that because while it was being translated by Del Ray, Kodansha USA bought them out and hasn't said a word about the series since.

[Fri]

Nah, I don't mean for the style to be exactly like Katanagatari. I just like stylish animes. I'm always a sucker for style, in any media. I'm a style over substance guy. That's why I like studio shaft so much. Bakemonogatari is already one of my favourite anime (though it's more because of Senjougahara I guess?), and I always say that SZS is my favourite anime of all time.

I'm already considering mononoke. Though I guess why I didn't decide to watch it straight was because I was still in a weird mood because of Katanagatari and I was hoping for something with a pair I can ship...

While we're at it, any recommendation on a series about a pair of partners travelling? Other than Spice and Wolf.

Or if that's too limiting, dunno, a pair of partners doing **** together, I guess...

[Prime32]

While we're at it, any recommendation on a series about a pair of partners travelling? Other than Spice and Wolf.

Or if that's too limiting, dunno, a pair of partners doing **** together, I guess...

Dantalian no Shoka?

[Fri]

that actually sounds kinda interesting. I might check it.

or maybe I could just rewatch spice and wolf. It's been a while.

[mallorean_thug]

As three of my favorite anime couples are already Holo/Lawrence, Araragi/Senjougahara, and Togame/Shichika, I'll attack this from the shipping angle. I don't remember what all you've seen so here's a list of anime including some of my other favorite couples, you may have already seen a couple: Princess Tutu, Planetes, Nodame Cantabile, Steins;Gate, and Gosick.

Dantalian no Shoka is almost exactly what you're looking for, and it has a certain amount of style, but I didn't really care for it. Its completely episodic, any elements of an overarching plot are ignored because its based on an ongoing LN series, only got 12 episodes, and is unlikely to get a second series, and quite frankly many of its episodic stories are just boring. I watched it as it was airing, decided that post-Trigger Gainax really has no money or talent left, and then filed it as completely forgettable. On the other hand, most episodes you get to hear Daisuke Ono read poetry to you whilst being a badass, so your mileage may vary.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Do Gungrave, Dennou Coil or Zettai Shounen count as stylish?

Noir is pretty much the pure style over substance show. Which is one of the reasons I hate it, but you might like it.

[Wolf_Haley]

Kino's Journey ffits that pretty well.

[hanzo66]

I remember Katanagatari. I watched it when someone said that my drawings remind him of it. Mostly it's the beady eyes, which I like.

Admittedly, I don't really have much of a clear memory of the series. It was interesting, but I wouldn't really say it was anything special.

[Fri]

You guys made me want to watch a lot of things. I've watched Planetes, Nodame Cantabile, and Steins Gate, and now I want to rewatch Planetes and Nodame Cantabile...

I also want to watch Dennou Coil now. Hmm.

I've also watched Kino's Journey and part of Noir. I really should finish watching Noir.

But anyway, the anime I ended up watching was, [c], dantalian no shouka, and Arakawa under the bridge.

When I first heard about C: The Money and Soul of Possibility, I thought it's an 'enterpreneurship is serious business' anime (well, it actually is, but you know), and I was kinda disappointed when learning that it's a series where you fight with anthromorpized assets, but it really grows on me and the premise soon intrigues me. It's digimon tamers meet economic! One of the faction is literally IMF! I've just finished it and definitely not regretting watching it.

Dantalian no Shoka, as expected, is pretty milquetoast. Nothing bad, but nothing that intriguing. I guess I can watch it when I have nothing else to watch and I just want to watch things without thinking. I read Gosick's premise and thought that it apparently a better version of this anime, but eh, I've already got it anyway. But the ed disturb me so much.

Arakawa under the bridge is just a silly shaft anime with hiroshi kamiya as the main protagonist meeting crazy people, authored by Saint Oniisan's author. This is actually the one that the doctor ordered for me. What can I say? I just like Nino, and I like silly shaft anime.

[Kato]

So... Gundam AGE ist finally over...

Aaaaand... it was okay, I guess. It was far from great and there was so much stupidity and I really felt even to my favorite characters I had so little connection... but... ignoring the wasted potential of quite a few characters and scenes and the overall Vagan thing... It was okay. I have seen worse Gundam franchises. The Vagan Mobile Suits looked pretty neat and the simple return of the much more classic newtype abilities as opposed to 00's Innovators...
I'd go into a longer rant on it but I have no idea if anyone's interested.

[Tengu_temp]

I only saw the first three episodes of Gundamage, and while they were pretty good I lost interest due to a combination of being busy and having better shows to watch. And it seems I stopped watching at a good place, because most of what I heard about things happening later is a parade of bad decision, bad characterization, UNDERSTANDING even worse than SEED Destiny or the 00 movie, and what is not terrible is pretty average by Gundam standards.

But then, I hold a strong opinion that the Gundam tv shows are the McDonalds of mecha shows - they are rarely awful, but never better than decent. If you want real quality Gundam, hit the OVAs and manga. Crossbone is really great, and 08th MS Team is almost as good.

[Prime32]

Arc 2 was probably the best, and its protagonist remains cool afterwards. I also liked how Flit became completely consumed by revenge while still being a protagonist.

But overall I thought it was pretty meh. You'd think they would have expanded the ending and played the credits over it, rather than just having the standard ED and a narration of what happened afterwards.

[Soras Teva Gee]

But then, I hold a strong opinion that the Gundam tv shows are the McDonalds of mecha shows - they are rarely awful, but never better than decent. If you want real quality Gundam, hit the OVAs and manga. Crossbone is really great, and 08th MS Team is almost as good.

That's a more recent phenomena I think. I mean we can comment on some of the techical story details but I know that Gundam Wing and G Gundam are still some of the most entertaining shows ever. And Zeta while not *flawless* is as strong as any of the OVAs.

Though the average is higher.

[Kato]

8th MS Team without a doubt is a small master piece in any Mecha genre, and War in a pocket is not to be underestimated either, but as Soras said, G Gundam or Wing were great shows in their own right, so I wouldn't say the main installments are bad per se... Then again I only saw one installment of Macross and very little Real Mecha otherwise (that I would take serious)


@ Prime, I'll agree with Arc 2 being the best, and I wish Zeheart's story wouldn't have ended the way it did... Maybe I liked him too much but it felt like a big waste to me, even if he was a combination of earlier antagonists. (Well, Gundam has been running so long, it's hard not to say so)
I'll disagree on Flit. I think it would have been a great twist to build him up as the Big Bad for the finale. The real finale enemy was quite a let down...
But yeah, both wasting time on the normal opening AND ending in the last episode... They could have used the time for something else... anything, really.
Surprisingly I liked a lot of the support cast more than the protagonist... Not counting Zeheart, Wolf or Seric were great, Grudek was a good character, too bad the Vagan were kind of lacking in that aspect.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm a big fan of G Gundam, and I would not call it awesome. It has a lot of amusing cheese and some genuinely awesome moments, but there's also a lot of boring and badly-drawn filler. TTGL, Getter Robo Armageddon, Big O - all of these are better super robot shows.

Haven't seen Wing or Zeta, but I know people who did and from their opinions I have no desire to watch either anytime soon. Wing has a confusing and badly-told plot with factions constantly appearing out of nowhere, and Zeta is probably the most overrated Gundam show out there, focusing on soap opera drama between a cast of mostly unlikable characters.

Gundam was the McDonalds of mecha shows from the beginning, for which I blame the fact that it's merchandise-driven from the beginning. OVAs and manga don't have to sell plastic models so they can be allowed to take more risks and go outside the safe zone where the tv shows are forced to sit.

[Prime32]

Let's just wait for the SRW adaptation of AGE, which will presumably fix the plotholes and also have Crossbone Gundam.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I wouldn't call Zeta exactly staying in the safe zone entertainment wise. It would probably be a little more likable if it was doing that actually. Also it is worth mentioning that Zeta is why Gundam exists today, not 0079. If you can give it a fair shot you should, probably too late for that now (can't invalidate the theory I understand) but its there.

Now Wing yes you can pick it apart all day, but the point was that while I might call say its pseudo-remake 00 better, Wing never fails to entertain. And that has been the weakness of 00 and AGE, I didn't finish either of them because I got bored.

And that is worse then any more technical story flaws or gaps of logic.

[tensai_oni]

Let's just wait for the SRW adaptation of AGE, which will presumably fix the plotholes and also have Crossbone Gundam.

Spoiler

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Yurin still dies.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Now Wing yes you can pick it apart all day, but the point was that while I might call say its pseudo-remake 00 better, Wing never fails to entertain. And that has been the weakness of 00 and AGE, I didn't finish either of them because I got bored.

I saw Wing way to long ago to have an opinion of it. I must have enjoyed it at the time but looking back on it I have no idea what it was about.

Yet it still somehow makes more sense to me than Eureka 7. Which I'm re-watching for the first time in half a decade and hoping it will make more sense. My memories are basically "someone decided Eva clones didn't have enough cool ships, tagalong kids and blunt anti-war messages/someone decided real robot shows didn't have enough obscure mythological references, mysticism and faceless alien menaces".

00 just suffered from having a really uninspiring first episode and coming after Destiny, which also had a really bad first episode and didn't prove worth it in the end despite it occasionally picking up.

I won't say SEED is my favourite Gundam series since apart from Wing and Destiny its the only one I've seen all the way through, but as a rule Gundam doesn't seem to be able to hold my interest. SEED's only real success is that it manages to use its action sequences to actually carry on with the melodrama and advance the characters is a way that most action stories depressingly fail to do (sadly SEEDs down time character development isn't great). That and it doesn't have as terrible female characters as UC Gundam, but they made Destiny to put that right. and Destiny's women aren't even that bad when they aren't characters from the original series being derailed or copies of UC women.

[Kato]

I'm kind of biased toward Wing because it was my first Gundam. For all it's flaws (and I don't think introducing new factions once in a while really is a flaw) I think it's a really great show with a good cast of characters. I adore the villains. Zechs... okay, Zechs is a Char clone, about as much as he can be without being it literally. But Treize! I don't get why Treize gets so little attention, but I liked how they kind of referenced him with Zeheart.
And with all the love I have for Wing I despise SEED. Not entirely for what it is but for a lot of how people hype it. As if SEED was the first show to have an anti-war message... or the first Gundam. I wish I could punch people over the internet when someone praises the show for that. And then there are Kira and Lacus who I... Okay, not the time to rant.


00... worked good enough for me. Admittedly, between the one character I really cared for (who promptly died) and a second (who also died) I rather liked and a third (who... also died... I'm bad luck for characters, I just realize) the show had little to offer except for good animation an an interesting premise. The final battle had me fanboying over the 0079 reference anyway.

The old shows... 0079 really is mostly something for the fans and I'd dare say even the compilation movies didn't that much to fix this. Zeta on the other hand... When I first saw the Zeta opening I thought: "No way did they do that in the 1980s!" Okay, maybe I was a bit overly impressed but the MS designs looked amazing for the time, the animation was so much better than 0079 and even though, yeah, it is space-opera-y it's a decent plot (if only they had changed a few things about the characters). It could have been better but it's still a good show, in my opinion.

[Terraoblivion]

The problem with Wing isn't that new factions are introduced. It's that they show up without foreshadowing, immediately brushing the previous villains aside and take the spot of primary antagonist until it is their turn to be swept aside. It makes for a rather choppy, poorly paced experience, not to mention that it greatly harms the coherence of the story. It kills any real drive or sense that anything is achieved as the plot pretty much starts over from scratch with a new antagonist faction every now and then.

Also, Zechs' motivations don't make the slightest bit of sense and the logic of most people involved is more than a bit strained. Like Treize who starts a world war to eliminate war or the creators of the Gundams. A big part of Gundam 00 was pointing out just how ridiculously stupid most of the Wing cast was, by casting the people who think they can eliminate war by shooting at it as being in the wrong and realizing so as the conflict develops.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm kind of biased toward Wing because it was my first Gundam. For all it's flaws (and I don't think introducing new factions once in a while really is a flaw) I think it's a really great show with a good cast of characters. I adore the villains. Zechs... okay, Zechs is a Char clone, about as much as he can be without being it literally. But Treize! I don't get why Treize gets so little attention, but I liked how they kind of referenced him with Zeheart.

Wing's characters were terrible. Apart from Treize, who gets cut out of the plot by the two new enemies (yes, there are only really 2, that gets exaggerated a lot doesn't it?) and then comes back just to have an okay death scene that's wasted by reducing it to giving the second most boring Gundam pilot some minor character development (can't remember his name even though I liked his Gundam best).

I don't see how you can hate Lacsus but not mind Relena Peacecraft.

Zechs isn't even a character after the first half of Wing. He just does whatever the writers need him to. His assistant Noien was more interesting and she didn't really do anything.

Heero Yui is just so dull. He only works when Duo is around, Duo being the only actually charismatic protagonist in Wing. Trowa was okay, but is also bland most of the time, just not as much as Heero. Quatre was probably second best after Duo, since despite him being the most pandering to the female fanbase, he was at least close to being a person. Plus he had the coolest support characters who of course he abandoned and never let do anything.

Lady Une was okay as an antagonist and at least had personality (or two), but was just kind of there and made no sense as a military officer. Dorothy made even less sense and was basically just there to be a Relena rival, except she actually did stuff while Relena didn't so Quatre had to steal her to be his rival.

Wing's fights were dull. The only time the Gundams took any damage was when they got wrecked so they could be upgraded and be more unstoppable. Wing Zero Custom is the stupidest real robot design ever, but at least it got horribly damaged in Endless Waltz. Wing Zero basically walked away fine from the final battle in Wing. Compared to Freedom Gundam, which was just as godmode as Wing in a lot of fights, but actually got seriously damaged or stale mated whenever it fought something from the same generation.

And with all the love I have for Wing I despise SEED. Not entirely for what it is but for a lot of how people hype it. As if SEED was the first show to have an anti-war message... or the first Gundam. I wish I could punch people over the internet when someone praises the show for that.

Funny, I've never seen anyone on the Internet who praises SEED.

Wing is way more anti-war than SEED is. The real robot genre is anti-war as standard. SEED isn't anymore anti-war than 0079 or SDF Macross. Wing was basically anti-war/pro-pacifism and nothing else. Except (watching the censored dub-version) Wing doesn't even really go into the bad bits of war that much. The most civilian casualties in Wing isn't even caused by war, just by Wing Zero making people go crazy and blow up colonies for no reason. Wing doesn't even have a war in it, being mostly about revolution and terrorism, while SEED is really only anti-war in that it shows how war kind of sucks (and only really in a generic real-robot genre kind of way). Wing just tells you war is bad and that weapons are bad because they contain brainwashing supercomputers that drive all but the strongest willed insane (while at the same time being really cool and designed to sell toys, which is the major flaw of the real robot genre).

SEED was more of a racism/intolerance story with sci fi trappings than an anti-war story. Its anti-war elements are all very specific in the 'war of racial annihilation' focus, which really doesn't represent most wars that happen (a problem with big sci fi epics is that you're not going to get something like the Opium war, the schlesvig-holstein wars or even the spanish conquests in America, English-Scottish border wars, its all WW2 or American Independence analogues). Destiny was a bit more anti-war with its 'evil arms dealers plot' (kind of borrowed from Wing, though niether series explored it that well) but in the end was more science fiction with its benevolent dictatorship vs freedom theme (which would have made a good series if it hadn't been ruined by FLAWLESS VICTORY). You can't really call Destiny an anti-war story when the war ends and then the clear cut heroes start another one in order to save humanity from enforced peace.

Now part of me wants to write a list of historical wars that need fictional analogues set partly in SPACE!.