Who's Excited For Skyrim?

[ForzaFiori]

Horses are in. They were shown in the Quakecon demo. Horse combat isn't.

There's a good reason why horse combat should be absent, quite apart from the extra animations it requires, it doesn't make sense for half of the weapons you'll be using to be able to hit half of the enemies you'll be fighting from horseback, so rather than cramp the freeform style of character build by basically saying "well if you want to fight from horseback you'll need X or Y", you just get off your horse to fight.

So what if only some weapons can be used from horseback? only some can be used two handed, or with a shield, or at range, or with specific skills. Doesn't mean that you done put them in. It allows for another whole character archetype in the games, as well as better immersion factor, new skills, possible new weapons/items, and all of that adds to more depth AND more sales. Win-win (well, except for the probably overworked programmers)

[DabblerWizard]

So what if only some weapons can be used from horseback? only some can be used two handed, or with a shield, or at range, or with specific skills. Doesn't mean that you done put them in. It allows for another whole character archetype in the games, as well as better immersion factor, new skills, possible new weapons/items, and all of that adds to more depth AND more sales. Win-win (well, except for the probably overworked programmers)

Just a thought.

In Oblivion, other than the rare mounted-guard walking the main roads, the player was one of the few people that rode a horse. This is definitely a kind of imbalance, as at the very least, the player has a speedy way of disengaging from battle that the NPCs lack.

[Cobalt]

The immersion that was broken from having my hands pinned to a horse's lower neck instead of a sword and having to run from every wolf or imp I didn't deem worth dismounting to take care of out-weighed any care I had of balance issues. If it was that much of a problem, then I say there should have been a Horseback Combat Efficiency stat or something that determined whether or not you were absolute crud when fighting on a horse or not (extremely low weapon damage, low attack speed, inaccuracy; things like that as penalties), but instead it was just "Nope." There's no reason for horse combat to be outed in my eyes. With fast travel in Oblivion, the only reason I'd really want to buy a horse is so I can own bandits at 30 miles an hour. I never saw the appeal of a horse when it's useless.

And in Skyrim there are dragons doing tricks in the air and trolls taking two steps to get across a mile-wide field, so the unbalancing factor is lowered significantly. I think I'll hate waiting for a dragon to circle around to grab at me so I can proper shoot at it when, if only horses would let me divert my attention away from the grip on their fur, I could otherwise be chasing it down, or at the least making it a moving battle, and not a moving chase scene.

I want my horse combats.

[GloatingSwine]

The immersion that was broken from having my hands pinned to a horse's lower neck instead of a sword and having to run from every wolf or imp I didn't deem worth dismounting to take care of out-weighed any care I had of balance issues.

Except those wolves and imps are going to be too low down for you to reach from horseback.

Never mind the fact that actually fighting from a horse is completely different from fighting on foot, you can't strike at enemies in front of you, like the entire rest of the Oblivion combat system, because there's a horse in the way, so you have to ride past things and hit them from the side as you pass, then wheel the horse around for another go if they're not dead.

Horseback combat would have to be completely different from combat on foot, it would need a whole new combat engine writing from the ground up and completely reanimating, it would only be usable on humanoid or taller enemies, and then only with certain weapons that you could effectively weild from horseback, and it would only be usable in the very few areas where there is enough room to effectively ride a horse past an enemy then turn it around and come back, which isn't the case in most of an Elder Scrolls game's world.

Add to all that the fact that it would be irritating trying to do it in FPV because of the restricted field of vision compared to real eyes, meaning that you're actually not looking at the thing you're trying to chop unless there's a special auto targetting system designed to turn your head to look at a dude as you pass him to chop him, and if you're looking at him you can't see where you're going.

It is simply not worth doing for the amount of effort, time, and money it would take.

You want to chop mans from on a horse, play Assassin's Creed 2, that has a combat system and world actually designed for it to work.

[Cobalt]

Still want horse combats. Getting it or not, still want it.

[ForzaFiori]

Except those wolves and imps are going to be too low down for you to reach from horseback.

Depends on the weapon, as well as the size of the horse (which varies greatly irl). A shortsword is long enough to hit a man, and a longsword could take a leaping wolf out of the air. Imps are typically flying about head height anyway. Few creatures are ALWAYS so low that the majority of weapons couldn't hit them. (rats. maybe.)

Never mind the fact that actually fighting from a horse is completely different from fighting on foot, you can't strike at enemies in front of you, like the entire rest of the Oblivion combat system, because there's a horse in the way, so you have to ride past things and hit them from the side as you pass, then wheel the horse around for another go if they're not dead.

Horseback combat would have to be completely different from combat on foot, it would need a whole new combat engine writing from the ground up and completely reanimating, it would only be usable on humanoid or taller enemies, and then only with certain weapons that you could effectively weild from horseback, and it would only be usable in the very few areas where there is enough room to effectively ride a horse past an enemy then turn it around and come back, which isn't the case in most of an Elder Scrolls game's world.

It IS possible to stop a horse and attack to the sides, without having to wheel around. It just is more likely your horse will die, but that's what horse armor is for. As to what enemies it could be used on, it would depend on the length of your weapon, which is something the game already takes into consideration.

Add to all that the fact that it would be irritating trying to do it in FPV because of the restricted field of vision compared to real eyes, meaning that you're actually not looking at the thing you're trying to chop unless there's a special auto targetting system designed to turn your head to look at a dude as you pass him to chop him, and if you're looking at him you can't see where you're going.

You can look to the side while on a horse. Simply look towards what you are attacking (something that you should probably do anyway). The graphics would show an attack, probably a slash downward. It's also possible to attack on both sides of a horse, though it requires a different movement (you could stab far enough down on your shield side to hit most things, for instance, but maybe not slash). Again, something that they've done in the past (the three attack types in Morrowin), so nothing new) For archery, it's even simpler. You would need to tilt the bow possibly, but they already do this for sneak attacks. Then adjust for height while it flies, but you could treat it like your on a building as tall as a horse. (Well, half a horse, since your not standing on the horses back.)

It is simply not worth doing for the amount of effort, time, and money it would take.

You want to chop mans from on a horse, play Assassin's Creed 2, that has a combat system and world actually designed for it to work.

Clearly, if someone has done it in a fairly successful franchise, it has proven that it IS worth doing.

Responses in bold

[Eldan]

Or Mount & Blade. It's in the name.

[GloatingSwine]

Responses in bold

That makes it annoying to quote you...

Depends on the weapon, as well as the size of the horse (which varies greatly irl). A shortsword is long enough to hit a man, and a longsword could take a leaping wolf out of the air. Imps are typically flying about head height anyway. Few creatures are ALWAYS so low that the majority of weapons couldn't hit them. (rats. maybe.)

Yes, that weapon dependence is rather the problem. If your character is focused on a different type of weapon, either for skill reasons (two handed weapons would be ineffective due to the fact that you can't use both hands effectively to swing to the side, or if you've focused on dagger perks), or for roleplay reasons, you're creating a system which is already of limited utility and then restricting it even further.

The graphics would show an attack, probably a slash downward.

Modern skeletal animations don't work like that. You don't just play the "chop man" graphic with the camera pointing in a different direction, you have to create a completely new animation for every angle of attack. If you're including horse combat you have to create a completely different set of animations which take into account the restriction on skeletal movement that comes from sitting on the horse. That's why Elder Scrolls games have historically looked utterly terribad in third person, because they have only had a very few animations. (Third person looks less terribad now, but I haven't seen any combat in it except for flashy finishing moves.)

Now, some of the problems could be averted if you're locked to third person for horse riding (which may be the case, all the horse riding footage I remember from the Quakecon demo was third person), as you can then see the dude you're chopping and where you're going at the same time (in real life this is less of an issue because we have a much wider field of vision than in an FPS game, as well as other mechanisms which tell us what's happening, and a real horse is somewhat capable of directing itself without us pushing the forward key all the time), but then you're back to Elder Scrolls being terribad at third person to begin with, even before adding equine complications.

Clearly, if someone has done it in a fairly successful franchise, it has proven that it IS worth doing.

Protip: Asscreed has a completely different type of gameworld where large swathes of it is suitable for riding a horse, and still the best use of a horse in combat is a platform to leap from for a flying hidden blade kill.

[Cobalt]

I'd certainly hope some/most weapons couldn't be used on horseback. The very thought of a dagger-armed cavalry man, ridiculous. Sabers and spears, the weapons of men. Men who ride horses. And fight on them, top speed.

And I would die to see a flying hidden blade kill in the Elder Scrolls.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Morrowind-style guards are in, not oblivion style.

Remember when the Imperial soldiers looked like this?

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That shield, the armour, the helmet, all was the very image of Imperial Authority!
And then, 5 years later, in-game, the Imperial Legion all changed to...

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... generic plate armour. Wut.
At least the helmet was still vaguely the same shape. But, it didn't look Roman. It was just generic medieval.
Now, however...

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Look at that man.

Look at him.
And bask in his glory.

Now, he might not be the Imperial Legion, on account of the whole civil war thing. But nevertheless.

[Daze]

Look at that man.

Look at him.
And bask in his glory.

Now, he might not be the Imperial Legion, on account of the whole civil war thing. But nevertheless.

The dude with the dog? That's imperial legion or I'll eat my Yankees hat!

Awesome

And regarding horse combat... if it breaks their engine, then I don't care enough to want it. Nor do I want a 6 month delay to implement it.

I'd think it'd be easier to add "horse trampling" anyway. It'd be nice to just run some people/creatures down once in a while.

[Ogremindes]

I would like the Cyrodiil to draw more from the design of the Blades in Oblivion, a well done fusion of Roman and Japanese (Akaviri) influences.

[Eldan]

Well, I certainly hope they are going back to "Roman Empire" instead of "Medievalania". The Empire has always been Roman-ish before, and it should stay that way. More than just the names.

[Somebloke]

So I heard somewhere you can actually get married, get settled down etc. as per Fable.

Hopefully, unlike Fable there will at least be a number of love interests that are distinguishable from one another.

(Even if it was amusing to walk into a new town and have over half the population suddenly drop to their knees and propose to you)

[Eldan]

Well, you are dragonborn. Though there's no information about how successful Tiber was with the ladies

[Arcanoi]

Though there's no information about how successful Tiber was with the ladies

Hint: Yes.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oh baby, everyone's gonna want to check out MY "Pleasure Dragon".

[Xanmyral]

Don't worry, I'm sure there is a shout for that.

[DabblerWizard]

Pleasure dragons... relationships... children. Skyrim is turning into a fantasy opera.

[Xanmyral]

Honestly, as long as there isn't another Martin Septim, I'll be happy. The dude himself didn't annoy me, but the fact that it shunts the player and forces him to watch the action instead of doing anything was a bad move in my opinion.

[Daze]

Honestly, as long as there isn't another Martin Septim, I'll be happy. The dude himself didn't annoy me, but the fact that it shunts the player and forces him to watch the action instead of doing anything was a bad move in my opinion.

I agree...
You should be the awesome hero who saves everything. I woulda been happy in Oblivion if

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I turned into the dragon at games end

You felt kinda 2nd rate at the end, despite being master of every guild. Heh.

[GoblinArchmage]

Saw someone ask about Mark/Recall. I've read in one interview or another (maybe a video) that one of the Dragon Shouts will let you teleport, properly, not just fast travel. So there's that.

Excellent. That's even better than Mark/Recall.

Honestly, as long as there isn't another Martin Septim, I'll be happy. The dude himself didn't annoy me, but the fact that it shunts the player and forces him to watch the action instead of doing anything was a bad move in my opinion.

I agree...
You should be the awesome hero who saves everything. I woulda been happy in Oblivion if

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I turned into the dragon at games end

You felt kinda 2nd rate at the end, despite being master of every guild. Heh.

I agree completely. Martin was almost like a particularly bad example of a DMPC. The character wasn't bad, but his importance relative to that of the player's character's was. At the end of the main quest

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Martin ends up being the hero who everyone will remember, while you get an honorary title and your choice of either light or heavy armor. Due to the fact that, like in D&D, armor decreases spell effectiveness, this reward was particularly crappy for Mages.

[DabblerWizard]

Some amount of early-game railroading seems likely for Skyrim. One interview suggested that the player not only starts off in prison, but is about to be executed.

Railroading, of the early-game Oblivion sort, seems like short changed programming. That is: "we won't bother with coding for the scenario where the King isn't killed by an assassin, so he HAS to die"

[GloatingSwine]

I found the Oblivion railroading less onerous than the version in Fallout New Vegas, where you can potter off in any direction you please, but unless you follow the exact path the designers laid out for you at least for the first 4-5 hours it's basically "Oh, sorry Mr. Deathclaw, I appear to have walked into your fist. I do hope I didn't scuff it any."

The only thing Oblivion did wrong was to root the player to the spot whilst the faux cutscene took place, if the player had somehow been thrown out of the room where the emperor was, and had to watch him be shivved from the other side of the now blocked gate (have some rubble fall or something), it wouldn't have been nearly as daft.

[Xanmyral]

I imagine the game begins with you in a dark cell, getting dragged out into the bright light with a blinding effect a la Fallout Three first exiting the vault. Then they start reading off what you did wrong, or something like that, and that is where you choose your name. Dragon attacks and disruption happens, then you have to help the people who tried to kill you. After the fighting someone discovers your a dragonborn, probably by absorbing the dragon's powers by accident. You get some lecture about your powers and how it's your "duty" to fight the dragons or something, you choose your class and then your off.

That's my guess at the beginning.

[DabblerWizard]

I imagine the game begins with you in a dark cell, getting dragged out into the bright light with a blinding effect a la Fallout Three first exiting the vault. Then they start reading off what you did wrong, or something like that, and that is where you choose your name. Dragon attacks and disruption happens, then you have to help the people who tried to kill you. After the fighting someone discovers your a dragonborn, probably by absorbing the dragon's powers by accident. You get some lecture about your powers and how it's your "duty" to fight the dragons or something, you choose your class and then your off.

That's my guess at the beginning.

That's a good guess, excluding the part where you pick a class. Skyrim doesn't have those.

[Xanmyral]

Oh yeah, almost forgot. The drag to the execution post will probably be long and filled with much Scenery Porn with all the talk about the updated graphics they have been doing.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oh yeah, almost forgot. The drag to the execution post will probably be long and filled with much Scenery Porn with all the talk about the updated graphics they have been doing.

I wouldn't mind. I love that stuff. Been wandering around Morrowind with the MSGO mod running, now that I have my computer upgraded, and I am so happy with the pretty scenery! If they make the scenery pretty enough, I shall be more than happy to just sit back and look at the pretty.
Without having to kill a cliffracer every few seconds.

[DabblerWizard]

The Dark Brotherhood was visually confirmed at the gamescom conference in Germany, when they showed a "mysterious message" that you can get from them: Atop the page, an inky black hand, and underneath, the words 'we know'.

[The Succubus]

The thing that annoyed me about Oblivion was the wretched skilling up system. I worked on my magic skills, went to the first tower and found everything could one-shot me while still being fairly resistant to whatever I threw at them.

Please, let me *BALANCE* the way I level up, rather than repeating obscure stuff ad nausem just to get a couple of hit points.