General WoD Discussion #1: Assemble

[Yuki Akuma]

Not the first time it's happened to him, mind. See his desire to play a prommie in Kojiro's game.

I'm starting to notice it, yes.

I really don't think your Retainer is supposed to have any supernatural abilities - other supernaturals have special merits that let them have supernatural retainers, so why would the Retainer merit let you?

Kojiro: Metaptropi 1 can probably change sound. Probably.

[Dingle]

you could probably get a ghoul retainer fairly easily.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

you could probably get a ghoul retainer fairly easily.

I'm obligated to point out that he's an Immortal, not a vampire. Not strictly impossible, per se, but not likely. And I have no idea how a rogue ghoul would relate to the Retainer merit.

[Tokuhara]

I'm obligated to point out that he's an Immortal, not a vampire. Not strictly impossible, per se, but not likely. And I have no idea how a rogue ghoul would relate to the Retainer merit.

The only reason I want another Immortal to be my Battle Butler is so it makes sense. Why would a snobby rich kid want a new butler when he gets old when having an Immortal would make his life so much easier?

[ToySoldierCPlus]

The only reason I want another Immortal to be my Battle Butler is so it makes sense. Why would a snobby rich kid want a new butler when he gets old when having an Immortal would make his life so much easier?

I never said having another immortal as a butler didn't make sense. I implied that having a ghoul as retainer doesn't make much sense. That said, with the immortal, it's not a question of thematic appropriateness, but rather a question of balance. Having an immortal as your retainer would basically let you have two characters. Not as bad as a Major Template, because of the relative power of the Immortals, but still. It'd probably be a 4 or 5 dot merit, as The Glyphstone said. For this one, you'd need to ask Croverus what he thinks about the idea.

I like the flavor, personally, very Black Butler-esque, it's just the crunch I'm concerned about.

[Tokuhara]

I never said having another immortal as a butler didn't make sense. I implied that having a ghoul as retainer doesn't make much sense. That said, with the immortal, it's not a question of thematic appropriateness, but rather a question of balance. Having an immortal as your retainer would basically let you have two characters. Not as bad as a Major Template, because of the relative power of the Immortals, but still. It'd probably be a 4 or 5 dot merit, as The Glyphstone said. For this one, you'd need to ask Croverus what he thinks about the idea.

I like the flavor, personally, very Black Butler-esque, it's just the crunch I'm concerned about.

Ok. What would be a good idea for a decently not OP butler?

[Yuki Akuma]

Ok. What would be a good idea for a decently not OP butler?

A mortal human.

[Tokuhara]

A mortal human.

Aware of the "mere" mortal, I meant in comparison to Leon McBride (Mental & Social aptitude), how would "Jeeves" probably be set up. He's probably going to be a cross between Valkenhayn and Alfred, but without the Werewolf

[Selrahc]

A competent Butler is a three dot retainer.

A butler capable of playing Jeeves is a 4 dot retainer.

An immortal battle butler? 5 dots.

[Yuki Akuma]

I really think you should ask Croverus about this, considering he's the ST and all.

[Tokuhara]

A competent Butler is a three dot retainer.

A butler capable of playing Jeeves is a 4 dot retainer.

An immortal battle butler? 5 dots.

I'll stick with the 3 dot. Need to make sacrifices, right?

So far: Resources **** or ******, Retainer (Carlo de Leon) ***, Striking Looks **, Chi *** (Part of this, specifically 2 dots of Retainer paid with the 40 XP budget).

Good question: Is Fighting Style: Social Maneuvers (CtL:NH:GF pg. 63) worth spending points in?

[Wings of Peace]

Five dot retainer:

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[The Glyphstone]

Away with ye, accursed bandwidth thief. What is it supposed to show?

[Wings of Peace]

Away with ye, accursed bandwidth thief. What is it supposed to show?

It's a visual representation of Selrahc's immortal battle butler in the form of Combat Butler Hayate (on one of his more serious days).

[Sydonai]

You probably want something like "The Butler family", from the Artemis Fowl books. A five-dot Retainer, a one-dot Retainer(child of the previous Retainer), and one or two dots in Allies(Family of Servants).

[The Glyphstone]

You know, that might be the right solution, actually. Rather than go through hoops to get a butler who lives forever like you do, have a contract with an entire family line who are in on your secret and provide a manservant each generation to continue serving you.

[Fouredged Sword]

You could then also have allies (family of XXXXX) to represent their loyalty to you.

[Tokuhara]

You could then also have allies (family of XXXXX) to represent their loyalty to you.

I spent my XP budget, but maybe I could cut 3 specialties and get Allies ** (de Leon Family)

[Sith_Happens]

You probably want something like "The Butler family", from the Artemis Fowl books. A five-dot Retainer, a one-dot Retainer(child of the previous Retainer), and one or two dots in Allies(Family of Servants).

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[Sydonai]

Looks at first ever seal of approval, "Yay"!

[Sith_Happens]

So, the ST of the Changeling campaign/chronicle I'm in let slip that other splats may or may not make an appearance at some point. Which explains the look on her face when I made a joke a few weeks ago about how bad/hilarious of an idea it would be to put a vampire antagonist up against a motley with a Fireheart (me).

[Yuki Akuma]

I still prefer the sun lasers for the "that vampire is screwed" joke.

[Selrahc]

So, the ST of the Changeling campaign/chronicle I'm in let slip that other splats may or may not make an appearance at some point. Which explains the look on her face when I made a joke a few weeks ago about how bad/hilarious of an idea it would be to put a vampire antagonist up against a motley with a Fireheart (me)

And thereby ensured that the vampire mind controls/disables you first?

[Sith_Happens]

Sadly, it's kind of a moot point now: Two of the other players, including the one whose books we've been using, have now expressed disinterest in continuing with the campaign, so I'm assuming the whole thing's pretty much cancelled now.

I still prefer the sun lasers for the "that vampire is screwed" joke.

Sun lasers? You mean that one Summer contract or something else?

[One Tin Soldier]

I was once involved in a Hunter campaign with a Pokemon trainer. (Yes. I know. It was weird like that.) Flamethrower and Solar Beam were awesome.
This discussion just reminded me of that.
EDIT: To make this post actually contribute to the conversation... What is the strangest WoD hack you guys have encountered?

[The Glyphstone]

The only hack I've ever seen is Dudes Of Legend, and that's weird enough to last me for a long, long time.

[Sipex]

Hey, I've been invited to a Mage: The Awakening game as my introduction to WoD. Before this, I've been most familiar with D&D 4e and 3.5.

We've started making my character a bit, I've got a physically capable mage who is a Moros caster and we've bought my Gnosis up to 2.

All of my stats are in the 2/3 range since I'm new my GM said it would probably be best to make a well rounded character.

Anyone have any tips/recommendations for this newbie?

[Selrahc]

Anyone have any tips/recommendations for this newbie?

Gnosis 2 is a good idea on almost any starting mage build. If you're not doing anything with the other merit dots, consider Gnosis 3. Spending 6 of your 7 starting merit dots doesn't leave you with much to play around with though and merits can be a good way of fleshing out a character. Gnosis 2 should be sufficient.

For mages it is almost always a good idea to buy a third dot of one of your two path favoured mana. Getting to third level spells is a big power hike above second level, both due to having more powerful effects and due to a slightly increased dice pool.

Remember improvised magic and creative thaumaturgy. Be inventive in their use.

Either take cheap rotes for your out of path magic to reduce mana costs, or take rotes for your big showy vulgar three dot spells to reduce paradox. If a spell is in path and covert there is no real reason to take it as a rote, so don't be suckered into taking rotes for Mage Armour or Mage Sight.

Spells can be cast in advance with ritual extended duration factors. Have a few long term buff spells up, but remember spell tolerance. Having more spells active on you than your stamina reduces dice pools. Casting more spells than your gnosis+3 is similarly not good. So when choosing buffs, leave yourself some leeway to receive and cast spells during the game.

Moros specifically: Death is one of my least favourite spell spheres. You can do some neat things with it though, as with all spell spheres. Death gives you some decent minions, lets you get info from the dead and mess around with twilight. Matter is beastly, and by far my favourite of the two. Enhancing items and other passive covert effects, and then letting lose with some of the scariest vulgar magic in the game, turning air into chlorine gas, walking through walls, forming sheets of titanium in front of you... lots of possibilities. I'd take Matter 3, Death 1 and take some other mana at 2.

For your third mana choice, you generally want to pick some cool tricks to rote because out of path improvised magic gets costly fast. Mind and Fate have some good covert buffs and information gathering. Life gives you fast healing and an array of buffs as well as animal minions. Spirit and Space are utility, letting you interact with sympathetic connections or the shadow realm. Prime gives you more sustainability by making mana gathering easier. Forces and Time can probably be skipped, I'd say they are Arcana that give more reward for focus but won't vastly increase your capabilities, although as always there are some neat tricks(Reading radio waves, bending light, future sense, etc.).

If you're a physically oriented character, consider how you are going to be doing damage. If you're a Matter Moros then you can enhance items to a scary degree, which would mean a focus in Firearms or Melee weapons would be useful. Mages have a lot of armour, so can often get away with putting themselves in situations that would splatter a mortal. Don't get cocky though. NWoD is a pretty brutal system.

Be useful outside of combat. Take a few skills that will allow you to contribute in most situations. Occult and Stealth are never going to be a bad thing to have. I've found a lot of otherwise social characters tend to ignore skills like streetwise and animal ken, so consider picking them up just so your group has a more diverse skillset.

This is just general advise though. If you've got a character concept in mind, stick to it. If you're more used to DnD, characters are a *lot* less combat focussed. It's a more social/mystery solving game, and imbalances in party strength don't really matter terribly.

[Eisenfavl]

Hey, I've been invited to a Mage: The Awakening game as my introduction to WoD. Before this, I've been most familiar with D&D 4e and 3.5.

We've started making my character a bit, I've got a physically capable mage who is a Moros caster and we've bought my Gnosis up to 2.

All of my stats are in the 2/3 range since I'm new my GM said it would probably be best to make a well rounded character.

Anyone have any tips/recommendations for this newbie?

So your a mage.
You know, the god wizards, from d&d 3.5 with their hathran dips and incantatrix abuse and such? You get that built right in.

Gnosis 3 is essentially a necessity, because the 1 hour vs 6 hours let's you reliably make permanent enhancements in under a day.

Use permanent transmute earth to make high quality steel (the book says you can) or copper if the storyteller allows you. Sell it, acquire money.

Slap all sorts of ridiculous crap onto everything with jury rig. What's that? My pistol shoots as far as an anti-material rifle, shoots like a minigun, sprays 500 shots like a shotgun and fires grenades which explode and spray shrapnel, the shrapnel being rockets which coat things in burning thermite?
Why yes it does.

You'll want high stamina, so you can have multiple shields on you. Which you will need, because you need a fairly high amount of armour from friends stacking their best shield on and with yours to prevent all damage from the VX gas and francium bombs which you can spontaneously make at matter 4.

[Fouredged Sword]

Note, a rifle has damage 5. Matter lets you turn that to damage 10 with enchanting. Combat style sniper let's you deal that as auto damage to a target.