Results 151 to 180 of 281
-
2011-08-03, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
They had a truce at the time, and had just worked together to fight monsters.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0220.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html
V and Kubota:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0596.htmlLast edited by hamishspence; 2011-08-03 at 03:09 PM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Spoiler: This signature is a historical relic from a long-ago time of regular forum activity.Aww man! Even all the witty self referencing sigs are gone now!
Excellent Avatar by CheesePirate, Awesome banners by Pink Haired August
Spoiler
-
2011-08-03, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Posted from Blackberry
She did not feel obligated to protect the Azurites. She had set herself the task of winning the battle all by herself using her magic. She was traumatized by that memory because that Azurite soldier explicitly called her out on not being able to win the battle with her magic. She felt like a failure bacause, strictly speaking, she was: she had failed at her self-appointed task of winning the battle with her magic. She did not feel like a failure because she failed to protect the Azurites. That was purely incidental to what she felt was her real failure.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2011-08-03 at 03:20 PM.
-
2011-08-03, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Ok, now I remember. But again, that was after she had not tranced for months, and not necessarily evil, just another of her chaotic streaks, since he was obviously evil.
As for Miko, it was also like with Belkar, just a prank, as she said, he has d10 HD, so she was not in danger.
-
2011-08-03, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
"pranks" involving 6d6 of lethal force damage, are a bit sadistic.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm
There's also this scene:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.htmlLast edited by hamishspence; 2011-08-03 at 03:30 PM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
He was not obviously evil to V. V admits the only reason she killed him was because she knew he was a significant figure of some kind and that he was going to have to go to trial for something. As far as V knew, he was the head conspirator for a group commiting tax fraud.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
That may be true, but not necessarily evil. Also, remember that when Miko cast detect Evil, she registered as Not Evil Even the best of people have the occasional sadistic streak. She does have evil streaks, but she as good that neutralizes it.
-
2011-08-03, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2011-08-03, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
"Good" implies "Makes personal sacrifices to help strangers".
So far, it's hard to think of a single personal sacrifice for a stranger that V has made.
Balancing good acts and intentions with evil acts to be Neutral aligned is a possibility- but we don't see Good acts by V to suggest that V is of this balance.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Yeah, and my example of compassion and guilt was only to show that V has redeemable qualities. Even an average, (neutral,) person would typically feel bad if they witnessed a bunch of good people get slaughtered and they felt as if they should have been able to stop it.
You can justify Vs killing of black dragons as an act that, in the end, helped the world despite parts of it being evil but that is not the reason V did it at all. She was on a bloodthirsty power trip and enjoyed torturing the Black Dragon. IF V had killed the dragons with moral justification in mind, not only would she have most likely have given half a second to contemplate if it is wrong or right, she would have tried to kill all black dragons best she could. One could argue Familicide isn't that powerful, but I think the intention was clear.
V also said, "This, and nothing less, is the price you pay for threatening my family." I have no reason to believe that she would not have commited familicide to a goblin if said goblin had threatened her family/humiliated her so much.Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Come to think of it, just such an offhand murder of a captured foe with no prior knowledge is enough to suggest evil tendencies before the soul spice. V is neutral evil, if not quite so obviously a bastard as Belkar. I would guess that the elf was TN until (after?) the battle for Azure city, but the failure there and subsequent inability to get a message to Haley shifted its alignment to evil as focus drifted off aiding the party and more to proving and increasing one's own power.
Last edited by Icedaemon; 2011-08-03 at 04:05 PM.
Brewing a new setting (3.5 ed D&D). The setting is complete and ready to play.
Indeed, here is the recruitment thread for the first run.
The above post was probably snide, snippy, tongue in cheek and/or opinionated. Consult your sense of humour before vexation. If still vexed, attempt to cease giving a damn. Thank you for reading this public service bulletin.
-
2011-08-03, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Sounds about right. V seems somewhat Neutral rather than Good in Origin of PCs- and combined with the Arrogant Neutral alignment in the OoTS tabletop game,
I'd say that despite saying "Overwhelmed by pure Evil" in strip 11, V is not in fact sickened- but is suffering the effects a Neutral character would.
While "lack of sleep" might be a mitigating factor, I'd say V is very close to the Neutral/Evil borderline by the time of Kubota's death.
Whether V is over it or not is a bit harder to define- a valid case could be made for either side of the line.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
I'm not sure this is entirely correct. Being haunted by a recurring nightmare like that seems indicative of guilt, not just of personal failure. That is to say, I think the two are connected--Vaarsuvius felt guilty about not being able to save them, which was part of the impetus for his growing obsession with becoming more powerful, as well as what I take to be an actual fear of going to sleep (or trance), not really thinking it was "inefficient" like he tells himself.
I think going back to help O-Chul instead of running away could count.
Trying (unsuccessfully) to disavow the potion merchants of their ill-conceived grasp of economics is a possible smaller-scale example, too.HUMANS....... ARE....... SUPERIORRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But she was naked! And all... articulate!!
-
2011-08-03, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Actually, V did turn invisible and try and run away, leaving O-Chul behind. She only helped O-Chul when it turned out she was locked in the room. Going down fighting as opposed to dying right out isn't good or evil.
At the very least, there is a good chance that Roy's gods believe V is evil. Right before Roy was rezzed, a deva or something urgently tried to tell him that one of his party members took a drastic turn towards evil. This wouldn't have happened if she meant, 'One of your allies is in morally questionable territory!' as V has always been there. According to the celestial beings, I think that means V turned evil.
Being evil doesn't mean you don't care about your responsibilities, don't feel compassion/human emotion, or don't have deep, personal relationships. Evil is rarely so stereotypical.Last edited by SowZ; 2011-08-03 at 04:39 PM.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
True- that's one example way back before lack of sleep was a factor.
V does eventually yield to the temptation to exploit their stupidity after resisting it for a while.
It was closed- but was it locked?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.htmlLast edited by hamishspence; 2011-08-03 at 04:39 PM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Virginia
- Gender
-
2011-08-03, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Last edited by SowZ; 2011-08-03 at 04:41 PM.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Actually, Holy Knight's right. She went invisible and went to climb down the tower, but heard Xykon talking about upgrading O-Chul to "prisoner first class". She then turned around, fed him a few healing potions, and attempted to exit through the - now-closed - door. She then beelined for the hole in the tower she had tried to climb out in the first place, but was intercepted by Xykon.
EDIT: ninja'dLast edited by zimmerwald1915; 2011-08-03 at 04:42 PM.
-
2011-08-03, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Last edited by Holy_Knight; 2011-08-03 at 04:42 PM.
HUMANS....... ARE....... SUPERIORRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But she was naked! And all... articulate!!
-
2011-08-03, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Hmm. Reading it again, and yeah, V was running away and leaving O-Chul to his fate initially. But she did change her mind willingly. Yeah, that is a good action.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
One could argue that this was more an attempt to correct a stupid thing done by people V considers if not exactly peers, at least sort of falling under the same stereotypes as it and therefore more about self-esteem than charity.
Granted, this is a flimsy explanation. Regardless, a few nice deeds do not outweigh one war-crime level evil act, never mind the other at best questionable deeds.Last edited by Icedaemon; 2011-08-03 at 05:19 PM.
Brewing a new setting (3.5 ed D&D). The setting is complete and ready to play.
Indeed, here is the recruitment thread for the first run.
The above post was probably snide, snippy, tongue in cheek and/or opinionated. Consult your sense of humour before vexation. If still vexed, attempt to cease giving a damn. Thank you for reading this public service bulletin.
-
2011-08-03, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
I wonder what V's chart would look like compared to Belkar's, as seen in Roy's afterlife evaluation?
Probably a small downturn in Evilness from the rescue of O'chul onward, but I'm not sure how much.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2011-08-03, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html
The, "don't remind me of all I have done," does not seem to be saying, "I acted ineffectually, so don't talk about it." But an admission of guilt.Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
I don't think so. "Turn toward" means just that - start heading in the direction of. It says nothing about how far she went.
Is one large evil act enough to change your alignment permanently? Some people obviously think so. I don't. There were a lot of extenuating circumstances at the time, and anyway, alignment is about what you do normally or habitually, not what you did one time.
As for all those Explosive Runes - 6d6 damage is hardly dangerous to people like Miko and Belkar. In a world where hit points are the sole measure of damage - there's no such thing as "lasting injury" - it's really no more than a smack. V has come to the (not unreasonable) conclusion that it's the most effective way of getting through to them."None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
-
2011-08-03, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
It wasn't just one large evil act. She slaughtered babies, centaurs, hundreds if not thousands of sentient creatures including people without a second thought with no moral justification other then, 'I want to make sure no one else comes at me for revenge,' even though it is clearly because, (and she says in her head it is because,) she enjoys torturing her enemies with the worst torture she could think of.
Again, I propose that we have no reason to believe she wouldn't have done the same to a goblin.
If Haley decided that she didn't want the thieves guild on her back and so blew up the entire city of Greysky then laughed at how funny it was, went back to the ruins, found the tattered remains of her rival there, revived her, then slowly chopped all of her limbs off for fum, would you make this argument?Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-03, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2011-08-03, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
I was actually going to ask a pretty similar question: let's say it was Crystal threatening V's family, and V did Familicide on Crystal. Would you merely consider it equally wrong? I'd consider it a LOT more wrong!
The Familicide that V did caused nothing but [quote paladin]just and necessary destruction[/quote paladin], and it dealt a blow to the forces of Evil that was important enough to get Tiamat really pissed at the IFCC. Overall, that action definitely DID help alter the Good/Evil balance towards Good.
I know we have Word of God saying Familicide on Evil dragons is still wrong, and I'm not arguing against that, but really, you gotta admit that was pretty much the Good-est use of Familicide you can think of (I agree that any use is clearly at least somewhat Evil).Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2011-08-03, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
What if one of those half-dragons had been a mighty Paladin on an important quest? Speculation sure, but the point is that V didn't care whether or not that might have been a possibility. Further, I would argue that some acts are charted differently on the alignment scale based on why they were done. Killing someone because it's convenient is Evil, but killing that exact individual if you have no other options is not. Killing all black dragons would be Good if they were all a Clear and Present danger. Killing them all to get revenge on a particular dragon is Evil.
-
2011-08-03, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2011-08-03, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?
Agreed... but then, many of those dragons were Evil.
The probability that the sum of the Good the half-dragons "on important quests" would possibly have made in the future could've beat the sum of the Evil the black dragons would've done in the future is essentially nil.
(Just arguing for the sake of it, because the gist of your argument, quoted below, I can totally agree with.)
FWIW, I take it you agreed that Familicide on a Human family (statistically including plenty of Good and Neutral individuals) would still be a lot worse than when done on a family of Always Evil Monsters...? That's just how the D&D Good/Evil system works...
I would tend to think Familicide on humans would immediately shift anyone's alignment to "Evil", while on black dragons, it probably did not (in V's case).
Originally Posted by VanBurenOffer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.