Elan Break Enchantment?

[willpell]

I just read the rules on bards and noticed that bardic music can be used at 12th level to produce a Break Enchantment effect, which is specifically the spell he and V are hoping Durkon will use to un-stone Haley. There are a lot of reasons why this might not have been done: Enan isn't 12th level or doesn't have the required 15 ranks in perform, the nonexistent GM of the OOTS's nonexistent campaign might have ruled against this use of the power, or maybe Elan just doesn't have the 1 minute to spare for this use of the music. But I wonder if anyone else has pointed this out.

[Mutant Sheep]

Has been brought up in every thread since Haley was turned to stone.

Elan already *is* high enough level to know Break Enchantment--he cast Mass Cure Light Wounds in strip #647, and that's a 5th level Bard spell; Break Enchantment is only 4th. However, Bards have a severely limited number of spells they can know at any one time, and the odds are good that Elan has simply never learned that spell!

Facto is a great source for facts and opinions.

Wait, if Elan had to go all the way to the palace to get to Durkon, why in the nine hells didn't he just use his bardic music to unpetrify her? Song of Freedom emulates Break Enchantment (which is what Vaarsuvius said Durkon would use), and he gets it before he gets fifth level spell slots (which he has). It takes 1 minute of uninterrupted playing to use, but Elan could of done that easily once he was out of Zz'ditri's and Yukyuk's area.

[Chronos]

I've been saying this for a while, too. I think the simplest explanation is that Elan, the Giant, or both, forgot about that power.

[Tebryn]

Or Dashing Swordsman could not increase Bardic Music and he actually isn't a high enough level to use it.

[Morquard]

Or Dashing Swordsman could not increase Bardic Music and he actually isn't a high enough level to use it.

Unlikely. Elan specifically took bard levels to get new spells, so that indicates Dashing Swordman doesn't do that.
Mass Cure Light Wounds is a 5th level spell, whihc bards get access to at 13th level.
Song of Freedom he would get at 12th level.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think the answer may be as simple as "Elan isn't currently carrying his lute." Either that, or the Giant forgot Bards got that ability.

[factotum]

I think the answer may be as simple as "Elan isn't currently carrying his lute." Either that, or the Giant forgot Bards got that ability.

Or he's *ignoring* the fact Elan has that ability for the sake of plot. If you want an in-world explanation, this is *Elan* we're talking about--he probably doesn't know that Song of Freedom would be able to restore Haley to flesh again, or that Break Enchantment would do the job, for that matter!

[KillianHawkeye]

he probably doesn't know that Song of Freedom would be able to restore Haley to flesh again, or that Break Enchantment would do the job, for that matter!

V told him it would. That's why he's looking for Durkon.

I suppose another explanation is that V didn't know about that ability, so he sent Elan to find Durkon. And Elan is so concerned over Haley that he just goes along with it without realizing it may not be needed. But don't forget that Elan is also looking for Durkon to warn him about the Linear Guild.

[Tebryn]

Unlikely. Elan specifically took bard levels to get new spells, so that indicates Dashing Swordman doesn't do that.
Mass Cure Light Wounds is a 5th level spell, whihc bards get access to at 13th level.
Song of Freedom he would get at 12th level.

What? No it doesn't. Bardic Music is a separate ability to spell casting. Dashing Swordsman might advance or partially advance spell casting while not advancing the bardic music ability.

[Prowl]

Has Elan actually deployed his bardic music in a substantially useful way once in the entire length of the comic? Besides the standard singing-for-combat-bonuses trick, I mean.

[KillianHawkeye]

Dashing Swordsman might advance or partially advance spell casting while not advancing the bardic music ability.

DS doesn't seem like a very caster oriented (or Bard oriented) class, but I guess only the Giant can tell us for sure.

[ORione]

V told him it would. That's why he's looking for Durkon.

I suppose another explanation is that V didn't know about that ability, so he sent Elan to find Durkon. And Elan is so concerned over Haley that he just goes along with it without realizing it may not be needed. But don't forget that Elan is also looking for Durkon to warn him about the Linear Guild.

Another possibility is that V did remember that, but didn't tell Elan because V wanted Elan to find Durkon. That would also explain how V was able to counterspell Zz'dtri's Break Enchantment when V told Elan he couldn't unpetrify Haley.

[Iferus]

Song of Freedom requires 15 ranks in a perform skill. Since Elan may not have his lute on his person, he may not be able to use this ability. We know he can sing and play the kazoo, but he probably hasn't invested skill points to max out two perform skills.

[Tebryn]

DS doesn't seem like a very caster oriented (or Bard oriented) class, but I guess only the Giant can tell us for sure.

I fully agree. I was just offering a suggestion.

[Chronos]

What? No it doesn't. Bardic Music is a separate ability to spell casting. Dashing Swordsman might advance or partially advance spell casting while not advancing the bardic music ability.

He specifically said that he went Bard for his most recent level instead of Dashing Swordsman because he wanted to advance his spellcasting. I guess DS could give a slow spell progression and he wants a fast one, but we'd have to assume that he's already gotten at least two DS spellcasting levels, then. Plus, he was probably a level 12 bard even before DS.

And I'd think it perfectly plausible that he might have maxed out two different Perform skills-- That'd give him a +2 from a masterwork instrument when he had a chance to use it, but still leave him able to perform when he doesn't have the lute available, or when his hands are occupied.

[NerfTW]

Or he's *ignoring* the fact Elan has that ability for the sake of plot. If you want an in-world explanation, this is *Elan* we're talking about--he probably doesn't know that Song of Freedom would be able to restore Haley to flesh again, or that Break Enchantment would do the job, for that matter!

Indeed. And the only other person who would suggest it (V) has repeatedly stated a refusal to learn how non-arcane spellcasting works. So plot wise, neither might have known that works.


Far more likely, though, is that the Giant himself just didn't know. It is reasonable to assume that he isn't sitting there with a list of the bard songs available, especially given the general tendency for bard songs to be considered "useless".

[Tebryn]

Indeed. And the only other person who would suggest it (V) has repeatedly stated a refusal to learn how non-arcane spellcasting works. So plot wise, neither might have known that works.

Except Bardic magic is Arcane. And V knows about Durkon's magic which isn't. So...probably not that.

I simply just don't think he has enough levels of bard.

[ORione]

Except Bardic magic is Arcane. And V knows about Durkon's magic which isn't. So...probably not that.

I simply just don't think he has enough levels of bard.

Again, he would need to have 12 levels of bard to get Song of Freedom. He would need to have 13 levels to get 5th level spells, which he has.

[Tebryn]

Again, he would need to have 12 levels of bard to get Song of Freedom. He would need to have 13 levels to get 5th level spells, which he has.

Again we don't know if Dashing Swordsman has partial or full increase in spell casting which wouldn't effect his bardic music. He could have 11 levels of bard and still have 13 levels of spell casting.

[Warmage]

Two points:

1) Elan is stupid. He may not know/remember he can use a song to cure Haley.

2) V has, in the past, been uninterested in the abilities of anyone that is not a mage or sorceror. Recent (and not-so recent) events seem to have him becoming more interested in primary spellcasters, such as clerics and druids. Add onto the fact that everyone considers bards (and Elan, specifically) completely useless and that Song of Freedom isn't actually a spell, V may be completely unaware of the fact that Elan is useful. Dorkun may not even know of his songs.

Given that, I believe it would be prety funny if, after all this running around, Nale lets it slip that Elan could break the enchantment anytime and so, Elan does and Haley proceeds to sneak attack a skanky flying demon/devil/whatever.

[rbetieh]

I am convinced elan has enough perform ranks to use the break enchantment song. Proof is even an epic sorceror enjoyed his dirge for Roy. But elan is elan and he seems to forget about being a bard from time to time. Last we saw him perform was when he combined inspire courage with dashing swordsman to sing beetles songs at the beetle people....

[KillianHawkeye]

I am convinced elan has enough perform ranks to use the break enchantment song. Proof is even an epic sorceror enjoyed his dirge for Roy.

You realize that doesn't actually prove anything, right?

[martianmister]

Elan is a CHA modifier.

[Castamir]

Don't forget that Elan is a cretin. He also needs to be told how to use every single of his class abilities and spells. For example, V had to not only remind Elan he can cast spells but also tell him how to make an illusion just hours after he was instructed to do that by Haley. Afterwards, he used illusion on his own once when it had no tactical benefit, and not a single time when it would actually do something good.

[factotum]

Actually, he's used illusions independently several times, but usually he tries the female version of whatever's chasing them and it doesn't work...apart from against Thog, who surrendered so he wouldn't get girl cooties!

[legomaster00156]

Dorkun may not even know of his songs.

No, I expect Dorkun doesn't know anything about the rules.

[rbetieh]

You realize that doesn't actually prove anything, right?

I realize that the fact that he went from "bluff the stupid ogre" and "move silently across the battlefield" to full lyric songs doesnt prove some level of ability growth in a bard to you.

I think Elan is getting better at singing, I attribute that to point assignment in perform skills. Besides I doubt Xykon would think "jump, jump, jump across the ravine" as catchy as "Oh, guy I killed..."

[Kish]

Again we don't know if Dashing Swordsman has partial or full increase in spell casting which wouldn't effect his bardic music. He could have 11 levels of bard and still have 13 levels of spell casting.

Again, he explicitly said he took his last level in bard rather than Dashing Swordsman because he wanted to advance his spellcasting ability.

[willpell]

Not a spell. A basic bard class feature. And I dont' think "Elan is dumb" cuts it when his girlfriend is turned to stone; he'd get the hamster-wheel going in his head for this one, no matter how content he is to spazz out most of the time. It is legit to think the Giant forgot, but it's disappointing if he overlooked such a major plot hole - he can handwave it away and just say SoF doesn't do that in this universe, but that's directly contradicting the D&D rules, and OOTS's original raison d'etre was to lampoon those rules rather than changing them when the situation dictates. He's within his rights to do it for the sake of story, but it's a little disappointing if he has to.

[FujinAkari]

Not a spell. A basic bard class feature. And I dont' think "Elan is dumb" cuts it when his girlfriend is turned to stone;

Yes, because life-and-death situations are exactly the thing to force someone to start serious contemplation and logic-

Seriously? If he is usually a goof and doesn't pay attention to his class abilities, and now has a whole lot of stress piled on top, why would you think he'd be able to NOW?