Gluttony?

[Dr.Epic]

not anymore!
However, the gluttony this is less than important. see, it goes like this:
Life leads to evolution. evolution leads to Spiral Nemisis, leads to piercing of heavens leads to awesome leads to love and spirit saving the galaxy.

Which leads to...

Spoiler

Show

LOVE AND PEACE!

[Nimrod's Son]

Since it was written that way in the opening title sequence of the film?

No, funnily enough. It's an obviously stylised logo that appears in the opening credits, and all publications at the time were calling it by its proper name. I didn't see a single instance of anyone writing "Se7en" (which will always read as "Sesevenen" to me) until years later. I think it might have been written that way on a DVD boxcover or something.

[jere7my]

No, funnily enough. It's an obviously stylised logo that appears in the opening credits, and all publications at the time were calling it by its proper name. I didn't see a single instance of anyone writing "Se7en" (which will always read as "Sesevenen" to me) until years later. I think it might have been written that way on a DVD boxcover or something.

You can watch the opening credits here. "SE7EN" appears at 0:25.

You can see a still from the credits here.

Sure looks like SE7EN to me, "stylized" or no.

[FujinAkari]

You can watch the opening credits here. "SE7EN" appears at 0:25.

You can see a still from the credits here.

Sure looks like SE7EN to me, "stylized" or no.

... so you just proved that "SE7EN" appears in the opening credits... in response to him saying that "SE7EN" appeared in the opening credits (but no one actually called it that at the time)... why?

[VanBuren]

Wikipedia accepts both. So there you go.

[Steward]

... so you just proved that "SE7EN" appears in the opening credits... in response to him saying that "SE7EN" appeared in the opening credits (but no one actually called it that at the time)... why?

Which was exactly my plan, all along. Your fate is sealed.

At least according to fat people who've failed to quit smoking.

Miko wasn't fat, though, and if you fail to quit smoking why would your appetite just suddenly come back?

[jere7my]

... so you just proved that "SE7EN" appears in the opening credits... in response to him saying that "SE7EN" appeared in the opening credits (but no one actually called it that at the time)... why?

LightsOn said, "Since it was written that way in the opening title sequence of the film?" Nimrod said "No, funnily enough." I said, "Actually, it was indeed written that way in the opening credits." Seems pretty straightforward. Nimrod goes on to say:

It's an obviously stylised logo that appears in the opening credits, and all publications at the time were calling it by its proper name. I didn't see a single instance of anyone writing "Se7en" (which will always read as "Sesevenen" to me) until years later. I think it might have been written that way on a DVD boxcover or something.

It's not a "stylized logo" in the opening credits any more then "seven" on the poster is. It's a standard typeface, though admittedly it's distressed and flickering. The characters in the typeface spell SE7EN — it's not a rotated V or a stylized character, it's a 7. So if Nimrod saw the movie, s/he saw someone writing SE7EN — specifically, Kyle Cooper, who designed the opening credits. No need to wait for the DVD; it was written that way in the movie.

Anyway, in response to "no one actually called it that at the time", the movie was released on September 22, 1995. Here are two Usenet posts from the first week of release, September 28 and 29, 1995, in which the movie is consistently called SE7EN:

http://groups.google.com/group/bit.l...87a9e53747ac98

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...59c8ff4c6e9c0c

Other examples are not hard to find.

Edit: Here's a pre-release review from Variety which lists both versions of the name.

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117794764?refcatid=31

Case closed.

[martianmister]

"Greed" leads to Gluttony. But that doesn't mean all types of greedy people is doing the sin of gluttony. Not all types of Greed is leads to Gluttony, one people can be greedy without leading to Gluttony.

[Nimrod's Son]

LightsOn said, "Since it was written that way in the opening title sequence of the film?" Nimrod said "No, funnily enough." I said, "Actually, it was indeed written that way in the opening credits." Seems pretty straightforward.

"No, funnily enough" was in reply to the assertion that people were commonly referring to it as "Se7en" right from the word go. I never once even implied it didn't appear that way in the credits. It even acknowledged it in my post.

Anyway, in response to "no one actually called it that at the time", the movie was released on September 22, 1995. Here are two Usenet posts from the first week of release, September 28 and 29, 1995, in which the movie is consistently called SE7EN:

http://groups.google.com/group/bit.l...87a9e53747ac98

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...59c8ff4c6e9c0c

Other examples are not hard to find.

No, I'm sure they're not. I never said "no one ever called it that". I'm talking about the point when it became standard, rather than the exception. All official sources at the time, other than the opening credits, said "Seven". All magazine articles and TV spots (that I saw, at least), said "Seven". These days, it's the other way around.

Case closed.

I wasn't posing a mystery, Detective. I was just saying that it's a horrible, forced way of writing it and I find it weird that it's become so obiquitous. In the weird, jittery style of the opening credits it makes sense that it's written that way; much less so on a page of text. (It's that whole Comic Sans thing again, basically.) Also it seems way to much of a "1337" spelling for a pretty old-school noir-ish sort of film. And everyone knows 7 is a T, anyway.

[jere7my]

I never said "no one ever called it that". I'm talking about the point when it became standard, rather than the exception. All official sources at the time, other than the opening credits, said "Seven". All magazine articles and TV spots (that I saw, at least), said "Seven". These days, it's the other way around.

What you said was "all publications at the time were calling it by its proper name." That's obviously false — Variety is the single most important publication of the entertainment industry, and it used SE7EN in a pre-release review. (That was the second review I checked; there are probably others.) There are literally hundreds of Usenet threads about SE7EN from 1995. There are official studio posters from 1995 that say SE7EN:

http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/6e1985ac/
http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/b65cb22f/
http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/301b6c51/

There was (unsurprisingly) a long debate about this on Wikipedia, and while they eventually settled on "Seven" there are plenty of arguments for SE7EN — for instance, that's the name that New Line used on their (now defunct) website, and the name the filmmakers submitted to the British Board of Film Classification.

So it seems to me that both titles were in widespread use at the time of release, and there's no consensus on the "official" title of the movie. (David Fincher hasn't spoken up, as far as I can tell.) If you missed seeing that until the DVD came out, that's fine, but I think you're trying to generalize your personal experience into a trend that doesn't exist. I understand that it bugs you, but all the way back in 1995 people — official and professional and non- — were using SE7EN with regularity.

[Nimrod's Son]

If you missed seeing that until the DVD came out, that's fine, but I think you're trying to generalize your personal experience into a trend that doesn't exist. I understand that it bugs you, but all the way back in 1995 people — official and professional and non- — were using SE7EN with regularity.

Yes, and I copped to that all along. Again, I'm was talking about the point where it became the norm. It wasn't the norm to write it as "Se7en" back in '95, no matter how many examples you find. And even that was a particularly unimportant part of an already throwaway statement. I wish I'd just said, "Man, I hate that spelling" and not mentioned anything about time whatsoever and then we wouldn't have this tedious derailment.

Sorry everyone. I'm pathologically incapable of not responding when people quote me. It should never have come to this.

[jere7my]

Yes, and I copped to that all along. Again, I'm was talking about the point where it became the norm. It wasn't the norm to write it as "Se7en" back in '95, no matter how many examples you find.

Well, the only way to settle that would be with an exhaustive survey. It's my sense that both were in common use back then (e.g., in Variety), and both are in common use now (e.g., "Seven" on Wikipedia), but I'm happy to let it drop.

Sorry everyone. I'm pathologically incapable of not responding when people quote me. It should never have come to this.

No worries. As you can tell from my name, the issue of numbers in proper names is one dear to my heart.

[VanBuren]

It wasn't the norm to write it as "Se7en" back in '95, no matter how many examples you find.

Wait, what?

[LightsOnNo1Home]

Yes, and I copped to that all along. Again, I'm was talking about the point where it became the norm. It wasn't the norm to write it as "Se7en" back in '95, no matter how many examples you find. And even that was a particularly unimportant part of an already throwaway statement. I wish I'd just said, "Man, I hate that spelling" and not mentioned anything about time whatsoever and then we wouldn't have this tedious derailment.

Sorry everyone. I'm pathologically incapable of not responding when people quote me. It should never have come to this.

For what it's worth, I would like to apologise for my part in the derailment of the thread. I totally did not see that coming when I posted. (although in hindsight, I can't think why not)

[B.I.T.T.]

Are we off-topic yet?

Anyway the answer is that salty snackfoods lead to gluttony, comfortable couches lead to sloth, top score on Donkey Kong leads to pride, not getting the top score of Donkey Kong leads to envy, owning the Donkey Kong machine that all these people keep putting quarters in leads to greed, loosing the top score to someone else leads to wrath, and lust...well lets not get into that. Suffice it to say it to say it has nothing to do with Donkey Kong.

[martianmister]

I know what doesn't lead to Gluttony: Discussions about Se7en...

[Mrs Flibble]

No, no, no, no, no!

It's all very simple, if you look at the last few comics and unhinge your brain a little.

Envy (a leading cause of rivalry, say, between V and Z) leads to
Gluttony (oh, that delicious Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing!) leads to
Lust (= Sabine) leads to
Sloth (of the Celestial Tree Attack variety) leads to
Wrath (fury like a succubus scorned) leads to
Pride (which must have, logically and proverbially, gone before Elan's great fall) leads to
Greed (Lawyers. Cheap shot).

[Phishfood]

No, no, no, no, no!

It's all very simple, if you look at the last few comics and unhinge your brain a little.

Envy (a leading cause of rivalry, say, between V and Z) leads to
Gluttony (oh, that delicious Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing!) leads to
Lust (= Sabine) leads to
Sloth (of the Celestial Tree Attack variety) leads to
Wrath (fury like a succubus scorned) leads to
Pride (which must have, logically and proverbially, gone before Elan's great fall) leads to
Greed (Lawyers. Cheap shot).

ô.o
You win 5 internets. Congratulations!

[Kish]

I know what doesn't lead to Gluttony: Discussions about Se7en...

It would appear, in fact, that discussing Sesevenen leads to Wrath.

[Maryring]

But what about vainglory, sorrow and depression? Where do they fit in?

[Douglas Limmer]

But what about vainglory, sorrow and depression? Where do they fit in?

Depression = Sloth. Really. Read some old treatises on it; sloth fits depression far better than it fits mere laziness.

Vainglory might be pride? Or maybe I don't know what vainglory means.

Can't help you with sorrow. Why would that be a deadly sin?

[Steward]

Depression = Sloth. Really. Read some old treatises on it; sloth fits depression far better than it fits mere laziness.

Vainglory might be pride? Or maybe I don't know what vainglory means.

Can't help you with sorrow. Why would that be a deadly sin?

If depression is a deadly sin, why wouldn't sorrow be a sin? I agree that vainglory is pride though.

Greed (Lawyers. Cheap shot).

Wow, this guy nailed it.

[VanBuren]

Depression = Sloth. Really. Read some old treatises on it; sloth fits depression far better than it fits mere laziness.

I thought the traditional Sloth was akin to apathy and moral inaction.

Vainglory might be pride? Or maybe I don't know what vainglory means.

Vainglory was unjustified boasting, which Pope Gregory folded into Pride because he thought they were so similar.

Can't help you with sorrow. Why would that be a deadly sin?

It was a form of Acedia--which basically merged with Sloth--which was neglecting something that one was supposed to do. In the case of sorrow/depression, it was considered an unwillingness to enjoy the goodness of creation.

[ricorum]

Greed leads to Lust, which leads to Gluttony, which leads to Envy, which leads to Sloth, which leads to Wrath, which leads to Pride, which leads back to Greed, which leads to Father and that's terrible.

Funny, funny, funny.

[The Succubus]

I thought the traditional Sloth was akin to apathy and moral inaction.



Vainglory was unjustified boasting, which Pope Gregory folded into Pride because he thought they were so similar.



It was a form of Acedia--which basically merged with Sloth--which was neglecting something that one was supposed to do. In the case of sorrow/depression, it was considered an unwillingness to enjoy the goodness of creation.

I thought it was Sloth leads to Succubus and Succubus leads to Energy Drain.

[Steward]

I thought it was Sloth leads to Succubus and Succubus leads to Energy Drain.

Of course you would think that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think letting corporate america advertise junk gods to kids helps lead to it.

[H Birchgrove]

I think letting corporate america advertise junk gods to kids helps lead to it.

"Gods" (omnipotent beings) or "goods" (stuff made in factories etc)?

[Zmflavius]

"Gods" (omnipotent beings) or "goods" (stuff made in factories etc)?

Both. American kids worship the junk goods the corporations sell to them.

[Phishfood]

Reminds me of the sequence in "Over the hedge" where he is on about the human obsession with food.

They eat the food, drink the food, wear the food, this is what you eat when you eat too much food, they worship the food, they drive the food....