[3.5 Archivist 5] Picking Feats and Spells, and Spending Money...

[Zovc]

Howdy, folks! I'm making an Archivist and jumping into a campaign that has been running for a while now. I've never really played this sort of character before, so I'm seeking advice.

I'm playing a Grey Elf, so I don't have a whole lot of feats to pick from, but I'm still at a loss. According to the Archivist Handbook v2, I should seek to pick up Academic Priest to make me more SAD. That suits my character, so I'm asking my DM about it. None of its other 'general pupose' feats really suit my preferences or the character I'm building.
I'm giving consideration to the Knowledge Devotion feat because I'm sure I'll be able to put it to use.
That still leaves me with one (potentially two if Academic Priest is a no-go) feat left to account for.

On the topic of spells, I've asked and early access through the Adept, Paladin, Ranger, Divine Bard, or similar has been considered too cheesy. I am allowed to reference 'non-core' or obscure divine spell lists, though they'll be allegedly harder to access.
I only have my starting orisons and eleven cleric spells known to take for granted, but just asked the boss about expanding my spells known 'during character creation.'
What spells should I be learning (or trying to learn)?

Finally, Are there any specific things I should be spending money on? Do my longsword/longbow proficiencies matter to me?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

An Archivist Archer is actually an extremely strong choice, especially considering all the spells exclusive to the Ranger list that you should be able to learn. You'll want to take a level of Cloistered Cleric at 1st and then Archivist afterward, to get Turn Undead for DMM: Persist. You can get the Planning domain for Extend Spell, Elf domain for Point-Blank Shot, trade your bonus Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion, and spend feats on Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent, and Precise Shot.

You can take two flaws (more here) for two extra feats, and flaws are only limited to 'during character creation' so they can be spent on feats you didn't qualify for at 1st level. Start with an Elvencraft Composite Longbow (RotW), all three portions masterwork, and all three portions with their own Wand Chamber (DS). Make it a +1 bow and pick up Item Familiar, or failing that get Ancestral Relic for it, and you can upgrade it yourself. Item Familiar's 10% xp bonus is going to be necessary if your DM enforces the xp penalties for multiclassing and you start with a Cloistered Cleric dip. Consider spending extra feats on Extra Turning, and you'll want Rapid Shot and Woodland Archer (RotW) later on.

The standard fee for copying spells from an NPC's spellbook or an NPC-owned library is spell level x 50 gp, this is for Wizards but an Archivist's prayerbook works the same way. You should still buy scrolls for 1st level spells since they only cost 25 gp. Spells you should definitely try to start with include Swift Haste, Guided Shot, and Arrow Mind, all in Spell Compendium, all of which can be made Persistent. You can also put DMM: Persistent Elation (BoED) and Mass Lesser Vigor (SC) on the whole party. Later on be sure to use (Greater) Luminous Armor (BoED) with Magic Vestment on it every day.

[Zovc]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Ranger spell list. I'll look into seeing if I can use flaws for some extra feats.

I'm also not particularly interested in dipping into Cloistered Cleric. I might end up trying to be a Sacred Exorcist or something later on, though.

[Zovc]

Bump! So, still no word on whether or not Academic Priest will be allowed--I'm taking that as a no. I need to fill two feats beyond Knowledge Devotion.

The cleric spells I chose to learn by character level are:
1st: Bless, Divine Favor, Lesser Vigor, Obscuring Mist, Sanctuary
2nd: Close Wounds, Guidance of the Avatar, Hold Person, Lore of the Gods
3rd: Dispel Magic, Magic Circle Against Evil

Also, I have my Level 4 WBL (party hasn't gotten their loot from reaching level 5 yet, so I'll be partaking in that with them) to spend on spells and gear.

Glancing through the Archivist's Handbook, are any of these spells worth my precious GPs for level 5 encounters and beyond?
1st: Mage Armor, Identify, Entangle, Grease, Winged Watcher, Aspect of the Wolf, Produce Flame, Barkskin
2nd: Magic Missile, Locate Object, Mass Snake's Swiftness, Blinding Spittle, Creeping Cold, Heart of Air
3rd: Magic Vestment, Mass Lesser Vigor, Fly, Haste, Gaseous Form, Spike Growth, Wind Wall, Crumble, Icelance, Spiderskin, Restoration

Also, are there any especially cool Shugenja spells I should be looking into? My DM has ruled that learning them will cost double because of the exotic nature of the source class.

[DMVerdandi]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Ranger spell list. I'll look into seeing if I can use flaws for some extra feats.

I'm also not particularly interested in dipping into Cloistered Cleric. I might end up trying to be a Sacred Exorcist or something later on, though.

How do you not have access to the ranger list?
You have them participate in making scrolls. Read up on aid another in making magic items. Ranger provides the spell, you provide the scribing.

If your dm says you cannot, he is not allowing you to play in the spirit of the archivist in the first place. get outta dodge. RAW you have access to all divine spells.

[Zovc]

How do you not have access to the ranger list?
You have them participate in making scrolls. Read up on aid another in making magic items. Ranger provides the spell, you provide the scribing.

If your dm says you cannot, he is not allowing you to play in the spirit of the archivist in the first place. get outta dodge. RAW you have access to all divine spells.

I can sympathize with feeling RAI was not to allow level 1 characters to get access to spells that level 3 and 4 characters are just getting access to. While I don't personally think it's a big deal for a level 1 character to be able to cast Restoration, I understand the precedent of not wanting to allow it.

[DMVerdandi]

I can sympathize with feeling RAI was not to allow level 1 characters to get access to spells that level 3 and 4 characters are just getting access to. While I don't personally think it's a big deal for a level 1 character to be able to cast Restoration, I understand the precedent of not wanting to allow it.

You must remember, rangers/paladins/ect are not full casters.
They have full bab, thus delayed spellcasting.

There are spells that paladins and clerics gain at the same time, and spells that druids get before clerics, ect. Point is, if one is a full caster, they get access WAY earlier. Partial spell-casting is not balancing the spell list, it's balancing the class.

Archivist was VERY much designed in the way it was intended. It gives access to ALL divine classes, yet their aren't any that get scribe scroll for free and it's the only divine class with a prayer-book.
So how are you supposed to get the spells?

1. Buying them (divine scrolls are in the dmg strangely)
2. Research (stranger still)
3. Making them with other classes.

If it wasn't supposed to hound around for the best spells in the divine spell list, it wouldn't exist. Clerics get all of their spells, so forcing them to cast only cleric spells out of a spellbook would be a monumental nerf.


What do you think about artificers?
They get to make scrolls from ALL SPELL LISTS from the jump. Sure they can't cast, but they can still make these things on the cheap. Cheap enough that the costs become negligible.

[Zovc]

If it wasn't supposed to hound around for the best spells in the divine spell list, it wouldn't exist. Clerics get all of their spells, so forcing them to cast only cleric spells out of a spellbook would be a monumental nerf.

I have access to all the full casting divine spell lists I'm aware of. Cleric and Druid are readily available, and Shugenja is available but costs twice as much.

I'll try asking my DM again about using the Ranger and Paladin lists specifically. When I asked him about everything an an open-ended manner, he specifically was against considering the Divine Bard's spells as available and was also against me being able to use the Adept's spell list.

And to clarify, I agree that the Paladin and Ranger's spell lists were balanced to the the class rather than the arbitrary spell level. This is why I have some amount of sympathy with not allowing it. Even though a Paladin's first level spell list includes things like Bless.

I decided an Item Familiar sounds kind of cool, so I'm looking into that. I'm also going to look into that Elvencraft Longbow thing Biffoniacus_Furiou mentioned while I'm at it, but I don't know how much it will agree with level 4 WBL.

[Ramza00]

If the DM wants to be fair with the intent of the class and still be balanced he shouldn't allow you early access to spells from other classes due to archivist having a fasterbspell progression yet he should still allow access to the class.

Favor of the martyr is still a 4th level spell, but you have to wait till 14th level to get it for that is the earliest paladins can cast the spell, heal is a 5th level adept spell but adepts can cast it till 16th level, hunters mercy is a 1st level ranger spell which you can't cast till level 4 etc.

Convince your DM to let you have an ancestral relic (feat) prayer book, even if you just use the feat to grab cleric spells it should help.

[Zovc]

If DM doesn't want me using Paladin and Ranger spells at all (because of the level difference), I'll try asking for your suggestion.

Convince your DM to let you have an ancestral relic (feat) prayer book, even if you just use the feat to grab cleric spells it should help.

That actually sounds cool and flavorful for the character concept I'm going for. What exactly would an ancestral relic do for a prayer book? What sorts of enhancements can you put on it?