Diablo III: Not Just a Vitality Race!

[Psyren]

"We" don't know anything of the sort. No need to go into this argument again, but suffice to say that not everyone agrees with that standpoint.

I can't imagine why not, though. If it quacks like a duck etc.

Following the money generally leads to business justifications. (Not saying this is a bad thing of course.)

Since the quest selector (this is going strictly by Beta, unknown if this will function as such in live) allows you to pick previously completed quests, it would stand to reason that you would have that level of selection in group/random content as well.

Quest selector? Do you mean I can choose games for quests I've already completed? And if so, will it match me to other people rerunning that quest for farming purposes, or to people that haven't done it before?

My experience with D2, WoW etc. led me to believe that the two camps don't always play nice - a person that already finished a quest a dozen times, for instance, gets into that "gogogo" mentality where they get impatient with anyone who takes even a minute reading the quest text or watching the cutscenes. Is there anything in the quest selector that indicates those two camps will be kept separate?

[Karoht]

Quest selector? Do you mean I can choose games for quests I've already completed?

Copy pasta, slightly edited
"Since the quest selector (deleted) allows you to pick previously completed quests..."

And if so, will it match me to other people rerunning that quest for farming purposes, or to people that haven't done it before?

It matches you to other people on that quest, or selecting that quest for whatever their purposes are for selecting that quest.

My experience with D2, WoW etc. led me to believe that the two camps don't always play nice - a person that already finished a quest a dozen times, for instance, gets into that "gogogo" mentality where they get impatient with anyone who takes even a minute reading the quest text or watching the cutscenes. Is there anything in the quest selector that indicates those two camps will be kept separate?

Then play by yourself the first time through. None of the content will require grouping to complete.


As for skipping stuff...
-Quest text, the person interacting with the NPC can skip stuff. If you don't want the other guy to skip things, then either you interact with the NPC first, or do all the quests solo. It's not like you won't be seeing them again.
-Cutscenes, if someone wants to skip, there is a prompt, I'm pretty sure all party members have to select skip in order to skip it.


In fact, all things considered, I can't fathom an actual reason why anyone would actually hit random, since there is really no need to, unless you want to socialize. The benefits aren't that gamebreaking for grouping like they were in D2. If you want to socialize and the other person doesn't, go find someone else. If you're worried about the 'gogogo' guy, then don't hit random. There is no opportunity loss for not grouping with strangers, and none of the content will require grouping.

[AgentPaper]

My experience with D2, WoW etc. led me to believe that the two camps don't always play nice - a person that already finished a quest a dozen times, for instance, gets into that "gogogo" mentality where they get impatient with anyone who takes even a minute reading the quest text or watching the cutscenes. Is there anything in the quest selector that indicates those two camps will be kept separate?

At least in general, you should only find people who haven't done that quest before. People who have already done that content will most likely be spending their time farming end-game content in Inferno. If they do decide they want to go back and farm a lower-level area for some reason, I'd expect most of them would just make a single player game so they can rush as much as they want.

Though that does raise a point. If low-level farming becomes something you want to do, then it seems logical that the best way to do so would be to take your high-level character into a random game, then just ignore the other three and solo the whole place, picking up your loot, then leaving. You can't pick up anyone else's items, of course, but you still get a bit more loot since there's more monsters and such.

Hopefully this kind of thing will at least be fairly rare, so if it happens once or twice to someone it's just a sort of "hey cool free items" deal.

[Psyren]

Then play by yourself the first time through. None of the content will require grouping to complete.

Karoht, whatever you seem to think: it is not unreasonable for the players to expect a Blizzard game to be designed around the assumption that a sizeable portion of their fanbase are difficult to get along with (to put it mildly), yet few people will want to play the game alone anyway.

In short, the answer for "potential for griefing/jerkish behavior exists [here]" is not simply "then be a hermit!" It's an extreme response to negative behavior that can be curtailed behind the scenes with good game design, rather than hamfistedly expecting players to flip the off-switch on interaction with new people entirely.

-Quest text, the person interacting with the NPC can skip stuff. If you don't want the other guy to skip things, then either you interact with the NPC first, or do all the quests solo. It's not like you won't be seeing them again.

You mean there isn't separate quest text per person? It'll be like escort quests in WoW, where whoever clicks on the NPC ends up charging off with them while you have no idea what's going on unless you're a speed reader?

That's... 10 times worse than I imagined, and I hope this is not the case or that I'm misunderstanding.

-Cutscenes, if someone wants to skip, there is a prompt, I'm pretty sure all party members have to select skip in order to skip it.

That's somewhat a good but could lead to griefing (intentional or unintentional e.g. my phone rings/cat gets in the room during a cutscene, everyone else votes to skip and I'm chasing it around while the other players think I'm a newb, a jerk, or both.)

In fact, all things considered, I can't fathom an actual reason why anyone would actually hit random, since there is really no need to, unless you want to socialize.

You can't, because you have a healthy and vibrant guild/clan that you can jump into games with, or alternatively have no problems soloing.

But judging by all the random games that still populate D2 over a decade later... are you willing to concede that yours may not be the majority perspective?

If you want to socialize and the other person doesn't, go find someone else. If you're worried about the 'gogogo' guy, then don't hit random. There is no opportunity loss for not grouping with strangers, and none of the content will require grouping.

Of course I'd rather play with someone else. The problem is, I won't know if I have a "gogogo" guy until the first time he skips something I wanted to read.

[Karoht]

Karoht, whatever you seem to think: it is not unreasonable for the players to expect a Blizzard game to be designed around the assumption that a sizeable portion of their fanbase are difficult to get along with (to put it mildly), yet few people will want to play the game alone anyway.

If it is so simple, by all means explain to me a mechanic that deals with the problem once you find yourself in a game with the 'gogogo' guy, other than simply not having an option to skip content. Go ahead, you seem to think it's simple. Lets see what you've got.

People with poor social skills are not going to have those skills fixed in a video game. If their entire lifetime of socialization got them where they are, feel free to explain how it is suddenly the responsibility of a video game company to undo the damage.

In short, the answer for "potential for griefing/jerkish behavior exists [here]" is not simply "then be a hermit!" It's an extreme response to negative behavior that can be curtailed behind the scenes with good game design, rather than hamfistedly expecting players to flip the off-switch on interaction with new people entirely.

And surprisingly, the response of 'people should stop playing like jerks' also seems to get negative responses. Yes, because it's Blizzard's fault that people are jerks on the internet. Next you'll suggest that microsoft is to blame for teabagging and explitive filled comments about one's mother over Xbox live.

You mean there isn't separate quest text per person? It'll be like escort quests in WoW, where whoever clicks on the NPC ends up charging off with them while you have no idea what's going on unless you're a speed reader?
That's... 10 times worse than I imagined, and I hope this is not the case or that I'm misunderstanding.

You know, maybe you should just go watch some footage on youtube or something. That might be better. You really have a tendancy to jump to conclusions when asking about features of this game, it would clear things up greatly if you would just go see for yourself.

Okay, so you just got back to town with the mcguffin. You go talk to Deckard Cain. He starts talking, your character responds. There's VO with text on the screen. There's a conversation. The other player doesn't have to go talk to Deckard Cain as well. They can go for example, over the blacksmith and make stuff while this is going on. Usually I go talk to the person, and then go rummage through my stash while the quest text/VA goes on.
It means you don't have to wait for 1-3 other players to all turn the quest in before you can proceed. Yes, the person who turns it in can skip it. However, as I mentioned before, you can replay it at any time. Also, if someone does skip it, you can just scroll up in the chat window and read the whole thing there as well.
It's also typically short and not long-winded, so you don't save a load of time by skipping it. Mind you we haven't hit any of the lore heavy stuff yet which may be more long-winded, so hard to say.

Come to think of it, I think you are also able to replay it from your quest log. I'll have to check that.

That's somewhat a good but could lead to griefing (intentional or unintentional e.g. my phone rings/cat gets in the room during a cutscene, everyone else votes to skip and I'm chasing it around while the other players think I'm a newb, a jerk, or both.)

Am I the only one who realizes, when people say stuff like this, you would be missing it chasing a cat in the first place?
So replay it later.
I'm pretty sure it's all 4 players have to hit skip for the in-game cutscenes (IE-Skeleton King giving Deckard Cain a hard time), but I could be wrong, I've yet to group with anyone who's even voted to skip anything. Even then, if you are off chasing a cat or answering the door, its still going to be playing if it didn't skip.

But judging by all the random games that still populate D2 over a decade later... are you willing to concede that yours may not be the majority perspective?

I am.
Are you willing to concede that a game that is designed to be soloable, with an option to repeat content, it is reasonable for people to simply go back and repeat that content again if they really want to see it?
Especially considering that it is expected that people will repeat certain content anyway (xp, loot, farming in general, reviewing content that they enjoy), is it reasonable to expect people to go back and see it again if they really want to?

Honestly, you're blowing this out of proportion. You're making it sound as if someone skips something, you will never ever ever ever be able to see it again, and that simply is not true. If anything, people will be complaining about seeing it many many many times, even in just one difficulty level, let alone seeing it in nightmare, hell, and inferno difficulties as well.

[Psyren]

If it is so simple, by all means explain to me a mechanic that deals with the problem once you find yourself in a game with the 'gogogo' guy, other than simply not having an option to skip content. Go ahead, you seem to think it's simple. Lets see what you've got.

Two ways off the top of my head:

1) Individual quest text: He skips his, and I can keep reading while he runs off to kill monsters. I'll only be a few moments to a minute behind. Couple this with a "window" in which I can accept the quest a few seconds after he already did without being locked out of that objective. Unless the sequential quest objectives are on top of each other, this shouldn't be a problem.

2) A "Party Leader" system; this could default to the room creator, but if I'm the one questing I can request that it be me. Based on their response (including the method of their refusal, if so) I can get a better idea up front the kind of person I'm dealing with, and can choose to leave before getting to a point that would cause either of us frustration. This person would then choose whether to skip stuff or not.

Blizzard of course - being Blizzard - can no doubt come up with even better ways. But "anyone who hits the skip button skips the quest text for everyone" is what I read, which is why I hope I'm mistaken.

People with poor social skills are not going to have those skills fixed in a video game. If their entire lifetime of socialization got them where they are, feel free to explain how it is suddenly the responsibility of a video game company to undo the damage.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the game company to fix anyone. (That carries awful connotations of neutering when I say it like that )

However, they DO have the responsibility of anticipating poor behavior and implementing systems to prevent/minimize it - the same way they did when they (for example) designated town to be a no-combat zone in both prior games. They knew how people were back then, and how they still are now.

And I don't think that's Blizzard's fault, either. But it's their playground, and they have a responsibility to curtail nasty behavior as best they can.

Honestly, you're blowing this out of proportion. You're making it sound as if someone skips something, you will never ever ever ever be able to see it again, and that simply is not true. If anything, people will be complaining about seeing it many many many times, even in just one difficulty level, let alone seeing it in nightmare, hell, and inferno difficulties as well.

Good design is as much about the minor conveniences as the major. "The diablo is in the details," and all that. This is particularly true when D3 is actually going to have some decent competition for a change, and all signs point to them wanting to make an ongoing revenue stream out of the property.

[AgentPaper]

At any rate, I think we're close enough to the game coming out that we can take our "developer hats" off and just worry about how we're actually going to play the game.

Speaking of which, what do you guys think about melee witch doctor builds? I was playing around with it in the beta, and it was actually pretty fun. Basic idea is, have most of your spells be summons and support, carry around a big 2-handed sword, and use Flamethrower Bats as your main attack. The bats drain your mana pretty quickly, so while it's down you use your sword to beat down. Protection is provided mainly by your dogs and stuff like confusion and terrify to keep enemies from attacking you in any significant fashion while you happily chop them to bits. Optimal? Almost certainly not. Viable? I plan to find out!

[Starwulf]

So, I am curious about something. Really curious actually, since it will, unfortunately, dictate whether or not I buy the game or not. The same friend who asked about the named games, showed me the minimum specs for the game, and, surprisingly, my computer actually meets all of them and exceeds as well by a fair amount. The only one I don't, is the only one I can't change, and I was wondering if you could confirm it Karoht. Broad-band. Is it truly the minimum requirement? Dial-up can't/won't be able to connect to the servers at all? I'm kind of hoping maybe he found some made up specs or something, I'm going to be awfully depressed if I can't play the game after-all :-(

[AgentPaper]

Broadbrand isn't required unless they've changed something significantly in the past few months. I'm able to play it through my wireless hotspot, which is significantly worse than broadband internet.

As to whether it'll work on dial-up, I can't say. I'd expect it would, but the real question is how well it runs. I suspect that it should run moderately well, but there's no way to say for sure without trying.

I'd suggest not buying the game right off, and then asking a friend to try and run the game on your computer/internet for a while to see if/how well it works.

[Starwulf]

Broadbrand isn't required unless they've changed something significantly in the past few months. I'm able to play it through my wireless hotspot, which is significantly worse than broadband internet.

As to whether it'll work on dial-up, I can't say. I'd expect it would, but the real question is how well it runs. I suspect that it should run moderately well, but there's no way to say for sure without trying.

I'd suggest not buying the game right off, and then asking a friend to try and run the game on your computer/internet for a while to see if/how well it works.

Woot! Thank you for not only answering my question, but giving personal experience that refutes that. I guess I will have to wait, as much as it's going to pain me to do so and not buy the CE :-(. Who knows, maybe I will anyways. If I end up not being able to use it, I'll just sell it on E-bay or something ^^

[Suichimo]

Diablo III Beta invite get!

Download this over lunch and then start playing tonight.

[Karoht]

Karoht.1505 if you're looking for someone to goof off with.

Also, you may want to check out the diablo fans page, they tend to have news pretty frequently.

[tribble]

Wow, I just lost a necromancer I'd been working on for three weeks because duriel's model eclipsed my town portal. That does it, I'm going to try hammerdin.

[Suichimo]

Karoht.1505 if you're looking for someone to goof off with.

Also, you may want to check out the diablo fans page, they tend to have news pretty frequently.

Suichimo#1427

Is that what diii.net, formerly dii.net, became?

[Karoht]

Suichimo#1427

Is that what diii.net, formerly dii.net, became?

No clue. Maybe?

[TamerBill]

Is that what diii.net, formerly dii.net, became?

diii.net became diablo.incgamers.com.

[Suichimo]

Got in several good hours and am extremely close to having a level 13 Wizard.

Holy **** balls this game is fun. For anyone worried about how the game holds up to Diablo 2, don't be. Despite the new coat of paint and the sleek, new mechanics, this game feels exactly like Diablo 2.

Dungeons are a blast and the random events are nice to change things up. I wish I could've gone through the Den of the Fallen when I found it, but I was too low of a level.


For everyone in the beta, where is the best place to get the 20 kill achievement?

[Chen]

For everyone in the beta, where is the best place to get the 20 kill achievement?

Is it 20 at once or something? There's a mini-quest that sometimes spawns in one of the random Crypts where you activate some orb thing and then you're swarmed by skeletons and just have to survive. Near the end of that there are TONS of skeletons around so any largish AOE at that point will probably get you more than 20 kills at once.

[Karoht]

Is it 20 at once or something? There's a mini-quest that sometimes spawns in one of the random Crypts where you activate some orb thing and then you're swarmed by skeletons and just have to survive. Near the end of that there are TONS of skeletons around so any largish AOE at that point will probably get you more than 20 kills at once.

My record there is 75 on my Barbarian. People have got much higher.
As for at once, 17 objects, 12 enemies from a single blow. Both from the Wizard. Force Wave is really rather good at low level.
Mind you both of these were before the resent reset.


Den of the Fallen? It had a level requirement? I've been in there as low as level 5.

[Suichimo]

My record there is 75 on my Barbarian. People have got much higher.
As for at once, 17 objects, 12 enemies from a single blow. Both from the Wizard. Force Wave is really rather good at low level.
Mind you both of these were before the resent reset.


Den of the Fallen? It had a level requirement? I've been in there as low as level 5.

I'll clarify, I was too low of a level to go in by myself and even think about living.

I did get Massive Blow though. Force Wave made it surprisingly easy, I was trying with Disintegrate. My Wizard is just a bar away from 13 as well.

Anyone want to get together tonight?

[Karoht]

I'll clarify, I was too low of a level to go in by myself and even think about living.

I went in there at 5 and lived. What level were you there at?

Force Wave made it surprisingly easy, I was trying with Disintegrate. My Wizard is just a bar away from 13 as well.

You get Disintegrate at level 8 now. Admittedly, when you are level 8 Disintegrate is not that grate, unless you craft yourself an Oak Wand. Then it actually has the damage potential to be good. Or just wait until level 10, it seems to scale better then.

Wait, you were level 8 and the Den of the Fallen was going to kill you?
Also, since you can't really tell the level of enemies, how exactly did you deduce that you were too low a level?

Anyone want to get together tonight?

If I didn't have real life gaming to attend I would say sure.


FYI I am going to be running my Wizard as my main, trust me when I say that it is worth your time to visit the official website and read a bit about any class you are interested in. Check out the skill calculator as well. Worth it if only to see how runes affect your various skills.
I'm going with a 'turret' build with my Wizard, to partner up with my fiance and her Witchdoctor with a summons focus. Mirror Image + Hydra with her using (exploding?) dogs and frogs is just going to rock so much.

[Suichimo]

I went in there at 5 and lived. What level were you there at?

Probably about 3 or 4. Arcane Orb was still new to me.

You get Disintegrate at level 8 now. Admittedly, when you are level 8 Disintegrate is not that grate, unless you craft yourself an Oak Wand. Then it actually has the damage potential to be good. Or just wait until level 10, it seems to scale better then.

Are the craftable rare wands low enough level to be used in the beta?

Also, since you can't really tell the level of enemies, how exactly did you deduce that you were too low a level?

I was dying, quickly. Didn't exactly help that the first thing I met was frozen, but I still barely made it out.

FYI I am going to be running my Wizard as my main, trust me when I say that it is worth your time to visit the official website and read a bit about any class you are interested in. Check out the skill calculator as well. Worth it if only to see how runes affect your various skills.
I'm going with a 'turret' build with my Wizard, to partner up with my fiance and her Witchdoctor with a summons focus. Mirror Image + Hydra with her using (exploding?) dogs and frogs is just going to rock so much.

Not sure, think I may be going arcane at the moment.

[Karoht]

Probably about 3 or 4. Arcane Orb was still new to me.

Not much to learn with Arcane Orb. Point and shoot. Actually, as much as I do love Disintegrate, Arcane Orb will likely be my main Arcane damage, as the passive effect you get at 10 just makes it awesome.

Are the craftable rare wands low enough level to be used in the beta?

You don't need a rare one to make Disintegrate 'worth it' per se. The first wand you can craft is excellent for the level availablity. You probably won't get your first rare wand pattern until your blacksmith is at least level 3, but the pattern is useable by I think a level 9 Wizard.

Not sure, think I may be going arcane at the moment.

All of the Arcane effects are really good. It's a tough arguement to not take Arcane Whirlwind rather than Arcane Orb. The damage is respectable but the control is not. Force Wave is Physical damage and it is excellent battlefield control as well as damage.

[The_Jackal]

Wow, didn't even notice this thread until now. Yep, I'm in the DIII beta, yes, it's going to be awesome, no the online requirement is not going to stop me buying, playing and enjoying it.

From 1-13, I've played every class but the Monk, and they're all amazing (except the monk). The game already scales much more sanely than DII, I remember starting many a DII character with a gemmed bow because I simply couldn't afford to use mana at low levels, and wasn't though enough to go toe to toe with big packs of mobs either. Now you get right into the thick of what your class playstyle is from the word go.

My breakdown of the classes:

Barbarian: My favourite of the bunch, the barbarian is a HUGE improvement over the D2 specimen. Knockback effects, leap attack, shouts, ample AOE, this class just feels like a juggernaut. It's mad tough and brings the damage in a much more enjoyable, visceral way than the one-trick pony whirlwind builds from DII.

Wizard: Without a doubt the most effective class in the beta, all damage, all the time is the motto. Once you unlock disintegrate, there's nothing that can withstand your untamed eldritch fury. With control moves like shockwave and frost nova, you can demolish waves of attackers without getting scratched.

Witch Doctor: Despite what the Necromancer fanboys may tell you, the Witch Doctor is 1,000,000 times better than the Necro ever was. You don't have to choose anymore between tough pets and hard-hitting spells, now you get both. With 3 zombie dogs plus your follower, you are free to spam haunt and firebomb into the back ranks of the enemy, then laugh maniacally as they melt away.

Demon Hunter: Probably the least strong of all my beta toons, the Demon Hunter is still loads of fun and can dish out immense execution, and the dual resource system makes this class my dark-horse favourite for being the most engaging in the long run. Traps keep your enemies hobbled while a fusilade of ranged attacks cut them down to size.

Monk: I only played 9 or so levels of the Monk before getting bored. This is probably a playstyle and aesthetic thing, I just felt that anything the Monk could do, the Barbarian did with 10 times as much heavy-metal viking. Still a perfectly servicable melee combatant, the difference between the Monk and Barb is largely one of tempo. Where the Barbarian hits twice, the monk hits three times. The barbarian felt better vs. packs, the monk was definitely higher damage versus a single opponent. Eh, that's why there's 5 classes in the game anyway.

[Karoht]

Barbarian: My favourite of the bunch, the barbarian is a HUGE improvement over the D2 specimen. Knockback effects, leap attack, shouts, ample AOE, this class just feels like a juggernaut. It's mad tough and brings the damage in a much more enjoyable, visceral way than the one-trick pony whirlwind builds from DII.

Oh and how.
Find yourself a good pair of Sickles. They're equipable at level 2. You can pretty much 1 shot everything with Bash up until you about level 4. Levels 1-10 of Barbarian are crazy fun.

Wizard: Without a doubt the most effective class in the beta, all damage, all the time is the motto. Once you unlock disintegrate, there's nothing that can withstand your untamed eldritch fury. With control moves like shockwave and frost nova, you can demolish waves of attackers without getting scratched.

I alternate between Disintegrate and Arcane Orb as my main sources of Arcane damage. I'm trying to encourage myself to like Arcane Whirlwind but it's not happening, regardless of damage potential. Still, with a good wand, Disintegrate is hard to dislike.

Witch Doctor: Despite what the Necromancer fanboys may tell you, the Witch Doctor is 1,000,000 times better than the Necro ever was. You don't have to choose anymore between tough pets and hard-hitting spells, now you get both. With 3 zombie dogs plus your follower, you are free to spam haunt and firebomb into the back ranks of the enemy, then laugh maniacally as they melt away.

Emphasis mine.
Haunt is hard to get the hang of at first, but partnered with Undead Grasp it is astonishing how much damage you can quickly do to packs, and watch Haunt jump between targets at breakneck speed. I can't wait until we get Locusts to add to that mix. And Exploding Zombie Dogs? Awesome, it just needs to pop one dog at a time IMO and it would be perfect.
And if you look at the Rune options, there's so many ways to self heal or quickly regain mana back. As in literally, in a moment's notice.

Demon Hunter: Probably the least strong of all my beta toons, the Demon Hunter is still loads of fun and can dish out immense execution, and the dual resource system makes this class my dark-horse favourite for being the most engaging in the long run. Traps keep your enemies hobbled while a fusilade of ranged attacks cut them down to size.

I like the tactical aspect, I just don't like what I see of the abilities. Amazon was the same way for me back in D2. I really wasn't having fun with my Amazon until I hit about 25 or so, and I imagine that Demon Hunter is going to work kind of the same way for me.

Monk: I only played 9 or so levels of the Monk before getting bored. This is probably a playstyle and aesthetic thing, I just felt that anything the Monk could do, the Barbarian did with 10 times as much heavy-metal viking. Still a perfectly servicable melee combatant, the difference between the Monk and Barb is largely one of tempo. Where the Barbarian hits twice, the monk hits three times. The barbarian felt better vs. packs, the monk was definitely higher damage versus a single opponent. Eh, that's why there's 5 classes in the game anyway.

I find that two monks really synergize together. Like, crazy good synergy. Not much else has that going for it in Beta so far (that 13 level cap, I shake a fist at it), other than maybe a pair of Witchdoctors. And they're actually very very tough, especially if you combo between two monks, not just individually. Due to rune options I have yet to actually decide on a monk build. I get 3 abilities in, I start toying with runes, next thing you know I've replaced one and then I start seriously rethinking the other two.
The farthest I've made it was picking 2 passives and 4 abilities, and no further.

[Karoht]

Suchimo and I were playing the Beta today.

So Suchimo? Honest thoughts of Barbarian and Witchdoctor?

[Suichimo]

First thoughts on Barbarian, definitely more effective than their Diablo 2 brethren. Bash or cleave will likely be your main attack for a while, then you burst with as many uses of your fury spenders as you can crank out. Unfortunately, the regular attacks aren't all that strong and even with two vampiric weapons and plenty of +Vit, I wasn't able to keep up in health. Oddly enough, Barbarian is the class I've come the closest to dying in. Fury is a nice resource also.

Witch Doctors are completely unique in the looks of the abilities, but they are mana hungry as hell. I was actually surprised when I was just using their original attack and found that it used mana. The Wizard has signature spells that use no Arcane Power, the Barbarian has attacks that generate(instead of use) Fury, and not sure about Monk and Demon Hunter as I haven't gotten to them yet. Why doesn't the Witch Doctor get something like that? Something to use when they've gone through their bats, unless that is what the dogs are there for. However, they are very fun to play. Summoning bats and setting them on fire while you direct them at your enemy and throwing jars of spiders at people is just entertaining.

Currently, I'd put the classes at Wizard > Barbarian > Witch Doctor.

[AgentPaper]

The Witch Doctor doesn't have any "free" attacks. Instead, you're meant to choose one (or more) of his many different forms of mana regeneration to keep yourself going. For example, you can use runes to cause many of his abilities to return mana after use, or use an ability that replaces part of the mana costs with life cost, or abilities that flat out boost mana regen, and even a passive that causes all of your spirit-based abilities to return 200% of their mana over a few seconds.

[Suichimo]

That's good to hear. I didn't find any mana drain/+mana after kill equipment in the short time I played so I was just relying on the +mana regen stuff. With better mana regen I think I'd have a better time in them. Still wouldn't surpass the Wizard, but it might go above where the Barbarian is currently.

[Karoht]

You do still get your regular attack (shanking people with your knife) but I wouldn't bother with it. Better to effectively manage your mana rather than rely on a free attack, especially one that will be underpowered (severely) at higher stages of the game.

Later in as Agent mentioned you get Runes to add to abilities, and quite a few for Witchdoctor return mana. IE-Your Zombie Dogs get one that returns half the damage they inflict, and the Witchdoctor gets half of that, every attack. There's a mana option in there as well. Corpse Spiders and Soul Harvest look to potentially be the best mana return abilities thus far.
There are several passives which help in this respect as well. Witchdoctor gets a passive where you cast a spell for 100% cost, but you regain 125% of the cost back over 10 seconds. It only applies to a certain few spells, but there it is. You also get one where you spend a small amount of life with every spell in place of the equivilant mana cost. Given the free healing options that Witchdoctor gets and the ease of regaining life VS mana, I would say that this passive will be very popular.

Seriously, I keep saying this to everyone. Go to the official page and use the skill calculator to look at all the rune effects.

And don't forget equipment/level scaling. Just through equipment there are ways to regain mana. Your items can have mana regeneration, mana per crit, and I think mana per health globe. This is before we get into Weapons with mana return on them, not sure how that will work with most Witchdoctor spells. Just about all classes will have some form of resource boosters on gear, and this is before we take +maximum [resource] into account.

I also read somewhere that vampiric actually takes that amount of health from the enemy and gives it to you, rather than it merely being generated as a biproduct of your damage as it was in D2.
Example. You deal 11 damage to the enemy. He takes 11 damage.
You deal 10 damage and drain 1 from the enemy. You heal 1 and he takes 11.
Whereas in D2, you deal 10 damage, he takes 10 damage and you heal 1.
The change is such that Vampiric items are not really a DPS loss, unless you run into something immune to it.


As for the Wizard, I kind of expect them to go back to the way it was in the early beta. The signature spells cost Arcane Power, but they cost 1 less arcane power every level. Meaning that the most expensive signature spell (electrocute) was free by about level 30, Arcane Bolt was free by something like 10 or 12. Bear in mind, when they made the change so that Sig spells were all free, they boosted the mana cost of the rest, so maybe they won't revert that.


EDIT: Video up for Witchdoctor's Locusts rune effects. It's all just visuals but it looks awesome.