Diablo III: Not Just a Vitality Race!

[faceroll]

The game itself looks promising, but the DRM mess and shift towards multiplayer... don't. It probably won't be bad enough to spoil the game for me, but still.

I got Starcraft 2. The DRM hasn't bothered me yet. I pretty much only play online though, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

[The Succubus]

I will probably get Diablo 3 but I have to admit the DRM makes me feel uncomfortable. More than that, however, was Jay Wilson's very derisive comments towards people with poor internet connections in PC Gamer and his somewhat arrogant stance about single player.

My concern is that sends a signal to gaming companies that they can treat people with contempt and get away with it because they have a must-have title. Upcoming EA releases all depend on Origins, which has some really *interesting* T&Cs hidden in the EULA. Blizzard have cheerfully axed their singleplayer market, describing them as "statistically insignificant". I'm just worried about what's going to happen next.

[Chen]

Why would you ever play a diablo game for the single player?

In terms of actual gameplay I played D2 almost exclusively single player. I still played online so I could trade, but trading was the only use I had for other players. Diablo was never that deep strategically so you didn't NEED other people to help you. The fact in D2 you had to compete on who could click fastest to loot didn't help either. With the change to loot in D3 I may consider partying with people but overall I find Diablo is just a good mindless loot grinding game. If I want to play something that requires teamwork I'll go for league of legends or starcraft or an mmo.

[Volthawk]

Anyone know how the skill/spell system works yet? Is it like Diablo 2?

Well, from what I've seen, it looks like you get a new skill each level, but there doesn't seem to be a skill tree. It seems like you get given the skill, not choosing it.

[ZeltArruin]

My friend made me all worried about the new skill/passive system, but after reading it over, I think it is pretty cool. Everything scaling to gear/level is great, and you can respec freely and damn everything just looks good.

[Morty]

Yeah, the new skill system doesn't look bad. Skill trees are gone but there's plenty of them anyway.

[Sir Dar]

I got Starcraft 2. The DRM hasn't bothered me yet. I pretty much only play online though, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

The big thing is this,about Diablo 3.You're no longer buying and owning a game.You are renting it.One way or another,if these servers go down for good,so does your game.
Diabo 3 from what is know so far.You can't pause the game in its online all the time single player mode and it will kick you out back to the main menu if you are away from the computer for more then 15 minutes.

[Leon]

The big thing is this.You no longer are buying and owning a game.You are renting it.One way or another,if these severs go down for good,so does your game.

I still occasionally play Hellgate London and am happy that it had the offline mode (never played the online part as i got the game second hand).

Never played D2 online - why would i want to play with random people on battle net. It was great Single Player and also the LAN support (which is a fast dying option these days in all games) was great for when you had some friends over or a house full of friends that you lived with to play regularly.

Being unable to pause the game... i still recall one LAN game we were playing being paused for a long time as we had a lady give birth in our driveway and went to help them.

I have other games that need to always have the Internet holding its hand and it can be mighty annoying in the those times when the connection is being problematic so i can foresee that being more of the same.

Tis a Shame - was looking forward to playing a Demon Hunter.

[Meta]

Anyone know how the skill/spell system works yet? Is it like Diablo 2?

A character starts with 2 active skill slots. As they gain levels they will unlock new active skill slots and at level 10 unlock their first passive skill slot. These max out to 6 active and 3 passive slots. Each class has about 2 dozen active skills and just over a dozen passive ones. Active skills generally scale with level and many of them are tied to weapon damage. There are no stat or skill points.

The coolest feature, imo, is the rune system. There are 5 different runes that begin dropping a little ways into the normal storyline. The lowest has a level 14 req, but the beginning levels go by fairly quickly. Each active skill you socket can be further modified by one of these colored runes: Indigo, Golden, Crimson, Alabaster, and Obsidian. These will sometimes radically alter the skill and other times add a slight variation. This might be a helpful way to understand it: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#.

Now the one thing that I mentioned that did originally dishearten me, was how all damage was tied to weapon attack. How does that make sense for a wizard! The best axes or swords in the game will have a significantly higher damage than the wands, but every wizard running around with a claymore?! Foolish indeed.

Luckily blizzard seems to have handled this very well by giving wands properties like "Adds 131-271% more damage to Wizards only." A quick glance at the math involved show that this will keeps Wands a bit behind the strongest 2-handed weapons in the game like Messerschmidt's Reaver and pretty even with the other great 1-handed weapons like Grandfather, but balancing this with other great Wizard only buffs on the weapon. Overall, the system will have to be balanced carefully, but I think this is a great way to keep a lot of oddball builds viable without overshadowing popular archetypes.

EDIT: Single player is still a very viable play style. The only mechanical advantage a group will have aside from being better off with good teamwork, is that each mobs drops loot that is visible only to 1 player. Basically, after killing a boss each player will receive a different set of drops that is invisible to the other players. That said, if you decide to drop any of those items, now anyone can use them. Very useful if you're playing with friends and your wizard is finding all the axes and their barbarian is tired of wizard hats!

EDIT 2: This may already be known, but Diablo also has a hardcore mode for those that like it. The only caveat being you can't trade gear between hardcore and non-hardcore characters. Which reminds me! Each character has a stash that holds all extra items you dont wish to sell. Fairly basic, but the best part is that any character on your account can take any item from the stash! An epic crossbow drop from Diablo while you're playing your Monk? You can sell it for gold or real money, trade it to a friend, break it down for valuable crafting parts, or keep it as a gift for your low level Demon Hunter!

[king.com]

EDIT : Nevermind

[Forbiddenwar]

On the one hand, D3 seems geared towards multiplayer (online, no pausing) but on the other hand, D3 seems exclusively single player (region locking especially SC2 type of region locking where you have to buy a different version of the game for every single one of your online friends.)

So I'm confused. I don't want to have to buy 4 copies of a $60+ game to be able to play with people on this forum.

[Chen]

The online only and no pausing just make it so they don't need a separate mode for people who wanted to be online but playing alone. In D2 you could play single player (offline) and there you could pause. But in online mode (called multiplayer but could be done single player) you just couldn't pause. Now in D2 you couldn't use single player characters with multiplayer characters. All they did was remove the Single Player option. You can still play it solo but it needs to be online. I don't think the intent is necessarily to promote multiplayer playing but rather as piracy protection. While it will turn some people off a large number of people only played D2 online (even if just to trade) and I imagine will continue to do so with D3 as well.

[Starwulf]

I can't believe no-ones(well, i haven't read second page yet, so they might have) mentioned the Trainers from Diablo 1. They allowed griefing far beyond "not dropping an item" when trading, or "Nicking gold when full". You could Town-kill people the moment they logged into a game, and keep killing them. Certain trainers could force pop your character, causing you to lose all your loot.

There, is that enough griefing for ya?

[Meta]

There will be nothing like that in Diablo III, though. All PvP will be in the arena. I understand you were addressing that towards the people debating Diablo I and II's merits compared to older MMOs, but we had just started to move beyond that

[Sholos]

I got Starcraft 2. The DRM hasn't bothered me yet. I pretty much only play online though, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

Not everyone has a perfect Internet connection that will never go down in the middle of their game. Not everyone has their own Internet connection to themselves that they won't have to share with anyone making gaming online impossible. Yes, yes, you can play other games during those times, but the point is that you shouldn't be forced to. Not with a non-MMO game.

In addition, some people do not want to be forced to be connected to the Internet just to play a game on principal, rather than practical reasons (or in addition to). The complete disregard for people who don't have spotless Internet connections doesn't help, either. Also, people don't like being told that they're playing a game the "wrong" way and that the makers are going to try to insure they play it the "right" way.

[Drascin]

In addition, some people do not want to be forced to be connected to the Internet just to play a game on principal, rather than practical reasons (or in addition to).

Pretty much. I just find the hassle annoying, especially when my router decides to act up. I tolerate Steam because iI use it to get games at a fifth (or less) of their original price - less price, worse service, you get what you pay for, I can understand that. But paying full 50€ price for a game that saddles me with such hassles? Sorry, not happening. So I didn't get SC2, and chances I'll get D3 are slim, at least until I can get them for about 10€ each.

[faceroll]

The big thing is this,about Diablo 3.You're no longer buying and owning a game.You are renting it.One way or another,if these servers go down for good,so does your game.
Diabo 3 from what is know so far.You can't pause the game in its online all the time single player mode and it will kick you out back to the main menu if you are away from the computer for more then 15 minutes.

[citation needed]

Also, I never paused Diablo 2 because I never played offline.

Not everyone has a perfect Internet connection that will never go down in the middle of their game. Not everyone has their own Internet connection to themselves that they won't have to share with anyone making gaming online impossible. Yes, yes, you can play other games during those times, but the point is that you shouldn't be forced to. Not with a non-MMO game.

In addition, some people do not want to be forced to be connected to the Internet just to play a game on principal, rather than practical reasons (or in addition to). The complete disregard for people who don't have spotless Internet connections doesn't help, either. Also, people don't like being told that they're playing a game the "wrong" way and that the makers are going to try to insure they play it the "right" way.

So, like, 5 people?

[Spartacus]

faceroll, you may not have problems with these things. You may even be in the majority, as blizzard obviously thinks. But the fact that people are complaining means that not everyone plays the same way you do. Sometimes you get called away from the computer. In a single player game, you can pause. In a multiplayer game, you just die. Given the option, I know I would prefer to pause.

[Runestar]

Has anyone been following the beta D3 replays on youtube? The wizard looks particularly cool especially electrocute. That will definitely be the first class I try when I get my paws on this game.

[Chen]

faceroll, you may not have problems with these things. You may even be in the majority, as blizzard obviously thinks. But the fact that people are complaining means that not everyone plays the same way you do. Sometimes you get called away from the computer. In a single player game, you can pause. In a multiplayer game, you just die. Given the option, I know I would prefer to pause.

Did they remove town portal scrolls/books from the game? I mean its conceivable since you get an item to sell gear in the field so its not as necessary, but if they didn't the pausing issue is pretty trivial I'd say.

The always being online thing seems like a more legitimate concern, but considering the ~10 million subscribers WoW and all the SC2 sales, its seems fairly clear they have a HUGE market of people who are willing to constantly be online to play their games. Presumably enough so that its better to use online only as DRM and lose some customers than to do it the other way and presumably lose sales to piracy.

[Sir Dar]

[citation needed]

Also, I never paused Diablo 2 because I never played offline.

That is why its not a big deal for you.And why its a big deal for others,who have not played in the same way as your self.

So, like, 5 people?

Far more then 5 people,who don't have perfect connections.

Did they remove town portal scrolls/books from the game? I mean its conceivable since you get an item to sell gear in the field so its not as necessary, but if they didn't the pausing issue is pretty trivial I'd say.

The always being online thing seems like a more legitimate concern, but considering the ~10 million subscribers WoW and all the SC2 sales, its seems fairly clear they have a HUGE market of people who are willing to constantly be online to play their games. Presumably enough so that its better to use online only as DRM and lose some customers than to do it the other way and presumably lose sales to piracy.

Its not a lost sale,if they were never going to pay for your game in the first place.And starcraft 2 did have a offline mode.Sure it didn't work for a while ,but now it does.So i have heard.

[Forbiddenwar]

Its not a lost sale,if they were never going to pay for your game in the first place.And starcraft 2 did have a offline mode.Sure it didn't work for a while ,but now it does.So i have heard.

Yes Sc2 has an offline mode. And it was vital for playing the campaign when the servers suddenly dropped (which was often for the first 6 months) If Diablo stays online only, delaying purchase until the servers are stable (6 months minimum, year likely) seems reasonable.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Two flies mar this ointment...

1) Always Online. If I want to play a free MMO, I've got a dozen options. This isn't 2004, this is 2011, in case you missed the date. D1 has no MMO competition. D2 had some, but none free that was worth playing. But that niche has been flooded, and provides stiff competition for D3.

I played D1 exclusively offline. I played D2 almost exclusively offline. I have no interest in playing D3 online. I've got three different free MMO's I can play if I want to do that. D2 was a fun single-player game. They've completely removed that for D3.

The inability to pause makes this completely unappealing. I'm sorry, if someone knocks at my door, and I'm in the middle of a boss battle, do I ignore that person at the door or do I let my character die? Sorry, that stinks.

2) Real Life Transactions. Full stop. Just... no. Why? Simple. If you want to get phat loots, you've basically got three options: 1) spend hours and grind them yourself, 2) hack and dupe items, 3) find someone who has spent hours and gotten the items, and grief them.

Option 1 is unappealing to most people wanting to make a quick buck. Option 2 is basically getting paid to hack. They never could remove duped items from D2 online play, I fail to see how they could get any better at it for D3. Option 3 is the dangerous one, though. Particularly when you've got people who are after money first and foremost. If you can scam enough people and sell their stuff and get more cash than it would cost to purchase a copy of the game, then you've made a profit, even if the account gets banned. Then you just go and buy another copy, with a new username, and a new BlizzardID. Rinse, wash, repeat.

The current method that D3 uses combines the WORST of both MMO and Hack n Slash games.

It's pretty, it's got some interesting ideas, but until these two issues are addressed, they aren't getting my money.

[Spiryt]

Two flies mar this ointment...

1) Always Online. If I want to play a free MMO, I've got a dozen options. This isn't 2004, this is 2011, in case you missed the date. D1 has no MMO competition. D2 had some, but none free that was worth playing. But that niche has been flooded, and provides stiff competition for D3.

I played D1 exclusively offline. I played D2 almost exclusively offline. I have no interest in playing D3 online. I've got three different free MMO's I can play if I want to do that. D2 was a fun single-player game. They've completely removed that for D3.

The inability to pause makes this completely unappealing. I'm sorry, if someone knocks at my door, and I'm in the middle of a boss battle, do I ignore that person at the door or do I let my character die? Sorry, that stinks.

2) Real Life Transactions. Full stop. Just... no. Why? Simple. If you want to get phat loots, you've basically got three options: 1) spend hours and grind them yourself, 2) hack and dupe items, 3) find someone who has spent hours and gotten the items, and grief them.

Not much to add really.

I like to play stuff, minimize it, and go Internet something, or just go play with dog for a hell of it. So, no, because no?

Or I go to a place, with * gasp * NO INTERNET. I can't play too?

Seems that they've gone full "emaciated victims cannot escape" route.

[Spartacus]

3) find someone who has spent hours and gotten the items, and grief them.

Just pointing out that while it won't stop people scamming others, Blizzard is making all loot drop individually. If a monster drops that nice Stone of Jordan for you, nobody can pick it up before you. Perhaps there is a time limit, like if you leave it on the ground for 300 seconds or something, it becomes free game, but loot is all individual.

[raymundo]

Presumably enough so that its better to use online only as DRM and lose some customers than to do it the other way and presumably lose sales to piracy.

Except that DRM only bothers those who bought the game, people piracying it will just wait until it is cracked and play it offline. Every DRM is going to be cracked, especially always-online-DRMs.. partly because they are so very annoying. At the end of the day, you just scared away a bunch of legitimate buyers.

[Tengu_temp]

1) Always Online. If I want to play a free MMO, I've got a dozen options. This isn't 2004, this is 2011, in case you missed the date. D1 has no MMO competition. D2 had some, but none free that was worth playing. But that niche has been flooded, and provides stiff competition for D3.

You know you can just play the game alone, right? Nobody forces you to play it with other players if you don't want to. Lack of pause sucks, but who knows, maybe it will be available in single player mode.

2) Real Life Transactions. Full stop. Just... no. Why? Simple. If you want to get phat loots, you've basically got three options: 1) spend hours and grind them yourself, 2) hack and dupe items, 3) find someone who has spent hours and gotten the items, and grief them.

Honestly, the only problem I have with this is that it makes the job for professional gold farmers easier - I hope Blizzard will find other ways to find them. Buying and selling items for real currency is not that different from buying and selling them for in-game gold, and you don't need to participate in this if you don't want to.

[Chen]

2) Real Life Transactions. Full stop. Just... no. Why? Simple. If you want to get phat loots, you've basically got three options: 1) spend hours and grind them yourself, 2) hack and dupe items, 3) find someone who has spent hours and gotten the items, and grief them.

Option 1 is unappealing to most people wanting to make a quick buck. Option 2 is basically getting paid to hack. They never could remove duped items from D2 online play, I fail to see how they could get any better at it for D3. Option 3 is the dangerous one, though. Particularly when you've got people who are after money first and foremost. If you can scam enough people and sell their stuff and get more cash than it would cost to purchase a copy of the game, then you've made a profit, even if the account gets banned. Then you just go and buy another copy, with a new username, and a new BlizzardID. Rinse, wash, repeat.

The current method that D3 uses combines the WORST of both MMO and Hack n Slash games.

I'm confused as to what you're saying here. Is it that all of these things will be worse with a real money AH? Because clearly all the above mentioned things happen with or without the real money involvement. Remember too, that people actually have to want to pay real money for these items. If duping is rampant no one is going to spend money on a market flooded with duped goods. Scamming can only really occur when trading with another player. Sure people will do it, but I don't see what this has to do with the real money aspect since people did this in D2 and in WoW and in almost every other online RPG.

I suspect hacks and the like will also be less prevalent if everything is forced to be online. Blizzard has done a fairly good job at keeping duping and the like to a minimum in WoW and they tend to crackdown on it fairly fast. I don't see any reason why the loot mechanics can't heavily borrow from the WoW code in this manner.

[Starwulf]

That is why its not a big deal for you.And why its a big deal for others,who have not played in the same way as your self.

Far more then 5 people,who don't have perfect connections.


Its not a lost sale,if they were never going to pay for your game in the first place.And starcraft 2 did have a offline mode.Sure it didn't work for a while ,but now it does.So i have heard.

You're barking up the wrong tree arguing with Faceroll. In every single thread concerning diablo 3, anytime someone complains about it and mentions internet connections, he's been entirely unsympathetic, and, as you can see, even going so far as to troll us in his own special way. I've come to completely ignore him when it comes to this type of thread. ^^ he obviously lives in some fantasy world where everyone has a perfect internet in all the world, and refuses to come out of it and see that even in the U.S. there are millions of people who don't have good options for internet. Hell, I only live 8 miles from the nearest town, but there is absolutely no decent internet for anyone where I live, dial-up is literally the only option, and that encompasses about 500 people or so who live on the mountain.

[Meta]

As some other posters have touched on, I feel it is unfair to complain about illegal piracy, duping, etc. in the same breath one complains about DRM. One is being done to avoid the other, and while I do empathize with those unable to play online, I would rather lose 50,000 players or whatever number will actually stick to their guns and not purchase it, so that the rest of the players will have a much less rampantly cheat-heavy environment. EDIT: Possibly avoiding and quashing any cheating whatsoever!

I think I understand why the no pause rule is there, but it should be lifted in single player, I agree. Perhaps, it already is, I don't know.