DC Reboot again

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, I have now actually bought all the ones I am interested in except Suicide Squad (because I want to see if the new characterization of Harley is as awful as her new costume). Not bad, actually.

Batgirl:

Okay, so in this new continuum Barbara was paralyzed for three years, and then spontaneously started to heal. I guess I can buy that; odd things happens IRL too. She still has a trauma about being shot though, and doesn't react well to having a gun pointed at her.

Not the best situation when you try to reclaim your superhero career.

I am still pissed about them removing Stephanie Brown, but this is very good. 4/5.

Birds of Prey:

Not sure what to think here. I loved the old lineup, and as far as I can tell only Black Canary is left of that one. I don't know enough about these other women yet to have an opinion but I will stay with it for a while.

I REALLY miss Lady Blackhawk. Let's face it, she is basically Fem!Shep.

2/5 but given another try or two.

Wonder Woman:

The art is wonderful. The story... In Medias Res, and not from Diana's perspective. We are jumping right into Greek Pantheon Politics that will affect earth directly. No slow intro here; it seems Zeus is back to his old-school tricks and will cause a ruckus for everyone.

4/5.

Red Hood and the Outlaws:

Again, not sure what to make of this one. I mainly bought it because of impulse (not Impulse, but... you know what I mean); I haven't read anything with a Teen Titan member in it since the 80ies and a lot of people complained about how they treated Starfire in it.

I have no real opinion of her (I haven't followed her character developement since well, she was sold into slavery to begin with) except that I admit to be slightly disappointed she was wearing a bikini in the pool. Canon has more or less established her as a nudist by heart so...

Anyway, 2/5 but will get at least one more issue before making my mind up.

Supergirl:

This is... really good. Surprisingly good, even. A complete restart and we get to see a Kryptonian experiencing yellow sunlight for the first time.

5/5.

Voodoo:

Wait a minute. Voodoo, my least favorite WILDCAT gets a title of her own in the main DC universe. Why not someone interesting?

A lot of fanservice, which is to be expected with this character.
Then some more fanservice. Finally some fanDIService and then a twist ending.

...1/5.

Not buying that one again.

[hamlet]

I have the new Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern.

Not terrible. Thinking of dropping Green Lantern entirely, even after only one issue. It just kind of reaffirms that this isn't really quite my style of comic, but since I paid for 12 issues up front, I might as well see what twelve issues gets me.

Superman was . . . interesting. Went virtually nowhere except with a plot element that was impossible to understand unless I had been reading another comic, which is enough to incense me. Still, "superman fights great big monster and wins" seems . . . unfulfilling.

Batman, though, was a rather pleasant surprise. Nice setup . . . sorta. Intro to a nice detective style story line, which I'm looking forward to rather than the overused "Batman is the baddest badass in all the world" stories.

Insanely dissapointed, though in retrospect unreasonably, that the "New #1's" aren't entirely new starts to the comics, just restarting the numbering sequence at the start of new story lines. Don't know why this dissapoints me as I should have expected it, but seriously, it's kind of a jerk bait and switch move on the part of DC. Would have been nice to know who the three young folks with Batman were beyond the info dump via contact lens thing.

In the end, depending on how things pan out, I'm probably dropping all but Batman and sticking with it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Insanely dissapointed, though in retrospect unreasonably, that the "New #1's" aren't entirely new starts to the comics, just restarting the numbering sequence at the start of new story lines. Don't know why this dissapoints me as I should have expected it, but seriously, it's kind of a jerk bait and switch move on the part of DC. Would have been nice to know who the three young folks with Batman were beyond the info dump via contact lens thing.

But that's the point and the main problem with this thing I have had from the beginning: SOME of the comics are total reboots (Supergirl is a COMPLETE reboot*. Batgirl is a reboot, but acknowledges the events of the Killing Joke in the backstory) and then you have others that don't reboot their continuity.

How DC will make sense of that I have no idea.

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She crashes to earth "on her way to a party" (she has been unconcious for a LONG time and don't know Krypton is gone, apparently).

She wakes up in the mountains, and realizes it is not Krypton because of the snow, something she has not seen since she was a very little kid (due to weather control or global warming I don't know). Then she gets into a fight with what she thinks are robots (security forces in power armor) and realize they speak a langue she doesn't understand (English), and barely holds her own until dawn when she gets terrified. The sun... is WRONG (yellow, not red, something she has never seen) and then her body starts... changing, freaking her out.

[Traab]

Im mainly upset with starfire, but thats just because I never read any comics, just saw the cartoon teen titans show. So it was a bit of a surprise to see her go from young teen looking all big eyed and innocent, to young adult swimsuit model near nympho who greatly enjoys showing off every bit of skin she can without going naked in every panel.

What I want to know is, are there any PLAIN looking super heroines? The only ones I ever see are either gorgeous supermodels, or fugly morlocks, and the fugly ones are fairly rare. There never seems to be a plain looking girl in regards to physical attractiveness. Instead they all seem to have jaw dropping sexiness as a super power in addition to whatever else they can do. I know its a marketing thing, but id seriously like to see a new female super hero take the stage and look like a regular person. Maybe give us a chance to step away from the bodypaint hero costumes.

[Mutant Sheep]

Spoiler

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She crashes to earth "on her way to a party" (she has been unconcious for a LONG time and don't know Krypton is gone, apparently).

She wakes up in the mountains, and realizes it is not Krypton because of the snow, something she has not seen since she was a very little kid (due to weather control or global warming I don't know). Then she gets into a fight with what she thinks are robots (security forces in power armor) and realize they speak a langue she doesn't understand (English), and barely holds her own until dawn when she gets terrified. The sun... is WRONG (yellow, not red, something she has never seen) and then her body starts... changing, freaking her out.

That sounds... really good. I might have to start... BUYING comic books!

[Avilan the Grey]

Im mainly upset with starfire, but thats just because I never read any comics, just saw the cartoon teen titans show. So it was a bit of a surprise to see her go from young teen looking all big eyed and innocent, to young adult swimsuit model near nympho who greatly enjoys showing off every bit of skin she can without going naked in every panel.

What I want to know is, are there any PLAIN looking super heroines?

Starfire in the comics has always been looking like this. She also is... naked a lot because on her planet there is no nudity taboo and she repeatedly forgets to wear bathing suits, or walks around after showers all over the headquarters in the buff. That's why I said I was a little disappointed in her wearing the bikini; it would be a "character establishing moment" if she was skinnydipping.

Talking about Teen Titans: Heads up btw, Raven is no little girl either. She's in her twenties and not someone you want angry.

Anyway... Yes there are. Try DCs Terra, although she is a sidekick, or Stephanie Brown as Batgirl... Heck Supergirl is very average, body wise, unlike her Sister / cousin / twin self from another place and time, Power Girl.

In Marvel, see Spider Girl, Kitty Pryde, Jubilee...

That sounds... really good. I might have to start... BUYING comic books!

The Batgirl first issue is equally good.

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Basically Barbara fails to stop the murder of a cop in a sickbed because the badguy points a gun at her while killing him and all she can do is freeze in terror, reliving the moment when the Joker shot her. When she undfreezes, the badguy has pushed the cop (bed and all) through the window to his death.

The first issue ends with the other police on the site almost shooting her for not stopping the murder of her friend.

[Traab]

All of them I would say are pretty, if not total knock outs. Of course, the only supergirl im familiar with is justice league unlimited cartoon supergirl, and she is pretty damn well stacked. Kitty and jubillee I always felt were pretty, though jubs at the time I remember her was fairly young and had a crush on wolverine or something. (sort of like rogue from the xmen movies) So my knowledge is definately out of date. I havent been a regular comic reader in a long time.

Starfire, once again, is mainly because I never read the comics and only watched the made for kids cartoons. So no real effort made to show her nudist tendencies. As far as I knew, her character was one of innocence, cuteness, and glowing green eyes when angry. :p Imagine my shock to see her new outfit, and some of her dialogue. But apparently thats not as big of a change as I thought if she was similar to that in the comics before hand.

[hamlet]

You know, based on the above, I'm kind of bothered that I didn't grab a subscription to Teen Titans.

But that officially makes me a dirty old man, I think.

[comicshorse]

All of them I would say are pretty, if not total knock outs. Of course, the only supergirl im familiar with is justice league unlimited cartoon supergirl, and she is pretty damn well stacked. Kitty and jubillee I always felt were pretty, though jubs at the time I remember her was fairly young and had a crush on wolverine or something. (sort of like rogue from the xmen movies) So my knowledge is definately out of date. I havent been a regular comic reader in a long time.

And just to add to this they've made Amanda 'The Wall' Waller (one of favourite supoporting characters) young, pretty and thin. 'Cause obviously she can't be worth showing unless she's all of these

I picked up 'Red Lantern' which seems interesting. I'm not sure how long a character so dedicated to violence will stay interesting but I'm buying it for now.

[Traab]

You know, based on the above, I'm kind of bothered that I didn't grab a subscription to Teen Titans.

But that officially makes me a dirty old man, I think.

Or a 12 year old boy.

[hamlet]

Or a 12 year old boy.

Being as I've been on this plant for 30 years . . . I think the former actually. Though admittedly with very simplistic tastes.

[mootoall]

The new The Question is a pretty "plain" looking woman. Even before she had no face she was closer to "just kinda pretty."

[Thialfi]

Or a 12 year old boy.

All men are 12 year old boys at heart (especially where attractive females are concerned). We just get better at hiding that as we age.

[Fallen Angel]

It sounds like characters and everything else is being pushed to the social 'right' just to appease consumers.

[Connington]

I admit I don't read comics, but I've heard an awful lot about the changes DC is making in the reboot, specifically to female characters. Frankly, it sounds pretty stupid. Not every woman in comics needs to look and act like an over-sexed super model.

[Avilan the Grey]

All of them I would say are pretty, if not total knock outs. Of course, the only supergirl im familiar with is justice league unlimited cartoon supergirl,

Well it seems to vary not only between artist and artist, but reincarnation. This version (the new#1 issue) has a very girl-next-door supergirl. So was the last one, the one that was best friends with Stephanie Brown. She was tall, but not busty.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yeah, Amanda Waller in... say.. Young Justice, I think, is a really good way to do her. A saw a picture of her in the reboot and... WHO? THIS is a better Waller, and she's overly detailed and clueless! (Warning: Link has repulsive content.)
I couldn't recognize Starfire at all in that movie though. She looked... like a Furie. (Has she been mindslaved into that yet? I'm REALLY hoping it happens.)

[H Birchgrove]

The new The Question is a pretty "plain" looking woman. Even before she had no face she was closer to "just kinda pretty."

Renee Montoya? I thought she looked attractive in Batman: TAS, but yeah, she's not a supermodel. Then again, "plain" looking women are usually "better" looking women for me, compared to supermodels. *shrugs*

All men are 12 year old boys at heart (especially where attractive females are concerned). We just get better at hiding that as we age.

If that was true I would be asexual today.

Yeah, Amanda Waller in... say.. Young Justice, I think, is a really good way to do her. A saw a picture of her in the reboot and... WHO? THIS is a better Waller, and she's overly detailed and clueless! (Warning: Link has repulsive content.)
I couldn't recognize Starfire at all in that movie though. She looked... like a Furie. (Has she been mindslaved into that yet? I'm REALLY hoping it happens.)

It's some time ago since I read the original Suicide Squad and Legends, but as far as I re-call, she wasn't that obese... I think some would call her voluptuous, and what would be wrong with that?

[comicshorse]

Suicide Squad[/I] and Legends, but as far as I re-call, she wasn't that obese... I think some would call her voluptuous, and what would be wrong with that?

I was a huge fan of the Ostrander 'Suicide Squad' and while not quite that obese (or square) Waller was always very chunky and in her 40's

[H Birchgrove]

I did some googling and I see you're right.

Also found out that Amanda Waller has been played live action by Pam Grier and Angela Basset... Neither being overweight as far as I can see, or wearing a fake belly like David Suchet in Agatha Christie's Poirot. Maybe this has influenced the re-make of her in the comics?

[Mutant Sheep]

It's some time ago since I read the original Suicide Squad and Legends, but as far as I re-call, she wasn't that obese... I think some would call her voluptuous, and what would be wrong with that?

Yeah, I thought she was a bit overly done. The Young Justice one, in my opinion, is the best I've seen, especially since

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She doesn't seem to be working with the bad guys for the first time in the DCAU! Oh, and not overly obese like Superman/Batman :Public Enemies, which creeped me out because AUGH THE DETAIL BAD ><. JLU Waller is the one I'm most familiar with and what I think she should generally look like.

What IS comic Starfire's story now anyway?

[Connington]

I did some googling and I see you're right.

Also found out that Amanda Waller has been played live action by Pam Grier and Angela Basset... Neither being overweight as far as I can see, or wearing a fake belly like David Suchet in Agatha Christie's Poirot. Maybe this has influenced the re-make of her in the comics?

I doubt it. Angela Basset in particular might be rather svelte, but both of the live action actors to recently portray Waller are comfortably in their fifties, and managed to get through their appearances without prominently displaying their cleavage. Anyways, Google Images seems to suggest that the most popular interpretation of Waller is Justice League Unlimited's, which is positively square.

This just fits in with the way DC has been poorly handling its portrayal of women in the reboot. Amanda Waller has to be a knockout, Barbara Gordon has to loose decades of characterization and regain the use of her legs, Starfire has to lose the boring parts of her character (friendliness, humor, emotions in general), and Catwoman has to be introduced in her underwear.

[Traab]

What IS comic Starfire's story now anyway?

As superman is powered by the sun, starfire is powered by sex. Lots and lots of sex. Generally with equally attractive women. Ok, not really, but with a fan service style costume like that, I wouldnt be surprised.

[Yanagi]

Both of Lemire's titles--Animal Man and Frankenstein--seem promising, as does Flash and Wonder Woman. I 100% endorse Animal Man's first issue.

Aquaman had a good sense of humor in the first issue, and if it can maintain a serious/whimsical mix could be entertaining. If it goes all "Aquaman is super serious and you shouldn't tease because he's seen stuff. And things." I'll tune out. (Though I have an out-of-the-box theory that Mike Mignola could do awesome things with Aquaman)

I really liked the art on Batwoman's miniseries, so I'll see how the regular goes. OMAC's art is neat and Kirby -esque, but I don't know if that will be sufficient to follow it.

[Avilan the Grey]

You know, based on the above, I'm kind of bothered that I didn't grab a subscription to Teen Titans.

But that officially makes me a dirty old man, I think.

Starfire is not a member of Teen Titans anymore; thanks to the reboot she is now a member of Red Hood and the Outlaws. She still is sleeping with ex-Robin though.

It sounds like characters and everything else is being pushed to the social 'right' just to appease consumers.

The problem here (if there is, indeed a problem) is that the Teen Titans TV Cartoon have had more impact on the non-comic reading audience than the original comic book, for obvious reasons. So they think the changes made to be able to show the cartoon for little kids are actually the original look for the characters.

(It is worth noting that the cartoon basically took 5 years off everyone. Robin in the cartoon looks like he's twelve, and so does Startfire).

This is Starfire in the comics.

[Mutant Sheep]

This is Starfire in the comics.

She looks like a bad Green Lantern Villain who was thrown out of the Yellow Lantern Corp for being too stupid.

[Avilan the Grey]

She looks like a bad Green Lantern Villain who was thrown out of the Yellow Lantern Corp for being too stupid.

That has more to do with the bad art that was yesteryear. For some reason they always drew her really ugly in the 80ies, but they did that with all females (both Marvel and DC).

[Traab]

That big hair of hers reminds me of she hulk too be honest.

[Aotrs Commander]

In Marvel, see Spider Girl, Kitty Pryde, Jubilee...

DUUUUUDE.

...

You did not just call Jubilee plain.

I suppose Kitty too. ... Meh, Colossus can handle that one.

Them's setting internal organs on fire, no wait, not bad enough - orbital bombarmenting¹ words!

And I'm totally telling Wolverine you said that!



¹Other people might say "fighting", but I try not to fight where possbile, since using unecessarily overwhelmingly powerful force that obviates resistance is so much more satifying (and doesn't really qualify as "fighting" more "massecreing"). And safer, because you don't get to be my level without being careful paranoid...

[TheEmerged]

So far, the #2 issues I'm most looking forward to are Aquaman and JLI. It's going to be interesting to see if they keep some of the subtext to Booster Gold's character in the New52 universe. I won't be surprised if we find out "Godiva" is actually his sister.

Aquaman is just the best written of the new ones I've read (which is less than half). I have a suspicion that like Green Lantern and Batman we're going to find out this one is happening in Old52 Universe.

WW the jury is still out on. I'm surprised at the way people are complaining about Starfire compared to this, actually.

I think I'm going to like the way they're splitting Action vs Superman into two time periods, if they keep that up. But I want Action back to its previous numbering, period.