What Spell should Malack use to open the fight?

[Ancalagon]

I think it's fairly safe to assume Malak will whack away at Nale, given their history and given how he reacted to Elan.

What spell would be the best choice to open the fight vs. Nale and Sabine? This of course depends on your estimate if Malak has access to level 7, level 8 or level 9 spells.
We know he can cast Blade Barrier (Level 6) which means he is at least Level 11, but as he can help Durkon Develop his spell (Mass Death Ward) and has been accompanying Tarquin (who seems to be pretty high level) for quite a while, I assume Malak is at least Durkon's Level (15ish) if not higher. So I assume he also has access to Level 7 or even Level 8 spells (Level 9 does not seem impossible, but we have no evidence he is that powerful).

Let us also not discuss what spell would likely be memorized and which not, as Malak should go in this for him climatic situation (it's the conclusion of Malak's own story, it seems) for the most coolest option.
I also think he only cares marginally for Sabine, Nale is his priority.

So what Spell should Malak start with to make the biggest impression given your personal choice of what he has available?

My estimates here are:
If he has access to level 9 spells, Storm of Vengeance would be a fitting choice, but has he'd catch Durkon (and Elan) as well, this is not likely. Gate would even the odds, but the biggest boom would probably be Implosion.

If he caps at Level 8, there are more good options. I'd for a summoned creature to divide Nale's and Sabine's attention, but that does not keep them from fleeing.
This and the other options (as well as a choice from a lower-level spell list) surely should be discussed, as non seems to be the "obvious winning/coolest choice".

[Ellye]

Energy Drain would be ironic.

Unfortunately I'm afraid that his selection of offensive spells will prove to be a bit too much in the evil side of the spell list, and that our conservative dwarf Durkon might be unpleased. I hope this becomes character development for Durkon as he learns to accept it.

[Gullintanni]

Dictum. Sabine would be banished to the Abyss for 24 hours (save at -4). That would leave him free to wreak bloody havoc all over Nale.

[pendell]

Since Nale's very first action is likely to be enervation, Malack must target Nale first. Something that will incapacitate him and make him unable to use Enervation.

...

Would that be energy drain?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ancalagon]

Dictum sounds like a solid choice. Energy Drain would be nice, but as it's level 9 and somewhat Xykon's "signature spell", I think it's unlikely this happens.

But Banishment or Dictum seem to be valid, yet have the problem it comes down to a safe or "die" for Sabine.

[whitelaughter]

The obvious choice is Destruction - a probable outright kill, failing that large amounts of damage. Hasn't Malak let slip that he's got Death? Slay Living is lower level, if needed (although Durkon wouldn't be as smug unless he thought Malak was tough).

If he doesn't have any decent combat spells memorised, a spontaneously cast Inflict, possibly Enhanced.

Anti-Magic Shield: That prevents either Sabine or Nale escaping, and a pair of clerics should have no problems dismantling them once magic is removed from the equation. The only problem is that this 'shtick' belongs to mama black dragon, so repetitive.

If Malak is LN, then he could Summon a Leonal, and have it roar: that would Banish Sabine and stun Nale, allowing his easy capture/execution. (Hmm, actually might not Banish Sabine, as the Leonal won't be on it's home plane).

Since Nale's very first action is likely to be enervation, Malack must target Nale first. .

Assuming that a) Nale still has any castings remaining, (unknown but possible) and b) that Malak has seen any of the fight to this point (unlikely).

[zimmerwald1915]

Hasn't Malak let slip that he's got Death?

Not explicitly, no. What he has said is that Nergal, his patron, has Death and Destruction among his portfolios, and can presumably grant those domains.

EDIT: actually, if Malack has the Death Domain, he could open up with a death touch dealing (cleric level)d6 as a death effect on Nale. He's certainly close enough.

[Fitzclowningham]

Drama-wise, there's very little chance Malack will kill Nale outright, whether he tries to or not. It would be interesting to see Sabine removed from the scene, though.

[Douglas]

Assuming that a) Nale still has any castings remaining, (unknown but possible)

He's using a wand, not casting it himself. He's probably got dozens of Enervations left.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Could be something along the lines of Inflict Wounds. Would make for good drama and won't likely kill Nale, just make him retreat.

[Story Time]

What could be used to destroy the item Nale is carrying? The wand / scepter.

[ThePhantasm]

Durkon knows Malack is evil. Everyone keeps saying Durkon will be unpleased once Malack starts the fight, but he seems pretty pleased that Malack has shown up. If Durkon can take Belkar's methods in stride, surely he can do the same for Malack.

[zimmerwald1915]

Durkon knows Malack is evil.

How? Has Malack told Durkon that he is Evil? Has Durkon cast Detect Alignment on Malack? If the answer to either question is "yes", then when? Certainly not in any panel of any comic that has currently been uploaded to the web.

What Durkon knows is that Malack's got his clawmarks all over the Empire of Blood, whose bad acts that Durkon knows about include imprisoning his friends and making them fight in gladitorial games, and having slaves serve the flesh of sentient beings at state dinners. That may say something about Malack's alignment, but what it says more about is his character. This is a man who is not really willing to go up against Tarquin. Whether that's because he is fundamentally a follower, because he doesn't want to cross his friend, because he doesn't want to jeapordize his lifestyle, or because he is evil is, as far as we know, up in the air.

[Ancalagon]

Please do not derail too quickly, but we do know that Durkon is pretty bad at concluding from the deity to the cleric's alignment (Loki -> Hilgya).

In regard to anti magic field, I assumed that as well as valid option, but it is way, way too small to be of use here. Nale could leave too easily (and he is not only relying on magic) and Sabine - being airborne - could leave even quicker.

[pendell]

Death Ward is Necromantic, isn't it? If so, that would probably be a good starting point for Malack, since it protects him from Nale's wand and Sabine's energy draining touch.

Second round is Dictum on Sabine. Third and subsequent rounds see Elan and Malack double-teaming Nale until he is dead.

Would that work?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Steward]

I think Dictum would be a great test. I don't think that Malack would execute Nale -- his friend's son -- without at least a token attempt at taking him prisoner. He might try Hold Person or another spell that will paralyze Nale.

[FujinAkari]

Hold Person, take Nale down... slowly...

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Dictum would be a great test. I don't think that Malack would execute Nale -- his friend's son -- without at least a token attempt at taking him prisoner. He might try Hold Person or another spell that will paralyze Nale.

He already tried to feed Not-Nale to the Empress without notifying Tarquin (it was Kilkil who sent him to the throne room).

[Andre]

Durkon knows Malack is evil. Everyone keeps saying Durkon will be unpleased once Malack starts the fight, but he seems pretty pleased that Malack has shown up. If Durkon can take Belkar's methods in stride, surely he can do the same for Malack.

You know, it's a common misconception that Death and his clerics would be considered Evil. If anything, Neutrality suits them better.

Then again, he can be Evil aligned for all we care but the point is that Durkon doesn't know.

[Dr. Gamera]

Has Malack told Durkon that he is Evil?

Something of the opposite, in fact: "You know, neither gods of Death nor their clerics are necessarily Evil. That's a common misconception."

[Ancalagon]

Would it not be awesome if Malak could already whip out Durkon's Mass Death Ward? He currently helped him create it, so that does not seem that unlikely. It was also nicely contrast Durkon's failed casting of that spell we saw a moment ago and it'd be a blast into the energy draining Nale and Sabine just have used very, very successfully.

But Pendell as a good point: as long as Nale whips around with his wand as he currently does, there's a massive risk.

I am not sure on Dictum, as it has a save. But it is surely a very good idea and it would probably catch her by surprise. Drained-Elan, Drained-Durkon and Undrained Malak should probably be able to handle Nale.
Malak could also try to cast (Lesser) Restoration on Elan or Durkon. That might not be that stupid as he cannot know how many levels they lost and if they are "still useful" (lost five or less than five levels) or "completely useless" (more than five levels).

That of course disables him for two rounds and if Nale gets what is going to happen, he'll attempt to flee even faster than ASAP. In fact, even if he does go for Sabine with Dictum/Banisment, Nale still has two rounds to jump over the balcony or do anything else that gets his shiny face out of this final situation.

(In regard to story: Nale dieing here and Sabine being leftover to enact revenge on Malak/the order until the last gate would be a nice turn of story and use for the LG: Deafeated, but not entirely; Sabine then would screw up the IFCCs plans in the end because she thinks her revenge for her fallen love is worth more than her loyalty (and thus her life). I like this theory.)

edit & PS: It seems very, very unlikely Malak teams up with a horribly evil person as Tarquin and takes part in a scheme as they do without being evil himself. Take into account they were a team before they had the chance to "bring peace". Malak must be evil. But please make your own thread if you want to discuss that at length instead of derailing this before it is four or five pages long.

[Gullintanni]

Death Ward is Necromantic, isn't it? If so, that would probably be a good starting point for Malack, since it protects him from Nale's wand and Sabine's energy draining touch.

Second round is Dictum on Sabine. Third and subsequent rounds see Elan and Malack double-teaming Nale until he is dead.

Would that work?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think Dictum would be a great test. I don't think that Malack would execute Nale -- his friend's son -- without at least a token attempt at taking him prisoner. He might try Hold Person or another spell that will paralyze Nale.

Dictum would be my first round call. Because if Sabine saves, she's still slowed, deafened and possibly paralyzed depending on how powerful Malack really is. On a failed save, she disappears from the fight entirely and leaves Malack alone to deal with Nale one on one.

A failed save also results in a useful plot deviation...that is, Sabine is out of the fight. One less member of the LG to clutter up the storyline. That leaves just Nale. I'm fairly confident that Sabine + Nale will survive this encounter. I sit in the, "we'll see the LG one more time before the comic ends" camp. Accordingly, non-lethal victories make sense to me.

Also, there's no sense using Dictum once Nale is dead. The point, IMHO, of casting Dictum on round 1 is to eliminate Sabine as a factor in combat, meaning Nale has to fight to survive all by himself. It's the tactically smart maneuver.

My 2 cp. Take it or leave it.

Edit: Death Ward would work, but I'm not sure Malack's going to spend his first turn on the defensive.

[Steward]

Something of the opposite, in fact: "You know, neither gods of Death nor their clerics are necessarily Evil. That's a common misconception."

Regardless of Malack's actual alignment, I don't think that Durkon would be angry with him for using Necromancy spells to save them (or spells from the domains 'Death' and 'Destruction'). The only exceptions that I can think of in the latter two cases are the spells 'Contagion', 'Death Knell', and the spells that create undead, and I don't see Malack using those in this fight when he has better ones in his arsenal.

(Hey, what if he doesn't use any spells at all, and just knocks Sabine and Nale off of the balcony in a fit of pique?)

[Ancalagon]

Edit: Death Ward would work, but I'm not sure Malack's going to spend his first turn on the defensive.

That is a good point but if he is going to use it, it only makes sense in the first round (for example, when Sabine still needs to reach him) or not at all (unless it is an emergency because he already lost levels).

[tyckspoon]

Only problem with Dictum: It'll hit Elan. And it'll hit him harder, because of the negative levels Sabine put on him. The CL-5 band that causes paralyze is unlikely, but possible since there's no way to know what Malak's caster level is.

[leakingpen]

well, I expect him to try and CAPTURE nale.

[Ancalagon]

Ah, good point. Banishment it is, then. Or Malak waits with Dictum until Sabine has started to attack (or is othervise a bit away from Elan).

Not stupid would also be a Break Enchantment to get just another Ally back into the mix (and Haley with a bow could be good vs. a flying target). But that should probably not the fight-opener.

well, I expect him to try and CAPTURE nale.

Last time he only tried to do something "official" because Nale was already captured. As soon as he had Nale, he tried to get him executed in a very direct way. If it comes to a fight, I doubt he'll risk anything - and that usually means lethal force over non-lethal force.
Should Nale fall over and be unconscious, well, fine, then he gets captured (and eaten). But if not, I doubt Malak will restrain himself from casting/hitting him to -10 and beyond.

[Aurenthal]

Hold Person against Sabine. Then Durkon Hold Person against Nale.

The LG is neutralized, except for "Durkon´s opposite"(if there is one)

[Quakes]

Repulsion or Symbol of Stunning would both be solid choices.

Hold Person would not function against Sabine, as she is not humanoid.

[Gullintanni]

Only problem with Dictum: It'll hit Elan. And it'll hit him harder, because of the negative levels Sabine put on him. The CL-5 band that causes paralyze is unlikely, but possible since there's no way to know what Malak's caster level is.

If I was Malack, this sure wouldn't stop me. Especially given how useless Elan will be anyway, given all the negative levels.

Break Enchantment would be solid though. And if Malack is going to use Death Ward, you're right that it'll probably be first round. DMM Quicken? Unlikely, but it'd sure be awesome. Given the general competence of Tarquin et. al., Malack is the one person I'd expect to see non-core powergaming from.