The Index of the Giant's Comments

[Sylthia]

Remove none, keep all.

[M.A.D]

My vote goes to Keep All.

[Jasdoif]

Only 7. Rich's reading history seems to have nothing meaningful to say about any element of the strip.

Can I say that I disagree here. Listing books, movies, TV shows that have influenced his writing, maybe been deliberately referenced, is certainly relevant. Stating that he hasn't read a particular author, and has not been influenced is part of this.

The lack of influence is why it isn't meaningful, though. The works of Pratchett don't affect the comic one way or the other, because affecting the comic at all would mean they have influence. Noting that every panel of every comic is uninfluenced...doesn't say anything meaningful about any panel of any comic.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The lack of influence is why it isn't meaningful, though. The works of Pratchett don't affect the comic one way or the other, because affecting the comic at all would mean they have influence. Noting that every panel of every comic is uninfluenced...doesn't say anything meaningful about any panel of any comic.

But people expect Pratchett to be an influence, since if you think of fantasy comedy, Pratchett is the foremost author of the subgenre. In the three times I have seen Pratchett pop up in discussions in the forums (and I'm not even all that active most of the time outside my own little microcosm of MitD, so it's likely there have been others), people have wondered if Rich is aware of Pratchett, and if he is following in his footsteps. Having an official quote listed here makes it easy to show that he hasn't been directly influenced by Pratchett.

If this was, say, a quote about Rich not having read Ruthfuss or Sanderson, I'd be all about dropping it, because I have not seen anyone wonder about that (Ruthfuss obviously postdates OotS, but hopefully you see what I mean), nor are they "important" enough to keep track of. And on the opposite side, given the number of character deaths, I would add any Rich quotes about him being influenced or not by GRR Martin.

Grey Wolf

[Flame of Anor]

Listing books, movies, TV shows that have influenced his writing, maybe been deliberately referenced, is certainly relevant. Stating that he hasn't read a particular author, and has not been influenced is part of this.

I agree--Pratchett comes up a lot.

[Toper]

Remove 11. It basically says "Tarquin is not a rogue or barbarian", which seems sufficiently obvious by now that the quote is largely clutter.

[Jasdoif]

But people expect Pratchett to be an influence, since if you think of fantasy comedy, Pratchett is the foremost author of the subgenre. In the three times I have seen Pratchett pop up in discussions in the forums (and I'm not even all that active most of the time outside my own little microcosm of MitD, so it's likely there have been others), people have wondered if Rich is aware of Pratchett, and if he is following in his footsteps. Having an official quote listed here makes it easy to show that he hasn't been directly influenced by Pratchett.

Oh, so you're saying it's index-worthy because Pratchett's influence makes it a frequent question....I still don't agree, but that line of reasoning makes far more sense.

And on the opposite side, given the number of character deaths, I would add any Rich quotes about him being influenced or not by GRR Martin.

You could certainly propose such a quote for the Index.

[Flame of Anor]

You could certainly propose such a quote for the Index.

That actually sounds like a great idea, as Gurm comes up at least as often as Pratchett (which is saying something). I propose that quote for the index.

[Fish]

I asked myself, "What turns a question into a recurring question?" When it does not have an answer.

These quotes are in reply to questions that once recurred, but do no longer. When was the last time Elan's rapiers came up? But ... does the question not come up because there is an answer? Or, if we vote to remove all these answers from the Index, then may the questions begin to recur again?

So I vote remove 3.

It is answered in-comic. The only person who would ask that now is one who read up through Durkon's vamping and stopped reading before he arrived at the answer.

[Angel Bob]

That actually sounds like a great idea, as Gurm comes up at least as often as Pratchett (which is saying something). I propose that quote for the index.

Seconded.

I'm still on the fence about the Pratchett quote, but I feel that circumstances warrant the GRRM one. Seems Rich can't off anybody without being compared.

[orrion]

If this was, say, a quote about Rich not having read Ruthfuss or Sanderson, I'd be all about dropping it, because I have not seen anyone wonder about that (Ruthfuss obviously postdates OotS, but hopefully you see what I mean), nor are they "important" enough to keep track of. And on the opposite side, given the number of character deaths, I would add any Rich quotes about him being influenced or not by GRR Martin.

Grey Wolf

Any sprawling narrative is going to have a lot of character deaths due to convenience and drama.

I don't see why it matters at all who Rich was or wasn't influenced by.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don't see why it matters at all who Rich was or wasn't influenced by.

Neither do I, but what you and I feel about the topic is irrelevant to what others feel about it. I don't particularly care about the colour of speech bubbles either, and yet I think it is important to keep in the thread, because other posters don't feel the same way I do about the topic.

This isn't a thread to list only what I or you consider important topics, it is a thread to collect Rich's words on topics that are important to the forum at large. Now, he has asked us to limit it to only those topics that are directly related to OotS, rather than, say, his western animation tv series watching preferences (Go, Team Avatar!), but for reasons that escape my understanding, a lot of people care deeply about what authors influenced other authors (I suspect it has to do with English Literature classes, which I never took). Pratchett and GRRM come up often, and thus are worthy of inclusion.

Grey Wolf

[Porthos]

This is going to come up time and time again, given how many people have already asked in the main comic:

The Giant on "Xykon is feeling chilly today."

I still don't get the "Xykon is feeling chilly" codeword though. None of the explanations here convinced me, they seem just stretched to make it fit.

Well, they're right anyway. It's just as simple as, "The highest priority target is the guy with the scarf," said in such a way that Tarquin didn't understand that's what was being said. Belkar later reiterates in the vernacular this exact idea in his panel.

[Takver]

Remove 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, and 11.

[Petey7]

I vote to Keep Them All

[littlebum2002]

keep all. Knowledge is power.

[Firemeier]

Remove 4, keep the rest. Also +1 for the GRRM quote being added.

[orrion]

Neither do I, but what you and I feel about the topic is irrelevant to what others feel about it. I don't particularly care about the colour of speech bubbles either, and yet I think it is important to keep in the thread, because other posters don't feel the same way I do about the topic.

This isn't a thread to list only what I or you consider important topics, it is a thread to collect Rich's words on topics that are important to the forum at large. Now, he has asked us to limit it to only those topics that are directly related to OotS, rather than, say, his western animation tv series watching preferences (Go, Team Avatar!), but for reasons that escape my understanding, a lot of people care deeply about what authors influenced other authors (I suspect it has to do with English Literature classes, which I never took). Pratchett and GRRM come up often, and thus are worthy of inclusion.

Grey Wolf

English literature classes? Nobody runs into science fiction in those classes.

My point is that what Rich was influenced by has nothing to do with OOTS. It has to do with an individual's personal preferences.


GRRM in particular annoys me. "Oh gods people died, he must be copying from GRRM!!!!!1111!!oneone!!!" Absurd.

[Shale]

The best (by which I mean worst) is when somebody brings up GRRM just as a shorthand for "wow, that character death was/would be a punch in the gut" and then everybody spends four pages arguing about whether Song of Ice and Fire sucks or not.

[Sky_Schemer]

The best (by which I mean worst) is when somebody brings up GRRM just as a shorthand for "wow, that character death was/would be a punch in the gut" and then everybody spends four pages arguing about whether Song of Ice and Fire sucks or not.

Please don't make me laugh like this while I am eating lunch.

EDIT: My vote is to keep all

[Fish]

I agree on the GRRM quote. The frequency with which that suggestion is made is annoying, both to me and I presume to Rich.

[Scow2]

Remove 4 (As amusing as that thread is).

Keep the rest, at least until Team Tarquin is dead and buried.
I'd normally say remove 7, but Pratchett is too high-profile to ignore. It should only be removed if the Giant does read Pratchett's works at some point.

[Peelee]

Remove 4 (As amusing as that thread is).

Keep the rest, at least until Team Tarquin is dead and buried.
I'd normally say remove 7, but Pratchett is too high-profile to ignore. It should only be removed if the Giant does read Pratchett's works at some point.

Remove 7.

If we list what The Giant was not influenced by, we're gonna need a whole 'nother thread. Maybe forum. Possibly server. Whether or not the influencing person is high-profile is irrelevant. If The Giant had never read The Once And Future King, would you argue that T. H. White not influencing should be added? What about the Silmarillion? You can hardly discount Tolkien as lower-profile than Pratchett. What about The Art of War? Sun Tzu had a long track record of being famous, and there are several battles in OotS with interesting tactics. Should the lack of inspiration from his tome be recorded?

[Ron Miel]

If someone specifically asks if the battle scenes are based upon Sun-Tzu, and The Giant answers "No, I've never read it" then I'd vote for including the comment.

[orrion]

If someone specifically asks if the battle scenes are based upon Sun-Tzu, and The Giant answers "No, I've never read it" then I'd vote for including the comment.

Why?

We might as well ask Rich to list every novel he's ever read.

And even if he does that there's no guarantee that it influenced him or not. "The Once and Future King" was just mentioned. I've read that. Like 20 years ago. I remember almost nothing of that book.

[Peelee]

Ron Miel, I'm gonna go ahead and spoiler my reply to lessen strain on anyone who doesn't want to get involved in the discourse.

Spoiler

Show

If someone specifically asks if the battle scenes are based upon Sun-Tzu, and The Giant answers "No, I've never read it" then I'd vote for including the comment.

And I would argue just as fervently against its inclusion, for the reasons states above. Assume the Giant answered every question posed to him on possible influences. Would a laundry list really be all that helpful?

Since, of course, he doesn't do that, assuming he still keeps responding occasionally, at what point does it become too long? We've established that there is clearly a point at which it is a ridiculous length (or at least, I have. If you do not agree, then I think we've found a bit more major crux upon which we can hinge our disagreement), so at what point does it become too much? When it outnumbers the list of actual influences? What meter would you use?

More to the point, if The Giant is not influenced by a certain work, what does that matter? Let's say a large portion of forumites were wondering if The Art of War was, in fact, an influence.

Let's now imagine that it was. That'd be pretty darn interesting, wouldn't it? What parts, specifically, were the major influencing factors? What would that say about The Giant's work as a whole? How does that relate to the message he's trying to convey with the story? There's quite a bit that could tell us, no?

Now let's imagine it wasn't. Well.... that tells us he didn't read The Art of War. Not much else, really. Maybe he doesn't like ancient Chinese military treatises? Maybe it's on his list of books to read, and just hasn't gotten around to it? Maybe he just never thought to himself, "I should go check the local Books A Million and see if they have any copies." In any event, it doesn't tell us anything relevant whatsoever. It just tells us he didn't read the book.

Now replace that with anything written by Pratchett. Is there any difference?

[Taelas]

The difference is, a lot of people have asked if he's influenced by Pratchett, which makes a response in the negative from him a useful resource. No one, to my knowledge, has asked the same regarding the Art of War.

We don't have to exclude the entirety of the work that the Giant hasn't read, because people aren't asking about them. They have been asking about Pratchett, and there was a fairly high profile thread a while back about GRRM.

[orrion]

The difference is, a lot of people have asked if he's influenced by Pratchett, which makes a response in the negative from him a useful resource. No one, to my knowledge, has asked the same regarding the Art of War.

We don't have to exclude the entirety of the work that the Giant hasn't read, because people aren't asking about them. They have been asking about Pratchett, and there was a fairly high profile thread a while back about GRRM.

A useful resource in general about Rich Burlew, yes.

A useful resource about OOTS in particular, which is the point of this thread? Not so much.

[Taelas]

Let me clarify:

People are asking if OOTS in particular has been influenced by Pratchett.

[orrion]

Let me clarify:

People are asking if OOTS in particular has been influenced by Pratchett.

Let me clarify:

That doesn't matter.

What also doesn't matter is the author name. Replace Pratchett with Brooks, Goodkind, Jordon, Tolkien, or Dickens.

Hell, I could ask him if he's influenced by Jane Austen because, apparently, Elan and Haley are going to end up happily married with a load of money.