League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do?

[Dogmantra]

Ehh, not so much. Four minutes is quite slow already, and the best ganks come at level two, just as the minions come into lane.

[Math_Mage]

Is being able to gank by 4:53 a good time? Just wondering about something I was toying around with.

If you're doing a to-level-5 clear (small camps and then full clear), it's a great time. If you're doing a more ordinary aggressive ganking clear...well, it's ordinary for the good junglers to finish their routes around 3:30.

[Eldariel]

What is it with pro teams and having no idea how to go through the process of choosing between two players for their 5th spot? First v8 and now this, though admittedly v8's was the more ridiculous situation since the kickee was the team founder. Is it that hard to, I don't know, hold tryouts? Discuss things with both players in a mature and reasonable fashion, instead of presenting everything as a "This is how it is, you get no say" line in the sand? Christ on a crutch.

Funny part is, out of all the teams the last one I'd think to pull through and do it properly, SK Gaming, had a completely incident free break-up when Wickd left. You know the state of professionalism in LoL is sad when a 16yo. kid is the only class act.

[9mm]

If you're doing a to-level-5 clear (small camps and then full clear), it's a great time. If you're doing a more ordinary aggressive ganking clear...well, it's ordinary for the good junglers to finish their routes around 3:30.

Actually standard aggressive clear is STILL 4:00. if your ganking at 4:30, not just finished clearing camps, but in position and pressuring a lane; your doing fine. If your just finished your camps, you either are playing someone who should be laning, don't have the right runes, or are pathing extremely inefficiently.

Edit: this is assuming you haven't done any level 1 counter-jungling.

[term1nally s1ck]

Actually, with the new masteries, many junglers are hitting 5 at 4:15 to 4:30. Shyvana in particular is ABSURDLY fast.

[Eldariel]

New masteries were real jungle steroids. I wouldn't be surprised if they were a big part of what Riot was advertising in making the jungle more accessible for every champ.

[Joran]

Also, holy ****, reading Elementz's account on CLG's game spirit and how his benching was unveiled to him was painful. Seems like the play environment there is acid. No wonder all the CLG members are seeming unhappy about the whole; they fail on a basic level in communication and dealing with losses. No sports team can afford that much. Also, CLG only has one good support player who is being benched right now. It makes 0 sense to have HS or Chauster play support over Elementz.

I'm surprised they don't have film sessions or something similar. Basically a post-action report where they go over what went wrong, what went right, what changes have to be made. The worst part of the Elementz decision was that he seems like he was completely caught by surprise.

Also, do these e-sports teams have coaches?

[Eldariel]

I'm surprised they don't have film sessions or something similar. Basically a post-action report where they go over what went wrong, what went right, what changes have to be made. The worst part of the Elementz decision was that he seems like he was completely caught by surprise.

Also, do these e-sports teams have coaches?

Real teams do. Alas, LoL teams (and indeed, most western E-Sports teams) aren't real teams; they consist of a bunch of players one of which is the captain and that's it. No support personel of any kind. Many even have players doing the manager duties like arranging sponsors and all that ****.

So yeah, generally not outside Korea/China. Unfortunately.

[Joran]

Real teams do. Alas, LoL teams (and indeed, most western E-Sports teams) aren't real teams; they consist of a bunch of players one of which is the captain and that's it. No support personel of any kind. Many even have players doing the manager duties like arranging sponsors and all that ****.

So yeah, generally not outside Korea/China. Unfortunately.

For film studies, I'd assume it'd be difficult since there are no replays at the moment.

Another issue is that the players tend to be geographically separated right? I know CLG was separated over Canada and the U.S. In Korea, there are gaming houses devoted to professional Starcraft, where the players live, eat, and play together. I'd assume that outside of Starcraft, there isn't enough money to support an infrastructure like a professional sports team.

[toasty]

Funny part is, out of all the teams the last one I'd think to pull through and do it properly, SK Gaming, had a completely incident free break-up when Wickd left. You know the state of professionalism in LoL is sad when a 16yo. kid is the only class act.

It seems to me that CLG did a very poor job explaining their feelings towards Elementz. I'm not talking short-term, I'm talking Long Term. Elementz has been on this team for over a year now, and this is how they treat him? Yeah, there is something seriously wrong with the way that CLG is operating, at a fundamental level. Personally, I think it's a big mistake to kick him off the team, but, its their choice. Gotta suck though, especially since he has to play with jiji and HSSG at CLG. I've always been a TSM fan and I always will be. If this is a chance for TSM to score some more victories, then I'll be 100% okay with it.

In other news: Without Doublelift, no offense to Crs, but I'm going to call them a joke team. I suppose Nyjacky can AD carry and they can put Liquid back on support, but... liquid is such a terrible player. Doublelift was the guy that seemed to be keeping that team together, without him, I don't really think they're going to do much anymore.

[Daverin]

So, bear looks... decent. Sadly, that slow to stun passive didn't seem to show up, which sucks because it would have been one of the cooler ones. Now, he seems... pretty generic. Likely good, but none of his skills appears to try anything overly different. Also, that passive can either be quite potent or extremely useless. And ignite bait.

And, new pirate model ahoy! Can't wait to see it, the splash looks pretty cool.

[Zeful]

Patch Preview is up.

Sivir gains attack range, Ricochet is an auto-attack modifier, and passive is "gains MS after hitting an enemy champ".

Yay?

[Arbitrarity]

Actually standard aggressive clear is STILL 4:00. if your ganking at 4:30, not just finished clearing camps, but in position and pressuring a lane; your doing fine. If your just finished your camps, you either are playing someone who should be laning, don't have the right runes, or are pathing extremely inefficiently.

Nope.

Stonewall considers Jarvan his new "average" jungler for speed and ganking ability. Fast is Shyvana, or Udyr, and slow would be Tryndamere or something. Amumu, Cho, Malphite, and even FIZZ are faster, though.

Also, stonewall is probably going to have to completely redo jungle guides. I suspect Cloth+5 is now less viable.

[Fredaintdead]

Saw the bear... WANT! GIMME NOW!
Can you tell I'm excited for the giant armoured thunderbear?

As for the patch changes:
I'm happy to see Sivir getting reworked and the jungling changes make me kind of happy (I'd like to try jungling fairly soon rather than waiting until 30), although I'm worried it might make Jungling TOO easy. Not sure how valid that worry is though. The nerf to health pots... makes me sort of sad (I take 3-5 pots on most of the champs I play at the start), but meh, I'll get over it. *shrugs*
Found the Phreakception on the preview pretty cool though (RiotPhreak kills Phreak).

Gangplank's new model looks cool.

[Qaera]

just had the most amazing game 29/7/10 Ez. Lost but maaaaan that was fun. My first quadrakill!

Is this how you guys always feel?

~ ♅

[tribble]

just had the most amazing game 29/7/10 Ez. Lost but maaaaan that was fun. My first quadrakill!

Is this how you guys always feel?

~ ♅

Very rarely, unfortunately. Congrats on the quad!

Man, the difference betwen mundo before you have merc treads and spirit visage and after is amazing. I went from being zoned hard and even firstblooded by ashe to chasing her down and towerdiving her. twice. Also, it could have just been that the other teams singed was bad but it seemed like cleavers just absolutely ruin singed. Like, to the point of maybe even being a hard counter.

In fact, I feel like with enough farm/kills, mundo can do everything singed does except for fling. Admittedly fling is an AMAZING skill, but consider:
-Singed does a mean DoT AOE. Mundo has an AOE DPS. It's not as powerful as poison, but it's free tenacity. Agony+merc treads=intercept ashe ult and not care.
-Singed is nigh invulnerable. So is Mundo.
-Singed has like an 80% AOE slow. Mundo has a 35% slowing nuke with a short enough CD to permaslow.
-Singed runs fast. Mundo runs faster.
Add to this that Mundo can actually do a lot of damage to towers without needing 9001 caster minions.

EDIT: RE: Red buff changes: You SHOULD be royally boned if you overextend and the jungler comes to gank you. This is supposedly going to encourage early aggression (because early bullies like leblanc desperately needed the buff amirite) but it's DIScouraging aggression from the jungler.

[9mm]

so patch preview:

Assuming Morrello mispoke; jungle remake might be good.

Sivir remake, however is a gigantic middle finger to Sivir players. Way to take every suggestion we didn't want or like, and implement them!

[Daverin]

Minion damage nerf. I am completely okay with this, whatever else may happen.

Meanwhile, red buff nerf. Actually, given what else they have said, it doubles up as extra reinforcement of their gank/jungle decision. So, sucks for ganking, but, eh.

Also, the lane changes are probably good for the most part; admittedly, there are some crazy lane bullies, like Yorick, Urgot, and Leblanc, but ironically enough this doesn't help them because part of their problem is ridiculous 'ability' damage, which does not proc minion aggro. In other words, part of their problem was that they had tools to avoid that particular trap. Riot is acting towards bringing others closer to that level, and not the other way around. Pot nerf is painful, though.

Also, they've actually shown the model? Where?

[tribble]

so patch preview:

Assuming Morrello mispoke; jungle remake might be good.

Sivir remake, however is a gigantic middle finger to Sivir players. Way to take every suggestion we didn't want or like, and implement them!

the only good thing about the sivir changes are the range. The bounce "rework" is an outright nerf.

Ryze is OP? Better nerf Sivir!

[Fredaintdead]

Also, they've actually shown the model? Where?

I don't think they've shown GP's new model, just the new art, which I thought looked pretty nice. *shrugs*

[Daverin]

I don't think they've shown GP's new model, just the new art, which I thought looked pretty nice. *shrugs*

Darn you and your previous phrasing! I am actually really looking forward to this, since GP is currently one of my favorite champs when I want good damage, tankiness, and great utility.

[Dogmantra]

the only good thing about the sivir changes are the range. The bounce "rework" is an outright nerf.

That really depends on the numbers. Apart from anything, it lets her double strike, which is REALLY strong.

[Daverin]

If it isn't up 24/7, maybe they could consider all hits landing on-hits? Then you could make it like a healing nuke with lifesteal or an aoe slow with Mallet.

I must say, this makes me feel like at least trying her afterwards. I do like that she has a teambuff, which always feels nice. That, and I imagine the spell shield is very potent when you know how to use it (it certainly is annoying to get blocked by...)

EDIT: Also, I've noticed that solomid guides mostly advocated nearly no AS besides Stark's. Was Ricochet able to cover that or something? Granted, 15 seconds is a good amount of time for a buff, but it is still temporary, and 65% on no boosted AS is hardly fantastic.

[Delusion]

Just watched path preview.

"RiotPhreak has slain Phreak"

Did Phreak just gank himself?

[Darth Mario]

Just watched path preview.

"RiotPhreak has slain Phreak"

Did Phreak just gank himself?

It certainly looked like he switched computers and just stopped playing Jarvan there.

[Math_Mage]

Patch Preview is up.

Sivir gains attack range, Ricochet is an auto-attack modifier, and passive is "gains MS after hitting an enemy champ".

Yay?

The big thing for me is the jungle change. Looking forward to double jungle/support comps, three solos + roamer, lots of level 1 counterjungle wars, competing for the health restoration buffs on minor camps (or giving them to your laner to compensate for the HP pot nerf), and a lot more variety overall than we've seen ever since the rise of 1-1-2-jungler.

[Daverin]

Huh, good point in that thread: potential usage of jungle health to sustain the lanes. Admittedly, it could be better than having to B and run back, depending on strength.

Also, what would the merits of a sidelane shop like in DotA be? What could it screw up? I feel like if they want to improve the laning phase, trying to alleviate the need to back as much as possible can make aggressive play slightly less punishing if failed.

[Math_Mage]

Huh, good point in that thread: potential usage of jungle health to sustain the lanes. Admittedly, it could be better than having to B and run back, depending on strength.

Also, what would the merits of a sidelane shop like in DotA be? What could it screw up? I feel like if they want to improve the laning phase, trying to alleviate the need to back as much as possible can make aggressive play slightly less punishing if failed.

IMO Rift is too small for that to feel good. DotA has sidelane shops because there's no recall (though there is the courier) and the map is ginormous. Also, I can't recall anyone suggesting that DotA's shop system is a good role model.

[Daverin]

IMO Rift is too small for that to feel good. DotA has sidelane shops because there's no recall (though there is the courier) and the map is ginormous. Also, I can't recall anyone suggesting that DotA's shop system is a good role model.

I've never played, so I am more curious than anything.

By the way, any champs who can definitely find a role with this jungle change? I know Stonewall and, according to him, the EU now like Blitzcrank already as a jungle start roamer. Will this give him the ability to stay in jungle if he does not feel like ganking? Because I really want a place for Blitz, he's just too much fun with all that he can do.

[toasty]

inb4 Jungle Janna, Blitz, Twitch, Eve, and Ali all become OP.

Sivir rework looks good. Nerf to her late game that was pretty much the only reason people play her and a buff to her early game mean she's actually possibly viable in standard comps. I'm still mad that they are changing her, because I like quirky champions that require specific comps, but whatever. Riot will be riot.

Minion nerfs are good. Red buff nerfs are good becasue its an indirect buff to AD carries. Its already getting to the point that if your tankydps is somewhat fed and doesnt naturally build Mallet, its better just to give the buff to him, even late game.

Junglerework looks nice. Dunno what it will mean, but it looks nice.