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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Why can't the clones be looked at? Killing clones doesn't kill you, that's the whole point of them. Also, what kind of basilisk? I was assuming the flesh-to-stone kind.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Rules state that everyone fights at their strongest, so he's alive again in the next round. If the results of previous rounds carried over then everyone would get more powerful by stealing the weapons of the people they'd defeated, etc.

    And regardless, if Orochimaru uses Impure World Resurrection to summon the 1st and 2nd Hokages as immortal zombies... Beowulf and the Basilisk can't kill them and have no way to seal them, so they can't win.
    He can't use that technique since it requires a living sacrifice of another human. Well he could use it and sacrifice the 4th hokage but otherwise he couldn't by the rules of the fight.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    He can't use that technique since it requires a living sacrifice of another human. Well he could use it and sacrifice the 4th hokage but otherwise he couldn't by the rules of the fight.
    When he uses it in the story he'd already performed most of the jutsu beforehand, storing the sacrifices in coffins; he then summoned the coffins while in combat.

    That said, the jutsu doesn't take long to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by zingbat View Post
    Also, regarding the teleport plan:
    - Does the 4th keep the locations of airless underground caverns in his head? Is he really that crazy prepared?
    He can teleport to any of his daggers, and he keeps a number of them in specially created underground chambers.

    - Do the clones actually have to grab their target? If so, they're going to find it difficult to do this to Beowulf.
    He was able to teleport the Nine-Tails without touching it, but that was after he summoned a giant toad to hold it still. (said toad could also just be summoned above the basilisk to crush it)
    - And, of course, can they position themselves in a way that they will not be seen by the basilisk even for a moment?
    Couldn't they just keep their eyes closed? Also, they're ninjas.

    Your link specifically states that "The technique can be partially combated by immobilising the bodies in a way that it cannot move, act, or be recalled by the summoner." As in, being petrified by a basilisk's gaze.
    The clones would regenerate from that though.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-11-29 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    When he uses it in the story he'd already performed most of the jutsu beforehand, storing the sacrifices in coffins; he then summoned the coffins while in combat.

    .
    hmmm. I would like a ruling on this one. On one hand he has pretty much reduced them to equitment status. One the other hand getting before-hand prepwork is a pretty big advantage.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    So... a lot of the stuff from the Naruto verse seems to be relying heavily on the fight taking place in the Narutoverse, or at least somewhere with preprepared coffins, a scouted out battlefield etc.

    If the fight takes place in a neutral third location, then a lot of the Naruto verses tricks just aren't going to be applicable. If the battle were confined to say... a gigantic crumbling romanesque arena it would become more about straight fighting rather than fancy tricks.

    Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.

    I'd also like to say, that while the basilisk is by necessity a very vague inclusion without a single definitive source to base its powers on, most sources I've seen that include basilisks have their death/petrification gaze based on looking the basilisk in the eye. Rather than just anything the basilisk looks at. That would mean a skilled fighter could either keep their eyes shut or in a slightly more risky but less debilitating move merely keep their gaze averted.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chess435 View Post
    What was the verdict on the tiebreakers from week 1?
    Bleach won theirs. Terminator was never in a tie due to a vote counting error.

    Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.


    Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Bleach won theirs. Terminator was never in a tie due to a vote counting error.

    Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.


    Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.
    canon is that Ichigo wins in a fight. But this pretty much eliminates them both from the competition anyways.

    Alright so the fight is taking place in a crumbing Romanesque gladiator arena since that was the first suggestion. They know who their opponents are but not their nature however using clones as scouts is reasonable so they would likely be eliminated by the basilisk's gaze. The only ninja I'm aware of being able to fight without eye contact is Guy but he admits that even after training it puts him at a disadvantage. Its probable that the 4th hokage and Orichumaru have not trained in fighting like that and would find it extremely difficult.
    Last edited by Forum Explorer; 2011-11-29 at 03:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.
    Strong, tough, skilled? They're ninjas. The 4th is known as the "Yellow Flash", and was fast enough that he was able to basically turn the tide of a war by fighting armies of other ninjas by himself.

    Here's a clip of Orochimaru fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.
    He can summon them from an unlimited distance though...
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-11-29 at 03:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    So... a lot of the stuff from the Naruto verse seems to be relying heavily on the fight taking place in the Narutoverse, or at least somewhere with preprepared coffins, a scouted out battlefield etc.

    If the fight takes place in a neutral third location, then a lot of the Naruto verses tricks just aren't going to be applicable. If the battle were confined to say... a gigantic crumbling romanesque arena it would become more about straight fighting rather than fancy tricks.

    Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.

    I'd also like to say, that while the basilisk is by necessity a very vague inclusion without a single definitive source to base its powers on, most sources I've seen that include basilisks have their death/petrification gaze based on looking the basilisk in the eye. Rather than just anything the basilisk looks at. That would mean a skilled fighter could either keep their eyes shut or in a slightly more risky but less debilitating move merely keep their gaze averted.
    It pretty much is, Naruto ninja's can be very good in a straight fight, but thrive with their large variety of techniques .
    4th Hokage - While he is more powerful with his prepared kunai to teleport too, he carries some to use on him and is about tied for best speed in the narutoverse (REALLY FAST).
    Orochimaru - Generic snake abilities, summoning, regeneration, general ninjutsu.

    For the basilisk, both can summon giant toads/snakes respectively which aren't likely to make eye contact and might just squish it.
    Last edited by Istari; 2011-11-29 at 03:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    They're ninjas
    That means not much to me. I have never seen a single episode/read a single issue of Naruto. What is the baseline power level of a ninja? Real world ninjas certainly wouldn't impress me in this contest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley
    Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.
    So... teams that just barely scrape through a match... are made weaker for all subsequent matches?

    That's really dumb. Sorry.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    That means not much to me. I have never seen a single episode/read a single issue of Naruto. What is the baseline power level of a ninja? Real world ninjas certainly wouldn't impress me in this contest.



    So... teams that just barely scrape through a match... are made weaker for all subsequent matches?

    That's really dumb. Sorry.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Narutoverse.

    The Basilisk will keep the Naruto guys off base while it is alive. But ultimately it is a big dumb monster, that either of them can kill pretty easily. Probably very quickly into the fight.

    Beowulf is tougher. His skin is enough to bounce swords off, and in the enchanted armour he stole from Grendel's Mother's hoard he is incredibly resilient. I do however think that he can't beat up both of his opponents. The Orochimaru fight I was linked to was impressive, and while "teleporting" sounds like a lot less useful of a power to take down someone as tough and strong as Beowulf, I'm sure Mr Hokage will be a tough opponent too. I definitely can't see Beowulf taking down both of them at once.

    Weak link Basilisk makes the Narutoverse the favourite.

    Unless you assume that they both die to a petrifying gaze in the first few seconds. Or that Beowulf can make good use of the short time while they're fighting and avoiding the gaze to even the odds. I think it's definitely one that could potentially swing the other way.
    Last edited by Selrahc; 2011-11-30 at 04:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Beowulf is really strong and has some ridiculous "look how awesome I am" feats. But the ninjas in naruto are really strong, really fast and use magic. The speed really makes a massive difference, I'm pretty sure these guys are around dragon ball (pre-z) levels. The kind of speed that the guys who can lose spectators watching them from a fair distance can't follow. The standard ninjas (far weaker than the two we're talking about) are probably peak human skilled, with superhuman strength and speed, and magic. For example, it's pretty standard to see ninjas knocking kunai that are in flight out of the air with their own. They can usually jump double digit metres and enhance their strikes with chakra while fighting. The main weakness that the ninjas have is I'm not entirely sure about their toughness. While they seem to be almost proof against impacts that would kill a normal human, but it's not as if blades snap on them. Then again, it's possible with these two. Does anyone recall orochimaru or the fourth being hurt by a mundane sword?

    So yeah, provided they don't get nailed by the basilisk stare I'm almost certain the ninjas take it.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top cat View Post
    Beowulf is really strong and has some ridiculous "look how awesome I am" feats. But the ninjas in naruto are really strong, really fast and use magic. The speed really makes a massive difference, I'm pretty sure these guys are around dragon ball (pre-z) levels. The kind of speed that the guys who can lose spectators watching them from a fair distance can't follow. The standard ninjas (far weaker than the two we're talking about) are probably peak human skilled, with superhuman strength and speed, and magic. For example, it's pretty standard to see ninjas knocking kunai that are in flight out of the air with their own. They can usually jump double digit metres and enhance their strikes with chakra while fighting. The main weakness that the ninjas have is I'm not entirely sure about their toughness. While they seem to be almost proof against impacts that would kill a normal human, but it's not as if blades snap on them. Then again, it's possible with these two. Does anyone recall orochimaru or the fourth being hurt by a mundane sword?

    So yeah, provided they don't get nailed by the basilisk stare I'm almost certain the ninjas take it.
    I remember Orichumara being pretty tough and taking some wall crushing impacts without effect.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    while "teleporting" sounds like a lot less useful of a power to take down someone as tough and strong as Beowulf, I'm sure Mr Hokage will be a tough opponent too.
    The thing is that he can basically teleport as easily as blinking, and with great precision. Fighting him is like fighting air. Offensively he has the Rasengan, which would do massive damage to Beowulf before he can even tell what's happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I remember Orichumara being pretty tough and taking some wall crushing impacts without effect.
    In the video I linked he gets cut in two and the halves just rejoin. His body is essentially a large colony of snakes transformed into a human - from what I can tell he only needs one to survive.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-11-30 at 06:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    In the video I linked he gets cut in two and the halves just rejoin.
    Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.
    Correct. Naruto could barely move in that form, the energy (and burning/regenerating skin and blood) around his body was so thick. Most of his opponents are a lot faster.

    Here's an earlier fight vs the 3rd Hokage.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.
    I always wonder about this type of thing when anime/manga characters are in these fights. Japanese-style stories typically involve elaborate transformation and preparatory sequences that opponents seem to treat as free actions. There's also a lot of staring in awe when something amazing happens. A character from outside that universe isn't going to just watch.

    This is one of the more interesting fights to me, and I think it hinges on how the basilisk is handled. Beowulf is epically tough and a legendary fighter, but the basilisk is basically a one-trick pony; Team Naruto seems much more versatile. If they know what the basilisk can do, and take it out quickly, they'll probably take the fight. If they don't know, or don't take it seriously, one of them will be stone, and Beowulf and the monster win.

    I'm sticking with Team B&B, mostly because I prefer folklore and legend to anime and manga.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by zingbat View Post
    I always wonder about this type of thing when anime/manga characters are in these fights. Japanese-style stories typically involve elaborate transformation and preparatory sequences that opponents seem to treat as free actions. There's also a lot of staring in awe when something amazing happens. A character from outside that universe isn't going to just watch.
    This is predominantly anime. There's a lot of stories where the fights are supposed to be happening so fast that a normal human can't even see them, which obviously doesn't work in an anime adaptation.

    In some stuff we're informed that it's going faster than that, it's just slowed down for the viewer's benefit. In most that's just assumed. In particular, most transformation sequences "really" happen almost instantly (occasionally a character who normally has such a sequence will transform in a brief flash of light and it won't be treated as different).

    Then there's Dragonball Z, where 5 minutes once passed over the course of 10 episodes.


    EDIT: On a related note, Battle Auras? The early examples were pretty much Reverse Spider-Sense (broadcasting danger rather than detecting it) and weren't supposed to be visible any more than that was. It's a Japanese cultural thing that if someone is thinking about something with enough intensity (usually killing) then people nearby can sense it.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-11-30 at 10:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    This is predominantly anime. There's a lot of stories where the fights are supposed to be happening so fast that a normal human can't even see them, which obviously doesn't work in an anime adaptation.

    In some stuff we're informed that it's going faster than that, it's just slowed down for the viewer's benefit. In most that's just assumed. In particular, most transformation sequences "really" happen almost instantly (occasionally a character who normally has such a sequence will transform in a brief flash of light and it won't be treated as different).

    Then there's Dragonball Z, where 5 minutes once passed over the course of 10 episodes.


    EDIT: On a related note, Battle Auras? The early examples were pretty much Reverse Spider-Sense (broadcasting danger rather than detecting it) and weren't supposed to be visible any more than that was. It's a Japanese cultural thing that if someone is thinking about something with enough intensity (usually killing) then people nearby can sense it.
    Sure that kinda makes sense for some things. But when they have some chant to say first then unless that's basically sounding like gibberish we know how fast the transformation is going.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Are they going to know its a basilisk though? I don't see why they'd intentionally avoid its gaze or anything like that unless they know what it is. That's a pretty big downside I'd imagine.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Are they going to know its a basilisk though? I don't see why they'd intentionally avoid its gaze or anything like that unless they know what it is. That's a pretty big downside I'd imagine.
    It's a big part of Naruto combats that half the time you manage to hit someone it turns out to be a clone. Especially if the attacker is dumb.

    Even if they do look at the basilisk, Orochimaru could escape by shedding his skin and the 4th can teleport away before he's fully petrified (he's made more improbable escapes).

    Also, do team B&B have any defence against Orochimaru turning the ground into quicksand? (ninjas can walk on walls and water, it doesn't affect their mobility) Or the 4th creating a Rasengan and teleporting a millimeter behind their backs? Or Orochimaru using genjutsu to screw with their senses?
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-12-01 at 08:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    It's a big part of Naruto combats that half the time you manage to hit someone it turns out to be a clone. Especially if the attacker is dumb.

    Even if they do look at the basilisk, Orochimaru could escape by shedding his skin and the 4th can teleport away before he's fully petrified (he's made more improbable escapes).

    Also, do team B&B have any defence against Orochimaru turning the ground into quicksand? (ninjas can walk on walls and water, it doesn't affect their mobility) Or the 4th creating a Rasengan and teleporting a millimeter behind their backs? Or Orochimaru using genjutsu to screw with their senses?
    Was it the petrifying basilisk we're going with? I thought the general myths/legends one just killed you at a glance (and had poison breath). Thats really the only advantage I see the basilisk/beowulf having. The fight starts the two ninja's look at their opponents and then die because the basilisk looks back. If that doesn't happen I suspect the ninja's kill them fairly easily.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Was it the petrifying basilisk we're going with? I thought the general myths/legends one just killed you at a glance (and had poison breath). Thats really the only advantage I see the basilisk/beowulf having. The fight starts the two ninja's look at their opponents and then die because the basilisk looks back. If that doesn't happen I suspect the ninja's kill them fairly easily.
    I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top cat View Post
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    Remember him?
    I argue that he isn't a ninja so much as a sealed demon. Plus I can't remember the last time he just quickly one-shoted someone and kept going.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.
    When their opponents are also ninjas, how does that count against them? Plus we've seen clearly superhuman guys like White Zetsu (who can split into multiple bodies, trap people in goo, pass through earth like air and drain life force) getting killed by the thousands with little effort. Itachi wiped out an elite clan by himself in one night. Other times we see people getting defeated easily but left alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I argue that he isn't a ninja so much as a sealed demon. Plus I can't remember the last time he just quickly one-shoted someone and kept going.
    He killed a bunch of Sound ninjas very quickly, but after that he became less crazy and appeared less often. In any case, he tends not to rush things.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-12-01 at 01:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    When their opponents are also ninjas, how does that count against them? Plus we've seen clearly superhuman guys like White Zetsu (who can trap people in goo, pass through earth like air and drain life force) getting killed by the thousands with little effort. Itachi wiped out an elite clan by himself in one night. Other times we see people getting defeated easily but left alive.

    He killed a bunch of Sound ninjas very quickly, but after that he became less crazy and appeared less often.
    I'll just focus on that as most of the rest I don't really know enough about (I didn't watch a lot of Naruto and it was a long time ago)

    As far as I know the ninjas are otherwise ordinary humans who can use techniques to enhance their abilities. Very few of them are actually stated to be more resiliant to damage then any other human.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    As far as I know the ninjas are otherwise ordinary humans who can use techniques to enhance their abilities. Very few of them are actually stated to be more resiliant to damage then any other human.
    And when they get hit by a high-level technique, most ninja die instantly. However, this is very rare with the large variety of feint and defensive techniques they have (clones being the most basic/common), combined with all ninjas having super-agility.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Gaara's a jinchuriki, but most of his power is just him. Probably. Except when he's in partial or full on tailed beast form. He killed a few guys during the forest part of the chuunin exam, and later a few ninjas who wanted to intimidate him because of some betting bull****, both in less than a minute (allowing for dramatic pauses). There's also a bit around the same arc where asuma takes down 9 ninjas, also in less than a minute. Naruto ninjas aren't slow at killing, it's just that important battles are all going to be anime-esque.

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