OOTS #816 - The Discussion Thread

[AutomatedTeller]

Well, 30,000 hobgoblins were enough to overrun--by sheer wave attacks, no real treachery or superior technology-- what Eugene Greenhilt described as "one of the oldest bastions of good on the mortal plane." So I'm guessing 10,000 men, in the fractious and disorganized environment of the western continent, would constitute one hell of a force.

I don't think it was just 30K hobgoblins. Titanium Elementals, a death knight, and, of course, a lich pinning all the paladins in one place.

That said, 10K is a pretty big army...

[Zea mays]

Except Orrin stole the girl and the money 15 years prior to Penelope meeting Tarquin. And cue the baseless theory that Tarquin is a time traveling villain.

Sheesh, there's no need to go getting your knickers in a twist.

It was merely one suggestion of how Tarquin's (probably incomplete) account of events could be augmented, and as I clearly indicated in my post I'm not wedded to the notion either.
I should have remembered the time-frame which make's Tarquin's involvement less plausible. (though still, no time-traveling whatsoever would be required).

[deuxhero]

I would lul if there is one callback out of Elan when they meet Draketooth

Spoiler

Show

Did you know there is at least one (aristocrat friendly) prestige class that grants the extraordinary ability to fool magical lie detection?

[Raistlin82]

Sorry I only recently joined the forums, this is my first time posting on a discussion thread, in fact I only started reading OOTS slightly after Z showed up to stone Haley.

I so envy you.
You now have 800+ strips to catch up with, and you can read them all in one go.

[Sith_Happens]

Elan, you're... absolutely right.

WAT

(Seriously, I never thought I'd read that sentence.)

[Lord Tyger]

Tarquin said that he had gone out of the way to prevent him from having another child, after Nale. In my town that translates as forcing medieval abortion practices on his wives. The fact that he is looking for this 10th wife reinforces the hypothesis.

Your town has medieval abortion practices, but not condoms?

[Cranica]

I dunno if anyone else caught the implication here. This is Tarquin's previous wife, who recently died under 'mysterious circumstances" shortly after blabbing about information regarding Girard. I think Tarquin knows what's up, but only recently. Nale wouldn't have told him, but he should know who Thog is (he's pictured in the panel with Team Tarquin vs the Linear Guild) and had him as a prisoner for some time. Thog's certainly dumb enough to spill what he knows about the Gates.

[EnragedFilia]

I dunno if anyone else caught the implication here. This is Tarquin's previous wife, who recently died under 'mysterious circumstances" shortly after blabbing about information regarding Girard. I think Tarquin knows what's up, but only recently. Nale wouldn't have told him, but he should know who Thog is (he's pictured in the panel with Team Tarquin vs the Linear Guild) and had him as a prisoner for some time. Thog's certainly dumb enough to spill what he knows about the Gates.

Although if he tried to, there's a good chance it would be mistaken for pleading insanity again.

[Gift Jeraff]

I dunno if anyone else caught the implication here. This is Tarquin's previous wife, who recently died under 'mysterious circumstances" shortly after blabbing about information regarding Girard. I think Tarquin knows what's up, but only recently. Nale wouldn't have told him, but he should know who Thog is (he's pictured in the panel with Team Tarquin vs the Linear Guild) and had him as a prisoner for some time. Thog's certainly dumb enough to spill what he knows about the Gates.

Thog was on a zany whirlwind adventure when Nale and Sabine first learned of the Gates, and was the Champion while Nale was (presumably) getting information out of Penelope. I don't think he knows anything about the Gates.

[factotum]

Except Orrin stole the girl and the money 15 years prior to Penelope meeting Tarquin. And cue the baseless theory that Tarquin is a time traveling villain.

Er, just a slight correction there--Orrin and Penelope *met* 15 years ago. Not 15 years before Penelope met Tarquin, 15 years before the current day. We don't know how long it was from that point to when the baby was born, and we don't know how long Penelope and Tarquin were together--presumably not *very* long, considering she was his ninth wife, but nonetheless it's impossible to say for sure exactly how long elapsed between Orrin's disappearance and Tarquin/Penelope's marriage.

[Burner28]

Liked the last line!

[brian 333]

Okay, now all the pieces are coming together.

Haley's dad is the guy in the prison who was freed by Roy. (Not the peg-leg guy.)

Haley's dad is also Orrin Draketooth, and her mother was Penelope.

I originally thought the freed gladiators were running back to the arena where they would be 'safe', but now I'm thinking they are headed to Girard's Gate at maximum movement for unencumbered humans.

[rolling 4]

Hah I love it as usual

Spoiler

Show

they failed. I love that line

[Ron Miel]

Nale wouldn't have told him, but he should know who Thog is .... Thog's certainly dumb enough to spill what he knows about the Gates.

What gate?
Hey, that's my line.

[Trixie]

I'm betting all my internets on:
bet 1: the 15yo daughter is called Lena (for being family of Elan/Nale).

Isn't she basically unrelated?

Also, why is Roy frowning in that last panel? He doesn't know what 'race flashback' was about, right?

[Dr.Epic]

What? No Girard!?

[Ron Miel]

... and we don't know how long Penelope and Tarquin were together--presumably not *very* long, considering she was his ninth wife,

Several years, at least. Nale knew his stepmother before he left, and he's been gone 2 years or more.

[dtilque]

Haley's dad is also Orrin Draketooth, and her mother was Penelope.

Suggestion¹: in the future, please read the thread before posting to it. That way you won't exhibit your ignorance of points that have been well established (this time by the Giant himself).

I originally thought the freed gladiators were running back to the arena where they would be 'safe', but now I'm thinking they are headed to Girard's Gate at maximum movement for unencumbered humans.

That may be, but not because Ian is Orrin Draketooth.



¹ Sometimes (as now) it would be a good thing if I could actually cast the spell of this name...

[Trixie]

Haley's comment, which would fit what we know. And if love was Orrin's only motive, why would he exclude his daughter's mother entirely?

Because he didn't wanted to keep her in danger, for example?

I have to agree with people above, I fail to see how Orrin is evil seeing what he did was basically getting a divorce. Of course, he might be still evil, but in the light of current evidence it's about as justified as calling Miko when she first meet the Order CE.

[Adanedhel]

I have to agree with people above, I fail to see how Orrin is evil seeing what he did was basically getting a divorce.

What he did was
1 abandoning his wife, not even saying he'd left
2 taking all the money that was hers before the marriage
3 abducting her child, there is no way around it, that was abduction

if this constitutes a normal divorce for you, I don't quite know what more to say...

[deworde]

The daughter is not Haley.

I don't normally say stuff like that so bluntly, but I thought it best to nip this one in the bud. Haley is 25 or so, Penelope's daughter would be 15. In fact, I put the line about it being 15 years in specifically to avoid people speculating that it was Haley.

What you should have done is added a panel where it's just you "Uncle Sam Needs You"'ing out with:
THE DAUGHTER
(pointing giant)
IS NOT HALEY!

[faustin]

What he did was
1 abandoning his wife, not even saying he'd left
2 taking all the money that was hers before the marriage
3 abducting her child, there is no way around it, that was abduction

if this constitutes a normal divorce for you, I don't quite know what more to say...

For now, we only have Tarquin´s version of the story. Even if he isn´t lying, we don´t know Orrin´s reasons yet.
Note: I´m not defending Draketooth, only avoiding to judge before knowing all the facts.

[TheCoolThatguy]

Because he didn't wanted to keep her in danger, for example?

I have to agree with people above, I fail to see how Orrin is evil seeing what he did was basically getting a divorce. Of course, he might be still evil, but in the light of current evidence it's about as justified as calling Miko when she first meet the Order CE.

How as his daughter in danger living a simple life?

And no, what he did wasn't a divorce. He kept the child's mother from ever seeing her daughter and stole her money. Hell, even Tarquin tried to avoid that!

[Bavarian itP]

Yay, another "morally justified?" thread. Except that this time, we don't even know enough facts to judge it

[Brumski]

Go Tarquin, representing my favorite alignment like a champ.

Also, why is Roy frowning in that last panel? He doesn't know what 'race flashback' was about, right?

Roy could be aware of the flashback panel, in one of the typical ways the characters know they are in a comic. 4th wall breakage and all that.

[Kish]

Also, why is Roy frowning in that last panel? He doesn't know what 'race flashback' was about, right?

Roy is frowning because Tarquin just related a tidbit about a group of heroic adventurers rushing to stop him and then chuckled, "Spoiler alert: They failed." And Roy does not find evil triumphing over good funny or appealing.

I have to agree with people above, I fail to see how Orrin is evil seeing what he did was basically getting a divorce.

So, your concept of a divorce is "clean out your spouse's family savings account, take your and your spouse's infant child, and disappear in the night, making sure you can't be followed"?

Good to know.

[Doug Lampert]

All this discussion about the (slim) possibility that Haley may be a Draketooth, I'm surprised that people are overlooking just how much of a scumbag the family seems to be.

Why shouldn't they be scumbags? Our previous information on them is that their presumed leader and founder leaves random high lethality booby traps around to try to kill paladins.

And we absolutely know that his precausions to ensure that the trap wouldn't hit the wrong people were a failure. And even if Girard had been right about Soon rather than 100.0000% wrong that would STILL have been a lethal trap aimed at an innocent paladin.

As is, his projection of his OWN complete disregard of their group's agreements onto Soon followed by his murderous plotting sort of gave the show away as to his moral character.

That's basically all we knew first hand about Draketooth prior to this comic. That he's a scumbag. That his followers/descendants who work with him are also scumbags acording to less reliable third hand information isn't shocking.

[Jay R]

For the record, we know that Orrin, the daughter, and the money left at the same time. We have guessed that Orrin took the daughter and the money.

The evidence is that all three disappeared together. All the rest of it came from Haley's speculation, based on projecting Ian's thoughts onto both Girard and Orrin.

We have to consider the possibility that Girard took the money and his granddaughter, and that Orrin pursued him to attempt a rescue. He might be held prisoner somewhere shielded from divination spells, and completely blameless.

[Bulldog Psion]

For the record, we know that Orrin, the daughter, and the money left at the same time. We have guessed that Orrin took the daughter and the money.

The evidence is that all three disappeared together. All the rest of it came from Haley's speculation, based on projecting Ian's thoughts onto both Girard and Orrin.

We have to consider the possibility that Girard took the money and his granddaughter, and that Orrin pursued him to attempt a rescue. He might be held prisoner somewhere shielded from divination spells, and completely blameless.

A very interesting possibility also. In a world as full of powerful creatures with mysterious agendas as the typical fantasy world, there could be quite a few different scenarios leading to Orrin's disappearance without his necessarily needing to be the guilty party. Good thinking!

[rbetieh]

I dunno if anyone else caught the implication here. This is Tarquin's previous wife, who recently died under 'mysterious circumstances" shortly after blabbing about information regarding Girard. I think Tarquin knows what's up, but only recently. Nale wouldn't have told him, but he should know who Thog is (he's pictured in the panel with Team Tarquin vs the Linear Guild) and had him as a prisoner for some time. Thog's certainly dumb enough to spill what he knows about the Gates.

Tarquin says she would start blabbing about it every time she drank. Odds are during the courtship, Tarquin found out about it, before anyone else, and he didnt kill her off right then so he didn't care. Nale cares because he knows 'Draketooth' is in possesion of a powerful magic gate that would allow him to rule the world. Unless Tarquin has been using psionics to steal the information from the Order while they sleep, I dont see where the information comes from. I'm pretty sure Nale doesnt spill the info to Thog, he just tells Thog things like "you get to use rocket skates!!!!"