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Thread: No way- best wizard race?
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2013-12-25, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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No way- best wizard race?
I believe I've found a combo that takes a race and an applicable +0 LA template that completely negates the drawbacks of a race. Take this-
Fire Elves: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Fire_Elves
and combine it with this: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b
You have the Fire Elf (OK wizard race IMO) which has a con hit. Apply this nearly free bonus of +2 con -2 dex and you can get wings! You'd have +2 int -2 cha wings and other elf stuff!
Is this possible, or did I make a mistake?SpoilerCurrently converting to 5th edition. Looks fabulous so far.
Playing a Dwarven Cleric and a Human Paladin.
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2013-12-25, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Seems about right. Dragonborn are pretty powerful. You lose a good number of the minor elf racial bonuses, but that's a less important thing.
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2013-12-25, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
DEX beats out CON for wizards.
Wizards have other easy flight options.
It is possible, but far from broken. Probably not even that optimal, knowing what goes around on these forums.I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.
Shadeblight by KennyPyro
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2013-12-25, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Well, I wouldn't say that they make the best choice for Wizards, but it's certainly an awesome idea.
Sweet Kobold from Vault 13 by ThePrez1776 !
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Homebrew:
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2013-12-25, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Necropolitan Gray Elf is generally better, or Necropolitan Fire Elf. The sticking point between the two is that Gray Elf qualifies for Faerie Mysteries Initiate while Fire Elf does not, meaning if the DM allows dragon magazine content (and doesn't ban FMI as being broken as ****) Gray Elf is significantly better.
Necropolitan gives them D12 hitdie and undead qualities (including no con score), which is much better for HP than negating the con penalty. Undead immunities are also very nice for wizards, especially compared to flight which, as stated, they have easy access to via other means.
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2013-12-25, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
You made a small mistake: the "mechanics of rebirth" sidebar referenced in the link explains what you keep and what you lose from your original race, and the other elf stuff is among the things you lose. So you get +2 int, -2 cha, and the dragonborn racial traits. Not bad, but hardly overpowered.
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2013-12-25, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2013-12-25, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
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2013-12-25, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Humans are best, or Gray Elves.
Last edited by ArqArturo; 2013-12-25 at 10:27 PM.
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2013-12-25, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
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2013-12-25, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-25, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
What I wanna know is can fire creature with the +2 Int and -2 Cha be stacked with Grey elf?
If so, do that, tack on Magic Blooded, and then Necropolitan. Snag Fearie Mysteries Initiate and Keen Intellect."I Burn!"
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2013-12-25, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Fire Elves are one of the elemental races from unearthed arcana. It's not a template that gets applied to things, it's just another version of the base elf race. So sadly they don't stack.
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2013-12-25, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Constitution does not have to be too major a concern, as all it governs is Fort saves and HP. HP can be fixed with the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat. Fort saves can be bumped through saves gear, a feat, location,etc. and negated either 1/encounter with a Diamond Mind Maneuver item, or permanently be being either Necropolitan (suggested) or Wyrwood (PF only).
Not for use in every game but great for the games you canLast edited by Vortenger; 2013-12-25 at 11:14 PM.
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2013-12-26, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-26, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Seconding Kennisou, Necropolitage Grey Elf beats Dragonborn Fire Elf in my eyes. Of course, both are pretty thematic choices for your wizard.
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2013-12-26, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-26, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
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2013-12-26, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
I'm still a big fan of Primordial Menta Cyclopeans with -4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Int, +4 Cha, skill bonuses to Spellcraft and UMD, choice of three SLAs at will, including invisibility, and a minor bonus to SLA caster level. Slap on Arctic and you are good to go.
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2013-12-26, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-26, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
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2013-12-26, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
For a Wizard, probably; the Dex bonus is good, Small size is generally preferable for a caster (AC bonus and to-hit bonus that stack with dang near everything), spells largely don't care about your size, and Wizards usually aren't so hard up for skill points that they really care about giving that up.
There are some noteworthy Human-only things (Able Learner feat and the Chameleon prestige class are probably the most significant) but I don't think there are any that a Wizard much cares about.
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2013-12-26, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Gray elf is about as good as you get if you like Elven Generalist. If you don't want to be a generalist, human is better unless/until DCFS is online, at which point you really want to be some kind of elf. And arguably, with no DCFS, human's better even for generalists, since feats are hugely important. Especially if your PrC of choice requires any.
I'm pretty sure that going dragonborn removes any bonus feats you get from your race, and to me, feats beat stats. But I guess that's assuming a few things about starting level and desired op level.
Oh, also, races with a weird type (elans, neraphim, etc.) are great in the early game for Alter Self shenanigans. Late game it won't matter, but it's relevant for longer than you might think.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
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2013-12-26, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2013-12-26, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
For wizard the best races tend to be Necropolitan Gray/Fire Elf, Dragonwrought Kobold, Whisper Gnome, Strongheart Halfling, Human, Non-necropolitan gray/fire elf, In that order (although I'm probably forgetting something). Whisper Gnome is often considered better than strongheart halfling just because the gnome racial benefits are a lot better than whatever bonus feat you're picking up at level one, usually. Without some way of negating the fire/gray elf con penalty, you generally are outperformed by humans. Kobold may not be as good as I'm giving it credit for.
Also, it is worth noting there's one advantage that Human has over strongheart halfling: 30 base movespeed. With the many movement modes accessible to Wizard, many of which are not based on base movespeed, this stops being important, but at early levels the wizard definitely appreciates it.
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2013-12-26, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
So, quick question on Necropolitan. Does it full out remove the need to make fort saves? Cause if so, yeah, that's pretty hard to top on top of removing the con stat from play and giving a d12 hit die.
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2013-12-26, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Plus this means you can dump CON and put the points elsewhere. And if your DM is daft enough to let you actually use Faerie Mysteries Initiate, you're going to probably have the highest HP total in your entire party anyway!
No, but many of the common things that require fort saves do not work on Undead for other reasons (poisons, diseases, negative energy, death effects, etc.)
Disintegrate is the big exception, which is part of why it's often considered an undead-killer. Luckily there are various ways to raise your saves -- or you can put the points you would have put in Con into Dex to raise your touch AC and avoid getting hit by it in the first place.Last edited by Aquillion; 2013-12-26 at 05:31 PM.
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2013-12-26, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: No way- best wizard race?
Additionally, you have immunity to death from massive damage as an undead iirc, which also requires a fort save.
But yeah, necropolitan wizards are a tad weak against the few fort effects that they're not immune to. You have non-fort means of countering all of them, though, so if you do things like pump your touch AC via dex, luck, dodge, and defelection effects, grabbing spell resistance, getting immunities... you have means at your disposal.
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2013-12-26, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-26, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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