LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

[Asta Kask]

What do you do about non-binary peeps then?

'skepqueer'

[Astrella]

RE: slurs

I don't mind people reclaiming slurs used against them. The only problem I sometimes have is people who go "I have friends who are Y and are okay with me calling them X, so it's okay for me to call everyone who is Y X". I myself don't though in most cases because I can't really shake of the negative connotations.

[KenderWizard]

Oh my god, I hate when that happens. The tears end up multiplying whatever emotion brought them on and you end up having to fume for like an hour.
[/COLOR]

I know, it always makes things worse!

It just doesn't make any sense.
Also, I used to carry a couple of tampons and pads in case anybody asked in my presence. Most people don't ask their guy friends if they have any spare tampons, but I wanted to be the exception to that.

That's so cute! And thoughtful! It's really annoying to be caught without the necessaries. You have to engage in the tricky process of deciding who is most likely to be willing and able to help and then isolate them. Then sometimes they can't help, and you have to start again! Because you're not supposed to say "Excuse me, everyone! I'm menstruating, and my uterus blood is leaking! Does anyone have any sanitary products I could use?".

So, skepchick did a nice article about transwoman myths. Thought I'd get your opinions.

Thank you for linking!

[Pseudoscience] [Theoretical]

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As a random tangent, and presupposing there is any actual value in astrology; most people tend to be bad scientists and dismiss the art based on sla small sampling of terrible evidence.

A person's astrological make-up consists of the entire sky system, and how they intercorrelate at the time of birth. A full star chart is a rather extensive document and while the sun sign is most visible, it's not the end all be all. The relationship between stars and planets is actually more important than any individual location.

Even though it's purposefully vague to allow leeway, a lot of full star charts tend to be surprisingly accurate. It's mostly coincidental I'm sure, but there is always value in noticing patterns and cycles, and working to change them for the better. Astrology is interesting as a paradigm that can be used when convenient, as a lens through which to examine trends. It's all in the presentation.

Astrology

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I agree with Nix; people, even people who know better, love to see patterns where there are none. It's how our brains work. Which is fine, people are allowed to see all the patterns they like. The problem arises when unscrupulous people use this tendency against vulnerable people, to take their money in exchange for mumbo jumbo. Which is also allowed, I suppose, since people can spend their money on what they like, but it seems icky to me.

Anyway, there's one thing saying that if we could accurately map the stars at the moment of every persons birth, we could correlate all the data and make predictions, to see if they would be more accurate than randomised predictions (I would guess not, but it would be fun to check). Horoscopes in newspapers and magazines are quite another thing. They're traditionally given to the most junior member of staff, who writes vague things on purpose.

Ugh, yes! I'm all "take me seriously, dammit! These tears are making me seem less serious, but I really am pissed off!" And it also gets me paranoid that the person making me angry, especially if they're male, will be all "quit turning on the waterworks just to make me the bad guy!" - and my last boyfriend actually confirmed that for me, I had to explain to him that I don't make myself cry, and if I could I would stop it because, as I said, it means I don't get taken seriously.

I know, right?! Crying is awful, it makes you all damp and tired and people stare at you. I can't control it! If I could, I would cry WAY less!

Aren't there enough problems with pronouns? This system would make referring to genderqueer people even more challenging! Though I suppose they would get to chose their own suffix.

I want to choose my own suffix too! I identify as female but I don't want to be Kenderchick. .... Actually, that's cuter than I thought it would be. But "chick" is kind of infantilising, in a way that "dude" isn't. Kenderqueer is way better.

[Astrella]

RE: Crying

Something I thought about earlier; I've been crying a lot more (or definitely a lot easier) since I've been coming to terms with my gender woes. I used to only cry when things got really confrontational (when fighting with the parents for example), but now it seems that pretty much anything sad / happy / emotional can cause me to start sobbing. I don't mind it, because it let's me relieve / express my emotions, but it's just sorta curious. Now, I've heard from other trans folk that HRT messes with your ability to cry (trans woman finding it a lot easier to cry; trans men finding that being on T makes them almost incapable of crying (not necessarily everyone though), but I'm still pre-everything. I wonder if it's just a mental blockage or something similar that's gone.

Edit: Can I send someone(s) a PM about a couple of semi-trans related matters? (Don't worry, it's board safe; and anyone can help me out with it I think.)

[Lissou]

I think the idea of bras is that the weight is mostly held by the wide bit that goes around your torso. The shoulder straps are for keeping everything the right shape and together. You're supposed to be able to slide your finger under your shoulder strap easily. I don't know, my breasts are only a little above average, but certainly all the people with larger breasts I know found it difficult to get bras alright, but were generally sorted after a good fitting and a proper sturdy bra.

I'm aware that's where the support should come from, but by the time a "bra" has a band wide enough to provide enough support (as in, I can take the straps off and the bra still provides support) it's reached the stage of being a corset. I found that when I wear bras, even the right size (and I was professionally fitted countless times) the bands just can't do it on their own, some of the support comes from the straps. It's possible it's due to my specific body shapes, of course, but yeah, as a result I just don't wear them except for exercising and sexy time.

[Asta Kask]

I want to choose my own suffix too! I identify as female but I don't want to be Kenderchick. .... Actually, that's cuter than I thought it would be. But "chick" is kind of infantilising, in a way that "dude" isn't. Kenderqueer is way better.

Kendergirl?
Kenderwoman?

[noparlpf]

Kendergirl?
Kenderwoman?

What is she, a superhero?

[Asta Kask]

I think so. What are your superpowers, Kenderwoman?

[SMEE]

Hello thread, I am having some uncertainties regarding my gender/sexuality, and this struck me as an appropriate place to ask for advice. First some background, and this may get convoluted at points, but I will try to keep it simple. I am a 22 year old male from the southeast US. At third grade, my parents pulled me from public school and I was homeschooled until college.
They have since mellowed out a great deal, but I essentially grew up without any other way of thinking save the one I was taught. I've been at college a couple years now. I have had to rethink a lot of my beliefs and views on both the world and myself. Simply because this is the first time I haven't been shackled to a particular way of thinking and can actually try to find out what it is I actually think and feel.

One thing that has become more and more of an area of concern for me is my gender/sexuality. I am male, and as far as sexual attraction goes, I like women. When I am around them I am attracted to them in a way I am not to men. However, ever since I hit puberty I have also been having heterosexual sexual fantasies, but in the fantasies, I am the female, not the male. This is not the only fantasy I've had, but it has stayed with me for a long time, and has been my chief one for a while now. When I play an rpg or other game, if I can make my character female, I will, even if I know nothing sexual is going to happen in the game. I tend to use female avatars on forums.

Owing to my present circumstances, I cannot really explore this aspect of myself in real life, and it is confined to the internet and the privacy of my room. In a couple years I should be able to freely explore this more thoroughly, but for the moment I have to keep it under wraps. The obvious thought is that this is just some strange fetish I have that will go away eventually. What concerns me is the persistance of it, and the fact my family does have a history of transexuality. One of my aunts(male->female) came out as trans when I was a child. She has been largely ostracised by the family. I don't know how to get in touch with her and trying to find out will likely arouse suspicion I cannot afford right now. I've tried to think back to any gender role aberations as a child, and can only remember one. I tried to puff out my lips to make them look like a girl I knew. This is fairly minor, and happened before I was homeschooled, but is really the only incident I remember before puberty. I also tried on some of my mom's clothes when my parents were out, but this happened after puberty and for only a short period of time. Basically, my question is, how do you know if you are trans? I don't feel especially bad putting on male clothes, but it perplexes me that the bulk of my fantasy life revolves around turning into a girl. The liking girls but fantasizing about being a heterosexual girl is just plain contradictory. Shouldn't I still be attracted to girls regardless of whether I am trans or not? I just don't know what to make of all this, and don't have anyone I feel comfortable telling this to in real life. Any thoughts or suggestions? Sorry about the wall of text.

tl;dr How do I tell if I am trans or something else?

We got this email recently at the anonmail.

[Serpentine]

Personally, to me that sounds something like "could be an indication of transexuality or similar, or could simply be a quirk of fantasising; the fact it concerns you enough to comment on it suggests more strongly towards the former, but if that is the only place such things manifests it's more likely the latter", but what do I know? Either way, I suppose, "more introspection required".

Milder ones are okay though, as are the more lyrical ones like 'arsebandit'. 'Cause you know, they sound kinda funny.

Purely out of curiosity, how do you feel about pillowbiter and fudgepacker?

[Arachu]

I have an off-topic question:
How do people here feel about "owning" slurs? I know some people who dislike the idea, but I also know a guy(Trans-dude) who calls himself a "tranny" all the time, and several other people who do similar. I, personally, frequently refer to myself as a "flaming ***."

How do you people feel about it? Do you people do that?

My sister (biological cousin) and I call weird or confusing things gay sometimes, as a sort of hypocritical joke. We also make really misogynistic jokes here and there, but in such a way that we actually mock misogynists.

We don't do this so much in public, partly because people would misunderstand our point and partly because we're already talking about whatever it is we happen to be doing at the time.

I'm pretty sure I was never called a ***, but that's probably because no-one who would say it has known. If and when I'm referred to as such, I'll obnoxiously retort "damn straight".

Thank you for linking!

What the Wizard said... Only, with a mustache.

RE: Crying

Something I thought about earlier; I've been crying a lot more (or definitely a lot easier) since I've been coming to terms with my gender woes. I used to only cry when things got really confrontational (when fighting with the parents for example), but now it seems that pretty much anything sad / happy / emotional can cause me to start sobbing. I don't mind it, because it let's me relieve / express my emotions, but it's just sorta curious. Now, I've heard from other trans folk that HRT messes with your ability to cry (trans woman finding it a lot easier to cry; trans men finding that being on T makes them almost incapable of crying (not necessarily everyone though), but I'm still pre-everything. I wonder if it's just a mental blockage or something similar that's gone.

I've been crying pretty easily, too. It's definitely psychology, as I have more testosterone overall than I did last year (at that time, crying was almost impossible). It's hard to tell I have more testosterone, though - I've finally gotten an electric razor, I've started using conditioner and my paleness makes my lips look slightly pink. Take that, biology!

I think it gets easier because we can finally take a break. There was always something bothering us before, and now that it's getting better it's finally possible to relax.

Edit: Can I send someone(s) a PM about a couple of semi-trans related matters? (Don't worry, it's board safe; and anyone can help me out with it I think.)

You can talk with me, if you'd like. I can't say whether I'll be much help, but I'll try.

[Serpentine]

My sister (biological cousin) and I call weird or confusing things gay sometimes, as a sort of hypocritical joke. We also make really misogynistic jokes here and there, but in such a way that we actually mock misogynists.

I quite like using it thusly:
"You (male) love your girlfriend? Gaaaaay."
"A dude making out with another dude?! That's so gay!"

[noparlpf]

I have an off-topic question:
How do people here feel about "owning" slurs? I know some people who dislike the idea, but I also know a guy(Trans-dude) who calls himself a "tranny" all the time, and several other people who do similar. I, personally, frequently refer to myself as a "flaming ***."

How do you people feel about it? Do you people do that?

Well, I never use slurs as slurs and almost never even say them. I do, however, make sexist jokes (about both men and women) "to be ironic". In retrospect, I think I spent the semester trolling my Gender Studies class. I don't usually makes jokes like that in public, though. Only around certain people, like my mother or a female friend who I like to tease.
It's only recently that I've accepted "queer" as a semi-legitimate way to refer to non-heteronormative people instead of as a slur/no-no word.

Edit:
RE: Crying
I used to cry more when I was younger, but I'm going to write that off as adolescent hormones so as to protect my masculine image. (See, there's a bit of that sexist humor. It's ironic because I don't believe it.) I haven't been able to cry lately for some reason, and I wonder if it's because of the SSRI I started last month. It feels like it dampens all of my emotions except for violent urges, which is something I think I'm going to talk to my counselor about when I get back to school. Anyway, I haven't been able to cry lately, even when I wanted to. I can't offer anything else because I'm not trans, so I can't say how that would affect it.

[Ashen Lilies]

Purely out of curiosity, how do you feel about pillowbiter and fudgepacker?

Never heard 'pillowbiter' before. Not a big fan of 'fudgepacker', mostly because it's, well, kinda gross.
(I will not have 'fudge' anywhere near my privates thank you very much. )
But it doesn't make me uncomfortable the way that three-letter-one-that-can-be-extended-to-rhyme-with-'maggot' does.

I dunno. I just really like 'arsebandit' (or the Americanized term, 'asspirate') as a word. It just sounds so... poetic.
Hur hur hur, '****' Turpin, hur hur hur.
I bet if people called me that more often, being gay (well, bi) would be about a thousand times more awesome (not that it needs the help ).

Also, it reminds me of this sketch every time I hear it, which is always a good thing.

[Astrella]

*snip*

Okies, let me start of by saying that discovering your gender identity can be something very complicated. There's only one person who can really figure it out though, and that's yourself; each trans* person's experience is difference after all. I think you can say that the requirement for being trans* is suffering some form of gender dysphoria.

You said you feel uncomfortable with wearing male clothes? How do you feel about people addressing you as male / being seen as male by people? Do you also have discomfort with your body setup? (Again, these aren't absolute 'requirements' for being trans*, it's hardly list of check boxes to mark; being trans* that is.)

What helped figuring out things for me was exploring my female identity online; by presenting as female. That can be very useful to see how it feels being addressed / seen as a woman. (I'm excluding other identities with this, but going with what you wrote. D: )

Does it limit itself to sexual fantasies? It could just be a kind / fetish of yours (nothing wrong with this off course), but again, that's something you need to figure out.

Edit: What does pillowbiter mean? :o

I quite like using it thusly:
"You (male) love your girlfriend? Gaaaaay."
"A dude making out with another dude?! That's so gay!"

Like this?

[Ashen Lilies]

Presumably it's something you do when you've got some big burly bloke behind you doing some 'high seas raiding'.

[Serpentine]

Okies, let me start of by saying that discovering your gender identity can be something very complicated. There's only one person who can really figure it out though, and that's yourself; each trans* person's experience is difference after all. I think you can say that the requirement for being trans* is suffering some form of gender dysphoria.

I'd like to say, though, that there's really no need to jump to the conclusion that he's any form of trans. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I think failing to take into account the possibility that it's just a quirk of his fantasising is as bad as discounting the possibility it's something more. I know you acknowledge this possibility later in your post, but it kinda feels like you're leaping into "woo, trans!" sorta territory.

You said you feel uncomfortable with wearing male clothes?

He actually said "don't feel especially bad"

As for pillowbiter... Consider the image?

edit:

Like this?

Indeed
But also... I don't even know what the "labelling something clearly heterosexual as gay" bit comes under.

[Kneenibble]

Urge to paint traumatizing mental pictures rising...

It's like in old timey movies when they give the woman in labour that little stick to bite on so she doesn't chomp off her tongue or crack her teeth: except a pillow is the only thing nearby, because generally butt pirates aren't flexible enough to get their wooden leg anywhere near your mouth. Comparable flavours of pain, though, depending on the pirate.



I'll show myself out.

[Arachu]

Personally, to me that sounds something like "could be an indication of transexuality or similar, or could simply be a quirk of fantasising; the fact it concerns you enough to comment on it suggests more strongly towards the former, but if that is the only place such things manifests it's more likely the latter", but what do I know? Either way, I suppose, "more introspection required".Purely out of curiosity, how do you feel about pillowbiter and fudgepacker?

Could be that Inquirer is genderfluid or bigender, and/or attracted to the act of heterosexual sex itself rather than a specific gender. It sounds fascinating, honestly.

I'm not too fond of fudgepacker - not because it's vulgar, but because it reminds me of a biological process I don't like to think about anyway. Pillowbiter, on the other hand... I haven't heard it before, but assuming I know what it means I like it.

It occurs to me that I don't mind *** as much when it isn't suffixed with -got. Curious... :chinscratch:

Urge to paint traumatizing mental pictures rising...

It's like in old timey movies when they give the woman in labour that little stick to bite on so she doesn't chomp off her tongue or crack her teeth: except a pillow is the only thing nearby, because generally butt pirates aren't flexible enough to get their wooden leg anywhere near your mouth. Comparable flavours of pain, though, depending on the pirate.



I'll show myself out.

Right, that's what I thought it meant.

I'll just... Uh... Be in my bunk...

[Asta Kask]

Queer, according to Will over at Queereka.

Where there is culture, there are norms; and where concepts like gender, sex, and sexuality exist, there are norms for these categories. It is those that do not fit neatly into these categories of norms that I will consider to be queer. I realize it can be problematic to use this term–especially with people who do not use it for themselves. So, I will always endeavor to use whatever terms people use to describe themselves; however, when I fail to find an adequate term, I will use the term “queer” as an umbrella term for non-normative gender and sexuality.

[Ashen Lilies]

I'll go get the ice bucket...

[Astrella]

I'd like to say, though, that there's really no need to jump to the conclusion that he's any form of trans. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I think failing to take into account the possibility that it's just a quirk of his fantasising is as bad as discounting the possibility it's something more. I know you acknowledge this possibility later in your post, but it kinda feels like you're leaping into "woo, trans!" sorta territory.
He actually said "don't feel especially bad"

's why I added the bit at the end. I was just worrying a bit about how to formulate it; because I didn't wanna seem dismissing someone's possible trans*ness as a fantasy quirk. (And the first bit was more a general note cause he asked "how do you know if you're trans?")

Edit: Oops, misread about the clothes too.

Edit2: Libra "apologized" about the add. Seems a bit of a week excuse though. (Also, "implied transgender people aren't real women (sic)"; pretty sure a lot of transgender people aren't women. )

[Coidzor]

This might be of interest. In a sort of feeble steps towards the future way.

My sister (biological cousin) and I call weird or confusing things gay sometimes, as a sort of hypocritical joke. We also make really misogynistic jokes here and there, but in such a way that we actually mock misogynists.

You've got some reading to do, then.

[Asta Kask]

This might be of interest. In a sort of feeble steps towards the future way.

I remember the first I heard about something similar. A guy was missing a key protein in spermatogenesis. BUT, these proteins are highly conserved between species, so they took a part of his testicles and transplanted to a hamster. Hamster sperm and human sperm look very different, so after a suitable time period they ehh... milked the hamster and extracted the human cells. And nine months later, a bouncing baby was born!

[noparlpf]

This might be of interest. In a sort of feeble steps towards the future way.

That's pretty neat, I guess.
But what if that means that soon scientists can just keep some testicles in a lab and then we won't need men anymore at all? The crazy man-hating lesbian feminists will kill us all off! (/notserious)

You've got some reading to do, then.

I always hope that other people are rational enough to think that what I'm saying is too ridiculous to be true, and they always think I'm being serious. Perhaps I need to change my approach to the world.

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah? Well I'm a... a... Libra. v.v

*shuffles uncomfortably out of thread*

Me too. I'm just not sure what to think of this stuff, The scales of accuracy vs fail are pretty balanced.

Of course. And it was her fairy nobles who imprisoned her and sent us off on a suicide mission, so she was pretty pissed.

But but but that would mean having to write it out, and not only would it sound really dumb, it'd be really hard and time-consuming!
I might've put a summary in a thread I made a while ago about in-head-stories, though. If you like I'll do another overview, but it's pretty silly...

I waaaaaant iiit

We got this email recently at the anonmail.

Just curious, I had the thought, why don't we make an account for being anonymous? Could put password and username in the first post?
Probably been shot down before, but curious.

[Asta Kask]

I don't think that would fly with the moderators. An account anyone can log in to is a gaping hole in the security.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't think that would fly with the moderators. An account anyone can log in to is a gaping hole in the security.

Exactly. Anonmail may not be the best, but it's better than a hole in security that large.

[KenderWizard]

Crying:

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I cry a lot, since I was about 16, which was the lowest point of my school career, what with the bullying and ostracism and such. My theory is I kind of broke my crying blocker at that point, because I was so unhappy and stuck with groups of people. Before that, I was able to not cry if I was in front of people, but now I've kind of lost that ability. Once you've cried a whole bunch in public for a couple of years, it's really hard to convince yourself that awful things will happen if you do so you better hold it in until you get home. (What does happen is the staring and awkward conversations with teachers. REALLY awkward, sometimes. But you get used to all that.) But yeah, by 18, teachers had started to yell at me for crying because I'd done it so much they assumed I was putting it on, but yelling at a distressed person ONLY MAKES THEM WORSE. And then they thought I was putting it on EVEN HARDER to get out of trouble. I hated school.

about a couple of semi-trans related matters? (Don't worry, it's board safe; and anyone can help me out with it I think.)

I can try to help, if you're still looking!

I'm aware that's where the support should come from, but by the time a "bra" has a band wide enough to provide enough support (as in, I can take the straps off and the bra still provides support) it's reached the stage of being a corset. I found that when I wear bras, even the right size (and I was professionally fitted countless times) the bands just can't do it on their own, some of the support comes from the straps. It's possible it's due to my specific body shapes, of course, but yeah, as a result I just don't wear them except for exercising and sexy time.

Ah, that makes sense.

Kendergirl?
Kenderwoman?

What is she, a superhero?

I think so. What are your superpowers, Kenderwoman?

Talking? Feminism? Laughing uncontrollably? Wow, I hope I can fly!

[Eldest]

Re: Inquirer
I have the same habit with female characters and games, but I am male and happy that way. I don't know what to say about the fantasies, but I can tell you that usually playing female characters doesn't have to be about wanting to be that sex. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.