My attempt at a wizard spell - Armor Transposition

[killem2]

Armor Transposition
Conjuration (Transportation)
Level: Sorcerer 2, Wizard 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long
Target: Two + two creature/level, creatures of same size and type.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Seeing the mix of enemies on the battlefield, you use your trickery to switch the armor worn by two creatures.

Any number of target creatures of the same size upto the maximum, of which one can be you, swap all armor and clothing, even if proficiency to use such armor is not available. Both subjects must be with in range. All normal penalities and bonuses apply. This swap fits the armor perfectly and does not count as being donned hastily.

In addition, if any of the armor being switched is magical, its saving throw is added to the targets saving throw, and that amount is 2 + 1/2 the caster level of the item.

Focus: A miniature figureine of a warrior.

[General Patton]

This is surprisingly awesome, especially when used to nullify class features. Also, potentially hilarious. I suggest that the material components be a slug and a snail.

[Silva Stormrage]

This is surprisingly awesome, especially when used to nullify class features. Also, potentially hilarious. I suggest that the material components be a slug and a snail.

A slug and a snail would be somewhat hard to keep in a spell component pouch. Alive at least

Though this is an interesting spell. I would suggest making it target more creatures. Maybe 2 creatures plus one per 3 or 4 caster levels above 5. You need to compare this spell vs slow, stinking cloud, and other similar third level spells. Or maybe reduce the spell level to level two.

Also a question. What happens when you switch say, a ogre's suit of full plate to an ooze or another large sized creature that can't wear normal armor?

[killem2]

Good questions all around, to which I really don't have answers, but only attempts to chance.

What if we make it two creatures same size, and... race? template? I'm not sure the word to use.

Also, maybe I need to require that the two have armor/clothing on.

[Kalegkos]

Good idea, honestly. How about the duration of the spell? Also what if the wizard suddenly wears Heavy armor? How about spellcasting? Will that be ok? I think it's a little bit overrated.

[Steward]

True. You should probably include some kind of boilerplate to make sure a black pudding doesn't end up wearing full plate.

How about the duration of the spell?

I think it should stay instantaneous. You're switching the armor. If they want to switch back, they can strip naked and do it the old-fashioned way. Or cast the same spell again!

Also what if the wizard suddenly wears Heavy armor? How about spellcasting? Will that be ok?

I think the idea of the spell is to create a fun way to hinder spellcasters and other people who depend on either not wearing armor or not wearing a specific type of armor...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Also, maybe I need to require that the two have armor/clothing on.

Nah. It's funnier this way. I would go ahead and lower the level to 2, or even to 1-- it's really not that powerful a spell, compared to some of the others, and requires clever use to preform at its full capacity.

[killem2]

Ok I updated it. I did require certain size and type. Having a barding switch with a wizard just.. well I don't know it doesn't seem right LOL.

[Kalegkos]

True. You should probably include some kind of boilerplate to make sure a black pudding doesn't end up wearing full plate.



I think it should stay instantaneous. You're switching the armor. If they want to switch back, they can strip naked and do it the old-fashioned way. Or cast the same spell again!



I think the idea of the spell is to create a fun way to hinder spellcasters and other people who depend on either not wearing armor or not wearing a specific type of armor...

Switching armors? I don't think so. Think of wearing a full heavy armor? Tales lots of time to wear-unwear it. And what about the strength? If one doens't have enough?

[Steward]

Switching armors? I don't think so. Think of wearing a full heavy armor? Tales lots of time to wear-unwear it. And what about the strength? If one doens't have enough?

I think that's the point of the spell, actually. If you use this spell to put heavy plate on a weakling wizard, it'll take 1d4+1 minutes to take it off (as per the SRD), and if the wizard isn't proficient with the armor, s/he'll take the penalty for that in the meantime.

[almightyk]

A slug and a snail would be somewhat hard to keep in a spell component pouch. Alive at least

Though this is an interesting spell. I would suggest making it target more creatures. Maybe 2 creatures plus one per 3 or 4 caster levels above 5. You need to compare this spell vs slow, stinking cloud, and other similar third level spells. Or maybe reduce the spell level to level two.

Also a question. What happens when you switch say, a ogre's suit of full plate to an ooze or another large sized creature that can't wear normal armor?

why that's simple. if you are wearing pants but i am not, we both decide to swap what is worn on the legs. i get your pants and you get my nothing

[almightyk]

Nah. It's funnier this way. I would go ahead and lower the level to 2, or even to 1-- it's really not that powerful a spell, compared to some of the others, and requires clever use to preform at its full capacity.

first level! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

that could be game breaking right at the start


although i would love to see one turn that into an at will power due to it only being 1st level

[Grod_The_Giant]

first level! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

that could be game breaking right at the start

Not so much. First level spells include Grease, Sleep, Charm Person, and Color Spray, all of which can be devastating. I really don't think that this is that devastating a debuff. Compare it to Hold Person (a third level) or Blindness/Deafness (a second level). About the nastiest thing you could do would be to drop some half-plate on a wizard, but they'd have a pretty good chance of making the save.

[almightyk]

Not so much. First level spells include Grease, Sleep, Charm Person, and Color Spray, all of which can be devastating. I really don't think that this is that devastating a debuff. Compare it to Hold Person (a third level) or Blindness/Deafness (a second level). About the nastiest thing you could do would be to drop some half-plate on a wizard, but they'd have a pretty good chance of making the save.

exactly
its a 1st level mage stop spell
just ready to cast it when the mage goes to cast a spell

due to the disruption it will call for a concentration check.
say you have 18 in your ability (at level 1)
the save dc will be 15
considering how low concentration is at that point, the odds are against them succeeding, not to mention following it up with the asf check

[killem2]

ok. I changed it to level 1, you guys convinced me.

[almightyk]

should i point out that an unlimited use command word item of this would be extremely cheap as a first level spell

[Siosilvar]

exactly
its a 1st level mage stop spell
just ready to cast it when the mage goes to cast a spell

due to the disruption it will call for a concentration check.
say you have 18 in your ability (at level 1)
the save dc will be 15
considering how low concentration is at that point, the odds are against them succeeding, not to mention following it up with the asf check

...And the difference between that and taking them out of the fight for 10 rounds with a Will save, taking them out of the fight for 8.5 rounds on average with a Will save, or making them not want to fight you for an hour with a Will save is...?

[killem2]

should i point out that an unlimited use command word item of this would be extremely cheap as a first level spell

And how many level 1s can snag such an item?

[almightyk]

...And the difference between that and taking them out of the fight for 10 rounds with a Will save, taking them out of the fight for 8.5 rounds on average with a Will save, or making them not want to fight you for an hour with a Will save is...?

2 things
1) this does not lose effectiveness versus tougher enemies
2)it has other uses

[killem2]

It the spells defense, i would like to point out, that if another wizard had it prepared on the enemies side, (being level 1 should be common) a willing target could just let it switch back negating your attempt.

Also, not all tougher enemies have armor reliant aspect.

[Zaydos]

When comparing it to Sleep you have to remember that Sleep has a casting time of 1 round, which means they have a full turn to hit you and disrupt it or to just spread out so you can only target one creature.

Color Spray has a 15-ft range and weakens as you level rather quickly (most low level creatures have HD > CR).

Charm Person only affects humanoids, gives them a +5 to saves if you or your allies have attacked them, a range of 25-ft (instead of 400), is stopped by Protection from Evil.

This should be a 2nd level spell; I can see it as a 3rd level spell as it actually gets better at higher levels (if your DM uses creatures with classes) though I think that's probably too high. The number of targets is greater, the range is greater, and the only one of the three that compares in those has a 4 HD limit (meaning it doesn't compare in targets) in addition to a 1 round casting time and the fact that their allies can spend a standard action to wake them up.

[Silva Stormrage]

Yes I agree that it should be a second level spell. A first level spell is too low level for it. While it DOES lose effectiveness later levels if you fight monsters without armor its too good low levels to be a first level spell. Color Spray makes the d4 hd wizard vulnerable sleep requires a full round action and others all have downsides, this really doesn't except that it is situational.

If you want to make a second spell thats similar it might be funny to have a spell that swaps a held item.

[almightyk]

im also thinking the apammage and gamebreaking of swapping the bosses "armour of indestrucibility that needs a puzzle to be solved to apply any damage to the wearer" with your basic leather armour

[killem2]

Can't armor make saving throws? I wonder if that could be worked in? Thoughts?

Also, changed to level 2 spell.

[almightyk]

Can't armor make saving throws? I wonder if that could be worked in? Thoughts?

Also, changed to level 2 spell.

only if it was intelligent armour

[killem2]

only if it was intelligent armour

What if we built in a second hurdle, that has some sort of DC check if the armor is magical?

[Grod_The_Giant]

The spell does have a Will save. I was under the impression that that meant that the targets had to make will saves or the effect was negated. The save DC would be extremely low if cast from an item. Higher-level characters will probably be able to make the save DC-- and if you're targeting only enemies, that's two chances per casting for the spell to fail. Short of dumping half-plate on a caster (who'll probably make the save), it's probably a less effective first level debuff than, say, ray of enfeeblement.

EDIT: I missed the one pair/level part. That bit makes it quite strong. 2nd or 3rd level would be about right for that kind of targeting.

[killem2]

The spell does have a Will save. I was under the impression that that meant that the targets had to make will saves or the effect was negated. The save DC would be extremely low if cast from an item. Higher-level characters will probably be able to make the save DC-- and if you're targeting only enemies, that's two chances per casting for the spell to fail. Short of dumping half-plate on a caster (who'll probably make the save), it's probably a less effective first level debuff than, say, ray of enfeeblement.

EDIT: I missed the one pair/level part. That bit makes it quite strong. 2nd or 3rd level would be about right for that kind of targeting.

You are understanding correct, it does have a will save.

Kinda funny you mention the one pair per level, it got add because people above said it was too weak.

So lets get it out of the way now folks, :D, should it be 1 pair per level, a flat two targets, or scale differently?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Kinda funny you mention the one pair per level, it got add because people above said it was too weak.

So lets get it out of the way now folks, :D, should it be 1 pair per level, a flat two targets, or scale differently?

It depends on what level you want it to be. One pair would, I maintain, be a 1st level pair. One pair/level might be 3rd level worthy. On pair/2 levels or /3 levels might be 2nd level.

[Ashtagon]

As well as screwing with wizards by dumping plate armour on them, it can also screw warriors by stripping them naked.

And if an enemy wizard strips the party meatshield of his +5 megabonus full plate, he isn't going to be happy. Especially if the hobgoblin warrior he placed it on is under orders to flee, using the rest of the gobbo horde as a shield.

Also, magical armour should be allowed a save to resist this spell if the armour's save is better than the wearing character's (better yet, allow two separate saves, to avoid this kind of magic armour theft against PCs).