Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[thubby]

Why not? He's an old man, and she's the captain most focused on hand to hand combat. Sure he'd kick her ass in a fight, but if we look only at physical strength I don't see a problem.

he disintegrated an espada level arrancar with a punch.

he also readily tried to deck aizen. and given he was stronger than aizen, we have no reason to think it wouldnt work.

soifon is physically incapable of damaging aizen.

[Socratov]

i have to agree, size doesn't matter in this setting (even lampshaded by Isshin in his fight against grande fisher), what seems to matter more is the ability to be the main protagonist or have a freakishly high intellect and a useful zanpakuto power...

Kenpachi is freakishly powerful on 'physical' subjects, but when it comes to actually problem solving, he has to give way for the other captains. As for Mayuri, even when you have made him expend a 1000 tricks up his sleeve you know he has another 1000 left, and 100 after that etc. he modifies his own body to keep loading tricks up his sleeves (or behind his ears for that matter) and he still has his shikai and bankai (which would freak me out to be honest). Since indeed tech and kido are nto seperated in SS he must be an awesome master at kido indeed (as was said) just not in the usual ways.

Also, to drive the point home, the two recurring lessons in Bleach are 1) don't judge a book by it's cover and 2) It's better to be smart then strong (Aizen was the teacher for this one, wow, plots, in plots in plots, plotception everywhere!).

[Anteros]

Very rarely do we have a character who looks wimpy, but ends up being super strong with no explanation given. Generally the characters that look wimpy but aren't are because of some other reason. Insane spiritual force or something else. Ichigo doesn't beat Kenpachi because he's physically stronger, but because he borrows the spirit energy from his sword. This isn't a measurement of that though, because it purely specifies physical strength...and besides, we know for a fact Yama's spiritual pressure is higher than hers anyway. It can't even be a poorly translated measurement of overall physical ability, because we have other categories for things like mobility.

Which means that it's saying Soi Fon can bench press more than Yama. Not buying it. At least not until there's some form of proof it it in the actual manga. That book is unreliable. At best.

[MammonAzrael]

Wouldn't that make Yoruichi stronger than the Old Man as well? Part of the dissonance, for me at least, is seeing what Soi Fon and Yoruichi are capable of, then watching Yama deal with Wonderweiss.

[Drolyt]

That book is unreliable. At best.

I would say that the manga overrules anything in there, but I'm not sure I would call them unreliable. They are official databooks. Does anyone know if Kubo wrote them?

[Anteros]

I would say that the manga overrules anything in there, but I'm not sure I would call them unreliable. They are official databooks. Does anyone know if Kubo wrote them?

I dunno. I spent about 30 seconds googling it, but the answer was unclear. Didn't want to waste any more time on it.

Regardless (and this is just my personal opinion.) I'm a big fan of "what we see is what happens. The end." What I mean by this is that I only consider something canon if it's actually supported at some point during the story that the fans see, even if "word of god" contradicts me.

[Psyren]

Why not? He's an old man, and she's the captain most focused on hand to hand combat.

Her attacks may have more finesse, but more physical strength? Than Yamamoto? What possible evidence could there be for an assertion like that?

And keep in mind that the Arrancar he beat up with his bare hands mauled yet another hand-to-hand specialist (Mashiro.)

They are official databooks.

"Official" gets an asterisk when Kubo is involved.

[Drolyt]

Her attacks may have more finesse, but more physical strength? Than Yamamoto? What possible evidence could there be for an assertion like that?

The databooks.

[Starwulf]

I dont recall a singel time where it has been used as anything but a passive buff to his offensive and defensive power, can you give an actual reference to this?

In the anime, Kenpachi actually just used it to blow EVERYONE except byakuya away from him, so he could "Finally get his duel to the death" with Byakuya. It's the Zanpaktu arc, where the zanpaktu all rebel because of muramasa

[Psyren]

The databooks.

Right, hence their unreliability.

[Socratov]

Very rarely do we have a character who looks wimpy, but ends up being super strong with no explanation given. Generally the characters that look wimpy but aren't are because of some other reason. Insane spiritual force or something else. Ichigo doesn't beat Kenpachi because he's physically stronger, but because he borrows the spirit energy from his sword. This isn't a measurement of that though, because it purely specifies physical strength...and besides, we know for a fact Yama's spiritual pressure is higher than hers anyway. It can't even be a poorly translated measurement of overall physical ability, because we have other categories for things like mobility.

Which means that it's saying Soi Fon can bench press more than Yama. Not buying it. At least not until there's some form of proof it it in the actual manga. That book is unreliable. At best.

he doesn't borrow the energy from his sword, he just has it. He is so filled to the brim with reiatsu that he constantly leaks reiatsu (often enabeling villains to find him, actually 1 thing Kubo did explain correctly without forgetting). it is also the reason why he can't use kido, since his reiatsu leaks because he can't control the flow of his reiatsu. Reiatsu has not much to do with physical health (althoug it may be influenced by...). So different people have different measures of reiatsu indicating how strong they are. Ukitake has it easy since his shikai is geared towards absorbing and returning reiatsu to sender in the form of kido blasts.

Wouldn't that make Yoruichi stronger than the Old Man as well? Part of the dissonance, for me at least, is seeing what Soi Fon and Yoruichi are capable of, then watching Yama deal with Wonderweiss.

Still, that is a technique. They hone their reiatsu to a form of burst enabeling them to be better at shunpo, so good even they burn/destroy enything touching their arms up until the shoulders, drastically raising their power in hand-to-hand combat (considered by some to be raw power). And don't forget Wodnerweiss was specifically geared towards countering Yama-yi, so this comparison actually wrong.

Of course the best statement would be that each variable would in some way or other add to or substract from another variable. For instance, mobility aides immensely in defending and attacking, as would intellect, reiatsu, kido skills, type of zanpakuto power/specialization, etc. However, too much focus on defense would hamper your offense and vice versa.

TL;DR

when statistics are present you can explain them any way you want.

[Drolyt]

TL;DR

when statistics are present you can explain them any way you want.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Mato]

Ever stop and consider the scale is capped? The scale doesn't go to 1,000 so everyone just plain hits the max value of it, appearing as if they are even.

Hence
Soi Fong: bankai is a nuke, 10 out of the possible 10.
Yamamoto Genryuusai: shiki is a nuke, maximum of the possible values (10).

[Anteros]

he doesn't borrow the energy from his sword, he just has it.

Ichigo himself directly contradicts this during his fight with Kenpachi. It was kinda the whole point of his whole "I'll never lose to someone like you who doesn't even listen to his sword!" speech.

[lord_khaine]

would you argue someone who could swing their sword hard and fast plus shoot lightning doesn't have a better offense than someone who can only swing the sword
(assuming their sword skills are the same, obv)

Yes, all that would be required were for the sword to be faster and posses more stopping power than the lightning.

[Socratov]

Ichigo himself directly contradicts this during his fight with Kenpachi. It was kinda the whole point of his whole "I'll never lose to someone like you who doesn't even listen to his sword!" speech.

aha! but it's not the energy he gets from the sword, the sword just enables Ichigo to use his energy. Much like how an engine enables a car to use the power stored in the gasoline to move forward, the engine generates a certain effect by consuming gasoline. To do that the user of a zanpakuto needs to listen to his sword, know it's name, know the name of it's attack etc. But the reiatsu stays with the user. This is also highlighted by the fact that in teh muramasa arc the shinigami could still freely use kido when they had trouble using their swords.

[thubby]

zangetsu even chastises ichigo as the series goes on and keeps telling him he is ichigo's power.

[Anteros]

aha! but it's not the energy he gets from the sword, the sword just enables Ichigo to use his energy. Much like how an engine enables a car to use the power stored in the gasoline to move forward, the engine generates a certain effect by consuming gasoline. To do that the user of a zanpakuto needs to listen to his sword, know it's name, know the name of it's attack etc. But the reiatsu stays with the user. This is also highlighted by the fact that in teh muramasa arc the shinigami could still freely use kido when they had trouble using their swords.

He specifically says the words "I'm borrowing power from my sword" when Kenpachi asks him how his energy keeps going up. It does seem to have been ret-conned since then though.

[thubby]

He specifically says the words "I'm borrowing power from my sword" when Kenpachi asks him how his energy keeps going up. It does seem to have been ret-conned since then though.

considering that zangetsu made his point as part of bankai training, i hardly consider it retcon.

[Socratov]

ok, this seems to become a debate on the consistency of the Bleach universe...

...we all know where this is going, because both statements have their examples and are by extension, true. Damn you Tite Kubo!

[DiscipleofBob]

ok, this seems to become a debate on the consistency of the Bleach universe...

...we all know where this is going, because both statements have their examples and are by extension, true. Damn you Tite Kubo!

They say in the Bleach universe, every year, on the anniversary of some unknown event, all the bravest scientists, physicists, mathematicians, etcetera, from the mortal world, Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, and other realms as well, gather at a previously unspecified location to "discuss" the laws of the universe. No one knows what events transpire at these "conventions" only that approximately 100 scientists enter it, but only one comes back alive. They say that one year a perfectly respectable gentleman (if a little naive) joined the convention. He was the sole survivor, but he became physically and psychologically scarred to the point where this day he's known as Kurotsuchi. He has not dared to venture back to the "convention" since, and anyone who's questioned him about the events that transpired gets shouted out of his laboratory before "disappearing under mysterious circumstances" the following week.

[lord_khaine]

Heh, i just found a quite amusing easter egg in "Sealed Sword Frenzy" OVA.

Around 13 min's in, Ichigo is adressing Toushiou with "What was it now your name was, eeeddwwa.." Before being interuptet

I am of course assuming everyone knows what other role Toushiou's voice actor is known for doing

[jindra34]

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Yea gods the two annoying Arrancar girls are back. And few people have seemed to notice how often Ichigo ends up working with people who were his enemies. At least Harribel's Fraccion are trying to do a good job of helping their kin.

[darksolitaire]

Those quincy uniforms seen to remind me of something, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[DiscipleofBob]

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Kubo: "See? Look! Minor characters from last arc! I don't forget about minor characters at all! Aren't I such a clever storyteller? ... What the hell is a Tatsuki?"

[HandofShadows]

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Kubo: "See? Look! Minor characters from last arc! I don't forget about minor characters at all! Aren't I such a clever storyteller? ... What the hell is a Tatsuki?"

He plans farther ahead then may people give him credit for.

[Drolyt]

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Kubo: "See? Look! Minor characters from last arc! I don't forget about minor characters at all! Aren't I such a clever storyteller? ... What the hell is a Tatsuki?"

Good question. Is that like Tonkatsu?

As for the chapter... meh. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't amazing either. Be better without all the annoying side characters.

[Tavar]

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Uhhh...weren't those last 3 characters killed by the Captain Commander? Or is this another of those "nobody dies in Bleach" things?

[darksolitaire]

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Uhhh...weren't those last 3 characters killed by the Captain Commander? Or is this another of those "nobody dies in Bleach" things?

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Yamamoto himself comments that they managed to escape...

[maximus25]

Ichigo has not been pushed to nearly the point of using his hollow powers yet (He always seemed to favor his Soul Reaper Powers). I think they are still there and will show themselves when needed. Probably in a spectacular way (Hey, it's Bleach!).

Now here is question. A Soul Reaper can gain Hollow Powers. A Hollow can gain Soul Reaper Powers. It seems a Quincy can gain Hollow powers. Does than mean a Soul Reaper can gain Quincy powers and visa versa?

Probably. Quincy powers are basically drawing reishi from around you into a bow and arrow.

Ichigo could do it, but instead of firing arrows he just fires Getsugas, or his sword.