Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[LaZodiac]

Taking things off topic here, I had a question for you all: The anime(on Adult Swim) recently got done the fight with Ichigo and Ulquiorra, and I was wondering: Is Ulquirra actually a higher rank then 4, it's just that no-one realized it? Because of his "second release" that no other espada has and all that jazz? Just curious and all.

Just curious, but do you know the big twist about the rankings? Because if you do...hehehe. HahahaHAhahahaahAHAHAHAaaaa...yha

Them not knowing Ulquirra is actually stronger then 4th is the least of your concerns. For those of you don't know or forget, I'm refering to

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"The Zeroth Espada"

[Maugan Ra]

Zodiac - I still refuse to acknowledge that part as existing. Or at least, being that powerful. Because Ulquiorra could absolutely still beat him into the ground. As could, say, Stark. If either of them cared enough to do so, anyway.

That said, it did introduce the frankly brilliant scene of Kenpachi and Byakuya fighting side by side and getting progressively more bitchy towards each other, which was hilarious enough that I'm willing to overlook quite a bit of nonsense.

[LaZodiac]

Zodiac - I still refuse to acknowledge that part as existing. Or at least, being that powerful. Because Ulquiorra could absolutely still beat him into the ground. As could, say, Stark. If either of them cared enough to do so, anyway.

That said, it did introduce the frankly brilliant scene of Kenpachi and Byakuya fighting side by side and getting progressively more bitchy towards each other, which was hilarious enough that I'm willing to overlook quite a bit of nonsense.

It's scenes like that, and the entire "fight" between Renji and Byakuya VS As Nodt that makes me really feel the worst about Bleach, because Kubo clearly, CLEARLY has SOME talent, because Byakuya and Renji's reactions to each other in that scene was great. And As Nodt just going "Oh, wait, you're curious about what my power is? Oh, sorry, sorry, here, here's how it works!" is also pretty damn hilarious. And then he actually pulls his power off on Byakuya and we get a legitimately terrifying moment.

[Ramza00]

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So if you were to rank the "real" place for the zeroth espada where do you believe he should go?

[VanBuren]

Zodiac - I still refuse to acknowledge that part as existing. Or at least, being that powerful. Because Ulquiorra could absolutely still beat him into the ground. As could, say, Stark. If either of them cared enough to do so, anyway.

That said, it did introduce the frankly brilliant scene of Kenpachi and Byakuya fighting side by side and getting progressively more bitchy towards each other, which was hilarious enough that I'm willing to overlook quite a bit of nonsense.

The ranking was based on raw values of reiatsu rather than a comprehensive combat ranking. Yammy was only 0 because he had the most reiatsu when he stuffed himself and powered up.

[Starwulf]

Just curious, but do you know the big twist about the rankings? Because if you do...hehehe. HahahaHAhahahaahAHAHAHAaaaa...yha

Them not knowing Ulquirra is actually stronger then 4th is the least of your concerns. For those of you don't know or forget, I'm refering to

Spoiler

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"The Zeroth Espada"

Yeah, I actually knew about the asspull with Yammy long before I knew about Ulquiorra's second release form(an issue with spoilers on another forum). Just thought the whole thing with Ulqie was interesting, and wondering where people would place him with his second form release state. I'd say he'd probably supplant Harribel, but I doubt he'd be any stronger then that.

[thubby]

The ranking was based on raw values of reiatsu rather than a comprehensive combat ranking. Yammy was only 0 because he had the most reiatsu when he stuffed himself and powered up.

except raw power is an innate defense, and yammi's sucks.

[VanBuren]

except raw power is an innate defense, and yammi's sucks.

Only if you have the ability to do anything with it. Yammy has a great deal of it, but he's just too inept to use it effectively.

[thubby]

Only if you have the ability to do anything with it. Yammy has a great deal of it, but he's just too inept to use it effectively.

kenpachi would like a word with you.

we've seen multiple times now that having more rietsu makes you harder to damage, and can even recoil on an attacker if you're that much stronger.

[jindra34]

kenpachi would like a word with you.

we've seen multiple times now that having more rietsu makes you harder to damage, and can even recoil on an attacker if you're that much stronger.

Except in comparison to Yammy, Kenpachi actually starts to look skilled. Its like the difference between Ichigo when he first fought Renji and the second time, he really didn't gain power he gained knowledge of how to use that power.

[Socratov]

Except in comparison to Yammy, Kenpachi actually starts to look skilled. Its like the difference between Ichigo when he first fought Renji and the second time, he really didn't gain power he gained knowledge of how to use that power.

yeah, well, that's jsut one of the very few things Kubo actually wrote quite well...

[LaZodiac]

Gonna be perfectly honest, Kenpachi's "ultimate form" as shown againest that hercules beetle esque dude, was hilarious.

[VanBuren]

Gonna be perfectly honest, Kenpachi's "ultimate form" as shown againest that hercules beetle esque dude, was hilarious.

Only Kenpachi would consider "swinging with two hands" to be a secret technique.

[LaZodiac]

Only Kenpachi would consider "swinging with two hands" to be a secret technique.

To be perfectly fair, at the very VERY core of it, his intent is correct. Swinging a sword PROPERLY will make it stronger then if you wield it improperly.

This does not make it any less hilariously stupid.

[Tenno Seremel]

You just wait, one day Kubo will reveal that Kenpachi is the WAAAAAGH! incarnate and his "sword with 2 hands" is totally justified and works because he said so.

[jindra34]

You just wait, one day Kubo will reveal that Kenpachi is the WAAAAAGH! incarnate and his "sword with 2 hands" is totally justified and works because he said so.

Or maybe his Zanpaktou increases his abilities based on how refined his fighting technique is.

[Frozen_Feet]

That would be hilariously ironic.

Also, the more I think of it, the more I hate Kubo for the twin asspull. I was liking this arc, dammit. I was the first chapter in Bleach I legitimately despise.

[LaZodiac]

Or maybe his Zanpaktou increases his abilities based on how refined his fighting technique is.

I still want his zanpakto to be that little pink haired girl. Like, he's so powerful his zanpakto has a humanoid form even while a sword.

That would be hilariously ironic.

Also, the more I think of it, the more I hate Kubo for the twin asspull. I was liking this arc, dammit. I was the first chapter in Bleach I legitimately despise.

There is a reason I called this the worst chapter of Bleach, of all time.

[VanBuren]

To be perfectly fair, at the very VERY core of it, his intent is correct. Swinging a sword PROPERLY will make it stronger then if you wield it improperly.

This does not make it any less hilariously stupid.

I actually kind of love it, to be perfectly honest. It's just so perfectly in character for him.

[Tebryn]

Gonna be perfectly honest, Kenpachi's "ultimate form" as shown againest that hercules beetle esque dude, was hilarious.

It was honestly one of the best fights in the series. It felt good to know that no matter how crazy Kenpachi was, he still had some trouble with Nnorita. And it was a Praying Mantis he was supposed to be based on. Really, any of the core battles with Kenpachi in the manga were all really great.

It's a constant disappointing starting from the early Arrancar arc that the best fights didn't center around the main cast of people. Soul Society had some good fights with the actual main cast, but as soon as the Captains got introduced it became more and more apparent that Kubo was more interested in showing off their powers.

And that could have been awesome had Chad not been worfed even as early as the end of the Soul Society Arc, Ishida lanquishing with his whimpy bow, Orohime being a generally useless character and Ichigo growing more and more wangtsy because Friendship or what ever.

[thubby]

well 2 handed does give him an extra .5x strength to damage. given his ability to use stone structures as projectiles, that could easily be an extra 30 damage

[Morph Bark]

well 2 handed does give him an extra .5x strength to damage. given his ability to use stone structures as projectiles, that could easily be an extra 30 damage

Plus he could use Power Attack. Clearly he shunpo'd back and forth just before the hit, effectively charging and activating nearly all his feats.

[HandofShadows]

Now I get it. Yamamoto getting clubbed sets the stage for development which explains are questions which have thus far remained unanswered! Spirit King and Squad 0 will both appear! We will learn all about Kurosaki Isshin and Ishida ryuuken! What is the history of Quincy? All will be revealed. Right?!

Hmm. I wonder though. Did the Old Man get taken down though? There is an old rule in stories, if you don't see the body they arn't dead. And even when you DO see the body they may not be dead. A number of different characters have pulled off illusions useing thier powers before. Hitsugaya did it with ice for instance. I am not saying that it happened, but it's best to keep an open mind.

[LaZodiac]

Hmm. I wonder though. Did the Old Man get taken down though? There is an old rule in stories, if you don't see the body they arn't dead. And even when you DO see the body they may not be dead. A number of different characters have pulled off illusions useing thier powers before. Hitsugaya did it with ice for instance. I am not saying that it happened, but it's best to keep an open mind.

I'm fairly sure he's dead. He blew his load and the villian needs to look powerful. It's like how Byakuya got killed by As Nodt to show how powerful the Sternritter's are. So they could all get punked by Genryusai for no reason.

[Veridis Quo]

You just wait, one day Kubo will reveal that Kenpachi is the WAAAAAGH! incarnate and his "sword with 2 hands" is totally justified and works because he said so.

Wait, so is Kenpachi's right hand Gork and his left hand Mork? Or is it the other way around?

[Ramza00]

Plus he could use Power Attack. Clearly he shunpo'd back and forth just before the hit, effectively charging and activating nearly all his feats.

Nope he did power attack for maximum damage but he didn't move prior to his final attack. I personally think prior to his final attack he made this attack a touch attack via wraithstrike.

In the round prior to his final attack he was using combat rhythm to score all kinds of touch attacks against Nnoitra. These attacks did no damage but it allowed him to gain an additional +5 damage rolls for his next round attack against Nnoitra. On his final attack he activated Diamond Nightmare Blade which made his single attack do quadruple damage. Quadruple Damage on his power attack, strength bonus, as well as his combat rthymn damage made his final strike an instant kill.

[INoKnowNames]

With all the talk of Kenpachi and his uber powerness inmerely 2 handing a 1 handed sword, I now want to make a D&D character that's litterally the strongest ****er in existance, strong enough to compete with every living thing in terms of damage and abilities, with just 1 hand on his blade. And then he power attacks for -ALL- the multipliers with two hands and everyone realises how screwed they are. It would be awesome...

Old ground about the worst villain -ever-.

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Didn't he "beat" him by showing the Hogyoku that Aizen wasn't the strongest/didn't think of everything/whatever hax, that made it think "hm, yeah, you're not worthy of my fabulosity" or something and made it reject Aizen?

Before the Kido activated and sealed his ass away once and for all, Aizen claimed he was getting stronger, and that he didn't even need his Zanpacto anymore. Whether or not it was Ichigo weakening him or the Kido activating that made the Hogkyoku start rejecting Aizen is to be seen, but it's inconclusive, at least from another look.

Hm... actually, I'd like to ask you guys: What do you think the -worst- thing, be it a character, plot element, or even meta element, is in Bleach?

To me, it's that Kubo doesn't want to really value anyone or anything. Rather thn developing the characters he already has and making them more fleshed out and interesting, or even respecting theirs and our dignity, he instead makes new characters that are also just as flat. He substotutes new stuff for decent writing. It's like he's trying to appeal to adhd. "Look at all of these things!" rather than "look at these good things!". And it just rubs me the wrong way.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

With all the talk of Kenpachi and his uber powerness inmerely 2 handing a 1 handed sword, I now want to make a D&D character that's litterally the strongest ****er in existance, strong enough to compete with every living thing in terms of damage and abilities, with just 1 hand on his blade. And then he power attacks for -ALL- the multipliers with two hands and everyone realises how screwed they are. It would be awesome...

Old ground about the worst villain -ever-.

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Before the Kido activated and sealed his ass away once and for all, Aizen claimed he was getting stronger, and that he didn't even need his Zanpacto anymore. Whether or not it was Ichigo weakening him or the Kido activating that made the Hogkyoku start rejecting Aizen is to be seen, but it's inconclusive, at least from another look.

Hm... actually, I'd like to ask you guys: What do you think the -worst- thing, be it a character, plot element, or even meta element, is in Bleach?

To me, it's that Kubo doesn't want to really value anyone or anything. Rather thn developing the characters he already has and making them more fleshed out and interesting, or even respecting theirs and our dignity, he instead makes new characters that are also just as flat. He substotutes new stuff for decent writing. It's like he's trying to appeal to adhd. "Look at all of these things!" rather than "look at these good things!". And it just rubs me the wrong way.

As a firm hater of Kubo's writing, I offer you a flip-side question:

What if Kubo IS afflicted with severe ADHD and that is why he keeps pulling out new shinies rather than refining the ones he already has on display? What if, were he not fighting against a never-ending drive to explore the new, he actually would be able to take a sub-plot across multiple story lines and NOT distort it into a mockery of their original potential?

[Dante & Vergil]

Personally, I absolutely love Bleach, and I do know it has flaws, and have even been able to call on things that people will rage at as I'm reading new chapters, but then again, that's not that hard.
Though after all of this, the one thing I hate is that there is potential for so much more with the story, but it doesn't executed in satisfying ways.

As a firm hater of Kubo's writing, I offer you a flip-side question:

What if Kubo IS afflicted with severe ADHD and that is why he keeps pulling out new shinies rather than refining the ones he already has on display? What if, were he not fighting against a never-ending drive to explore the new, he actually would be able to take a sub-plot across multiple story lines and NOT distort it into a mockery of their original potential?

That could be the reason behind all this.

[INoKnowNames]

As a firm hater of Kubo's writing, I offer you a flip-side question:

What if Kubo IS afflicted with severe ADHD and that is why he keeps pulling out new shinies rather than refining the ones he already has on display? What if, were he not fighting against a never-ending drive to explore the new, he actually would be able to take a sub-plot across multiple story lines and NOT distort it into a mockery of their original potential?

Hm... There are at least 5 different subplots that, with decent writing poured into them, would definitely be book worth. I'd be willing to pay money on them, easy.

Remember when it first came out, and everyone thought it would be like Yu-Yu-Hakusho, really playing up the "seeing the dead" and solving mysteries of lost souls angle? Figuring out what spirit is supposed to go where in the afterlife, and helping the living and dead make peace with each other?

I'd smoke that crack pipe every -day-. I still like reading Yu Yu and Case Closed, and I wonder what could have been...