OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread

[rbetieh]

Wow, been gone for a couple of weeks and look what happens. Somehow, I thought Tahn would have been captured for old times sake, especially since he actually has information on Hinjo and the remaining Azure City Paladins. Or at least thats what I thought last strip. Redcloak is certainly becoming less emotional as time goes on, it's almost as if the cause he serves is starting to take over him. Maybe its the absence of the anarchic Xykon?

[PBlades]

I'm going to assume he's at negative HP and is simply dying, and died when the earthquake smushed him into paste, at which point, like with a disintegrate spell, the crushed remains of a goblin are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling, or a dwarf.

Nuh-uh. His eyes gone all X-es;he's dead,Jim.

Great strip! Loving the rapid updates.

[RMS Oceanic]

Even if Redcloak does pull the old switcharoo on the phylactery, is Xykon able to, well, for lack of a better word, sense that part of him is still in it?

Or do all the spells on it prevent that?

Or does it work like a Horcrux in that it's completely seperate from him now and he can't sense a thing?

That hasn't been spelled out either way, but I suspect its abjurations means Xykon won't know it's gone until either he sees it destroyed or attempts to regenerate and discovers something is off. Mainly because unlike a horcrux, a part of him is not in it. He resides in it only while regenerating, and it is otherwise a fancy trinket. If he could sense it like that, he may not have needed half of Gobbotopia looking for it and could have retrieved it himself.

It just occurred to me that if Xykon succeeds and gains the power of the remaining Gates, that he can probably re-write reality however he wishes, thus replacing Redcloak's god (and all gods in general). It makes me wonder why Redcloak has ever followed Xykon at all.

If it was out of fear, then why not destroy the phylactery years ago when Roy destroyed Xykon's first skeletal body? If it was because he wanted to eventually concur Azure City and set up goblintopia and stay there, then why question O-Chul so vigorously about the locations of the other gates?

It'll be quite interesting to see what happens next.

Xykon is still planning to use the ritual as Redcloak told him, because (Start of Darkness)

Spoiler

Show

He believes the ritual will let him directly control the Snarl, and use it as a Death Star type weapon. Redcloak lied to him: The ritual controls the gate rather than the Snarl, and gives that control directly to the Dark One rather than either of them. It will be interesting if Tsukiko's reverse engineering uncovers this...

[Castamir]

I'm going to assume he's at negative HP and is simply dying, and died when the earthquake smushed him into paste, at which point, like with a disintegrate spell, the crushed remains of a goblin are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling, or a dwarf.

It's well established that negative HP and mere severe wounds are represented by eyes having a long line; and Xes for eyes are a sure mark of death. This is also what you use to disguise as a corpse.

In other words, he's dead, Jim, as a doornail.

[HUMVEE Driver]

There's a few discrepencies that are very un-giant-like...

1. Isn't Niu dead? Isn't this her:

2. Shouldn't the dead 'hobgoblin' revert back to his true form after he died?

3. Doesn't Redcloak have to say the spell name when he kills eypatch girl?

Anyone?

[RMS Oceanic]

Spoiler

Show

Taking this into consideration his next step could be to get rid off Tsukiko. It would go with his evil character as well. In a few days the plot arc will probably go to a completely different direction anyways, but I'm really curious what Red Cloaks plan will turn out to be.

Spoiler

Show

That would be risky. For one thing Tsukiko is probably able to defend herself pretty well and at the very least may be able to escape from him. Another is how he would explain Tsukiko's death to Xykon? I'm sure Xykon won't care beyond losing access to what has been a useful resource, but if it turns out Redcloak is what cost him that resource, he won't be pleased.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens the next time all of Team Evil is together...

[Silverblaze]

Most of the points have already been made, but I still need to tip my proverbial hat at RC for his "endangered species" remark - Excellent evilness :-D

Beyond that - Mr. T - You were just as bad as your namesake - in the best possible good way - You knew how to pull off a grand exit - RIP to a noble soul

[Raistlin82]

"Contact Lord Hinjo and tell him..." what?

Too bad the pink-haired elf died. I was hoping at least 1 member of the Resistance and 1 member of Team Peregrine would survive.

Anyway... R.I.P. Resistance, R.I.P. Team Peregrine. You fought bravely.

PS: oh and the final panel is EPIC.

There's a few discrepencies that are very un-giant-like...

No, there aren't.

1. Isn't Niu dead? Isn't this her:

No. It's not. Not only she looks different, she's also one of the generic Resistance soldiers that were already dead in strip #825.

2. Shouldn't the dead 'hobgoblin' revert back to his true form after he died?

Assuming that it actually is required...
Maybe he will shortly... after the mountain collapses on him.
Doesn't really matter. He was a goblin (most likely a hobgoblin) and he was a polymorphed infiltrator. By his own (and Redcloak's) admission.
This community fixation with meaningless details never ceases to amuse me.

3. Doesn't Redcloak have to say the spell name when he kills eypatch girl?

Anyone?

There are several spells that don't require a verbal component, and there are feats that allow you to avoid using it for all others.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[RMS Oceanic]

The reason Redcloak didn't have to say Implosion twice is because Implosion lasts for up to four rounds. Redcloak squelched at least two resistance members with a single spell across two rounds.

[pendell]

Maybe he will shortly... after the mountain collapses on him.
This community fixation with meaningless details never ceases to amuse me.

The Giant puts a lot of effort into getting the little details right so I think it's only proper that those of us in the audience who are so inclined should seek out those details and give them proper appreciation.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[AniThyng]

There's a few discrepencies that are very un-giant-like...

1. Isn't Niu dead? Isn't this her:

2. Shouldn't the dead 'hobgoblin' revert back to his true form after he died?

3. Doesn't Redcloak have to say the spell name when he kills eypatch girl?

Anyone?

Niu's hair is a lot longer than the generic female Azurite soldier in your screenshot.

But perhaps that is actually Kazumi Kato

[luc258]

Spoiler

Show

That would be risky. For one thing Tsukiko is probably able to defend herself pretty well and at the very least may be able to escape from him. Another is how he would explain Tsukiko's death to Xykon? I'm sure Xykon won't care beyond losing access to what has been a useful resource, but if it turns out Redcloak is what cost him that resource, he won't be pleased.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens the next time all of Team Evil is together...

Spoiler

Show

Well, Xykon is out of town. There won't be a better time to move against Tsukiko than now. I don't have a doubt that Red Cloak could utterly crush her even on his own. She's probably around OOTS level, he is a few levels higher. In addition he would have the surprise and the ressources of the goblin empire on his side.

He got enough motive too:
Her research makes him replacable
Her research endangers his very life because if Xykon ever learns what the ritual really does he will attack him

The question would be if he can stage something convincing enough to fool Xykon when he returns.

[cheesymetal]

im glad to see redcloak stepping up as a great leader. on the other hand, i feel sorry for the azure nation. no hope.

[RMS Oceanic]

Spoiler

Show

Well, Xykon is out of town. There won't be a better time to move against Tsukiko than now. I don't have a doubt that Red Cloak could utterly crush her even on his own. She's probably around OOTS level, he is a few levels higher. In addition he would have the surprise and the ressources of the goblin empire on his side.

He got enough motive too:
Her research makes him replacable
Her research endangers his very life because if Xykon ever learns what the ritual really does he will attack him

The question would be if he can stage something convincing enough to fool Xykon when he returns.

Spoiler

Show

And also, whether he knows Tsukiko has been doing this. We haven't seen her working on this in front of him or within earshot.

[Conuly]

"Stupid risks are stupid."

Is this character development? For Redcloak? Could he possibly, ever use this little insight to reconsider that whole idiotic plan? I want a happy ending for him (yeah, I'm soft that way), but only if he realizes how stupid the plan is. I mean, really, there has GOT to be a better, safer way of insuring goblin equality.

[Omergideon]

Well now, once more we have an interesting development in the plot and a lot of action in this strip. Despite the death of the Resistance this strip is really the story of Redcloak and his new machinations and plans. There is certainly a fair amount to comment on regarding this, so here we go.

The Good:
1) I want to get this out the way as it is a big rave. Redcloak has made, in 3 strips, massive strides in character development and character. He is far more focused and brutal, and this side of his character is welcome to see. He has been mean and petty before but this level of focus and deception (including killing a loyal minion) is new. The level of power that he has displayed as well has been incredible. We knew he was tough, but the way he has wrecked everything almost solo is phenomenal. I cannot priase this new arc enough.

I do not know when Redcloak became a more important antagonist to me (storywise, not power level wise) than Xykon but he seems to have done so. The plot here (seemingly decieving Xykon about the resistance and his phylactory) is deep, complex and hints at so many possiblities that I am on the dge of my seat waiting. The character development AND story of Reddy here is the biggest positive about the comic.
2) Thanth/Niu as well are an excellent double act. Thanth was always a small character, as was niu. But to get such a moving death scene is cool to see. I do sometimes wonder if the obvious heroism some of our Paladin friends (Thanth, O'Chul) show is to balance out the hate the Sapphire guard gets in these forums. True or not this is a good way to die and shows in a few moments a lot about this brave and sensible paladin. In addition Niu escaping gives us a lot of places to go. As many can say, the plot thickens. Perhaps soon we'll need a flow chart.
3) The art is always good and the sight of the mountain falling, Niu's expressions in the last panel, and so on are very good. Not so much pretty, but wonderfully expressive imagery shown here. Very nice indeed.
4) Not too many jokes in this one of course (it is an action/plot strip) but the one about Ipads was to me very funny. It could be in part due to the scarcity of jokes recently but it was very funny.

The Bad:
1) There is only one thing I can say about this strip in the negative. For all the good images and expressions the action is a little staid an simple in this one. Not that it is bad, but it is not up to the normal high standard we sometimes see. This means that whilst the plot development and character moments are awesome the strip itself is not quite as fun to read on it's own. A minor fault in the big scheme, but for the one strip it is noticable.

So in short this is a good strip. It has a strong end, massive plot developments and even more. Not one of the true greats but the plot development and character moments were extremely powerful. The only down side is that it is not "fun" to read on it's own. As a strip alone it earns *** 1/2. But in sequence, the minor plot alone (prevous 5 strips) earn a **** for the plot line. Essential and fast paced, with humour a plenty in the first strips.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Niu's hair is a lot longer than the generic female Azurite soldier in your screenshot.

You're right. I noticed that, but I thought it could be because she was laying back.

Redcloak wasn't using Implosion in panel #7; Implosion doesn't cover the target in a brown aura, like we see in 826.

The Giant puts a lot of effort into getting the little details right so I think it's only proper that those of us in the audience who are so inclined should seek out those details and give them proper appreciation.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Damn right.

Here's some truth about storytelling: details are ALWAYS important.

[Arrowstorm122]

Whats up with people marking pure speculation as spoiler?

I'm also veeery excited for what Redcloaks plan is.

[Burner28]

Nuh-uh. His eyes gone all X-es;he's dead,Jim.

Great strip! Loving the rapid updates.

Yep, he's gone. Just like that.

[luc258]

Spoiler

Show

And also, whether he knows Tsukiko has been doing this. We haven't seen her working on this in front of him or within earshot.

Spoiler

Show

I would call it a fair assumption that Red Cloak uses his goblins to spy on his "allies" without it being explicitly shown in a comic strip. Tsukiko has not been keeping her research a secret either, even MITD knows about it after all.

[RMS Oceanic]

Whats up with people marking pure speculation as spoiler?

It's a courtesy to the Giant. He doesn't like reading our speculation, because if one of us predicts correctly, or perhaps the opposit, he may feel tempted to change something. We try to avoid that.

[RMS Oceanic]

Spoiler

Show

I would call it a fair assumption that Red Cloak uses his goblins to spy on his "allies" without it being explicitly shown in a comic strip. Tsukiko has not been keeping her research a secret either, even MITD knows about it after all.

Spoiler

Show

I personally agree with you. If Redcloak is willing to deceive Xykon he'd be just as willing to spy on Tsukiko. However until we see him state this, we can't rule out that she has done all this under his nose. It's why I'm looking forward to the Team Evil reunion to see where everyone stands with each other.

[Anarion]

Miko notwithstanding, every named member of the Sapphire Guard has shown themselves to be of the highest moral character.
SoD spoilers

Spoiler

Show

I can't believe these are the same people that went and butchered helpless goblin villages filled with women and children. I simply can't. What happened to their organization between the time of Soon and the present order of self-sacrificing paladins?

Ah Redcloak, acting on your own and taking risks you think aren't stupid.

Spoiler

Show

I think Redcloak is going to destroy the phylactery. Right now. My prediction will probably be proved wrong with the next strip, but I think it's the only thing that makes sense given his actions. If he destroys it, that's significant and it weakens Xykon considerably. If he wanted to hide it, he could have just buried it deep underground before he cast that earthquake spell.

[Dmatix]

Poor Mustachedin, you died well.

[sims796]

This wasn't all that bad. It softened the blow of the last comic, I'll tell you that much.

[Garwain]

I hope that the XP-link between hero and villain works also in favor of the hero, meaning that next time OOTS has gained a lvl as well.

[t209]

I hope Niuh

Spoiler

Show

Go to blue river and hire 500 nomadic warriors to avenge Thanh like Ysgrammor and Companions.

P.S- I thought they would break through the lines and fall back to other place.

[AniThyng]

Miko notwithstanding, every named member of the Sapphire Guard has shown themselves to be of the highest moral character.
SoD spoilers

Spoiler

Show

I can't believe these are the same people that went and butchered helpless goblin villages filled with women and children. I simply can't. What happened to their organization between the time of Soon and the present order of self-sacrificing paladins?

Spoiler

Show

I'd wager one factor is that the later generation of Paladins have the luxury of living in a time when Azure city has already secured her borders and completed the Goblin Crusades, and thus never faced that particular moral quandary. It's also worth noting that even then only *some* fell, not all. And certainly Kim himself did not fall.

[warmachine]

We know Redcloak's first holy symbol is Xykon's phylactory but if he thinks Xykon will demand it handed over, Redcloak can keep the real one in a safe place, meet Xykon wearing a fake and hand that over. There is no need to hide that the Resistance is destroyed and the phylactory recovered.

If Redcloak wishes to delay the departure from Gobbotopia, Xykon may lose patience and start blasting things.

The hobgoblins are going to notice the Resistance is destroyed when no raids happen and they're not going to miss the collapsing mountain.

Does Redcloak really wish to risk an impatient Xykon asking why the hobgoblin army, with no distracting Resistance, haven't found the phylactory yet? There's another reason.